musicman Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 We need a fine mix of closer residential spaces, more retail, and specifically a WAY better public transportation system to get things going in downtown.if the public transportation system needs to get better, why not try and improve the system we have currently? putting in one new line isn't going to make a difference to most, leaving most with the same impression (METRO is mediocre). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 if the public transportation system needs to get better, why not try and improve the system we have currently? putting in one new line isn't going to make a difference to most, leaving most with the same impression (METRO is mediocre).You're kidding, right?Yeah, how could connecting 4 major universities, one of the nation's most famous art collections, a major employment center, the area's largest church, several tranist dependent neighborhoods, and a transit center with Downtown, Midtown, Hermann Park, the Museum District, the med center, and Reliant Park create a better impression than tweaking some bus lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 (edited) ^^I honestly don't understand why people are so against rail. Who wouldn't want more lines in the inner city? From the way Houston is built, LRT should only be in the inner city, and areas Southwest around Sharpstown. Commuter rail should all come in from the suburbs. If we didn't have so many people against rail in Houston, we would have a system like Dallas.Houston w/o the tunnel system, dreamingDowntown would look packed. I wish the tunnels weren't there. Edited September 16, 2007 by Trae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 (edited) You're kidding, right?Yeah, how could connecting 4 major universities, one of the nation's most famous art collections, a major employment center, the area's largest church, several tranist dependent neighborhoods, and a transit center with Downtown, Midtown, Hermann Park, the Museum District, the med center, and Reliant Park create a better impression than tweaking some bus lines?WRT total congestion, its effect will be minimal. Edited September 16, 2007 by musicman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 (edited) After reading the posts here I question whether street-level retail can really be successful in a downtown like this. It seems that there needs to be a minimum density of stores over several blocks to draw shoppers. One Kinkos can't sustain it. Besides, downtown already has vibrant pedestrian shopping area underground, and that will always be difficult for any street-level retailer to compete with. This isn't to say that street-oriented pedestrian-friendly shopping districts can't succeed in Houston. Rice Village has been at it for decades, and Houston Pavillions looks great. For Main Street however I think it is too late for that. Subdude, Houston Pavilions is on Main Street. I think we can most definitely build a vibrant pedestrian district along there, provided we stop building parking garages. I've brought a lot of visitors here from other cities, and they were impressed. Look how far we've come on lower Main. Look how beautiful the new streetscaping is, how great some of our historic architecture is along there (if they could only uncover the original facade of the Carter skyscraper (on the right in the picture above)), how much potential there still is on the undeveloped lots. And if that doesn't convince you, look at how much we would lose by just giving up. This is Houston's most historic street. This is where every person who grew up here before 1970 spent Saturday afternoon. Where every parade went down. If you want this city to have a soul, some place where people of all walks can cross paths, some place where one can feel a connection to the past, a place that is distinctly Houston and not just anywhere, it has to happen here. This has potential! Edited September 16, 2007 by H-Town Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 (edited) WRT total congestion, its effect will be minimal.It's not only about reducing congestion. It's about slowing the increase in congestion in the future, and giving people more options to get around. Nobody is going to give up driving completely (not at this point), but being able to go a few places without your car is really liberating. It's also about giving Houston a better image. Trains just look better, sound better and smell better than twice as many busses on already congested streets.you want this city to have a soulI can't believe how many people have commented on that picture (and similar ones in the same part of town) and said they didn't know any part of Houston looked like that. Somebody even said that my photo makes Houston look like a "real city". Some people who live here have seriously only seen strip malls and big box stores and don't even know this part of town exists. A lot of people who comment on these downtown photos also say that they wish all of Houston looked like that. There is seriously demand out there for street level retail and a real urban environment. Every student I know who is visiting Houston from other countries and cities loves this part of downtown when I take them there, but they all say the same thing about wishing that there were more people around and more things to do besides bars and clubs.There is definitely a lot of potential. Edited September 16, 2007 by Jax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) It's not only about reducing congestion. It's about slowing the increase in congestion in the future, and giving people more options to get around. Nobody is going to give up driving completely (not at this point), but being able to go a few places without your car is really liberating. It's also about giving Houston a better image. Trains just look better, sound better and smell better than twice as many busses on already congested streets.500 million on image? i can sure think of better things 500 million will do.i still think an assumption has been made where a large number of people are moving to the line. that's just not happening. some are moving yes, but not enough to justify a 500 million expenditure. now if it was designed with less traffic interaction, i could see benefit Edited September 17, 2007 by musicman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I can't believe how many people have commented on that picture (and similar ones in the same part of town) and said they didn't know any part of Houston looked like that. Somebody even said that my photo makes Houston look like a "real city". Some people who live here have seriously only seen strip malls and big box stores and don't even know this part of town exists. A lot of people who comment on these downtown photos also say that they wish all of Houston looked like that. There is seriously demand out there for street level retail and a real urban environment. Every student I know who is visiting Houston from other countries and cities loves this part of downtown when I take them there, but they all say the same thing about wishing that there were more people around and more things to do besides bars and clubs.One thing that I think helped that picture was that you used telephoto to compress the distance and make the environment seem more vertical. It's a great picture though, as are most of your photos of Houston.As far as light rail, I think it's useless to try to explain its benefit to people who don't already get it. There is a certain age one reaches beyond which it is very difficult for them to understand anything beyond the world that they grew up in and the things that were important in it. Once a person has settled into the view that all he wants out of his city is as big a home as possible in as quiet a neighborhood as possible with as few interactions as possible with people who aren't like him, you will be hard pressed to get him to spend even one dollar of his precious money on a rail system, no matter how much it could benefit the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 500 million on image? i can sure think of better things 500 million will do.Why are things so black and white to you? It's not about ONLY image, but image is a factor. It's a combination of convenience, efficiency, image, congestion, etc. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Why are things so black and white to you? It's not about ONLY image, but image is a factor. It's a combination of convenience, efficiency, image, congestion, etc. etc. etc.a system providing efficient, convenient transportation is a good system whatever it may be. what model car do you drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) The problem is people can't seem to think about things in the long run. Yeah, one little light rail isn't going to change the world over night, but we have to start somewhere don't you think? Plus I never mentioned anything about a measly light rail. We need a better transportation system period, no matter what the best solution is.Opposition to such improvements astounds me and is very unsettling that my future and the children's future rely on people who have that kind of mentality. Wouldn't it have been fantastic as a teenager or young adult, to easily find your way to the downtown library, to the museums, parks, places to eat, places to hang out, and places to discover in your city? It's not rocket science. Look at the cities you can already do that in.I get it... when auto sales go down and oil drama... I get it... Edited September 17, 2007 by flyingman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 a system providing efficient, convenient transportation is a good system whatever it may be. what model car do you drive? Image combined with the federal subsidy is why light rail lines continue to be built. METRORail makes no sense otherwise. It is no more useful than buses at far greater cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Works better than busses for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 This has potential! Metro consistently demonstrates that it has no idea where it's going. That train has "Fannin South" on it, yet is clearly going North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyc_tex Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) Image combined with the federal subsidy is why light rail lines continue to be built. METRORail makes no sense otherwise. It is no more useful than buses at far greater cost. Most freeways are built exclusively with federal and state funds. I'm glad NYC or Chicago didn't have your perspective 100 years ago. The only problem with starting a mass train system in Houston is that it wasn't done 25 years ago. The demographic shift from the NE to the South and West is only going to continue along with continued increases of foreign migration into the area. City planning is exactly that, planning for the future, more so than the present. With another 4-5 million in Houston metro in the next 50-100 years, there are only so many freeways that can be built. Proactive and perseverance. Edited September 17, 2007 by nyc_tex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) Most freeways are built exclusively with federal and state funds. I'm glad NYC or Chicago didn't have your perspective 100 years ago.100 yrs ago cars weren't a real transportation option for most. Edited September 17, 2007 by musicman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transit Nut Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Metro consistently demonstrates that it has no idea where it's going. That train has "Fannin South" on it, yet is clearly going North.I believe that train is just about to go up the bridge to enter UH-Downtown station. Since it will not be picking up anymore passengers to go north, it has probably just switched its sign to reflect the direction it will be picking up passengers for--that is, south.By the way, I think this thread has gone off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Can we take this back to Main Place?Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The big cigarette lighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Can we take this back to Main Place?Thanks. sure man, those buildings are close - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyc_tex Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 100 yrs ago cars weren't a real transportation option for most.You're absolutely right, but in Manhattan, a horse and buggy was no less efficient than a car is today. Let us not forget that the streetcar system that was omnipresent in almost all cities in the early 20th century were successfully lobbied against by the oil/gas and motor companies to tear up and put in buses. It had much more to do with money than efficiency or practicality. Suburban sprawl was a product of the automobile, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 You're absolutely right, but in Manhattan, a horse and buggy was no less efficient than a car is today.i don't know any horses that go 70.....but back to MainPlace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 i don't know any horses that go 70.....but back to MainPlace.I think his point was that cars pretty much can't go 70 in today's traffic. I bet errands were as easy to run a hundred years ago as they are now.And to make this MainPlace relevant, it is interesting to think that horses, cars, and light rail trains have all traveled in front of the block on which MainPlace will be built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAC Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Here is a new rendering of the MainPlace building, taken from the Magnolia Hotel looking down Fannin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Here is a new rendering of the MainPlace building, taken from the Magnolia Hotel looking down Fannin. Here is the embedded photo for those that are too lazy to click on it. Thanks for the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Wow - cool rendering! It even has reflections on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 That's really beautiful. I used to work in 806 Main right across the street. I remember what Main Street was like from 1989 to 1995 and I laugh at people who think it's a dump now.Do you happen to know the height of the proposal? It appears to be around 620 feet or so if the scale is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 That is a really cool rendering. I would sure like to see something showing how cool Houston will look by 2012. Super city, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Great photo! I notice they photoshopped in some lights in the windows of the old Texaco building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 so this is main looking south? correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Do you happen to know the height of the proposal? It appears to be around 620 feet or so if the scale is correct.Most of the articles beforehand have given 630' as the height, so that would seem pretty much spot on. I agree though, it is a beautiful rendering and I look forward to seeing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 so this is main looking south? correct?Fannin looking south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Fannin looking south.So the west side of the building will front main? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 So the west side of the building will front main?Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 CorrectWe haven't seen a 360 degree view of this thing from the bottom yet, right? All we've seen so far is the lobby and garage, and from this new pic, they look to be facing fannin for the most part. Do we know what will be on main's side? Maybe another entrance to the lobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Can anybody on here put together some graphics of what the skyline will look like from the North (I-45 coming S.) and the West (I-10 going E.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolie Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Can anybody on here put together some graphics of what the skyline will look like from the North (I-45 coming S.) and the West (I-10 going E.)This will fill in some holes the skyline has from certain angles.It's nice. I'd still love to see more 10-story mixed use structures, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnmcbarnacle Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 FWIW...Was by there this morning and most of the old buildings were opened up with a bunch of guys in hard hats moving in and out. The old Dollar Store or whatever it was lookied like it had become a staging ground for the demolition and there were some Cherry Demolition trailers parked inside the old West Building. I saw one guy carrying out some debris so it looks like the destruction is imminent. Anyone know how and when they plan to bring those buildings down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I noticed that some of the storefronts were open this morning and cars were parked inside. Looks like the insides have been gutted, from the first floor at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Here is the embedded photo for those that are too lazy to click on it.Thanks for the photo. The rendering is very cool. I hope the final product won't be tweeked too much and look different. This really has a contemporary feel to it and the garden area near the top is awesome. I wonder how visible it will be from the North and West sides. And to add what someone else already said- maybe someone could compile a Houston 2012 photo....not just DT, but UT and MT as well. m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Seems like the sidewalk is now blocked off along the Rusk side, and the old vendors along Main were removing the last items from their old shops this evening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 I love that this is going up in one of the densest areas of downtown. Main St. will be very active in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAC Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The building on Rusk between the Montague and the Corner Store came down yesterday. See picture attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The building on Rusk between the Montague and the Corner Store came down yesterday. See picture attached.thanks for the update.do you know/could you share the timeline for the demolition of the remaining structures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjones98 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 thanks for the update.do you know/could you share the timeline for the demolition of the remaining structures? I second that request. I have always wanted to see an implosion! > Where would one even look to find that out? I remember when they brought down Page Parks. For obvious reasons, it was early on a Sunday or Saturday. I missed it, but someone on Haif posted a jpeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 wow! that was fast! I haven't been in downtown in a couple of days. Before you know it that wrecking ball will be hitting the rest of it in no time!I had noticed a few days ago that they shut down a lane on Rusk, but I didn't know why. I'm curious on how construction is going to affect main. Odds are they're probably going to have to shut down the northbound side for the duration of construction eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAC Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The rest of the demolition will be spread over the coming 3 months, with the implosion of the Montague set for early January.We will not be closing a lane on Main Street, as lane closures on Main Street are not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Everything seems to be going smoothly. Very efficient process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 (edited) I just walked around the block of the site, and they have crews crawling all over the brown building that fronts Main, with some others in the Montague. They have built scaffolding the entire height of the Stowers building in between it and the other one that is going to be demolished. I guess they must be going level by level on these taller structures taking them out from the top down. It would be fun to watch the Montague go down, any ideas on the timing of the implosion? The area definitely has the smell of recently opened crawlspaces that have not seen the light of day since the 1800 Edited October 8, 2007 by Nate99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Here's a photo from my walk yesterday after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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