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An open letter to HAIF members


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One of your fellow HAIFers asked me to post this message. I'm not going to say who it's from just now, but if the person who wrote it wants to claim it, they should feel free. I think it's well-reasoned and something we all should think about (even me) before we hit the "Reply" button.

Dear Fellow Members,

You know that a few of us are engineers or highly educated, some of us have really cool jobs; but a there are a number of us that are not as fortunate, but that doesn

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One of your fellow HAIFers asked me to post this message. I'm not going to say who it's from just now, but if the person who wrote it wants to claim it, they should feel free. I think it's well-reasoned and something we all should think about (even me) before we hit the "Reply" button.

Before the crash this was a great place for smart discussions about urban issues and architecture. The conversation now has degenerated into pseudo-intellectual babbling and silly one-upsmanship. I think some of the bad vibes blasted around here are completely earned.

Furthermore, I hate all the "great post!" and " :lol: " comments made by people who lack either the conviction or intelligence to express their own opinions. There are "valued" members on this site who believe that dissenting opinions are "trolling," whatever that means, and who will go on for 5-10 posts to rally the rest of their clan against the person, not the opinion. I don't think they do it out of a mean spirit. I think it's actually poor communication and reasoning skills.

Yeah, I act childish on here a lot. I'm a product of the new HAIF. I remember what it was before this. Now, it's more of an entertainment outlet. Some of that entertainment for me, I confess, comes in sarcasm and stirring the pot once in awhile.

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Furthermore, I hate all the "great post!" and " :lol: " comments made by people who lack either the conviction or intelligence to express their own opinions. There are "valued" members on this site who believe that dissenting opinions are "trolling," whatever that means, and who will go on for 5-10 posts to rally the rest of their clan against the person, not the opinion. I don't think they do it out of a mean spirit. I think it's actually poor communication and reasoning skills.

I'm trying to figure out why a smiley or "great post" comment irritates you so Dal. I'm not an engineer, nor did i graduate from college, but put me in my proffessional element (music) and I'll elaborate with the best of them. What I'm saying is, that some of us come here to learn from those that are proffessionals in the given fields talked about here on HAIF, and when we read a well spoken post we send out a compliment to that member, if nothing else out of respect.

Yes I to have been a jerk from time to time, and I agree that sometimes the board recieves less than educational posts or threads, however I suggest you look a little harder at the way you view some of us, and try to be a little more understanding.

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I'm trying to figure out why a smiley or "great post" comment irritates you so Dal. I'm not an engineer, nor did i graduate from college, but put me in my proffessional element (music) and I'll elaborate with the best of them. What I'm saying is, that some of us come here to learn from those that are proffessionals in the given fields talked about here on HAIF, and when we read a well spoken post we send out a compliment to that member, if nothing else out of respect.

Yes I to have been a jerk from time to time, and I agree that sometimes the board recieves less than educational posts or threads, however I suggest you look a little harder at the way you view some of us, and try to be a little more understanding.

I know it's innocent when you do it, Gary. But, I can't really understand your (and others') love for consensus on what many here believe are debatable points. When you chime in with a bunch of smileys, you attempt to declare a measure of consensus and thus, discourage further debate on a subject. What's more, you do so without adding any substantive support of your own. It's cheap debate.

I've gotten involved in discussions here about Metrorail that were inexplicably heated, but had very interesting points going back and forth. Then, someone chimed in on one side with a "great post" comment that diverted the conversation to the camp of lurkers who couldn't offer anything other than to judge the merits of the previous posts. So, it then becomes a debate between a couple of parties and groups of uninformed and, I believe disinterested in the topic "great posters", who turn the intelligent conversation into an argument based, not on facts, but on popularity or admiration of certain cliques of posters. It's forum masturbation for the same people to continually congratulate the same people on "great posts," at the expense of healthy debate. It also ends up being incredibly inefficient in getting points across.

I believe the irrational need for consensus destroys healthy debate on HAIF.

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.........agree about the whole clique mentality, and the mob rule goes into effect. Not to sound insincere or patronizing, but that was a pretty good post dal. You have to remember that alot of us have been together here for a couple of years and even if we disagree on EVERY stinkin point, we are still considered, "internet buddies".

Most "debates" turn into partisan "bashing", and the meek seem to wither away from a truly heated debate, where both sides have valid points, but then gets to a point where if you don't like the truth for BOTH sides of the coin, the name-calling starts.

Edited by TJones
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I know it's innocent when you do it, Gary. But, I can't really understand your (and others') love for consensus on what many here believe are debatable points. When you chime in with a bunch of smileys, you attempt to declare a measure of consensus and thus, discourage further debate on a subject. What's more, you do so without adding any substantive support of your own. It's cheap debate.

Of course it's a cheap debate, that was my point. In other words, I'm concuring with someone that either made the point much better than I ever could, or I've been convinced more or less by that poster, and his or her information. How that "discourages further debate" I don't know.

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Good grief, cry me a river!! Well, I'm a noobie and everyone has been nice to me. I don't understand the problem. There are lots of forums out there, find another if this one offends you. I don't think this original poster should have hid behind the "editor". I mean, we are all adults here and adults don't whine. I mean, one little four letter word and it gets edited out or the entire post is gone. How offensive can a forum be if these are the rules??

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I've gotten involved in discussions here about Metrorail that were inexplicably heated, but had very interesting points going back and forth. Then, someone chimed in on one side with a "great post" comment that diverted the conversation to the camp of lurkers who couldn't offer anything other than to judge the merits of the previous posts. So, it then becomes a debate between a couple of parties and groups of uninformed and, I believe disinterested in the topic "great posters", who turn the intelligent conversation into an argument based, not on facts, but on popularity or admiration of certain cliques of posters. It's forum masturbation for the same people to continually congratulate the same people on "great posts," at the expense of healthy debate. It also ends up being incredibly inefficient in getting points across.

I believe the irrational need for consensus destroys healthy debate on HAIF.

Not to contradict myself, but I agree when you put it in that context. That being said, I don't have a problem with an occasional "good post", as long the person is genually interested in the topic.

Edited by Gary
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I know it's innocent when you do it, Gary. But, I can't really understand your (and others') love for consensus on what many here believe are debatable points. When you chime in with a bunch of smileys, you attempt to declare a measure of consensus and thus, discourage further debate on a subject. What's more, you do so without adding any substantive support of your own. It's cheap debate.

I've gotten involved in discussions here about Metrorail that were inexplicably heated, but had very interesting points going back and forth. Then, someone chimed in on one side with a "great post" comment that diverted the conversation to the camp of lurkers who couldn't offer anything other than to judge the merits of the previous posts. So, it then becomes a debate between a couple of parties and groups of uninformed and, I believe disinterested in the topic "great posters", who turn the intelligent conversation into an argument based, not on facts, but on popularity or admiration of certain cliques of posters. It's forum masturbation for the same people to continually congratulate the same people on "great posts," at the expense of healthy debate. It also ends up being incredibly inefficient in getting points across.

I believe the irrational need for consensus destroys healthy debate on HAIF.

I recommended to Editor to find a way to allow us to rate other members' posts. Its done on other forums I visit, and allows the "meat & potatoes" to not get washed out by the "gravy", so to speak. With that in place the moderators could sweep up unnecessary posts with reminders to share the offenders (lack of) opinion by rating the post of the member they agree with.

For the record though, until that happens, I'll still ocassionally chime in with the "great post" tag when I read a member's post that hits the nail on the head of my opinion on the subject. I will actively continue to refrain from using most smileys, especially the: :wacko::rolleyes: & the dreaded B), which to me is the worst offender of them all. Giving yourself the B) at the end of your post is basically assuming that your "cool like the Fonz", which 99% of the time you are not.

B)

(See, doesn't that look lame?)

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Good grief, cry me a river!! Well, I'm a noobie and everyone has been nice to me. I don't understand the problem. There are lots of forums out there, find another if this one offends you. I don't think this original poster should have hid behind the "editor". I mean, we are all adults here and adults don't whine. I mean, one little four letter word and it gets edited out or the entire post is gone. How offensive can a forum be if these are the rules??

It happens on many forums where people start to get snotty and give little credibility to it's newer members, or in this case people who don't seem to be as privaleged in the career, and often begin to discourage people from ever posting or participating in discussion. Every once in a while someone will come by and remind us.

Sometimes it is posts like yours that lend to that loss of credibility to us new here though. If you're new, how can you suddenly conclude that simply because people have been nice to you, that all is fine in the world?

When threads begin to fill with nonsense, the whole place starts to deteriorate and harder for serious discussion to take place, thus the entire forum loses credibility. So on both parts of the new people and the regulars, there's nothing wrong with asking for a bit of civility.

Edited by flyingman
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Good grief, cry me a river!! Well, I'm a noobie and everyone has been nice to me. I don't understand the problem. There are lots of forums out there, find another if this one offends you. I don't think this original poster should have hid behind the "editor". I mean, we are all adults here and adults don't whine. I mean, one little four letter word and it gets edited out or the entire post is gone. How offensive can a forum be if these are the rules??

I really don't see where you get that this person is "hiding behind" anybody. I take it that he or she ran it past Wayne to get his opinion and or feedback, more than likely to get an opinion from him as to whether or not it would be out of place or not. I think Wayne just withheld the author himself to see what feedback good or bad, came as a result of the post, and avoid any unnecessary flaming, as is quite common these days. I actually think it's a pretty good post, whoever wrote it.

There has definitely been a trend that has emerged in the past year or so, of a lot of personal pissing matches, that somehow manage to migrate from topic to topic. And some of these little cliques find it entertaining I suppose. It really gets boring at times, to here the same old people bickering over the same old thing, over and over, again. Politics are always a heated subject, but hey that's just life. Politics are a passionate subject with some people and involve some that border on fanatical. It goes with the territory. But then the personal attacks start and then the line is crossed. It just seems to happen more often than not these days. It's just a bunch of crap IMHO.

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I really don't see where you get that this person is "hiding behind" anybody. I take it that he or she ran it past Wayne to get his opinion and or feedback, more than likely to get an opinion from him as to whether or not it would be out of place or not. I think Wayne just withheld the author himself to see what feedback good or bad, came as a result of the post, and avoid any unnecessary flaming, as is quite common these days. I actually think it's a pretty good post, whoever wrote it.

You are correct. The person who contacted me initially intended to post the message themselves, and asked me to read it first. I did that, and posted it for them because after they sent it to me, they didn't keep a copy. I left the name off mostly to see how everyone would react. The author is free to step forward.

I recommended to Editor to find a way to allow us to rate other members' posts. Its done on other forums I visit, and allows the "meat & potatoes" to not get washed out by the "gravy", so to speak. With that in place the moderators could sweep up unnecessary posts with reminders to share the offenders (lack of) opinion by rating the post of the member they agree with.

It is already possible to rate threads. At the top of each thread on the right is a clicky thing where you can rank it from 1-5 stars.

It is also possible to rate individual users. Click on a user's name and go to their profile page. From there you can again rank the user from 1-5 stars.

It is not currently possible to rate individual posts within threads, but I think if people made more use of the existing thread rating tools they might like it.

Also, don't forget that if there's someone who chronically gets on your nerves, you can always set them to "ignore" and the system will filter their posts out for you.

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I understand that people ought to be civil to one another. However, when a person makes an issue of someone responding "good post", or with smilies in the comment, that is definitely over the top. I love Gary's smilies and they are "right on". I certainly don't expect others to agree with all my comments and no one should be afraid to comment because they think someone will redicule them. I can't say what I would like to say here or this post will just go away, lol.

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I understand that people ought to be civil to one another. However, when a person makes an issue of someone responding "good post", or with smilies in the comment, that is definitely over the top. I love Gary's smilies and they are "right on". I certainly don't expect others to agree with all my comments and no one should be afraid to comment because they think someone will redicule them. I can't say what I would like to say here or this post will just go away, lol.

There's a long tradition on the internet that replying to a message with a smiley or just "OK" or "Me too!" is considered bad form.

Actually, it pre-dates the commercial/public internet and goes back to Bitnet and Q-Link and The WELL in the 80's (back when e-mail addresses were written "...killer!jolnet!waynel".) Back then people had to pay for each character transmitted, so merely replying "OK" was seen as wasting people's money. These days it's seen more as wasting someone's time. I can understand how someone coming to HAIF after a few days away, clicking "View New Posts" and having to wade through a dozen or so smiley-face-only posts would be an annoyance.

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I understand what you are saying. Maybe some people here are trying to be irritating. However, no one can irritate someone without their help. People who make an issue with little things like forum members who happen to agree with one another and disagree with them, are being childish and petty. I have been around the internet for longer than I will admit to and generally I find Haif a well-run and worthwhile forum. As editor, you are to be commended. However, this is not a Junior-High Forum, if you get my point.

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I really don't see where you get that this person is "hiding behind" anybody.

Yet you disguise yourself with your every plageristic post. You've already been exposed by a moderator and myself as well as other posters. So any comments from you regarding anyone you think is "hiding behind" anything is irrelevant at best.

It is already possible to rate threads. At the top of each thread on the right is a clicky thing where you can rank it from 1-5 stars.

Ummmm.... on my browser it's not there any longer.

Also, don't forget that if there's someone who chronically gets on your nerves, you can always set them to "ignore" and the system will filter their posts out for you.

That is a great option. It speeds up download time and eliminates redundancy.

As far as what TJ said, you won't find a more diverse couple of guys who can argue back and forth but still agree to disagree with respect for one another. As far as Gary goes, I as well have been a jerk from time to time but I like the back-and-forth almost as much as I like his band. :D

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Yet you disguise yourself with your every plageristic post. You've already been exposed by a moderator and myself as well as other posters. So any comments from you regarding anyone you think is "hiding behind" anything is irrelevant at best.

I'm not sure what you mean by "plageristic post," but it sounds like a personal attack. I think this is an example of what the writer was complaining about.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "plageristic post," but it sounds like a personal attack. I think this is an example of what the writer was complaining about.
A plagiarized post is just what it is: a copied statement presented as original. Barnes has a history. "-----" wasn't complaining about factual posts-he was refering to civility. There is a difference between civility and plagerism. Pointing out plagiarism isn't a personal attack. It's more of a cautionary alert so one's words can be heard in context. You can check with the moderator who originally exposed Barnes on that account.
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I understand what you are saying. Maybe some people here are trying to be irritating. However, no one can irritate someone without their help. People who make an issue with little things like forum members who happen to agree with one another and disagree with them, are being childish and petty. I have been around the internet for longer than I will admit to and generally I find Haif a well-run and worthwhile forum. As editor, you are to be commended. However, this is not a Junior-High Forum, if you get my point.

I think you may be missing my point. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. I enjoy disagreement in this forum. In fact, I believe debate is its most valuable function.

Gary was explaining how some come here to "learn". I get what he's saying, but would caution treating an Internet forum as a source of knowledge. It's better suited as a source of information and a forum for expressing opinions -- stupid, smart and otherwise.

Therefor, a spot judgement of a person's post with no substance behind it ends up being counterproductive, as it often diverts the responses and requires the involved parties to then respond to the diversions. This often degenerates into name calling.

I'm really not trying to be petty. I am trying to point out a mentality that I believe has taken this forum down a notch from where it once was. I think this place is most fun and most informative when people have widely differing takes and come in here to spew them wildly. The idea of writing either a textbook about Houston issues or participating in a social circle, where everyone is plastickly supportive of everyone else is less appealing to me. I know, however, that is is appealing to many here. I'm just expressing an opinion.

Edited by dalparadise
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Yeah, I act childish on here a lot. I'm a product of the new HAIF. I remember what it was before this. Now, it's more of an entertainment outlet. Some of that entertainment for me, I confess, comes in sarcasm and stirring the pot once in awhile.

It that sense we can always suggest to remove the "off topic" and "way off topic" as that is where most of the rubbish posts and fights occur.

.........agree about the whole clique mentality.

And we have cliques on here that gang up on people, which is not fair.

I recommended to Editor to find a way to allow us to rate other members' posts.

I thought we had that, did we/are we losing that right?

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Puma, I am not worried one iota about members ganging up on other members on here, and neither should you. Nobody has been reduced to tears on here, and the Cyberthugs who rally together to shout down a member who doesn't agree with their point of view, will always be just that, a Cyberthug, always good for a laugh or two when they predictably band together on certain subjects. That is the least of my concerns. I think some of us post topics just to stir the pot once and awhile on here on purpose, me excluded of course......I would NEVER!

Don't you members and guests who have been here longer than 6 months realize that this is more than a forum, it has become a chatroom for alot of us to express ideas, and information, and philosophies. We trust that our fellow HAIFers for the most part are upright, law abiding citizens, with no malicious intent of ANY information that they may provide. Often times it is mere opinions and personal experiences that they are speaking from, and when others who don't share that opinion or haven't had a similar experience in order to relate, sometimes forget their manners, and take it to the edge. If they would only take a second to think about "Why on Earth would this person, I don't even know, have said that?", then some of the catiness on here would probably be avoided. But, we don't know who you REALLY are. You could be that girl who spilt coffee on us at the Starbuck's last Sunday, and she deserves to have both barrels unloaded on her, because she typed on here, that she, "Doesn't think it's right that you aren't supposed to wear WHITE after Labor Day !" Why, what NERVE, really ?!?! I also realize that some posts are just soooooo moronic, that you can't believe you are actualy reading it, just like some of you are thinking to yourselves right NOW, as you read this............HA! GOTCHA SUCKA!

If we just took a second to analyze some of the responses, we might refrain from such bad form as name calling and bringing up crap that happened 6 months ago ?! I realize though that sometimes the urge to resist is just toooo strong, and responding to people like Plastic, or people that you think might be related to Plastic on here, just gets the better of us, and KABOOM!!!

Edited by TJones
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good post

B)

just kidding, seriously, I totally agree and we could all use a little more " agree to disagree " mentality when the disagreements get to a certain point.

I have often found myself thinking differently then a lot of my friends or co-workers but have never had a problem getting along once I realized that people are as stubborn as I am usually.

Edited by westguy76
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All I can say is when I first came across this site I assumed it was a professional architectural related site for others to discuss related topics on architecture. For the most part it is.

Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

There was a time I used to let many people know of Haif at professional network events but I stopped after learning of some of the mean-spirited and down right attacks I have seen here. There are some that are blatant "harassment" and bordering on stalking. What I have also learned is to not take things so personal. Sometimes I type something then later realized how unpleasant it might sound so I correct it. While working for HR in corporate we had ongoing classes on email usage. In a business setting if some of these members were employees of the company they would have been let go by now. The

demeanor seen on this forum by some is considered a "liability" to many companies these days. Hence, a corporation would release that person as they come across as so offensive they are setting that company up for a suit. Serious stuff these days people.

To continue to track any other member on and off again not only makes the attacker look foolish it also hurts the forum as a whole. People must know that even though you delete or modify any message it can be traced. Just like email.

Now, if those little smiley faces were not there to be used maybe they should be removed? I see no reason no to have them? If tiny/miniscule things like that bother some maybe they can just ignore. That simple. Again, I do enjoy this forum for the most part but it is the personal attacks that are presently out of control. Its as if there are no moderators or as if the moderators agree with the attacker?

Finally, as stated the "harassment" needs to end now. People don't care of a person's politcal status or if they dont like certain religions. Just let people live. No one need to explain to other members anything.

Peace on Earth good will ......

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To continue to track any other member on and off again not only makes the attacker look foolish it also hurts the forum as a whole. People must know that even though you delete or modify any message it can be traced. Just like email.

Now, if those little smiley faces were not there to be used maybe they should be removed? I see no reason no to have them? If tiny/miniscule things like that bother some maybe they can just ignore. That simple. Again, I do enjoy this forum for the most part but it is the personal attacks that are presently out of control. Its as if there are no moderators or as if the moderators agree with the attacker?

Finally, as stated the "harassment" needs to end now. People don't care of a person's politcal status or if they dont like certain religions. Just let people live. No one need to explain to other members anything.

Vertigo58, I take that part to heart, and I have been on both sides of that, (I was too a Plastic basher). Reading that post makes me realize each one of us is responsible for fueling the activity in here, and I want to make it a better place too. Group hug! B) <--- I used the sunglass dude!

Edited by Pumapayam
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also, for the record, i use B) when i know i might be stepping on toes or should consider remaining incognito.

I would think the :ph34r: would be more appropriate for incognito, as the :closedeyes: or :unsure: would be for stepping on toes.

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Why don't we get a word limit? I have seen some forums have a "25 character" limit. Sometimes it forces members to make long and thought-out posts. I read Dallas Metropolis, and they don't have the attacks and things like that. It feels like in every thread HAIF, someone is being called out or something like that. It is Houston's version of SSC or Urban Planet (both sites that I try to avoid). Not everyone has the same amount of knowledge on all subjects. That may have something to do with the short posts in some threads (I am guilty of them). Oh and Vertigo, I am one of those under 18 reading those topics (I'm 16).

HAIF sounded like the ____ (in a good way) before it crashed.

Edited by Trae
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Why don't we get a word limit? I have seen some forums have a "25 character" limit.

Best I idea yet to reduce rubbish posts. Add in removal of puncuations counting as characters and that would solve that issue.

That way we don't get a whole bunch of "Hi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."

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Best I idea yet to reduce rubbish posts. Add in removal of puncuations counting as characters and that would solve that issue.

That way we don't get a whole bunch of "Hi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."

The most positive aspect of reducing letters is due to the fact that some post 7-8 paragraphs of news articles and encyclopedia style responses. Basically some reply with "manifestos" of gibberish just to strike back at another ones reply to a topic. Its like having to hear of a movie everyone saw but you didnt see it so you have to endure until the little spat is over with.

Some dont know when to stop trying to make a point. I would say the worse part is when others "inflate the ego of the same instigator" That only fuels the arrogance. :wacko:

PS, I'm glad someone just indicated they are 16 yrs old. See what I mean folks.

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Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

Blame the moderators!

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All I can say is when I first came across this site I assumed it was a professional architectural related site for others to discuss related topics on architecture. For the most part it is.

Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

There was a time I used to let many people know of Haif at professional network events but I stopped after learning of some of the mean-spirited and down right attacks I have seen here. There are some that are blatant "harassment" and bordering on stalking. What I have also learned is to not take things so personal. Sometimes I type something then later realized how unpleasant it might sound so I correct it. While working for HR in corporate we had ongoing classes on email usage. In a business setting if some of these members were employees of the company they would have been let go by now. The

demeanor seen on this forum by some is considered a "liability" to many companies these days. Hence, a corporation would release that person as they come across as so offensive they are setting that company up for a suit. Serious stuff these days people.

To continue to track any other member on and off again not only makes the attacker look foolish it also hurts the forum as a whole. People must know that even though you delete or modify any message it can be traced. Just like email.

Now, if those little smiley faces were not there to be used maybe they should be removed? I see no reason no to have them? If tiny/miniscule things like that bother some maybe they can just ignore. That simple. Again, I do enjoy this forum for the most part but it is the personal attacks that are presently out of control. Its as if there are no moderators or as if the moderators agree with the attacker?

Finally, as stated the "harassment" needs to end now. People don't care of a person's politcal status or if they dont like certain religions. Just let people live. No one need to explain to other members anything.

Peace on Earth good will ......

What a load of crap.

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Guest Marty

I know a lot members think I am a jerk or a pain in the butt but I am going to respect this forum buy thinking twice about hitting the reply button/ keeping my edgy personal views to my self, remember we are all guest in the editor's house = Haif.

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What a load of crap.

That was uncalled for, and you could have conveyed that message in a mature manner. I am surprised that you would place a response like that in a thread that represent exactly was the open letter complains about.

We could do without those kind of posts, especially since it was "25 characters or less"

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I think you've just illustrated that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I will throw in my opinion Editor, I think he is toy-ing along the same lines as 77017, and that smilie :lol: is more of a taunt, especially when he is taunting the owner of the site.

If I was to suggest something without saying it, and I hope you do it. We don't need people like that in here.

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Guest Marty
I will throw in my opinion Editor, I think he is toy-ing along the same lines as 77017, and that smilie :lol: is more of a taunt, especially when he is taunting the owner of the site.

If I was to suggest something without saying it, and I hope you do it. We don't need people like that in here.

This should be a Personal Message, keep your personal opinions to your self.

Edited by Marty
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Hey, here's an example of what kind of discussion to not have (One loaded with personal attacks)

http://www.kingwoodunderground.com/topic.j...opicId=10500778

I notice a lot of personal attacks toward not just the subjects of the article (illegal immigrants who died in a car crash), but also towards each other.

Not everyone in the topic is cruel, but some are.

EDIT: Yes, "Vicman," the very "Vicman" on the forum is me. I'm trying to add some common sense and I am refraining from personal attacks.

Edited by VicMan
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This should be a Personal Message, keep your personal opinions to your self.

Nope, I'd rather it be an open message. My thoughts were appropriately communicated. If it was a personal message, I would have been much more casual with my language.

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Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.
Blame the moderators!

I'd rather blame those who submit inappropriate posts. :)

Because of HAIF's success, there are now so many posts that we moderators can no longer review each one. If a HAIF member encounters a truly offensive post (and not merely one with which he disagrees), he's encouraged to bring it to a moderator's attention.

Defining 'offensive' isn't an exact science. The editor and we moderators discuss, ponder and struggle with achieving a balance between civility and free expression. Generally, we tend to come down on the latter's side.

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I'd rather blame those who submit inappropriate posts. :)

Because of HAIF's success, there are now so many posts that we moderators can no longer review each one. If a HAIF member encounters a truly offensive post (and not merely one with which he disagrees), he's encouraged to bring it to a moderator's attention.

Defining 'offensive' isn't an exact science. The editor and we moderators discuss, ponder and struggle with achieving a balance between civility and free expression. Generally, we tend to come down on the latter's side.

DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

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DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

It is probably best not to name drop in an open area if you have issues with someone (you live and learn), direct those kind of remarks to another moderator or the editor.

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It is probably best not to name drop in an open area if you have issues with someone (you live and learn), direct those kind of remarks to another moderator or the editor.

A comment was made about moderators and I diplomatically added my opinion. I didn't name-call. I didn't state it as fact. I think I'm within the guidelines and I don't care what you think.

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DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

Maybe there should be a thread dedicated to HAIF "quality control & improvement"?

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Guest Marty
Maybe there should be a thread dedicated to HAIF "quality control & improvement"?

That would suck because it will be nothing but "This member should be banned" nonsense.

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That would suck because it will be nothing but "This member should be banned" nonsense.

Oh no no.. I was referring to a thread to discuss the Moderators & the job that they are doing (good or bad) - all in an effort to improve the forum of course.

I actually have quite a few compliments I'd like to hand out to certain moderators.

Edited by Jeebus
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I had my differences with several of the moderators before in the past but I got over it and put it behind me, there is only 5 Moderators in this forum they cant keep up with every post that's posted on here.

Edited by Marty
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