Proposal to ban lawn-parking

[musicman]

What about the people that have semi rural property (but still in the city limits)...? Will this apply to them as well? Or is this just for city dwellers in sub divisions?

all city of houston

[houstonmacbro]

So my mother who has a gravel driveway in a rural plot of private land --but still in the city-- cannot park her car anywhere on her 2 acres EXCEPT right in her cement driveway that only extends about 20 feet from the house? That makes ...

...and what about when family and friends come over ...? They cannot park on her spacious lawn --that no one can see from the highway, by the way, because it is behind a thick canopy of trees ...?'

Classic.

[musicman]

So my mother who has a gravel driveway in a rural plot of private land --but still in the city-- cannot park her car anywhere on her 2 acres EXCEPT right in her cement driveway that only extends about 20 feet from the house? That makes ...

...and what about when family and friends come over ...? They cannot park on her spacious lawn --that no one can see from the highway, by the way, because it is behind a thick canopy of trees ...?'

Classic.

she can park on the gravel as well but the kicker is that she can only park a limited number of cars in front of the house even if they are on the driveway. i.e. the ordinance is poorly written.

[houstonmacbro]

Well, I suppose she (we're) safe then anyhow .. we can't get a cop out our way without having to declare some major catastrophe. I doubt they'd be hiding at the end of her driveway, spying to see who is parked on the cement, gravel, or the lawn...

... but then again, you never know ...

[musicman]

Well, I suppose she (we're) safe then anyhow .. we can't get a cop out our way without having to declare some major catastrophe. I doubt they'd be hiding at the end of her driveway, spying to see who is parked on the cement, gravel, or the lawn...

... but then again, you never know ...

LOL this is one of those feel good ordinances that won't be enforced like the homeless ordinance.

[houstonmacbro]

Houston has homeless?

[RedScare]

No, they are actors to make it look like we have homeless. All world class cities have homeless, but since we are an "opportunity city", all of our homeless got jobs, bought homes, and started parking their new cars on their front lawns, so we had to hire actors to play homeless, and pass an ordinance to ban parking on front lawns. It is a very complicated situation, but we have it under control.

[houstonmacbro]

Well, I know we have a big homeless population, but you just don't see too many except at underpasses and stop lights near certain freeways. I guess we do a good job of masking the issue.

[Guest Marty]

Hitler seen flouting the new City of Houston lawn parking ordinance, by ingeniously placing pavement only under the treads of his Panzer at the Berghof residence, located on the Near Eastside.

In my Grandma's neighborhood on the south side of Fort Worth "1923 circa traditional house" alot of driveway's look like two sidewalks 3-4 feet apart in the 1980's but most of those were turned into a regular concrete driveway's. I think that would look alot better than gravel or solid concrete.

[musicman]

Well, I know we have a big homeless population, but you just don't see too many except at underpasses and stop lights near certain freeways. I guess we do a good job of masking the issue.

go to hermann park.

[mumbles]

If they aren't parked in the yard they are in the street and the street looks like a parking lot. Not sure it makes much difference. The HOA here does not allow yard parking but they seem to overlook the fact that multiple families are not supposed to be living in single family homes. If they handled that problem there would certainly be less cars per house.

[musicman]

looks like this will be up for debate again tomorrow. stay tuned.

[sevfiv]

a bit behind on my reading, but i haven't seen any more on this...

found lisa gray's commentary, too:

But new-construction neighborhoods inside the Loop react differently, and with reason. As the inner city grows denser, grassy yards are disappearing. A single bungalow is razed, making room for three townhouses. And where one driveway once sufficed, three are needed.

Civic clubbers in those new-feeling, dense-packed neighborhoods see the world differently than their spread-out, big-yard counterparts. In Cottage Grove, northeast of Memorial Park, townhouses are swallowing the cottages and groves, so there's ever less unpaved ground available to absorb rain. The remaining trees struggle to get enough water to stay alive, and flooding threatens property values more than tackiness. Asphalt is the enemy. Supporters of the yard-parking ban argue that cars are bound to leak oil and fluids into a yard, posing a pollution hazard. But Linda Mercer, who's both a Cottage Grove resident and vice president of White Oak Bayou Association, argues that actually, parking on grass prevents water pollution.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...ay/4907647.html

[Guest danax]

There are a lot of angles on this issue and some overlap a bit. For example, letting the cars park on the front lawn might be better than paving it over partially, in terms of flooding, but the ugliness that is added to an entire area when cars are parked everywhere keeps property values low, which, in the case of the East End in particular, might only hasten townhome development via teardowns, which ends up causing a huge loss of total yard space. In other words, a well-maintained nabe inside the loop is less likely to get torn down.

[MidtownCoog]

So are the are nice looking houses with yard parkers?

Most I see look like dumps.

[Guest danax]

So are the are nice looking houses with yard parkers?

Most I see look like dumps.

Yard parking is often part of a larger dumpiness issue. The area I live in could look like a postcard from 1940 if people kept up their homes. They still might be dumps to some people though.

[musicman]

a bit behind on my reading, but i haven't seen any more on this...

found lisa gray's commentary, too:

i'm thinking ms gray is overly dramatic.

[sevfiv]

i'm thinking ms gray is overly dramatic.

perhaps, but i always think her columns are more interesting than anything else in the chronicle, though, and they provoke discussion that usually isn't out there in the media

plus, she is really the only outspoken proponent for preservation in this city when it comes to the media

[musicman]

Here's one of my favorite examples and i must note that i've seen the front COMPLETELY filled. Currently they are parked everywhere BUT the driveway

[CDeb]

Here's one of my favorite examples and i must note that i've seen the front COMPLETELY filled. Currently they are parked everywhere BUT the driveway

Maybe they don't own a lawnmower and want to stop the grass from growing.

[musicman]

Maybe they don't own a lawnmower and want to stop the grass from growing.

but even parking over the sidewalk is illegal....and yet HPD just doesn't enforce the ordinance.

[Vertigo58]

but even parking over the sidewalk is illegal....and yet HPD just doesn't enforce the ordinance.

That is so very true.

There are too many autos in these homes because there are about 2-3 families living in the house AND the garage. What were once garages are now bedrooms and bars, hence the parking problem. Do you really think these folks go and ask for a permit to convert these garages. No way, it will blow their cover. Many are temporary holding places for new arrivals. Love thy neighbor like Mr. Olsteen says.

[Reefmonkey]

Is this really a serious problem that the City Council needs to address? Seems like if a neighborhood homeowner's association wants to pass a deed restriction against parking in yards, they can do it.

What's next, City Council will have an ordinance against putting my trash out on the curb early? Against having my boat in my driveway?

I would be ticked if someone in my neighborhood parked their cars in the grass, but then again, people in my neighborhood have pride in the neighborhood, and a strong HOA to prevent that. This should be a neighborhood-by-neighborhood thing - if it doesn't bother the people in the neighborhood enough to make it a deed restriction violation, then it shouldn't bother me, or the City, as no one has to live there. Again, if the current residents see it as a problem, they can get a deed restriction passed.

[musicman]

What's next, City Council will have an ordinance against putting my trash out on the curb early?

there's already an ordinance prohibiting this and where you place the actual can.

[rps324]

Is this really a serious problem that the City Council needs to address? Seems like if a neighborhood homeowner's association wants to pass a deed restriction against parking in yards, they can do it.

What's next, City Council will have an ordinance against putting my trash out on the curb early? Against having my boat in my driveway?

I would be ticked if someone in my neighborhood parked their cars in the grass, but then again, people in my neighborhood have pride in the neighborhood, and a strong HOA to prevent that. This should be a neighborhood-by-neighborhood thing - if it doesn't bother the people in the neighborhood enough to make it a deed restriction violation, then it shouldn't bother me, or the City, as no one has to live there. Again, if the current residents see it as a problem, they can get a deed restriction passed.

No, they cannot simply get a deed restriction passed. Getting deed restrictions revised in older areas is pretty close to impossible, so it is no where near that simple. Many older areas do not have HOA's, they only have civic clubs with voluntary dues, which further aggravates issues. You don't have funds for lawyers to pursue problems.

And yes, people who put heavy trash out for sure will get a ticket if it is out too early.

[Vertigo58]

HPD just doesn't enforce as we keep stating, especially inside the loop. Older nabes do not have Homeowner's Associations either. That's why resident's like moi are tormented by violators. We can call HPD until we turn blue, they pass by about 1 hour later and keep going. Don't even bother to stop. You are basically left to fend for yourself. The elderly residents have just plain given up.

[Reefmonkey]

No, they cannot simply get a deed restriction passed. Getting deed restrictions revised in older areas is pretty close to impossible, so it is no where near that simple.

That's funny, because my neighborhood, which was founded in the late 50s (old for Houston) has gotten several new deed restrictions passed in the last 3 years, so I guess it can be that simple.

HPD just doesn't enforce as we keep stating, especially inside the loop. Older nabes do not have Homeowner's Associations either. That's why resident's like moi are tormented by violators. We can call HPD until we turn blue, they pass by about 1 hour later and keep going. Don't even bother to stop. You are basically left to fend for yourself. The elderly residents have just plain given up.

Yeah, you're right, HPD won't enforce it, which just goes to prove: anyone who would want this thing to ACTUALLY be enforced would WANT it to be a deed restriction, not an ordinance. There are always at least a few crabby old retired people in every neighborhood who take it upon themselves to patrol the neighborhood in their Crown Victorias looking for deed restriction violations to report. HOAs have scary power that municipalities would never think of wielding.

http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news...owMedia/id/3045

Starting a Homeowner's Association in an established neighborhood that doesn't have one will be difficult and take time, but it is certainly going to be more effective in the long run than hoping that HPD will enforce this law. I know it sucks for current residents in these older neighborhoods that they have to deal with the headache of people parking in their yards, but 1. Since we all agree the law will not be enforced, they are no better off with it in place that they were before, and 2. You can't legislate everything. Sometimes it is just best to let market forces prevail. If parking on lawns is taking place in these neighborhoods, it is probably just one of many symptoms of malaise and lack of pride in the neighborhood that is dragging down market value. You aren't going to be able to legislate that away. Neighborhoods with strong deed restrictions will be more attractive to people, and so the neighborhoods without them will empty out or change demographic over time. This opens them up to being bought up by organizations that will redevelop them. As you said, this is especially a problem of older neighborhoods without HOAs inside the loop. Having just moved from inside the loop to where I am now (memorial area) I know how high prices are for houses, even rundown little shacks in not-so-great neighborhoods - the land value is just so high, because there are a bunch of builders waiting for the old owners to sell so they can tear one house down and put up four townhomes on its lot. For wht people can get for their old little crappy houses in town, they can buy a nicer, bigger house in a deed restricted area outside the loop. That's market forces at work. No one is being forced by price to live INSIDE the loop.

Look on the bright side - next time you get your property tax appraisal value notice, you can go to HCAD with pictures of your lawn-parking neighbors, protest your market value based on that, and have a good chance of getting your taxes reduced.

I look at Houston crime reports, especially since Katrina, and don't think it makes good sense for HPD to be spending its time writing tickets to people who park on their own lawns, no matter how trashy the practice is. I would rather see them patroling and deterring violent crime and property theft.

[Reefmonkey]

This seems to be the most updated version I could find:

http://blogs.chron.com/cityhall/archives/yardparking2.pdf

The concern about damaging underground infrastructure like water pipes seems to be the most justifiable reason for a city ordinance. In that case, I think:

1. It should be written into the ordinance that anyone who damages underground infrastructure should be required to pay the cost of repair, and the city should be given the power to put a lien on the property until the person pays.

2. The ordinance should be enforced by the city works department, not by HPD. If you see someone violating, you should call city works, who writes a citation.

In response to what Mr. Chenevert said:

You dont even have to pave it... as Christoph pointed out in his blog last week, in the ordinance, driveway is defined as any area that is primarily used for parking cars. And it also says that driveways are exempt from the ordinance.

So as I see it, if you use a portion of your front yard as a primary spot to park cars, you are legal.

What a badly written oridance.

If you read the ordinance, it states that wherever you usually park, it must be an improved surface, at least 4 inches thick. This seems to negate the idea of someone pointing to the already rutted up area of their yard and saying "see, that's the area I primarily park, so that's my driveway."

[gwilson]

Here is a quote from the comments section of the article...

And, this is exactly the problem I have with the ordinance. It is not the City's job to legislate "tacky" and "nothing but trash". While parking on lawns may be unsightly, there needs to be a legitimate reason to regulate it. "Tacky" is not legitimate. In case no one has noticed, yard parking is prevalent in the Heights as well, but few complain, because most pave the area (usually the City's ROW) to look respectable.

If the proposed ordinance addresses real issues, such as ruts that collect water that breed mosquitoes, or environmental issues, I am OK with it. But, if it is just the taste police, that is a road we do not want to go down. We don't need taste dictated to us, especially when too many people think "tasteful" is the bland, monotonous landscape found in master planned communities. That is not tasteful...it is boring.

Real negative effects on property value are a good enough reason.

[Vertigo58]

This seems to be the most updated version I could find:

http://blogs.chron.com/cityhall/archives/yardparking2.pdf

The concern about damaging underground infrastructure like water pipes seems to be the most justifiable reason for a city ordinance. In that case, I think:

1. It should be written into the ordinance that anyone who damages underground infrastructure should be required to pay the cost of repair, and the city should be given the power to put a lien on the property until the person pays.

2. The ordinance should be enforced by the city works department, not by HPD. If you see someone violating, you should call city works, who writes a citation.

In response to what Mr. Chenevert said:

If you read the ordinance, it states that wherever you usually park, it must be an improved surface, at least 4 inches thick. This seems to negate the idea of someone pointing to the already rutted up area of their yard and saying "see, that's the area I primarily park, so that's my driveway."

What a coincidence!

The people that moved in next door started parking on the lawn and found that the pressure from his truck crushed the water and sewage pipes on the side. They had to hire a crew to dig up all the side yard from to back and replace all new. Now they have to park on the street.

Too soon to pop the champagne bottle though, now they use that part of the lawn to place living room couch, barbecue pit and numerous plastic cans for beer bottles. Oh yes, and for the chicken's & roosters to flutter about. There may be cows grazing on my lawn when I get home.