We Know $807 Million Is A Lot Of Money But

[H-Town Man]

If you can identify one single thing that an 81 million dollar sports and athletic complex contributes to the quality of education in Cy-Fair schools I would love to hear it.

I never said it contributed anything to the quality of education in Cy-Fair schools.

But, since you asked: It contributes sports and athletics.

[mrfootball]

I predict the same thing will happen in Cy-Fair in about 30 years. Some of these expensive and resplendent educational palaces will be sitting empty.

Doubt it. They build the High Schools to accomodate up to around 3,000-3,500 students. In their long-range planning...they do anticipate the population to age and the numbers to gradually steady out with each HS having around 2,500 students/each.

As for now, the district is adding the equivalent of a 4A or small 5A district each year and is just trying to keep up with the growth.

i think he's a football coach there.

Nope. I'm a marketing guy who loves football.

I'm actually surprised at some of the naivet

[musicman]

I'm actually surprised at some of the naivet

[FilioScotia]

I never said it contributed anything to the quality of education in Cy-Fair schools. But, since you asked: It contributes sports and athletics.

It's a good thing you never said it because you would either be lying, or you would be the one suffering from terminal naivete. Sports and athletics contribute NOTHING to the quality of education in public schools, and they are an enormous drain on resources.

When I think of all the money this school district spends on sports and sports facilities, and how that money could be going directly into the classrooms to pay for education programs, maybe even pay teachers a little more money, it makes me want to throw up when people like you stand there and parrot the tired old myths about the importance of sports.

It is unconscionable to spend 80 million dollars on a sports facility that would impress the ancient Romans, and require teachers to buy their own classroom supplies out of their own pockets.

Come to think of it, the Romans and today's sports crazy school boards have a lot in common. They know that bread and circuses keep people happy, and less inclined to think about how corrupt their government is. Plus

[mrfootball]

building a high school football stadium is one thing. spending 80 million on it is another. there is middle ground on all projects but this one went way over.

Luckily they managed to throw in a nice 9,500 seat arena, concert hall, conference facilities/meeting rooms, offices and food production facility in along with the deal.

Another thing that people fail to mention is that CFISD schools compete with each other in their own District, so in effect - nearly every game is a home game for CFISD schools. All revenue goes to the district. Not sure what that adds up to, but I would imagine it winds up being a decent chunk of change during football season. During the course of the year, these facilities could generate enough revenue to pay its debt service - especially if they got more aggressive attracting more concerts, events, etc. If utilized properly, this facility could produce revenue for the district

[musicman]

Luckily they managed to throw in a nice 9,500 seat arena, concert hall, conference facilities/meeting rooms, offices and food production facility in along with the deal.

oh ok that makes it worthwhile.

[chamberscreek]

The irritating thing about the Berry Center is that it was not presented honestly during the corresponding bond election. If you took 100 random people to the Berry Center today and asked them to describe it in a few words, I don't think anyone would come up with "Educational Support Center," yet that was how it was pitched to the public during the bond election. I think the CFISD board was intentionally deceptive in presenting the project. If the Berry Center was truly needed (and it may be), why wasn't it simply presented in a straightforward fashion with all the arguments laid out?

I'll look forward to seeing the package for this bond election to see if it is more up-front on things. I'm not a knee-jerk "don't spend any money" person, but I hate being lied to...

[mrfootball]

The irritating thing about the Berry Center is that it was not presented honestly during the corresponding bond election. If you took 100 random people to the Berry Center today and asked them to describe it in a few words, I don't think anyone would come up with "Educational Support Center," yet that was how it was pitched to the public during the bond election. I think the CFISD board was intentionally deceptive in presenting the project. If the Berry Center was truly needed (and it may be), why wasn't it simply presented in a straightforward fashion with all the arguments laid out?

I'll look forward to seeing the package for this bond election to see if it is more up-front on things. I'm not a knee-jerk "don't spend any money" person, but I hate being lied to...

Totally agree with your reasoning. Everything should be spelled out clearly so that taxpayers know exactly what they're voting for.

[FilioScotia]

Totally agree with your reasoning. Everything should be spelled out clearly so that taxpayers know exactly what they're voting for.

Well, that's progress, coming from you. There may be hope for you yet, but it's incredible that you appear to have bought the myth that high school sports pay for themselves.

"They don't even come close to supporting themselves -- anywhere, and it's amazing that an otherwise intelligent and educated person would say such a thing." Those aren't my words. You know who said that ? A former Texas Education Commissioner, in the early 80s, in response to a well known high school coach who was speaking out against HB 72, which created No Pass No Play. The former commish had to wait till he retired to speak that heresy in sports crazy Texas.

Getting back to the point, I will always believe that if the CF board had been completely truthful and up front about what that 81 million dollars was going to build, voters would never have approved the bond issue. It seems clear to me that the board also believed that, and was afraid the bonds would be defeated for that reason, which is why they chose to be so deceitful about it.

Now they're coming at us again, with the largest bond issue in CFISD history. 807 million dollars. Here we go again. Assume the position people. It's coming.

[H-Town Man]

It's a good thing you never said it because you would either be lying, or you would be the one suffering from terminal naivete. Sports and athletics contribute NOTHING to the quality of education in public schools, and they are an enormous drain on resources.

When I think of all the money this school district spends on sports and sports facilities, and how that money could be going directly into the classrooms to pay for education programs, maybe even pay teachers a little more money, it makes me want to throw up when people like you stand there and parrot the tired old myths about the importance of sports.

It is unconscionable to spend 80 million dollars on a sports facility that would impress the ancient Romans, and require teachers to buy their own classroom supplies out of their own pockets.

Come to think of it, the Romans and today's sports crazy school boards have a lot in common. They know that bread and circuses keep people happy, and less inclined to think about how corrupt their government is. Plus

[JustinUther]

OK I like the sports programs. I have a son that participates and I think it is good to give kids something to keep them out of trouble and to build character. But spending our money on school programs needs to be more balanced. We need remember the core classes and also keep in mind those kids who aren't into sports.

We should spend some money on other things besides athletics. Maybe the CFISD School Board could ask us if we want to pay teachers more. Equipment for science classrooms, instruments for the band and orchestra, large up-to-date auditoriums for the music programs and drama to perform in, buy books and computers for the libraries and fund trips for the foreign language students.

I don't mind paying some extra taxes when it goes to a good cause but we should also share this opportunity to contribute with those who haven't decided to settle down and buy property. Maybe raise a 1/2 penny sales tax to pay this and reduce the amount that I'll be required to pay in taxes.

[musicman]

Why else would so many universities like Rice strive to build beautiful campuses?

If it is funded privately it isn't an issue but when public funds are involved, that comes with more scrutiny.

[FilioScotia]

It sounds like you're the one wasting energy getting mad. I didn't parrot a single "tired old myth," as you claim. I do think that peripheral things such as sports add to an education, if only because they give the student a certain pride in and enjoyment of the school which can transfer over to morale in the classroom.

If money were being used for sports at the expense of teacher salaries and classroom facilities, then I would be against it. It so happens that I am a schoolteacher. But I think that sports are important, and I think that beautiful facilities can add to community pride as well as student pride. Why else would so many universities like Rice strive to build beautiful campuses?

I give up. With apologies to Thomas Gray, "where ignorance is bliss, t'is folly to even try to be wise."

[mrfootball]

I think the calls for more teacher & classroom funding are moot with regards to bond elections as those types of things are funded by an entirely different source.

Personally, I'd like to be able to opt out of the Public School system altogether and have my taxes go towards my kid's tuition at the private school of my choice, however...the system is what it is and you try to put your kids in the finest schools available. That's why we moved to Longwood.

While I understand people's complaints about the cost of the Berry. It's a magnificent facility on a scale not seen in High School Athletics. Then again, to put it into perspective CFISD is not on the scale of your typical school district.

Ultimately, I like the fact they built this facility to be the best there is anywhere. I'd be more pissed off had they cut corners just to save a couple million.

[H-Town Man]

If it is funded privately it isn't an issue but when public funds are involved, that comes with more scrutiny.

Why can't the public decide to have beautiful schools as well if it wants to? Just like we have decided to have beautiful sports stadiums, a beautiful capitol, a beautiful city hall...

I give up. With apologies to Thomas Gray, "where ignorance is bliss, t'is folly to even try to be wise."

It says a lot that you can't have an intelligent discussion with someone without first getting into a frenzy of rage and then dismissing that person as ignorant. Who educated you?

[musicman]

Why can't the public decide to have beautiful schools as well if it wants to? Just like we have decided to have beautiful sports stadiums, a beautiful capitol, a beautiful city hall...

did you decide how the beautiful the reliant stadium, the capital or city hall looked? is the PUBLIC deciding how it looks or is the SCHOOL district deciding in this instance? I personally would prefer that money would be spent directly on education rather than decorations for a school

[mrfootball]

Do you live in The District? If not, what district do you live in?

[Jedijake]

I work in the district. As a matter of fact, I teach at one of the newer high schools.

Cy-Fair has a very aggressive and well-planned tactic for construction of new schools that dates back to the time when the district laid the groundwork for development. Bridgeland was in the works well before I came to the district in 2002 and was set to be the next Woodlands (but somewhat smaller than the 67,000 population that The Woodlands has).

No, there is not a stadium in the works. I know all the hoopla surrounding the Berry Center. Some of it may be warranted but some is not. Remember, the taxpayers vote for the bond that includes the packages. People within the district are not complaining and if you consider how parents of high school kids had to be shuffled all over Houston for graduation and football games, you can see why. Deal with traffic and parking at the Reliant Stadium or pay minimal taxes for your own facility?

All bonds pass overwhelmingly and always have as far as I remember. The new high schools will like be placed (1) in the Bridgelands near the proposed Grand Parkway, likely relieving Cy-Woods and the future influx into Cy-Ranch (opening in 2008) and (2) west of Fry Road and north of 529 to relieve both Cy-Springs, Langham Creek, and Cy-Lakes (opening in 2008).

Populations at Creek, Ridge, and Jersey Village have now become VERY steady since the areas feeding into those schools are very saturated. There likely will not be any new schools built anytime in the near future for the east end of the district. The growth is ALL in the west and northwest.

The Bridgelands will also have possibly up to 8 elementary schools eventually, but certainly no less than 4. Add to that 2-3 middle schools.

Architecture for Cy-Fair schools is handled by PBK builders. They make great schools but they have had to make "adjustments" to some of their interior room space. The need for those adjustments became apparent after the completion of Springs and Ridge. PBK handles many districts across the state and designed the Woodlands College Park High School and several Katy schools such as Morton Ranch and Cinco Ranch HS's. Districts such as Magnolia and Tomball contracted PBK to refurbish the entrance designs to their high schools as well.

Included in the bond package will be MUCH needed technology (hopefully some more science equipment since that is what I teach).

I'm not sure of the timeline, but I am going to guess they will try to put up a high school to relieve Lakes and Springs in about 4 years. The other one can probably wait since Ranch is not expected to exceed 2500 for at least 4 years (most kiddos in the new 290/Fry/New Cypress North Houston areas won't be old enough yet).

[RedScare]

People within the district are not complaining and if you consider how parents of high school kids had to be shuffled all over Houston for graduation and football games, you can see why. Deal with traffic and parking at the Reliant Stadium or pay minimal taxes for your own facility?

You must not be talking to anyone in the district. There are quotes in the article from upset taxpayers, as well as several posts on this thread. You may only teach at Cy Fair now, but you have a great future as a school board member, given your ability to not hear the complaints. After voters realize that this bond sale will give CFISD the 2nd HIGHEST tax rate in Houston (behind big spending Katy), I wonder if you will hear them then?

However, I must concede that paying an extra $130 per year in school taxes (on a $200,000 home) sounds a lot better than paying $6 parking at Reliant Stadium once. It is math skills like these that allow CFISD board members to float $80 million stadiums by the voters.

Wow, I think I actually appreciate HISD's fiscal restraint, compared to these guys.

[Chris]

Spring ISD also used PBK Architects in Bailey and Claughton Middle Schools and Burchett and McNabb Elementary Schools. They are a wonderful firm who design schools with very attractive exteriors with much detail to make them look very extravagant. Maybe Cy-Fair ISD should just experiment with another firm atleast once. SHW Architects designed the new Dekaney HS and Carl Wunsche HS in Spring ISD. SHW also designed Klein ISD's Klein Collins HS, Korhville ES, Metzler ES, Kreinhop ES and McDougle ES. Attractive schools are nice to have in a school district, but PBK isn't the only firm in Houston that can do a great job. Maybe if they experiment with another Architectural Firm they can save money.

[Jedijake]

True, I never had heard complaints until I read this board. I think with nearly a million residents, opinions will run the spectrum.

I understand every complaint about the stadium. I have to admit, I'm not a HUGE football fan (strange for a high school teacher?), but then again I tend to look at the educational facilities. This bond will have more opinions involved and I see the district having to explain the Berry Center issue, but it will have no problems passing on account of building new schools.

But I supposed I'm spoiled and shouldn't talk on behalf of taxpayers. I have no right to do so. While I teachin in Cy-Fair, I live in the Tomball ISD and they just passed a bond that will build a new elementary school about a mile from where we live.

[RedScare]

Join the club. I don't live there either. If they want to pay it, more power to them. I can't begrudge you wanting the best possible office to work in, either.

[musicman]

Join the club. I don't live there either. If they want to pay it, more power to them. I can't begrudge you wanting the best possible office to work in, either.

LOL

[Jedijake]

LOL-yeah I guess that is a good point.

[H-Town Man]

did you decide how the beautiful the reliant stadium, the capital or city hall looked? is the PUBLIC deciding how it looks or is the SCHOOL district deciding in this instance? I personally would prefer that money would be spent directly on education rather than decorations for a school

The school district offers up a suggestion, and the public decides by voting on it. What gets built is a reflection of the public will, albeit an imperfect one. The same is true with capitols, city halls, and other govt. buildings.

Leaving aside the issue of sports for a moment, your idea that the beauty of a building is just "decorations" and has nothing to do with education seems amiss. Beautiful educational buildings glorify learning. The impact on education is not direct, but there is an impact. I went to a college where the whole campus was done in gothic architecture, and almost every student who has ever gone there will tell you that it makes a difference. It says that something serious and important is going on within these walls. Something rarefied, even. I don't expect any Houston schools to start using gothic architecture, but I am convinced that quality architecture in a school building affects the educational experience.

[hbcu]

ain't much revenue going through the stadium.....half of the schools in the district suck at football and hardly have many alumni to even reach half the capacity of the stadium...outside of Cy-Fair, JV, Cy-Creek, Langham Creek and Falls, the rest of the schools are less than 10 years old...

plus, alot of the parents of those newer schools hail from older areas and are loyal to their high schools still....believe me, if Yates or Willowridge is 10-0 and kicking butt and the game is jampacked...I want to watch that...

CFISD has NEVER been a basketball district and never will so the Berry Center is nothing but a glorified graduation center..

I wish my alma mater, Prairie View, would spend like CFISD....our tightwad friends in college station won't even help acknowledge athletics over there and we are forced to play in a horrible stadium but Waller ISD and Cy-Fair ISD have new palaces...

[T 2 THA C]

ain't much revenue going through the stadium.....half of the schools in the district suck at football and hardly have many alumni to even reach half the capacity of the stadium...outside of Cy-Fair, JV, Cy-Creek, Langham Creek and Falls, the rest of the schools are less than 10 years old...

plus, alot of the parents of those newer schools hail from older areas and are loyal to their high schools still....believe me, if Yates or Willowridge is 10-0 and kicking butt and the game is jampacked...I want to watch that...

CFISD has NEVER been a basketball district and never will so the Berry Center is nothing but a glorified graduation center..

I wish my alma mater, Prairie View, would spend like CFISD....our tightwad friends in college station won't even help acknowledge athletics over there and we are forced to play in a horrible stadium but Waller ISD and Cy-Fair ISD have new palaces...

When I went to Cy Springs we had a pretty good basketball team and went to state, and I know Cy- Falls and Langham Creek to have some pretty good basketball teams. I remember trveling to Aisd center on aldine Mail route.

[musicman]

but I am convinced that quality architecture in a school building affects the educational experience.

LOL i'm not sure anything CYFair builds in quality architecture.

[mrfootball]

They're schools, musicman.

As for taxes. As a taxpayer, I'm more irate about having to pay Metro and Port of Houston taxes. WTF does the Port need our money? Should this not be self-sufficient with all of the petro dollars out there? Public-private fleecing. And Metro? 99.5% of the people out here don't use it. Don't want it. Why should we pay for it? You can go further...what about the Hospital district? Most of that money goes towards treating illegal aliens. Why should we be forced to pay for these people? I'd much prefer that care go towards legal residents and citizens. What about Public Housing? Why should we be forced to support and subsidize able-bodied people? Should we be building Class A housing for them? Why?

At least with the Berry Center, we had the option of voting for this and the local community is more likely to enjoy its benefits. The above items just get lumped in with our taxes each year.

I've heard very few complaints about the cost of the Berry center. I think one person, residing in the district expressed a negative comment - on the flipside, I've heard dozens praising the Berry. So take it for what its worth - from the people who pay the taxes and live in the District. Again, you have three quarters of a million people living in CFISD, you're bound to hear some complaints. Nobody talks about how much money the district (the 3rd largest in the State and one of the largest in the country) saved by redesigning a strip center to become its administrative offices. A district this large could've built lavish administrative facilities, but instead chose a more cost effective alternative. The Berry Center...expensive as it is, is 5 facilities in one.

Nobody likes taxes, and most people like to see something in return for what they pay for...with the Berry, you get that. It is simply the best in its class, anywhere in the country.

[CDeb]

And Metro? 99.5% of the people out here don't use it. Don't want it. Why should we pay for it?

Umm, quite a few people either use the park & ride (operated by Metro) or the 290 HOV lane (maintainted by Metro). Even if you don't, if you are a commuter along 290 into Houston like me, you benefit from the fact that others are using it and not making your drive on 290 even worse than it is.

And plenty of people in Cypress would like to see commuter rail or other commute options out their way, and I think it's more than the 0.5% share that you claim. If it's going to happen, it's most likely going to be done by Metro.