We Know $807 Million Is A Lot Of Money But

[pineda]

Cy-Fair's new bond referendum

[musicman]

if justification can be made, i'll understand but most of the time, the specifics aren't addressed. i'm sure a mega-stadium is in the works with several conference areas do that it can be called a multi-purpose facility.

[CDeb]

So how much are my taxes going up? Or will the bonds be repayed with existing tax revenue?

[RedScare]

6.5 cents per $100 of valuation, a small price to pay to replace that crumbling dump known as the Berry Center with a shiny new football and basketball complex.

[mrfootball]

Looks like High Schools #11 and #12 are included in this bond issue.

Construction costs have gone up, understandibly $90 million for a High school to be built several years from now is probably an accurate number.

They're going to have to build new schools If people don't want their kids going to Plano-esque 4,000-5,000 student mega schools.

[musicman]

Looks like High Schools #11 and #12 are included in this bond issue.

Construction costs have gone up, understandibly $90 million for a High school to be built several years from now is probably an accurate number.

They're going to have to build new schools If people don't want their kids going to Plano-esque 4,000-5,000 student mega schools.

building a high school is fine, building a taj mahal isn't. are you a coach by chance mrfootball?

[Chris]

Construction prices for new schools have gone up considerably. $90 million is alot for a new school. A few short years ago Katy ISD built Seven Lakes High School for $77 million, and in 2001 Klein ISD built Klein Collins High School for a low $56 million. 10-35 million dollars is a big jump from 3-6 years. Can it be the architects and construction companies Cy Fair ISD uses. I mean lets be for real, all of their new facilities look very very expensive-Berry Center, Cy-Springs HS, Cy-Woods HS, Cy-Ranch HS, Cy-Lakes HS, and even some of their Elementary and Intermediate Campuses. It didn't even cost that much to build Spring ISD's new Dekaney HS and that is what a state of the art school looks like.

[musicman]

Construction prices for new schools have gone up considerably. $90 million is alot for a new school. A few short years ago Katy ISD built Seven Lakes High School for $77 million, and in 2001 Klein ISD built Klein Collins High School for a low $56 million. 10-35 million dollars is a big jump from 3-6 years. Can it be the architects and construction companies Cy Fair ISD uses. I mean lets be for real, all of their new facilities look very very expensive-Berry Center, Cy-Springs HS, Cy-Woods HS, Cy-Ranch HS, Cy-Lakes HS, and even some of their Elementary and Intermediate Campuses. It didn't even cost that much to build Spring ISD's new Dekaney HS and that is what a state of the art school looks like.

looks like the "Cy" district is spending too much IMO. i'm hope their residents vote against it.

[chamberscreek]

As musicman stated, we've been burned once by intentional deception with the Berry Center being presented as an "educational support facility," so forgive me if this Cy-Fair resident is skeptical. I have no doubt we need more schools and infrastructure in this area -- I simply have very little confidence in the ability of CFISD to be efficient about it. My vote defaults to No, and I'll leave it to the CFISD board to convince me otherwise.

[musicman]

As musicman stated, we've been burned once by intentional deception with the Berry Center being presented as an "educational support facility," so forgive me if this Cy-Fair resident is skeptical. I have no doubt we need more schools and infrastructure in this area -- I simply have very little confidence in the ability of CFISD to be efficient about it. My vote defaults to No, and I'll leave it to the CFISD board to convince me otherwise.

i hope the rest of the district is thinking. stuff passes in HISD frequently and i just don't understand how. this summer they are feeding children breakfast and lunch even while no school is going on. just CRAZY.

[Mom22Blessings]

Don't forget this tidbit:

<<One of the Priority 3 items

[mrfootball]

I agree, I don't think this district puts enough of a squeeze on its contracters to lower their bids. Not sure if that $90 million per HS includes site acquisition costs or not. Nor do I know where they're going to put them. I assume they'll go in the rapidly growing Western part of the District.

With that said, there are going to be an estimated 750,000 people living in this district by next year, its been one of the fastest growing areas in the country - and it's going to keep growing after that, with Bridgeland and the other new communities going up off of Fry Rd (b/w 290 & 529).

* Relative to the recently announced Bond package, The Berry Center looks like a bargain now at $81 million, serving a district with 12 High Schools (they'll probably need to upgrade Pridgeon soon or build another Berry ).

[Houston19514]

Don't forget this tidbit:

<<One of the Priority 3 items

[Houston19514]

There's an interesting presentation on Cypress-Fairbanks ISD's website about school construction costs. To summarize regarding high schools (these are all in $/square foot):

The Texas median cost of a High School in 2004 was $111.60. That same school will cost $158.00 today:

Assuming a Bid Date in February 2004:

Inflation from 2004 to 2005 @ 9.64% = $123.52

Inflation from 2005 to 2006 @ 11.16%= $139.04

Inflation from 2006 to 2007 @ 12% = $158.00

Costs of other area High Schools:

Pearland ISD Bid February 2007 $150.32

Humble ISD Bid December 2006 $145.91

Costs of Cypress Fairbanks ISD High Schools:

Cypress Ranch HS Bid Feb 2006 $123.23

[RedScare]

That is a misleading statistic, likely prepared for the CFISD trustees by their architect. The cost per square foot may look competitive, but they leave out the fact that they are overdesigning the schools. DeKaney HS cost $55 million for a 2,500 student capacity facility, or $22,000 per student. Cy Fair is proposing to spend $90 million for a 3,000 student school, or $30,000 per student...36% more.

This is overkill, promoted at taxpayer expense by the architect. Look to see who funded the last Cy Fair bond election to find out who.

[Chris]

Read the article carefully and you will see that "Priority 3" items are NOT included in the proposed bond issue.

In order to do any sort of reasonable, worthwhile comparison, don't you have to consider the student capacity of the various structures built/proposed? For example, DeKaney High School is designed for a maximum attendance of 2,500. Cy-Fair appears to build their high schools for a maximum attendance of 3,000.

Even though Dekaney has a 2,500 capacity, The facility is 486,000 square feet which is about the same or close to what Cy Fair ISD builds their high Schools. Klein Collins is 555,000 square feet, and is a physically attractive school and still cost less than $60 million to build, even though it was just 6 years ago.

[Houston19514]

Even though Dekaney has a 2,500 capacity, The facility is 486,000 square feet which is about the same or close to what Cy Fair ISD builds their high Schools. Klein Collins is 555,000 square feet, and is a physically attractive school and still cost less than $60 million to build, even though it was just 6 years ago.

The contract to construct Klein Collins was awarded EIGHT years ago. The contracts to construct the two high schools under discussion in Cy-Fair are not likely to be awarded until probably at least 2 years from now. So we're talking about a ten year time difference. Look at the information on Cy-Fair's website.

In 1997, the Texas median school construction cost for high schools was $77.20 per square foot.

In 2007, the Texas median school construction cost for high schools was $158.00 per square foot.

As I posted earlier, the cost of Cypress Ranch HS (Bid Feb 2006) is running at $123.23 per square foot.

For the two new Cy-Fair high schools, they are estimating construction costs not in 2007, but in 2009, at the earliest, I would imagine.

As to size, I cannot find anything authoritative, but from what I have found, it appears the proposed new Cy-Fair high schools will be closer in square footage to Klein Collins than to DeKaney.

[hbcu]

dance floors? come on.....

I'm surprised indoor facilities haven't made its way to Houston yet like they are in Dallas....but with so much fast growth and "equality" in schools I doubt they ever get one...

there's already two new high schools coming up...one off Fry and another off Little York and Greenhouse I think...I would assume 11 would be further in Bridgelands and 12 would be near the Waller ISD border in Fairfield to take advantage of the growth out there...

If one isn't planned near Bridgelands...I assume one would pop up near Cy-Creek to take advantage of the growth from 249 and the Beltway towards the Tomball and Klein borders

[Mom22Blessings]

Yes I read it. But even considering floors like that is total stupidity.

(Even if it isn't included in the first amount)

[mrfootball]

Aren't special dance floors and things like that supposed be the sort of thing that's provided by booster organizations?

[FilioScotia]

So how much are my taxes going up?

The higher the better. Look at the upside, and yes there is an upside. Higher local property taxes give you a bigger federal income tax deduction next April. Nothing's all bad. Even higher local taxes.

[RedScare]

The higher the better. Look at the upside, and yes there is an upside. Higher local property taxes give you a bigger federal income tax deduction next April. Nothing's all bad. Even higher local taxes.

I love your math. The highest tax rate is currently 35%. The school taxes are merely a deduction, not a credit. So, if your school taxes rose $1000, you would pay $350 less in federal taxes. But, you are still out the $1000. Conversely, if the school tax did not rise at all, you would pay $350 in federal tax, leaving you with $650 to spend on accounting classes.

[musicman]

I love your math. ....Conversely, if the school tax did not rise at all, you would pay $350 in federal tax, leaving you with $650 to spend on accounting classes.

lol

[FilioScotia]

I love your math. The highest tax rate is currently 35%. The school taxes are merely a deduction, not a credit. So, if your school taxes rose $1000, you would pay $350 less in federal taxes. But, you are still out the $1000. Conversely, if the school tax did not rise at all, you would pay $350 in federal tax, leaving you with $650 to spend on accounting classes.

I know the difference between a deduction and a credit. I was only saying that the local tax CAN help you on your income tax, by giving you a slightly bigger itemized deduction.

Nobody's school taxes will go up 1000 dollars. Even a tax increase of ten cents per $100 of assessed value would only raise the tax bill 200 dollars on a 200 thousand dollar house. You'd have to live in a million dollar house for your taxes to go up a thousand dollars, and I don't think there are very many million dollar houses in Cy-Fair ISD.

But I do agree completely with your larger point, which is that the CFISD board is guilty of profligate out of control spending on very expensive capital improvements, some of which are highly questionable from the standpoint of "need", and the board doesn't appear to care what we the people out here think about it.

The question is: what are "we the people' going to do about it? The answer is nothing. We're going to silently roll over on our backs and let them keep doing it to us. Isn't that what we always do? When was the last time CFISD board members were not re-elected over the way the board does business? And school board members are subject to recall elections, if people get angry enough. That's not bloody likely.

I've always said that if America's founding fathers could have seen ahead to what taxation WITH representation looks like, they wouldn't have said a word about George III's taxation WITHOUT representation.

It's all a moot point for me. Our kids are grown and gone and we can't itemize anymore. We're now just living for the day when I can retire and move us the hell out of the CFISD, and that's just one year, ten months and 2 weeks from now.

[RedScare]

I only used the highest tax rate to show the maximum deduction one could hope for. Most CFISD residents will get even less of a deduction, more like 25%. It matters not. The point is that money is still coming out of their pocket. The tax deduction only reduces the amount coming out of your pocket by 25-35%.

As for the profligate spending, you are correct. School board trustees love to build stuff anyway. However, when big architecture firms and big construction firms start wowing them with some of the "cool stuff" they can build, it goes out of control. The last bond election in Cy Fair was funded by several groups looking to make money on it, but 2 stood out, not just for the size of their donation, but for the fact that they got a bunch of the work. One was an architecture firm, the other a contractor.

Design fees for these schools can run 6 to 8%. Total design fees for an $807 million bond program could net over $60 million to the lucky architecture firm that gets the work. Since design work is not usually awarded to the lowest bidder, but on other, more subjective criteria, it is a wise investment for an architecture firm to fund the pro bond election campaign in a school district where it gets a lot of work.

Will the residents rebel? Apparently not. Another CF resident posted earlier that $81 million for a football stadium was "a bargain". My guess is that those that like expensive school toys will stay and pay the tax. Those that do not will quietly sell and move to a lower tax district. I do not have kids, so I would not live in Cy Fair or Katy's ultra high tax school districts on a bet. But, for those with kids, having neighbors help finance their kids' overdone schools is probably a neat gig.

[H-Town Man]

The question is: what are "we the people' going to do about it?

Maybe take pride in the beautiful facilities that your community has produced, and that your children are being educated in?

I would love to have heard it if some of you folks were around when the state capitol was built:

"Did you hear that they are giving all the legislators carved wood chairs? Carved wood chairs, when simple benches would have done just fine!"

"Yeah, and did you know that they are building the whole thing out of pink granite?"

"They are building it out of WHAT?!"

"Yep, the whole thing is ornate pink granite. It's even going to have a dome."

"Oh my freaking lord! I just freaking s*** on myself! What's next? What are they going to build next on the backs of us poor taxpayers, after this Taj Mahal goes up in Austin? Somebody has to put a stop to this...."

[musicman]

Will the residents rebel? Apparently not. Another CF resident posted earlier that $81 million for a football stadium was "a bargain".

i think he's a football coach there.

Maybe take pride in the beautiful facilities that your community has produced, and that your children are being educated in?

most parents i know are concerned about the education itself, not the "beautiful facilities that your community has produced"

[RedScare]

Perhaps, the way the good citizens of Fort Worth reacted upon completion of the Tarrant County Courthouse?

The Tarrant County Courthouse, completed in 1895, is fashioned of pink granite from central Texas and took over two years to build. Upon completion, even though the project had come in almost 20% under budget, the citizens of the county were so outraged by the perceived extravagance that, at the next election, the County Judge and the entire Commissioners Court were voted out of office.

[H-Town Man]

most parents i know are concerned about the education itself, not the "beautiful facilities that your community has produced"

It's not an either/or thing, musicman.

Perhaps, the way the good citizens of Fort Worth reacted upon completion of the Tarrant County Courthouse?

That's interesting, I never knew that. Most Texas counties took tremendous pride in their courthouses and stretched the budgets to build them. Schools too were something that communities often tried to make resplendent. That era of civic pride seems to be gone.

[FilioScotia]

It's not an either/or thing, musicman.

That's interesting, I never knew that. Most Texas counties took tremendous pride in their courthouses and stretched the budgets to build them. Schools too were something that communities often tried to make resplendent. That era of civic pride seems to be gone.

If you can point to one single thing that an 80 million dollar sports and athletic complex contributes to the quality of education in Cy-Fair schools I would love to hear it.

Does anyone around here know the story of what happened in the Spring Branch ISD back in the 90s? It seems that in the 50s, 60s and 70s, SBISD couldn't stop building schools to accommodate all the families moving into that area of Houston and the Memorial villages. It went from one high school to four in just a few years.

Then all of a sudden, in the 80s, they noticed that enrollment in their schools was declining precipitously. A study showed that all those families who moved there 20 and 30 years earlier had run out of school age children. It also showed that almost no new child-bearing couples were moving in to replace them, because the Spring Branch area was no longer the semi-suburban "bedroom" community it once was. It had become just one more crowded neighborhood deep inside a crowded city, and not an especially desirable place to raise a family.

The declining enrollment forced SBISD to close several schools, including one high school. I predict the same thing will happen in Cy-Fair in about 25 years, because this district is already showing signs of approaching critical mass.

I think the same demographic disaster that hit Spring Branch will be repeated in Cy-Fair a generation from now, and it will come to pass that some of these resplendent educational palaces will be closed and sold to developers. It's also probable that the successful buyers will probably be related to the Superintendent and some school board members. Nothing surprises me out here anymore.