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Pumapayam

2007-2008 Crude Oil Cost.

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The discussion about solar panels is interesting, especially since for the past week or so I've been thinking about and researching the benefits of having solar panels installed on my house. Last Saturday, I had a solar energy consultant from a local solar firm come to my house in the SF Bay Area, to whom I had previously provided my electric bills, conduct a site visit and give me an estimate for a solar installation. My house has excellent south/southwest orientation with nothing in the way that casts any shade. The house itself is a 3 bedroom 3 bath ranch, approximately 1700 sq. ft. The house uses gas for heat and hot water. Electricity is used for all appliances including the range. We don't need or have air conditioning. The estimated cost of installing solar panels (the final cost after federal and CA state credits are applied) is approximately 10,000.00. My electric bills are not high (for the 12 month period beginning in April 2007 through the most recent bill ending April 2008), the lowest monthly bill was $32.01, the highest monthly bill was $42.08.

Even though he would like to sell me the solar panels, the solar energy consultant made it clear that it would take it would take a very long time for me to recoup the installation costs. In part this is because my electric use is so low. He noted that were I to switch from a gas water heater to an on-demand tankless water heater, the costs might be recovered more quickly. Still, he noted, it would take a long time to recoup the initial installation costs.

The other reason is that PG & G ( Pacific Gas and Electric Company), my provider does not pay its customers for the excess electricity produced. It more electricity is produced than is used, then the customer has a zero balance, but the customer never receives a credit if more electricity is produced that consumed.

So while my spouse and I are still considering installing solar, if we decide to do so, it will be for environmental reasons not economic ones.

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The other reason is that PG & G ( Pacific Gas and Electric Company), my provider does not pay its customers for the excess electricity produced. It more electricity is produced than is used, then the customer has a zero balance, but the customer never receives a credit if more electricity is produced that consumed.

So while my spouse and I are still considering installing solar, if we decide to do so, it will be for environmental reasons not economic ones.

So lemme get this straight... the PG&G will not give you a credit for the electricity that you produce, but they will sell what you produce to someone else (and make a profit, since they didn't have to produce it).

That doesn't sound proper.

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So lemme get this straight... the PG&G will not give you a credit for the electricity that you produce, but they will sell what you produce to someone else (and make a profit, since they didn't have to produce it).

That doesn't sound proper.

That's right. Proper or not, that's what happens. P G & E (I made a typing mistake in my first email message) does not give the consumer a credit for the electricity s/he produces and apparently makes a profit on selling it to another consumer. It may not seem acceptable, but that's what P G & E does. I even inquired if I might give the excess electricity produced to someone else. I also asked if there was any program whereby the excess electricity could be banked and awarded to needy consumers, sort of like a sick day bank that some employers have. But the answer was "no". The excess electricity consumers produce is returned to P G & E to do with what they like, which is probably sell and profit from it. And so it goes.

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That's right. Proper or not, that's what happens. P G & E (I made a typing mistake in my first email message) does not give the consumer a credit for the electricity s/he produces and apparently makes a profit on selling it to another consumer. It may not seem acceptable, but that's what P G & E does. I even inquired if I might give the excess electricity produced to someone else. I also asked if there was any program whereby the excess electricity could be banked and awarded to needy consumers, sort of like a sick day bank that some employers have. But the answer was "no". The excess electricity consumers produce is returned to P G & E to do with what they like, which is probably sell and profit from it. And so it goes.

Wow ... well, like you said you were doing it for environmental purposes. But still ... if a lot of people are sending excess energy to them, they could be racking up.

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$130 is creeping so close now.

We are not even to the point were we are running low on crude. Sure we are passed the peak, but we are still pumping out as much as we were 10 years ago. This is getting stupid.

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$130 is creeping so close now.

We are not even to the point were we are running low on crude. Sure we are passed the peak, but we are still pumping out as much as we were 10 years ago. This is getting stupid.

At this rate we wont even be able to cut the grass. Some would love that idea but seriously. I am afraid to spill even the slightest drop of gas as now it seems like such a precious item.

Santo cielo! :mellow:

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At this rate we wont even be able to cut the grass. Some would love that idea but seriously. I am afraid to spill even the slightest drop of gas as now it seems like such a precious item.

Santo cielo! :mellow:

Personally...? I could forgo cutting grass. I kinda like the ragged look but don't know if it's acceptable in my neigborhood.

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Sure you can. My mower doesn't have a motor, it's the old fashioned reel type. Works great, nice and quiet, no exhaust, and no gas costs.

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Personally...? I could forgo cutting grass. I kinda like the ragged look but don't know if it's acceptable in my neigborhood.

I reel at the idea of using a manual grass mower (like going back to the dark ages) but some people use them?!

Now that would require some real patience. May be a good idea if you have a small yard like in a courtyard situation, only.

This may guy seem silly but we will have to get more creative to save fuel. (must be a wig, whats up) ^_^

bike-mower-2.jpg

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I've heard that the manual mowers are hell if you have a thick St. Augustine lawn.

I'm not so concerned about using gasoline in my mower. My lot isn't huge so it takes me a couple of months to go through a gallon. Not exactly a high cost area for me.

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If you take care of the mower and cut every week it's no more than a decent workout. Nothing wrong with that. My piece of grass is too small to warrant anything more.

I miss the days looking at the crude price display at MMP when it was around $40. If only I knew then what I knew now...

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$130 is creeping so close now.

We are not even to the point were we are running low on crude. Sure we are passed the peak, but we are still pumping out as much as we were 10 years ago. This is getting stupid.

Something's getting stupid, but I don't think it's the same "this" that you're referring to. Global oil production increased 15.7% in the ten years between 1999 and 2008.

Source: U.S. Department of Energy

And get over your zero-as-the-last-digit fetish. It's really weak.

Edited by TheNiche

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And get over your zero-as-the-last-digit fetish. It's really weak.

Niche, take a pill and relax, no one is asking you to respond, just adding to the post as the price of crude increases. You don't like me rounding up and predicting to $130, I encouraging you to start your own topic and take over. It is harmless. Why you bring focus to something really irrelevant to the subject at hand, boggles my mind. <_<

With all do respect, let's not digress, and I will post the current cost as I see it, ending with a zero, prime, composite, or natural number. :rolleyes:

We are back below $125 btw after congress is thinking about suspending SPR hording.

Edited by Pumapayam

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I've heard that the manual mowers are hell if you have a thick St. Augustine lawn.

I'm not so concerned about using gasoline in my mower. My lot isn't huge so it takes me a couple of months to go through a gallon. Not exactly a high cost area for me.

Try won't work. That guy on the bicycle-lawn mower contraption... he'd make it about 3 inches into my yard... and then major stoppage. And then I see battery powered, electric lawn mowers... PLEASE. In a matter of a short time, St. Augustine will kill those too... You need at least a 6.0 HP, gas.

Oil is a bargain at this price. It really is. Southwest, and other airlines out there... you should hedge as much as you can against this current price, because we're going to see $150, $200, real soon.

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Try won't work. That guy on the bicycle-lawn mower contraption... he'd make it about 3 inches into my yard... and then major stoppage. And then I see battery powered, electric lawn mowers... PLEASE. In a matter of a short time, St. Augustine will kill those too... You need at least a 6.0 HP, gas.

True! and if you have lower back & shoulder probs like moi, pushing a mower will just kill ya. :(

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My sentiments exactly.

Niche, take a pill and relax, no one is asking you to respond, just adding to the post as the price of crude increases. You don't like me rounding up and predicting to $130, I encouraging you to start your own topic and take over.

No, it is you that needs the chill pill. You've blown the whole matter out of the water with exaggerations and a nonsensical numerological fetish.

And if you didn't agree with me, you didn't have to respond, either...but you did, and I won't complain that you did because its a frickin' message board, man.

I also won't start a duplicate topic competing with yours...because its a frickin' message board, man. This thread isn't yours to begin with.

Why you bring focus to something really irrelevant to the subject at hand, boggles my mind. <_<

Why you post misinformation boggles my mind.

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I swear when I went to bed last night all the stations along Richey Road and Ella were about $3.49. This morning they were all $3.55 or higher. I snuck over to Sam's (my sister hates their gas, but she's a Chevron snob) and theirs was still $3.489.

Yay!

(Take that with a note of caution ... giving a yay over $3.49 per gallon gas is kinda sick when you think about it).

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(Take that with a note of caution ... giving a yay over $3.49 per gallon gas is kinda sick when you think about it).

Yup, I filled up last night after I figured the next average price jump would level off around $3.59 next week. By Sunday, you'd be hard pressed to find named brand gas for $3.49.

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I do feel the rapid increase of the cost oil; affecting gasoline/groceries/airline tickets is an important matter. This alarming trend is not affecting me financially . . . yet. The daily increase is above and beyond what some people can afford.

I recall seeing an iReport on CNN.com about people not able to filled up their tanks anymore, simply putting in $5 here and there. That $5 means something to people, and they don't have anymore to fill up, and little by little, they fill up less and less.

Talking about it, no matter how repetitive it may seem, is allowed.

When it hits $127, expect a post, if it goes below $120, ditto.

b7j8fk.jpg

Check out the video above, gas was at $3.55 at that station and jump 30 cents to $3.85 while the new crew was there. People already are waiting in long lines to get "bargain" $3.55 gas.

A small taste of things to come. I feel sorry for the mom talking about deciding whether to get a gallon of "gas or milk".

Edited by Pumapayam

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Yup, I filled up last night after I figured the next average price jump would level off around $3.59 next week. By Sunday, you'd be hard pressed to find named brand gas for $3.49.

On that site I use, it has some places with $3.33 per gallon. But it's probably mixed with water (or carrot juice) so probably not something you'd want in your tank.

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I do feel the rapid increase of the cost oil; This alarming trend is not affecting me financially
so you feel the rapid increase but yet it's not affecting you? :rolleyes:

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Talking about it, no matter how repetitive it may seem, is allowed.

When it hits $127, expect a post, if it goes below $120, ditto.

I don't mean to say that you shouldn't be talking about it. I mean to say that you shouldn't spread misinformation and that your numerological approach to what contitutes a threshold worthy of note is totally inane. That's all.

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I wonder just how much of this is gouging?

I mean, if there is so called 'plenty' of oil in the ground and (as someone mentioned) oil production is increasing over the last 10-15 years, then there shouldn't be a run-up in prices.

Sounds like something fishy.

But, on the other hand, if the days of plentiful and cheap oil are behind us, and production is barely meeting demand, then it is going to get a LOT worse. I read something this week predicting $150-$200 barrel oil in the next couple of years.

Hello $7/gallon (or more) gasoline ... and probably the end of my driving days.

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so you feel the rapid increase but yet it's not affecting you? :rolleyes:

Thankfully, I do make a very comfortable salary, so "$100+" increase a month in gas/groceries cost is a "non issue" as far as me going in debt or choosing food for fuel.

But yes, I can tell when a 2007 $35 fill up is now 2008 $50. . . next one bud? :rolleyes:

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But, on the other hand, if the days of plentiful and cheap oil are behind us, and production is barely meeting demand, then it is going to get a LOT worse. I read something this week predicting $150-$200 barrel oil in the next couple of years.

I read that analyst's prediction too, and the investors are drooling over the potential to double there investments.

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Thankfully, I do make a very comfortable salary, so "$100+" increase a month in gas/groceries cost is a "non issue" as far as me going in debt or choosing food for fuel.

But yes, I can tell when a 2007 $35 fill up is now 2008 $50. . . next one bud? :rolleyes:

copy whining.

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I read that analyst's prediction too, and the investors are drooling over the potential to double there investments.

Then buy some oil stock. Hedge yourself.

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I wonder just how much of this is gouging?

I mean, if there is so called 'plenty' of oil in the ground and (as someone mentioned) oil production is increasing over the last 10-15 years, then there shouldn't be a run-up in prices.

Sounds like something fishy.

But, on the other hand, if the days of plentiful and cheap oil are behind us, and production is barely meeting demand, then it is going to get a LOT worse. I read something this week predicting $150-$200 barrel oil in the next couple of years.

Hello $7/gallon (or more) gasoline ... and probably the end of my driving days.

With all the so called experts screaming "recession recession" and the others screaming the drop in the dollar value, the value of a barrel of oil is just following their lead. So perhaps it's not the price of oil has increase as much as the value of the dollar has decreased as much or just a combination of the two.

The so called energy crisis of the early 70's, those of you old enough to remember gas lines miles in length, only being able to buy fuel on odd and even days, (usually this was done by license plate number), and gas prices jumped from 30 cents/gallon to over a dollar almost overnight. Stations were running out of gas daily all over the place. It was chaotic. A 300% increase, I don't think we've seen that increase this time yet. So Puma can just keep on changing the title to this thread till his fingers bleed, cause it isn't over yet. Well was there really a shortage as was repeated over and over again? Absolutely not. There was plenty of petroleum available (and as far as that goes there still is), but those who provided it back in the 70's had decided they weren't being paid enough for it. There was other results that included a "windfall profits tax" levied on our domestic oil producers, a nationwide speed limit of 55 mph (which, in fact, was repealed twenty years later), and several government bureaucracies established to force or compel us to use less energy. Is that what they are trying to do? Who knows. Most people, when asked about the connection, will readily agree that the 1973 Oil Embargo was not the result of a real energy shortage, but assert that it made us aware of the limitations of the supply of petroleum and brought us a new consciousness of the realities of energy limitations. Well that "wolf cry" has been heard already. Is this so underlying tactic by the "global warmers" to decrease the burning of fossil fuels by economic attrition? Who knows.

What I do know is this, I turn down contracts daily for drilling, just because I am so booked up I can't do anything else. pipelines are flowing at max capacity to the refineries. Haul trucks are back-logged for weeks for areas that have to haul there oil to the storage tanks. You can barely get a transport to haul off loads if you are not on a pre-callout basis, and under contract with a transporter. If you were an independent producer that had a couple of wells flowing and you needed you storage tanks sold off, to increase your available volume, and you called Gulf-mark for instance and asked for two or three 100 bbls transports to empty your tanks, without pre-arranged contractual responsibility, they'd laugh at you and put you on a waiting list. They are stretched that thin. They only have X number of trucks and X number of drivers available with enough DOT hours to meet what they already have on paper. It's unreal right now. I have pre-purchased fifty million dollars worth of 4 1/2" P110 casing just so I will have pipe available to me to complete wells as I drill them. If there is a shortage of anything it's pipe. Good quality casing is hard to come by. And even the junk Chinese stuff is getting rare. I lease a 10 acre space at Tuboscope's Yard off of Wallisville Rd just to keep the stuff on hand. It's crazy as all get out.

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I don't mean to say that you shouldn't be talking about it. I mean to say that you shouldn't spread misinformation and that your numerological approach to what contitutes a threshold worthy of note is totally inane. That's all.

Why yes, human nature is inane. What a novel concept. What is equally inane is some people's obsession with humanity's natural inclination to use even numbers to signify things. I'll bet you scream at the TV when they announce the 2 minute warning, and refuse to redeem your Rockets ticket for a free Big Mac when they score 100. Why can't people just be happy with a baker's dozen?

With all the so called experts screaming "recession recession" and the others screaming the drop in the dollar value, the value of a barrel of oil is just following their lead.

These would actually be competing forces, with the recession exerting downward pressure and the dollar pushing the price upward. FWIW, US gasoline consumption has decreased year over year every month since October, but worldwide consumption continues to increase.

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Why yes, human nature is inane. What a novel concept. What is equally inane is some people's obsession with humanity's natural inclination to use even numbers to signify things. I'll bet you scream at the TV when they announce the 2 minute warning, and refuse to redeem your Rockets ticket for a free Big Mac when they score 100. Why can't people just be happy with a baker's dozen?

I don't watch televised sports (unless I'm highly intoxicated), so no, I don't scream at the tube on a two-minute warning. And I don't purchase Rockets tickets or eat Big Macs, so that's not much of an issue, either.

Nevertheless, I do understand the importance of using particular numbers as marketing or to accentuate the rhetoric in political propaganda. I've perpetrated it before and will most assuredly do so again if it is in my best interests to exploit the inane masses. Having said that, I have a low tolerance for it when I'm conversing with people. I hold individuals to a higher standard.

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You sound like a hypocrite. I'm going to get a beer. I wonder if the price will be in even dollars?

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All I know is I am leaving West Virginia in about 6 hrs, to be back home in the good ole Lone Star State, will be good to be home. At least for a couple of weeks anyway, they should have my new locations built by then and will drag my but back up here. The Yawkey 137H horizontal up under Camp Chief Logan has gone really well and was a success, I will land the last of the 4 1/2 for these four legs in an hour or so. Making 650mcf/day without even a frac job. It will frac'd next week and expect it to do 2.5-3 mmcf/day, of 1200 BTU NG. Let the games begin. John Cabot can KMA! My cell phone has been ringing off the wall by his lackeys. Will do the Yawkey 151H, from the other side of the park, in a couple of weeks, by then Cabot better have his checkbook ready.

Dang it will be good to come home.

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All I know is I am leaving West Virginia in about 6 hrs, to be back home in the good ole Lone Star State, will be good to be home. At least for a couple of weeks anyway, they should have my new locations built by then and will drag my but back up here. The Yawkey 137H horizontal up under Camp Chief Logan has gone really well and was a success, I will land the last of the 4 1/2 for these four legs in an hour or so. Making 650mcf/day without even a frac job. It will frac'd next week and expect it to do 2.5-3 mmcf/day, of 1200 BTU NG. Let the games begin. John Cabot can KMA! My cell phone has been ringing off the wall by his lackeys. Will do the Yawkey 151H, from the other side of the park, in a couple of weeks, by then Cabot better have his checkbook ready.

Dang it will be good to come home.

Could someone translate? I think he's saying something about a natural gas well....

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You sound like a hypocrite. I'm going to get a beer. I wonder if the price will be in even dollars?

I will take advantage of the ignorant masses, but I don't wish to associate with ignorant individuals. That's all there is to it.

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Could someone translate? I think he's saying something about a natural gas well....

His directional drilling play in WV was a terrific success; he's getting high-quality natural gas and didn't even need to send dynamite down the hole to fracture up rocks, as is done in some gas fields to increase the rate of natural gas extraction. Cabot is a jackass, and Mark is gloating.

I'm not sure why Mark is telling us this (in this thread) but that's what is being said.

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His directional drilling play in WV was a terrific success; he's getting high-quality natural gas and didn't even need to send dynamite down the hole to fracture up rocks, as is done in some gas fields to increase the rate of natural gas extraction. Cabot is a jackass, and Mark is gloating.

I'm not sure why Mark is telling us this (in this thread) but that's what is being said.

You darn tootin' I am, I have 5 points in these wells. And we frac these soft shales with fresh water hydro-statically, it only takes about 4800 psi to break them down.

And I said something here because we were talking about this project a few pages back, I've been up here a month. This thread has metamorphosed so many times, I hardly think there's any harm.

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You darn tootin' I am, I have 5 points in these wells. And we frac these soft shales with fresh water hydro-statically, it only takes about 4800 psi to break them down.

And I said something here because we were talking about this project a few pages back, I've been up here a month. This thread has metamorphosed so many times, I hardly think there's any harm.

You oughta start a blog.

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You darn tootin' I am, I have 5 points in these wells. And we frac these soft shales with fresh water hydro-statically, it only takes about 4800 psi to break them down.

And I said something here because we were talking about this project a few pages back, I've been up here a month. This thread has metamorphosed so many times, I hardly think there's any harm.

So, what does "5 points in these wells" mean?

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Thankfully, I do make a very comfortable salary, so "$100+" increase a month in gas/groceries cost is a "non issue" as far as me going in debt or choosing food for fuel.

But yes, I can tell when a 2007 $35 fill up is now 2008 $50. . . next one bud? :rolleyes:

Puma I find this a real piece of work. You make this comfortable salary from what? I believe you said earlier you were working on an offshore installation design for BP. Do you think you'd be making this "comfortable salary" if it were not for these companies, you continually bash in this thread, and carry on and on and on about over the past year. I tell you what you do, walk into the Ops Managers office at BP, or better yet, walk into Bob Malone's office and tell him how fed up with all this you are and rant like you do here, and see how fast you're shown the door. Word to the wise, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Just my two cents, been wanting to say something for a while, and just haven't because I have been pretty bust in WV. But I am home now and figured what the heck. I'm done now, just curious to your thoughts on the price of oil now.

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Do you think you'd be making this "comfortable salary" if it were not for these companies, you continually bash in this thread, and carry on and on and on about over the past year.

My projects have been in the planning process for years before the oil spike, and the company itself has been around for over 20 years. Oil being over $100/barrel does not mean I get more money or work. We functioned fine with oil below $50/barrel as it was for most of the companies history.

I could be in the any number of professional fields and make a comfortable living without ties to the oil and gas industry. Just because I work along side other companies that are, does it mean I need to turn a blind eye to the situation. Should I be happy that other people are struggling with the increase in gas/food prices? Point is, if was was a low income earner, this would affect me more. I am VERY thankful for everything I have. I regret that other people are not more sensitve to others less fortunate.

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i'm having tartuffe flashbacks from high school.

Edited by musicman

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I am done with this thread. It is obvious the maturity in this forum is sinking and responses are digressing and does not even relate to the subject at hand, instead turns into a public personal issue with me rather than the general topic.

Use a PM is you have an issue with me.

I am starting to enjoy this place less and less because of certian people.

I submitted a request to lock this post since that seems to be the general concensus.

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I am done with this thread. It is obvious the maturity in this forum is sinking and responses are digressing and does not even relate to the subject at hand, instead turns into a public personal issue with me rather than the general topic.

Use a PM is you have an issue with me.

I am starting to enjoy this place less and less because of certian people.

I submitted a request to lock this post since that seems to be the general concensus.

Sounds reasonable to me.

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