Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
musicman

Interfaith

Recommended Posts

interfaith visits every new resident in the woodlands and surveys the people who dwell in each residence. according to interfaith figures and the woodlands development co. we were at 80K plus january 1, 2006. there were over 1200 new home sales in 2006. estimated figures i've seen floating around are close to 84,000.

interfaith does that? for what reason?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interfaith was created to introduce newcomers to community, charitable and religious activities in the woodlands. interfaith has been closely related to "worksource", senior citizen activities and volunteer opportunities in the woodlands. interfaith is the one item that has differentiated the woodlands from other idealistic communities that came about in the seventies. interfaith is nondenominational and attempts to focus on community activities that are common to all "love your neighbor first" churches. interfaith, consequently, gets a count of each new family.

certain master planned communities during the late sixties, early seventies, eliminated churches from the master plan because they felt religion was divisive. george and cynthia woods mitchell made a place for all religions by creating interfaith and leaving property available in each village for several churches of any denomination. the mitchell's realized that the grass roots dynamic of church/community activities was vital for a vibrant community.

there is a very informative chapter on interfaith in roger galatas' book on the woodlands, published by the urban land institute.

link to book

interfaith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
certain master planned communities during the late sixties, early seventies, eliminated churches from the master plan because they felt religion was divisive. george and cynthia woods mitchell made a place for all religions by creating interfaith and leaving property available in each village for several churches of any denomination. the mitchell's realized that the grass roots dynamic of church/community activities was vital for a vibrant community.

interesting...i guess i would be surprised if any master planned comm would leave space for a certain denomination vs. doing it this way. i wonder how the woodlands' agostics feel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting...i guess i would be surprised if any master planned comm would leave space for a certain denomination vs. doing it this way. i wonder how the woodlands' agostics feel?

[/quote

This happened to us within a month of moving in. My husband opened the door, he was rather offended by a religious organization soliciting, comparing them to Moonies. To us, religion is a very personal thing. They gave out this phone book, but it only had "interfaith" members in it. Whomever the persona was got all huffy and could believe my husband didn't want all their material.

Funny thing is, they had our name spelled slightly wrong. Then we noticed TONS of junk mail addressed to this mis-spelled name. Seems someone sells residents names to mailer companies. Currenlty we get about 5 pieces a week specifically from Interfaith...with the mis-spelled name.

I'm sure lots of people really enjoy this religious outreach though. To us it was just solicitation which is chronic up here.

Edited by KatieDidIt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This happened to us within a month of moving in. My husband opened the door, he was rather offended by a religious organization soliciting, comparing them to Moonies. They gave out this phone book, but it only had "interfaith" members in it. Whomever the persona was got all huffy and could believe my husband didn't want all their material.

Funny thing is, they had our name spelled slightly wrong. Then we noticed TONS of junk mail addressed to this mis-spelled name. Seems someone sells residents names to mailer companies.

I'm sure lots of people really enjoy this religious outreach though. To us it was just solicitation which is chronic up here.

depending on how the persentation is done, i can see how some would be surprised and possibly offended. to be added to a mailing list would sure irritate me!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...to be added to a mailing list would sure irritate me!!

Exactly! Religious organization or not ... and while we are on the topic of religion, why DO so many people assume people are religious (versus spiritual, or just flat out agnostic).

I am a spiritual person, but not religious (church, church doctrines, etc.) ... I sometimes get offended by religions that press it upon me. Especially those that want to 'save' me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is no different here than other places for junk mail. The churches send out advertisements mostly to those who visit their church and sign in, even one time. There are general mailings also. Not sure where that list comes from but it is not only churches, it is the association and many businesses. The phone book is one source.

The association has a pamphlet on how to reduce junk mail. After all is said and done, they recommend to just recycle it because you will never stop it altogether. Sometimes by mailbox is totally full with one days worth of junk mail. :(

And I have taken measures to stop a lot of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I understand. I get a lot of junk mail too at my mailbox and thankfully management has placed a large trash can there. I dump most of it in the can before taking it in the house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This happened to us within a month of moving in. My husband opened the door, he was rather offended by a religious organization (interfaith is nonreligious) soliciting (they do not ask for anything or sell anything), comparing them to Moonies. To us, religion is a very personal thing. They gave out this phone book, but it only had "interfaith" members in it (interfaith has no "members"). Whomever the persona was got all huffy and could believe my husband didn't want all their material (welcome material).

Funny thing is, they had our name spelled slightly wrong (their information comes from outside sources). Then we noticed TONS of junk mail addressed to this mis-spelled name. Seems someone sells residents names to mailer companies. Currenlty we get about 5 pieces a week specifically from Interfaith...with the mis-spelled name.

if your name was spelled wrong, it was probably the post office, your mortgage company or the hoa that screwed it up. interfaith's mailing list comes from things you have signed up for or who you pay bills to. you guys are way too sensitive. interfaith was the original "welcome wagon". they weren't soliciting! no one is a "member" of interfaith. your home sale is a public record available to linens and things, byrd automotive, lawyers, lenders and, yes, churches. interfaith's "material" is information on how to get involved in the community or resources for happenings in the community. it's no wonder katiedidit has never become a part of the woodlands if the first person to welcome her family was shunned! they weren't asking for money or inviting anyone to church. they were simply saying hello and here is what living in the woodlands is about. the interfaith "material" would have had information for camps, programs at the woodlands athletic center, opportunities to volunteer, places to go if you are in need and so on. for christ's sake!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interfaith of The Woodlands is an integral part of the Woodlands. Before opening the master-planned community, now known as The Woodlands, Mr. George Mitchell, founder and original developer of The Woodlands, envisioned a community that included a faith-based organization. In the early 1970s, Mr. Mitchell asked an Episcopal minister, to bring together religious leaders to plan for the spiritual needs for the community. His remarkable vision laid the groundwork for Interfaith of The Woodlands.

First paragraph of the Interfaith website. Sure sounds religious to me. As for "no members", Interfaith "membership is comprised of Woodlands are churches. Again, sure sounds religious to me.

While it is clearly a religious organization, as evidenced by their refusal to carry ads for companies they deem in conflict with their ideals in their Interfaith Phone Directory, I must admit that they never asked my religious affiliation, nor proselytized when I advertised my law firm with them. However, to suggest that they have no members, or are not religious is not deceptive...it is a lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interfaith does not have members like churches have members. churches are members of interfaith like businesses are members of the chamber of commerce. people are not members of interfaith. people volunteer in the community via interfaith, but you do not "join" interfaith as a member. they do not proselytize. is it "religious" to help your neighbor? the whole idea of interfaith is to bring people together of different backgrounds for common good without the needless bickering of religious peckadillos. so what if they went to "religious" leaders to get the ball rolling. who else is involved in the community at that level? who else can mobilize groups of people for the greater good? to be offended because a non-religious entity comes to your door to welcome you to the community is hysterical. the offense is the word "interfaith". ohhh, my faith is personal. so what! no one is trying to "save" you by welcoming you to the community.

While it is clearly a religious organization, as evidenced by their refusal to carry ads for companies they deem in conflict with their ideals in their Interfaith Phone Directory, I must admit that they never asked my religious affiliation, nor proselytized when I advertised my law firm with them.

is the chamber of commerce religious because it doesn't carry advertisements for strip clubs?

Edited by bachanon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
is the chamber of commerce religious because it doesn't carry advertisements for strip clubs?

Don't even get me started on that cult! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While it is clearly a religious organization, as evidenced by their refusal to carry ads for companies they deem in conflict with their ideals in their Interfaith Phone Directory,
I think this is more common than we admit. there are just some people we do don't to do work for various reasons. Edited by musicman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's no wonder katiedidit has never become a part of the woodlands if the first person to welcome her family was shunned!

Yeah I know, we never did get in the Koolaid line.

But seriously, if the were the "Official Welcome Wagon" for the Woodlands and not Church related, why call themselves InterFAITH. How about The Woodlands Welcome Wagon?

...and not have those crossy things on some of the phamplets. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, so interFAITH is not ANTI-religious and focuses on the "primary directive" of local churches.......helping others. they weren't there to harass, impose or manipulate, but to promote community. interfaith is quite ambiguous about "religious" issues with the exception of loving your neighbor. if loving your neighbor and wanting to create a good community is religious, then with all my disdain for most churches, i too am religious.

and, if you feel that loving your neighbor as yourself is to drink the koolaid? i'm in line.

my personal opinion on interfaith is that it is a secular attempt to mobilize the grass roots community that is local churches (without dogma or proselytizing). to couple interfaith with door to door "moonies" or evangelicals is misleading and knee jerk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
interfaith was created to introduce newcomers to community, charitable and religious activities in the woodlands. interfaith has been closely related to "worksource", senior citizen activities and volunteer opportunities in the woodlands. interfaith is the one item that has differentiated the woodlands from other idealistic communities that came about in the seventies. interfaith is nondenominational and attempts to focus on community activities that are common to all "love your neighbor first" churches. interfaith, consequently, gets a count of each new family.

certain master planned communities during the late sixties, early seventies, eliminated churches from the master plan because they felt religion was divisive. george and cynthia woods mitchell made a place for all religions by creating interfaith and leaving property available in each village for several churches of any denomination. the mitchell's realized that the grass roots dynamic of church/community activities was vital for a vibrant community.

there is a very informative chapter on interfaith in roger galatas' book on the woodlands, published by the urban land institute.

link to book

interfaith

Call me dense, but I still don't understand why an interfaith group, even when it doesn't represent a specific religion, is visiting newcomers, unless the group assumes that everyone has some religious affiliation. Some people are agnostic, atheists, or simply not religiously inclined although they may be spiritually inclined.

Given that, isn't the interfaith group being presumptuous and making some unwarranted assumptions. If someone like that showed up at my door, they wouldn't find me particularly happy to see them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Call me dense, but I still don't understand why an interfaith group, even when it doesn't represent a specific religion, is visiting newcomers, unless the group assumes that everyone has some religious affiliation. Some people are agnostic, atheists, or simply not religiously inclined although they may be spiritually inclined.

Given that, isn't the interfaith group being presumptuous and making some unwarranted assumptions. If someone like that showed up at my door, they wouldn't find me particularly happy to see them.

Amen!

c'mon the woodlands population and the nature of interfaith are totally related. :lol:;)

Well, it was a derivative of the conversation that was taking place. Someone mentioned that they (Interfaith) have a pretty accurate count and that brought on the side-bar discussion. I think it is related too, but I don't have a lot of sense of keeping strictly On Topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interfaith is an integral part of the woodlands. the woodlands was created as a community, not a suburban bedroom wasteland. interfaith assumes that people want to be a part of the community at large. damn, this "leave me alone" attitude is what's wrong with just about every societal ill i can think of.

so, giving to your community is offensive? do atheists and agnostics not want to contribute to community? you guys are beginning to sound like evangelicals who want to do it "only" their way, in their time and privately (read: i'll help my community when it suits me or my cause).

again, do you get a mark on your forehead as "religious" because you want to draw the community together? if cute kids were going door to door for environmental reasons would you be so offended? i don't understand this hostility to a non-sectarian, pro-community activism.

interfaith comes to your door to let you know that you are not alone (a good thing). there are opportunities to give if you have means and help if you need it. shiiza!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
interfaith is an integral part of the woodlands. the woodlands was created as a community, not a suburban bedroom wasteland. interfaith assumes that people want to be a part of the community at large. damn, this "leave me alone" attitude is what's wrong with just about every societal ill i can think of.

so, giving to your community is offensive? do atheists and agnostics not want to contribute to community? you guys are beginning to sound like evangelicals who want to do it "only" their way, in their time and privately (read: i'll help my community when it suits me or my cause).

again, do you get a mark on your forehead as "religious" because you want to draw the community together? if cute kids were going door to door for environmental reasons would you be so offended? i don't understand this hostility to a non-sectarian, pro-community activism.

interfaith comes to your door to let you know that you are not alone (a good thing). there are opportunities to give if you have means and help if you need it. shiiza!

I am all for being a responsible member of the community in which I happen to live (as well as other communities to which I might belong), for looking out for my neighbor (although loving my neighbor isn't what I'd call it) and for finding ways that I might contribute to the broader community. However, if any of this community involvement had even the slightest tinge of faith or religion no matter how inter-denominational in nature, I want no part of it. Community involvement is a wonderful thing; linking it to faith/religion is not for me and simply serves to alienate me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am all for being a responsible member of the community in which I happen to live (as well as other communities to which I might belong), for looking out for my neighbor (although loving my neighbor isn't what I'd call it) and for finding ways that I might contribute to the broader community. However, if any of this community involvement had even the slightest tinge of faith or religion no matter how inter-denominational in nature, I want no part of it. Community involvement is a wonderful thing; linking it to faith/religion is not for me and simply serves to alienate me.

Truly unfortunate and sad, not just because of the lack of faith but being blind to a system that works. I am betting that attitude comes from a personal rebellion against the norm. Been there, seen it before and it will be there from one generation to the next. Something that occurs frequently in the younger generation before they realize there is great benefit obtained from the communities of faith. There are very good reasons why the system is as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am all for being a responsible member of the community in which I happen to live (as well as other communities to which I might belong), for looking out for my neighbor (although loving my neighbor isn't what I'd call it) and for finding ways that I might contribute to the broader community. However, if any of this community involvement had even the slightest tinge of faith or religion no matter how inter-denominational in nature, I want no part of it. Community involvement is a wonderful thing; linking it to faith/religion is not for me and simply serves to alienate me.

Man that is simply sad. Not that you personally have no faith in religion, but that you have that much animosity toward it. I'm curious if you have this view when going to a hospital? certainly you understand that the vast majority of hospitals were built by "religious" (more specifically Christian) entities.

Well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Call me dense, but I still don't understand why an interfaith group, even when it doesn't represent a specific religion, is visiting newcomers, unless the group assumes that everyone has some religious affiliation. Some people are agnostic, atheists, or simply not religiously inclined although they may be spiritually inclined.

Given that, isn't the interfaith group being presumptuous and making some unwarranted assumptions. If someone like that showed up at my door, they wouldn't find me particularly happy to see them.

Even atheists and agnostics have faith in something, whether it be science, that which they can observe, measure, or otherwise perceive, or just in their own constructed realm. Interfaith may not be a perfect catch-all, but it doesn't seem to be fundamentally exclusive to those of any particular belief system.

I myself have arrived at a conclusion that I cannot possibly be certain of anything except that I am uncertain...but clearly I am a raging hypocrite. It is not easy to tear myself from a constructed universe in which there appears to be a semblance of order and self-determination, but which is more fundamentally illusory and chaotic. What would I do (or not do)? I don't know. So by default, I live faithfully. I live with the faith that I will wake up tomorrow morning, that there will be ground to stand on, that there will be a world in which to exist, ordered and systematic, that I can influence by the force of my own willpower. There is no guarantee, no certainty; only faith in what I think I know, but most certainly don't.

...so Interfaith welcomes me to the community...good for them. It isn't as though they aren't equally lost. They are no different than I--If they (or I) exist. I think.

Edited by TheNiche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Even atheists and agnostics have faith in something, whether it be science, that which they can observe, measure, or otherwise perceive, or just in their own constructed realm. Interfaith may not be a perfect catch-all, but it doesn't seem to be fundamentally exclusive to those of any particular belief system.

I myself have arrived at a conclusion that I cannot possibly be certain of anything except that I am uncertain...but clearly I am a raging hypocrite. It is not easy to tear myself from a constructed universe in which there appears to be a semblance of order and self-determination, but which is more fundamentally illusory and chaotic. What would I do (or not do)? I don't know. So by default, I live faithfully. I live with the faith that I will wake up tomorrow morning, that there will be ground to stand on, that there will be a world in which to exist, ordered and systematic, that I can influence by the force of my own willpower. There is no guarantee, no certainty; only faith in what I think I know, but most certainly don't.

...so Interfaith welcomes me to the community...good for them. It isn't as though they aren't equally lost. They are no different than I--If they (or I) exist. I think.

Although I don't share your system of belief, I respect your viewpoint, and I assure you that I'm not being PC here. I simply have a hard time with anyone that has that type of hatred toward religion. Religion (more specifically Christianity) has done a tremendous amount of good in the modern age, and alot of what we now have (hospitals, universities, charities) is because of wonderful giving people of the past. Yes I know religion has caused major strife through the worlds history, but to ignore it's benefits is proposterous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Although I don't share your system of belief, I respect your viewpoint, and I assure you that I'm not being PC here. I simply have a hard time with anyone that has that type of hatred toward religion. Religion (more specifically Christianity) has done a tremendous amount of good in the modern age, and alot of what we now have (hospitals, universities, charities) is because of wonderful giving people of the past. Yes I know religion has caused major strife through the worlds history, but to ignore it's benefits is proposterous.

Some may believe that those benefits were achieved in SPITE of religion, as opposed to because of it. And, if one believes that religion was created as a means to control the masses (a premise that you obviously reject), it would only be natural to dislike, or even despise organized religion. In that scenario, a few good works by practioners of organized religion would not absolve organized religion of it's sins, so to speak.

In a country where 90% of the populace claims a belief in a Christian God, it is common for groups to assume everyone thinks like they do. It is also common for the adherents to dogpile a non-believer for stating his non-belief, as is being done here. Non-believers are expected to suffer silently while others order us to have a "blessed day". I long ago stopped wishing I could tell them, "No, I won't.", without incurring a self-righteous diatribe from the faithful. I simply have better things to do than listen to how the believers have figured it out, and I am just having "a personal rebellion against the norm". I guess I am part of the "younger generation."

By the way, woody, there ARE very good reasons why the system is as it is. We probably disagree as to what those reasons are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am betting that attitude comes from a personal rebellion against the norm. Been there, seen it before and it will be there from one generation to the next. Something that occurs frequently in the younger generation before they realize there is great benefit obtained from the communities of faith. [/quote]

[quote name 'RedScare' date=Monday, June 11th, 2007 @ 7:08 pm' Some may believe that those benefits were achieved in SPITE of religion, as opposed to because of it. And, if one believes that religion was created as a means to control the masses (a premise that you obviously reject), it would only be natural to dislike, or even despise organized religion. In that scenario, a few good works by practioners of organized religion would not absolve organized religion of it's sins, so to speak.

In a country where 90% of the populace claims a belief in a Christian God, it is common for groups to assume everyone thinks like they do. It is also common for the adherents to dogpile a non-believer for stating his non-belief, as is being done here. Non-believers are expected to suffer silently while others order us to have a "blessed day". I long ago stopped wishing I could tell them, "No, I won't.", without incurring a self-righteous diatribe from the faithful. I simply have better things to do than listen to how the believers have figured it out, and I am just having "a personal rebellion against the norm". I guess I am part of the "younger generation."

By the way, woody, there ARE very good reasons why the system is as it is. We probably disagree as to what those reasons are.

My attitude comes from being raised in a family that was not religious. My grandfather, a "raceman" and an original member of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters became convinced that religion was as RedScare notes "created as a means to control the masses (particularly Black folks) and eschewed religion." And since then the members of my family have been non-believers. Throughout my lifetime, I have incurred criticism from the African American community (as well as other communities) for being a non-believer, been preached to, had my morality and my ability to raise a child properly without benfit of religion called into question, had well-meaning Christian proselytize their ideas, and been wished a blessed day in person and in phone messages more times than I can remember, all things I would prefer not to have to endure.

Edited by millennica

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My attitude comes from being raised in a family that was not religious. My grandfather, a "raceman" and an original member of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters became convinced that religion was as RedScare notes "created as a means to control the masses (particularly Black folks) and eschewed religion." And since then the members of my family have been non-believers. Throughout my lifetime, I have incurred criticism from the African American community (as well as other communities) for being a non-believer, been preached to, had my morality and my ability to raise a child properly without benfit of religion called into question, had well-meaning Christian proselytize their ideas, and been wished a blessed day in person and in phone messages more times than I can remember, all things I would prefer not to have to endure.

So, religion is a way to keep me in control?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, religion is a way to keep me in control?

There are people who believe that religion is a way to control to the masses, by keeping them focused on life in the hereafter instead of the conditions of the present. That's what my grandfather came to believe through his work with A. Philip Randolph and the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some of the non-religious are just as bad as the super/over religious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Non-believers are expected to suffer silently while others order us to have a "blessed day". I long ago stopped wishing I could tell them, "No, I won't.", without incurring a self-righteous diatribe from the faithful. I simply have better things to do than listen to how the believers have figured it out, and I am just having "a personal rebellion against the norm". I guess I am part of the "younger generation."

Red,

I think your reaching a little here, in fact I think to make a statement like, "Non-believers are expected to suffer silently while others order us to have a "blessed day" is outlandish, and quite frankly prejudice.

My point was that most religous folks I know aren't hell bent on stopping an agnostic or atheist from trying to implement something positive into a community. THAT WAS IT.

I am NOT trying to throw a "self righteous diatribe" your way, or tell you that I have"figured everything out", hell I don't even go to church. I did grow up in a Christian church though, and some of the most wonderful and sincere people I've ever met (many I still know) came from that congregation. They never rifled me with petitions of walking through the city en masse in order to denounce the devil and his minions, and they certainly were not brainwashed mezmerist leading the people astray. I think maybe some here watch a little to much TBN and Christian media, and form their opinions largely from that. Yes I know for many years that religion has created many evil men, wars, etc, etc, but so has every other walk of life and culture. Of course I've read enough of your comments Red to know your opinion is based on Catholic school, but I still believe your assesment is completely unfair.

Edited by Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that my assessment is unfair, but being subjected to someone else's belief system on my own front porch is not. By the way, I did not become agnostic from attending Catholic school. Catholic church and school bored me, but it did not turn me against religion. Since you bring it up, I will tell you that it was the particular brand of fire and brimstone, intolerant Christianity that is practiced by many in Texas that caused me to question religion. In North Carolina, even though they are very religious, they were a kinder, gentler religious (at least when I lived here). Once I moved to Texas, the in your face style was revolting to me. I questioned it, read up on it, and, unlike woody's theory, as an adult, rejected it.

I am very comfortable in my agnostic skin, with the exception that I, like millenica, tire of those who feel the urge to push THEIR religion in my face. Common courtesy, as dictated by the 90% majority, says you do not tell the religious to keep their "blessed day" comments to themselves. Therefore, I did not respond to the 2 emails and one voicemail I received JUST TODAY, wishing me a "blessed day". Like I said before, I really have better things to do.

I suppose you could call me prejudiced against religion, though prejudice generally refers to a class of people, not an institution. Not sure what it proves, but if that's the term you like, so be it. Having been raised Catholic, I liken my situation as more akin to a reformed smoker. But, if you REALLY want an example of prejudice, why not look at the percentage of Christians who would not vote for an atheist for president.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think some of the non-religious are just as bad as the super/over religious.

You'll get no disagreement from me about that statement. There are good and bad people among the non-religious as well as among the super/over religious. IMHO, knowing how religious/non-religious a particular individual reveals little about their moral or ethical stances or behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting that my assessment is unfair, but being subjected to someone else's belief system on my own front porch is not.

Mellow out. Such truely assinine people should have absolutely no bearing upon what you think. You espouse such individual conviction that I am honestly surprised that you would allow this to affect you. The greatest conceivable act of individualism is not to care that they think as they do, and not to rebel against it solely because they annoy you. They are only as relevent as their argument...which is to say, not very (in most cases). Treat them as such; otherwise, that you react adversely is an open admittance that they are relevent to you in some form or another.

As for those that wish you a blessed day, let them do so if it brings them comfort. If it is meaningless to you, then treat it as silence. Meaning is only what you make of it.

Edited by TheNiche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Even atheists and agnostics have faith in something, whether it be science, that which they can observe, measure, or otherwise perceive, or just in their own constructed realm.

Belief in something that can be demonstrated repeatedly and independently verified is not an act of faith. It's about constructing the proper theory to explain a phenomenon, and devise new experiments to either confirm, amend, or reject the theory based on new observation. And this is the distinguishing trait from acts of faith: a theory is improved to take into account new understanding. Unlike religious faith, there is a rejection of dogma. If someone makes an assertion using the theory of gravity as justification, it can be tested. It doesn't have to be accepted as an article of faith.

Anyway, yes, being part of the 5% of Americans who actively reject all superstition and existence of deities has been an interesting experience.

Edited by woolie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Belief in something that can be demonstrated repeatedly and independently verified is not an act of faith; is the theory of gravitational-attraction something that has to be accepted as an act of faith? No, because gravity will exist regardless if you accept it or not. It's about constructing the proper theory to explain a phenomenon, and devise new experiments to either confirm, amend, or reject the theory based on new observation. And this is the distinguishing trait from acts of faith: a theory is improved to take into account new understanding. Unlike religious faith, there is a rejection of dogma.

I question conciousness, perception, and memory. I fundamentally dispute the assumption of sanity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I question conciousness, perception, and memory. I fundamentally dispute the assumption of sanity.

is the Matrix your favorite movie? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
is the Matrix your favorite movie? :)

Its certainly up there on the list. I've never really contemplated which is my favorite movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Red I certainly understand if a fruitcake is at your front door, you'll reject him or her just as I would. Also, your not the only one that can't stand religious nuts pushing there belief and doctrine, in fact it's an automatic rejection for most of us. Quite frankly I'm not sure what I beleive half the time, but I do know that to broad brush religion as has been done here, is simply wrong and unfounded.

I don't want to end up in a war here, in fact my bet is that if we were discussing this over a beer, we would probably have a lot more in common with this subject than you might think. I just have a problem with the broad brushing of all religion (specifically Christianity), and making it out as only the stupid people believe.

Let's just agree to dissagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let's just agree to disagree.

Wouldn't the world be a much saner place if everyone could do this? Religious fundamentalism of all faiths is what scares me the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me of the time in the Walmart parking lot out in Katy Mills. Some person from a church out there were handing out little packets (forgot what they were). She asked me if I believe in God. I said "no" just to see what she would say. She started preaching to me about how God is real (the whole nine yards). I just stopped her and said I do and walked away. That's the type of stuff that I don't think should happen. I think you should be able to buy eggs at 9 PM without someone passing out church flyers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Red I certainly understand if a fruitcake is at your front door, you'll reject him or her just as I would. Also, your not the only one that can't stand religious nuts pushing there belief and doctrine, in fact it's an automatic rejection for most of us. Quite frankly I'm not sure what I beleive half the time, but I do know that to broad brush religion as has been done here, is simply wrong and unfounded.

I don't want to end up in a war here, in fact my bet is that if we were discussing this over a beer, we would probably have a lot more in common with this subject than you might think. I just have a problem with the broad brushing of all religion (specifically Christianity), and making it out as only the stupid people believe.

Let's just agree to dissagree.

Gary, I'll respond to one point, then take you up on your offer.

To become an agnostic, or to take it even further, an atheist, REQUIRES a broad brush of religion. It is impossible for one to doubt or disallow the existence of a higher power without coming to the conclusion that organized religion is nothing more than a club or organization for those who have not yet come to the conclusion that there is no God. For one to claim agnosticism, yet believe in religion, is not to be agnostic at all.

Now, this is not a slap at believers, though many will take it that way. It is also not to suggest that many members of a church, including those of Interfaith, do not do good works, or that acts of charity performed in the name of God are any less admirable. It is merely my belief that the underlying premise of the church is faulty. I think you have mistaken my doubt of the existence of a higher being, and more specifically, of a Christian God, for an indictment of all believers. That is not my belief or my intent. In fact, I am fully aware of the possibility that I am completely wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This reminds me of the time in the Walmart parking lot out in Katy Mills. Some person from a church out there were handing out little packets (forgot what they were). She asked me if I believe in God. I said "no" just to see what she would say. She started preaching to me about how God is real (the whole nine yards). I just stopped her and said I do and walked away. That's the type of stuff that I don't think should happen. I think you should be able to buy eggs at 9 PM without someone passing out church flyers.

She should have the right to pass out flyers, but you should have the right to say "No, thank you" and go about your own personal business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, but she started going on about the church and how great it is, then gave me the flyer, then asked me. I do believe, but wanted to see her reaction.

Edited by Trae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, but she started going on about the church and how great it is, then gave me the flyer, then asked me. I do believe, but wanted to see her reaction.

Whether or not you believe is another issue. The issue is freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. It shouldn't matter to you what I believe, and I shouldn't care what you believe. When religion forces itself into the government, and how we live our day-to-day lives, that's when we need to care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whether or not you believe is another issue. The issue is freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. It shouldn't matter to you what I believe, and I shouldn't care what you believe. When religion forces itself into the government, and how we live our day-to-day lives, that's when we need to care.

TANGENT ALERT: Speaking of which, does it strike anyone else as odd that all the Democrat presidential candidates have started chiming in more frequently as supportive of Christian faith than most of the Republican candidates? Populism is a scary thing. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whether or not you believe is another issue. The issue is freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. It shouldn't matter to you what I believe, and I shouldn't care what you believe. When religion forces itself into the government, and how we live our day-to-day lives, that's when we need to care.

If it's forced, then it's not faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If it's forced, then it's not faith.

to the contrary. if it's forced, you can only accept it on faith. what little tools available to investigate and test dogma are wrestled from you. let's not muddy the meaning of the word with the touchy-feely evangelical notion of faith. faith is the belief in a doctrine without any proof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, but she started going on about the church and how great it is, then gave me the flyer, then asked me. I do believe, but wanted to see her reaction.

That is actually consider good, there are worse things done than this.

It may be annoying but it certainly isn't bad when compare to getting religious rules into government.

I wouldn't mind getting preached a little more if it means getting their attention off trying to put religion into government.

Edited by webdude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
faith is the belief in a doctrine without any proof.

What say you about Hebrews 11:1?

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

And let it be known that the word hope is not a "touchy-feely" word either. It's not like, "I hope I get a million dollars." It's a hope in something that will happen. Not might happen.

And there may not be proof, but there's evidence. If there were proof, there would be no need for faith.

Edited by lockmat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In societies where religion and government are intertwined, is it even legal to pass out flyers or knock on doors to talk to people about faith or lack of faith? That's a world I don't want to live in.

Edited by nativehou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...