The Preserve At West Beach

[MidtownCoog]

Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:54:22 AM

If you live in or care about Galveston Island, it might be worth your while to mark off this coming Monday on your calendar. At 6:30 p.m. at the Galveston Country Club, the managing director of the Marquette Companies will be on hand to discuss the latest huge housing development on the west end of the island.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/houstoned/20..._the_island.php

[Subdude]

June 6, 2007, 12:09AM

Clash over development flares up in Galveston

Rezoning vote postponed after residents blast plans for giant West End project

By HARVEY RICE

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Strong differences over whether storm-battered Galveston Island is suitable for further development flared into controversy Tuesday and delayed the largest development ever proposed here.

The Galveston Planning Commission postponed action on a rezoning request by the Chicago-based Marquette Companies after residents near the proposed development streamed to the microphone to voice their opposition for nearly two hours.

The clash over the 1,054-acre project on the West End of the island brought into focus the ongoing debate between those who seek to limit development on the environmentally fragile barrier island and those who favor building on one of the last remaining areas suitable for development.

The project envisions 3,948 dwellings, including five midrise condominiums, two 16-story hotels and a marina. An alternate version of the plan replaces about 400 dwellings with an 18-hole golf course for the development, which would span the narrow barrier island from West Galveston Bay to the Gulf of Mexico.

The commissioners voted unanimously to conduct a special workshop June 19 to grapple with questions about development before voting on the rezoning request that same day.

Several commissioners wanted to know why Marquette wanted a zoning change that would allow it broad discretion in what it chooses to build.

"The city has no control once it's rezoned," Commissioner Elizabeth Beeton said.

Link

[plumber2]

"Planning and Zoning" well discuss this request for two weeks according the The Galveston Daily News article this morning.

[The New Juniper]

"Planning and Zoning" well discuss this request for two weeks according the The Galveston Daily News article this morning.

I have followed this from a relative distance. The general consensus seems to be, "We (Galveston) cannot allow this group to come in here and build out our town for three reasons: 1. the traffic will be more than 3005 can handle, 2. the development will increase the erosion rate and cut the island in half, and 3. the good folks on the west end don't want anyone else playing in their sandbox.

These 3 complaints are generally followed by, "But, it doesn't matter. The City is just going to roll over to the big developers and let them do whatever they want....(sigh coupled with hands out to side with palms up)"

Now, I have no dog in the Preserve at West Beach fight. Don't know anything about it other than what i have read in the Chronicle. Rather, my thoughts are more focused at the City. Question i have is: Does Galveston wish to grow and fulfill what would seem to be its inevitable, God and geographically given destiny to be a coastal mecca for the 4MM people that live within a one hour drive?

And, if so, how?

It seems a bit empty for the Pirate's beach crowd to complain about the City's less than attractive areas, but then rise up in opposition to a new development that would bring millions to the City b/c it happens that it will be near their Nirvana.

Secondly, the Planning Commission (apologies in advance to anyone that may know or even be one of these people) has a few nutballs. Having visited with these people, i would not trust a few of them to feed my dog while on vacation, much less be the guiding force behind what gets built on the island. Seriously, people should pay close attention to these people. Scary at times.

I am not saying that ALL development should be rubber-stamped. Much to the contrary. But, let's just be consistent.

Arbitrarily setting parking, density, and other requirements that fly in the face of the written code will deter future investment. Galveston NEEDS high quality investment on the island. Treating people who want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars as though you are doing them a favor by granting them the ability to do what is already allowable by code is a disaster.

Just my thoughts. City is at the crossroads. They need leadership now more than ever. Someone or some group needs to take control and corral the forces of status-quo, unbridled growth, environment, etc.

[MidtownCoog]

You forgot #4 - It's just too damn big. 3,948 dwellings? Scale it back, and elmininate the hotels.

And the golf course? Just another way to pollute the bay. Kill it.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

I have followed this from a relative distance. The general consensus seems to be, "We (Galveston) cannot allow this group to come in here and build out our town for three reasons: 1. the traffic will be more than 3005 can handle, 2. the development will increase the erosion rate and cut the island in half, and 3. the good folks on the west end don't want anyone else playing in their sandbox.

These 3 complaints are generally followed by, "But, it doesn't matter. The City is just going to roll over to the big developers and let them do whatever they want....(sigh coupled with hands out to side with palms up)"

Now, I have no dog in the Preserve at West Beach fight. Don't know anything about it other than what i have read in the Chronicle. Rather, my thoughts are more focused at the City. Question i have is: Does Galveston wish to grow and fulfill what would seem to be its inevitable, God and geographically given destiny to be a coastal mecca for the 4MM people that live within a one hour drive?

And, if so, how?

It seems a bit empty for the Pirate's beach crowd to complain about the City's less than attractive areas, but then rise up in opposition to a new development that would bring millions to the City b/c it happens that it will be near their Nirvana.

Secondly, the Planning Commission (apologies in advance to anyone that may know or even be one of these people) has a few nutballs. Having visited with these people, i would not trust a few of them to feed my dog while on vacation, much less be the guiding force behind what gets built on the island. Seriously, people should pay close attention to these people. Scary at times.

I am not saying that ALL development should be rubber-stamped. Much to the contrary. But, let's just be consistent.

Arbitrarily setting parking, density, and other requirements that fly in the face of the written code will deter future investment. Galveston NEEDS high quality investment on the island. Treating people who want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars as though you are doing them a favor by granting them the ability to do what is already allowable by code is a disaster.

Just my thoughts. City is at the crossroads. They need leadership now more than ever. Someone or some group needs to take control and corral the forces of status-quo, unbridled growth, environment, etc.

I agree!!

Two things

1. West End Residents - From elsewhere, these "Galvestonians" are trying to escape "urban meccas" when moving to the island.

2. Galveston City Council - Seeking developers to develop 600 acres of land on Galveston's east end. The Daily News put potential growth at 80,000 new residents.

Two different forces at work here.

Edited June 8, 2007 by J.A.S.O.N.

[MidtownCoog]

If Galveston wanted to, it could turn the West End into another Padre Island.

Think what a tiny strip Padre is.

[MidtownCoog]

The Chron weighs in: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/4875021.html

[pineda]

"Does Galveston wish to grow and fulfill what would seem to be its inevitable, God and geographically given destiny to be a coastal mecca for the 4MM people that live within a one hour drive?"

Interesting question, I never really thought of Galveston's potential future development plans as any kind of God-given destiny, but whatever...

Seriously, F.M. 3005, is it in the plans to be seriously upgraded to multi-lanes before all this takes place?

[TheNiche]

Secondly, the Planning Commission (apologies in advance to anyone that may know or even be one of these people) has a few nutballs. Having visited with these people, i would not trust a few of them to feed my dog while on vacation, much less be the guiding force behind what gets built on the island. Seriously, people should pay close attention to these people. Scary at times.

CONCUR! I love Galveston, but it is schizo to the core.

The general consensus seems to be, "We (Galveston) cannot allow this group to come in here and build out our town for three reasons: 1. the traffic will be more than 3005 can handle, 2. the development will increase the erosion rate and cut the island in half, and 3. the good folks on the west end don't want anyone else playing in their sandbox.

1. Create a tax increment to budget for FM 3005 expansion. Make those who use it pay for it.

2. As part of that future expansion, raise the grade of the roadbed by at least enough to compensate for development of the natural ridge. If the island gets cut up in a storm (which is prone to happen on barrier islands regardless of the amount of development), those homes that are swept away will for the most part be covered by insurance; to the extent that the Feds will cover it with the NFIP, fine. It is not Galveston's concern so long as taxes are paid on them in the interim and the developer has paid for infrastructure with an in-city MUD, which absorbs the financial risk on that end.

3. I don't have a solution for the intricacies of small-town politics of this sort. Whenever there is a situation like Galveston's, where basically a single city controls nearly all of a major amenity (such as waterfront), existing owners turn into monopolists at the expense of future residents and renters. Good for them, bad for everyone else. It'd basically take an act of congress or a major supreme court decision to get rid of these practices.

You forgot #4 - It's just too damn big. 3,948 dwellings? Scale it back, and elmininate the hotels.

And the golf course? Just another way to pollute the bay. Kill it.

Says the man who owns property in Galveston...

[MidtownCoog]

It took Jamaica Beach 51 years to reach it's current size.

[TheNiche]

It took Jamaica Beach 51 years to reach it's current size.

[editor]

Added The Preserve At West Beach to the brand new list of projects on Galveston Island.

[MidtownCoog]

Lying about what? I am not opposed to "The Preserve" other than it's a bit over the top as proposed.

The two 16 story hotels take the cheese factor through the roof.

This is nothing more than another case of a bunch of crazy Yankess coming to Texas with plans for everyone. Too bad the Galveston planners can't see past the money.

[TheNiche]

Lying about what? I am not opposed to "The Preserve" other than it's a bit over the top as proposed.

The two 16 story hotels take the cheese factor through the roof.

This is nothing more than another case of a bunch of crazy Yankess coming to Texas with plans for everyone. Too bad the Galveston planners can't see past the money.

"Practically overnight," was the phrase that you used. That is false. Not only does construction take longer than even a 'practical night', but the market could not possibly support such rapid development even if it were physically possible.

Between this, the "cheese factor," and the mispelled "crazy Yankess," you run the risk of sacrificing your credibility for cheap and transparent rhetoric.

[MidtownCoog]

If the best you can do is correct typos, you might as well log-off now and stop reading.

The proposed development will not take 51 years. You've never heard of figuratively speaking?

Right now Galveston can barely get drinking water to the West End with the current infrastructure. Just last two weeks ago it was not even safe for drinking.

These are some of the issues people like you don't understand. You get all your news from sloppy Chron.com articles when the real world is out there. I don't even think the Galveston "planners" are thinking about it.

You may get all ga-ga over a Chicago firm putting their mark on Texas. This project needs a little more research before we give them the greenlight.

[TheNiche]

If the best you can do is correct typos, you might as well log-off now and stop reading.

The proposed development will not take 51 years. You've never heard of figuratively speaking?

My pointing out of a typo was only the most minor part of my post. It is telling that it was the first thing that you latched onto and cite it as "the best thing can do," even though you fail to address my criticism effectively. Accept that you were blowing smoke, and I'll back off. Cool heads must prevail.

Right now Galveston can barely get drinking water to the West End with the current infrastructure. Just last two weeks ago it was not even safe for drinking.

These are some of the issues people like you don't understand. You get all your news from sloppy Chron.com articles when the real world is out there. I don't even think the Galveston "planners" are thinking about it.

As for the infrastructure, do you understand the concept of an in-city MUD, which I suggested? As it is, Jamaica Beach and MUD #1 buy their water from the City of Galveston. Has it occurred to you that the City could then turn around and use that cash flow to upgrade their infrastructure, or that they could basically act as water monopolists for this new development, making more money than is even necessary for infrastructure upgrades?

And have you ever dealt with Galveston's politicians? Especially the Planners? I have, and I stand by my comments.

You may get all ga-ga over a Chicago firm putting their mark on Texas. This project needs a little more research before we give them the greenlight.

Without markets in the northeast and overseas for exported cotton, Galveston would never have been what it was (or is). Xenophobia will get you nowhere.

[MidtownCoog]

And have you ever dealt with Galveston's politicians? Especially the Planners? I have, and I stand by my comments.

Oy vey. And "you were the youngest one in the room." I know, I know this.

The Chicago Firm could just as well be Randall Davis or anyone else looking to make a quick buck developing 3,000 + homesites.

[TheNiche]

The Chicago Firm could just as well be Randall Davis or anyone else looking to make a quick buck developing 3,000 + homesites.

No such thing as a quick buck (unless it is highly risky). Besides, it sure is funny that you try to discredit people because they'd be in a position to make money, when it is you that'd be in a position to make money if you can sucessfully discredit those people and enforce a barrier to entry.

[The New Juniper]

No such thing as a quick buck (unless it is highly risky). Besides, it sure is funny that you try to discredit people because they'd be in a position to make money, when it is you that'd be in a position to make money if you can sucessfully discredit those people and enforce a barrier to entry.

Agreed. The "buck" made in Galveston is the slowest, hardest earned buck out there. Again, there is virtually no reason for it. I believe (putting on bullet proof vest for shelling i will take) that Galveston is its own worst enemy.

It is a combination of a desire to grow, but only in a way that a few select folks deem appropriate. There is Promotion of development in a community deadset on limiting it. Allow construction while attempting to communicate to the world that it cares about the environment.

The issue i have is that the above are not mutually exclusive. If a nut-ball (and i truly don't mean to get off on a tangent here) area like Austin can do it, surely Galveston can. This is a leadership issue. The city elders need to decide what they want to be. Sleepy little beach town or thriving coastal destination. Either is fine, but straddling the fence just makes both sides unhappy.

[TheNiche]

The issue i have is that the above are not mutually exclusive. If a nut-ball (and i truly don't mean to get off on a tangent here) area like Austin can do it, surely Galveston can. This is a leadership issue. The city elders need to decide what they want to be. Sleepy little beach town or thriving coastal destination. Either is fine, but straddling the fence just makes both sides unhappy.

Yeah, a lot of highly-desireable small towns are like that. Its very similar in Bellaire when it comes to commercial development. It isn't that there isn't a market to be fulfilled in such places, just that most investors won't risk even exploring a new venture because the city governments are perceived as completely schizo.

[MidtownCoog]

It is a combination of a desire to grow, but only in a way that a few select folks deem appropriate.

Nothing wrong with that.

This is not unique to Galveston. Look at Fredericksburg, where my interloper relatives live.

Too bad New Braunfells couldn't have hold onto that, too.

[TheNiche]

Nothing wrong with that.

This is not unique to Galveston. Look at Fredericksburg, where my interloper relatives live.

Too bad New Braunfells couldn't have hold onto that, too.

I agree that growth in some areas can diminish an experience, but then again, if it also means that more people can be accomodated, then perhaps you the individual come away less satisfied per visit, but because there are greater numbers of people that can have the experience, society as a whole is made better off.

...but even then, I would suggest that Galveston is not such an area, and that by expanding its capacity for both permanent residents, seasonal/weekend residents, and tourists, more retail offerings might be brought to the Strand area as well as the Seawall, thus increasing quality of life for the average Galvestonian. I wouldn't expect it to work out so nicely in Fredericksburg, New Braunfels/Gruene, and other places that are charming on account of their small size, isolation, and uniformity of period architecture. Galveston, in contrast, is not small, is not uniform, and is not isolated. More growth won't look out of place, and to the extent that the financial risk can be internalized by the developer and end users, it can only contribute to the island's well-being...unless you're a property owner.

And that's another thing. What select group of folks get to deem development appropriate or inappropriate? Somehow, I doubt that they'll have greater society's interests at heart.

[The New Juniper]

I agree that growth in some areas can diminish an experience, but then again, if it also means that more people can be accomodated, then perhaps you the individual come away less satisfied per visit, but because there are greater numbers of people that can have the experience, society as a whole is made better off.

...but even then, I would suggest that Galveston is not such an area, and that by expanding its capacity for both permanent residents, seasonal/weekend residents, and tourists, more retail offerings might be brought to the Strand area as well as the Seawall, thus increasing quality of life for the average Galvestonian. I wouldn't expect it to work out so nicely in Fredericksburg, New Braunfels/Gruene, and other places that are charming on account of their small size, isolation, and uniformity of period architecture. Galveston, in contrast, is not small, is not uniform, and is not isolated. More growth won't look out of place, and to the extent that the financial risk can be internalized by the developer and end users, it can only contribute to the island's well-being...unless you're a property owner.

And that's another thing. What select group of folks get to deem development appropriate or inappropriate? Somehow, I doubt that they'll have greater society's interests at heart.

What i am left with is this, Galveston as it sits currently doesn't draw people in. The beaches are C+ at best. The island itself has no identity. The market and desire to construct seems to be there for the island. Pick an area that will house the new hi-rise buildings and create a favorable investment atmosphere. The market will determine success and failure, good and bad projects, beautiful and ugly, not that yahoos on the Planning Commission...

Promote the island. Don't act as though you are doing a favor allowing investment. Look at the past 30 years.....wake up! [preparing for onslaught]

[TheNiche]

What i am left with is this, Galveston as it sits currently doesn't draw people in. The beaches are C+ at best. The island itself has no identity. The market and desire to construct seems to be there for the island. Pick an area that will house the new hi-rise buildings and create a favorable investment atmosphere. The market will determine success and failure, good and bad projects, beautiful and ugly, not that yahoos on the Planning Commission...

I wouldn't go so far as to open up Galveston entirely to the free market--there should be special considerations on account of its unique posture--but it does need political reform so as to act with consistency and with reasonableness. Assume, for instance that the island enforces extremely strict regulations predictably and without exception. Developers can deal with that...they certainly have in other parts of the country. But as it is, Galveston is schizo. Developers don't want to get bogged down in project planning for something that may be killed on a whim for reasons that may or may not even be made clear to them, much less make sense.

[The New Juniper]

I wouldn't go so far as to open up Galveston entirely to the free market--there should be special considerations on account of its unique posture--but it does need political reform so as to act with consistency and with reasonableness. Assume, for instance that the island enforces extremely strict regulations predictably and without exception. Developers can deal with that...they certainly have in other parts of the country. But as it is, Galveston is schizo. Developers don't want to get bogged down in project planning for something that may be killed on a whim for reasons that may or may not even be made clear to them, much less make sense.

Agreed. Just be consistent. As long as everyone knows the rules, no problem. Even if the rules are screwey.

[Subdude]

Rezoning for this project was approved.

Developer wins rezoning approval for Isle project

By HARVEY RICE

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

GALVESTON

[The New Juniper]

Marquette hotel decision postponed

By Leigh Jones

The Daily News

Published June 21, 2007

GALVESTON

Edited June 21, 2007 by The New Juniper

[RedScare]

What i am left with is this, Galveston as it sits currently doesn't draw people in.

Promote the island. Don't act as though you are doing a favor allowing investment. Look at the past 30 years.....wake up! [preparing for onslaught]

Galveston draws 6 million tourists per year, so your statement is not quite correct. A more accurate statement might be that Galveston is not drawing enough of the big spending tourists, as opposed to day trippers. Further, it does not do a good enough job catering to the big spenders that DO show up, for cruises, for instance. Cruisers would arrive early or stay on the island longer, if amenities were upgraded.

That said, the Island was neglected for decades. It takes awhile to upgrade. Progress appears to be coming, if slow for some tastes.

[islander]

Agreed----it's going to take time.

News Juniper - you only have half of the story. The rezoning request and preliminary plat were approved by the commission, 4 to 3. So, that allows to developer to move forward with regulatory permits and the like. The deferral of the hotel is only part of the story and a minor element in the entire design. Plus, it is only deferred until next month. So, stay tuned.....

[ChannelTwoNews]

A development agreement was approved at a city council meeting last night.

Two takes on the Same Story...

Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/5337681.html

Galveston County Daily News

http://news.galvestondailynews.com/story.l...40b62bce2b82769

Edited November 29, 2007 by ChannelTwoNews

[lockmat]

Can anyone confirm at July 2010 start date?

[Urbannizer]

The fight for green land in Galveston

April 2nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM By Sarah Rufca

Hurricane Ike and an economy in free fall put something of a wrench in Marquette Land Investments' ambitious plans for the 1,000-plus-acre development called "The Preserve at West Beach." The planned community is still in the works, with a 15-story resort hotel, more than 4,000 condos and residential homes, a golf course, and a marina in the designs.But now a coalition of conservation-minded locals are trying to buy back some of the undeveloped bay-front land and coastal plain from the developers. The site, according to environmentalists, is one of the most ecologically diverse spaces on the island.

http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/04-01-10-the-fight-for-green-land-in-galveston/

[EMME]

With the rest of the gulf coast about to be ravaged by this oil spill, this may be one positive that lands in Galveston's comeback lap. Possibly a good time to invest in Galveston.

[TheNiche]

With the rest of the gulf coast about to be ravaged by this oil spill, this may be one positive that lands in Galveston's comeback lap. Possibly a good time to invest in Galveston.

I was thinking about that too. It's amazing to think that Texas now has the nicest beaches on the Gulf Coast. ...but all bets are off if a hurricane strikes the Gulf during this ongoing incident.