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clearman

Ivy District - Formerly Waterlight District

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If the project turns out like this, it will rival The Woodlands Waterway:

waterlights-district-view.jpg

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Any action going on at the Waterlights District site? Isn't the park portion supposed to be open at the end of the year?

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Any action going on at the Waterlights District site? Isn't the park portion supposed to be open at the end of the year?

There is quite a bit of construction, but right now it seems to be infrastructure, not buildings.

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If the project turns out like this, it will rival The Woodlands Waterway:

waterlights-district-view.jpg

Except it will have stupid heads of presidents along it.

Sweet fancy Jesus, this is dumb.

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Except it will have stupid heads of presidents along it.

Sweet fancy Jesus, this is dumb.

At least it's different. I like to see a little creativity at work. The whole country is turning into one big indistinguishable strip mall; if it takes monstrous presidential heads to make a place stand apart a little, I'll take it.

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At least it's different. I like to see a little creativity at work. The whole country is turning into one big indistinguishable strip mall; if it takes monstrous presidential heads to make a place stand apart a little, I'll take it.

...one big indistinguishable strip mall...with heads.

Fantastic. :rolleyes:

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...one big indistinguishable strip mall...with heads.

Fantastic. :rolleyes:

Points for humor, perhaps? I wonder how long before the heads get tagged.

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There is quite a bit of construction, but right now it seems to be infrastructure, not buildings.

I think that you may have confused the construction of the Kroger Marketplace with the Waterlights. There is no movement on the Waterlights parcel as of yet.

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Only 15 min from TMC? This development must have been in-potential for quite some time. No wonder it's so upscale.

Edited by N Judah

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Only 15 min from TMC? This development must have been in-potential for quite some time. No wonder it's so upscale.

? I don't understand what you mean by "in-potential." Is that a developer phrase?

If you are questioning the 15 minutes from the TMC, I have to say that despite all the talk about the traffic on 288, I have driven to Pearland countless times, since we are looking at houses there. It does take 15 minutes from the museum district or med center. I'm sure it's much worse during rush hour, but it takes me 30 minutes to get from UH to Rice at rush hour, so who's going to use rush hour as a measure of travel time (especially in a promotion). Plus, rush hour on 288 is much briefer than, say, rush hour on the Katy, which as far as I can tell lasts all day.

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? I don't understand what you mean by "in-potential." Is that a developer phrase?

If you are questioning the 15 minutes from the TMC, I have to say that despite all the talk about the traffic on 288, I have driven to Pearland countless times, since we are looking at houses there. It does take 15 minutes from the museum district or med center. I'm sure it's much worse during rush hour, but it takes me 30 minutes to get from UH to Rice at rush hour, so who's going to use rush hour as a measure of travel time (especially in a promotion). Plus, rush hour on 288 is much briefer than, say, rush hour on the Katy, which as far as I can tell lasts all day.

No, definitely not a developer's phrase, not as far as I know. I just wasn't sure how to phrase the fact that I have long felt like that particular area should have been built up a long time ago but for some reason was left alone until now. And now that people are realizing it's not far at all from the TMC, I am not suprised that the development occurring there is of (what I think is) very high quality.

I guess I would be interested to know how/why Pearland was left alone for so long. I do like this "Waterlight District" thing and think the concept is somewhat novel for the Houston area. The presidents thing is somewhat dorky, however.

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No, definitely not a developer's phrase, not as far as I know. I just wasn't sure how to phrase the fact that I have long felt like that particular area should have been built up a long time ago but for some reason was left alone until now. And now that people are realizing it's not far at all from the TMC, I am not suprised that the development occurring there is of (what I think is) very high quality.

I guess I would be interested to know how/why Pearland was left alone for so long. I do like this "Waterlight District" thing and think the concept is somewhat novel for the Houston area. The presidents thing is somewhat dorky, however.

Oh, okay, I see. I agree!

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In all honesty I think Pearland was left alone for a couple of reasons. The first was that although 288 has been there for a while, that area of west Pearland did not really kick off until the beltway was built on that side of town. Southwyke became Silverlake and boom, the rest is history. The second reason is that for many years west side of Pearland = Flooding. Many developers were hesitant to get involved in the area. The other reason is one I have spoke about in another post about a west side Pearland park and ride. Old money/ power in Pearland really resides east of 35 and quite frankly no one really cared about the other end of Pearland. West Pearland had the lower income and less appealing demographics for many years. The idea has always been there as I can rememeber looking at houses in Southwyke in 1983 when it was still new and listening to the sales agent tout the wonders of being 15 minutes from the medical center. The sales pitch hasn't changed, just the number of people and the number of developers willing to invest money in the area.

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what they fail to realize also is that "old" Missouri City is only 8 or so miles away and they possess alot of spending power out there as there was no where to go (Malls that is) except to Sugar Land or the Galleria....Pearland opens up, you have another 20,000 people to the west off 2234 you have access to...

also..Pearland is south of South Park, Sunnyside, etc....those areas have people but there is a lack of commerce out there with Gulfgate being the closest.....it was bound to happen

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what they fail to realize also is that "old" Missouri City is only 8 or so miles away and they possess alot of spending power out there as there was no where to go (Malls that is) except to Sugar Land or the Galleria....Pearland opens up, you have another 20,000 people to the west off 2234 you have access to...

also..Pearland is south of South Park, Sunnyside, etc....those areas have people but there is a lack of commerce out there with Gulfgate being the closest.....it was bound to happen

You just explained where the "less appealing demographics" brerrabbit mentioned come from. Honestly I have several friends that have looked at moving to the area and this is the biggest deterent for them. They are surprised driving into Shadow Creek Ranch at the "diversity".

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You just explained where the "less appealing demographics" brerrabbit mentioned come from. Honestly I have several friends that have looked at moving to the area and this is the biggest deterent for them. They are surprised driving into Shadow Creek Ranch at the "diversity".

Can you elaborate further on the "diversity"? Surprised good or surprised bad. Good meaning: they thought it was all one particular demographic and then they saw more of what they didn't expect. Bad meaning: they thought it was all one particular demographic and then they saw more of what they didn't expect. Fill in the blanks as necessary.

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Can you elaborate further on the "diversity"? Surprised good or surprised bad. Good meaning: they thought it was all one particular demographic and then they saw more of what they didn't expect. Bad meaning: they thought it was all one particular demographic and then they saw more of what they didn't expect. Fill in the blanks as necessary.

They were surprised and or turned off by the number of african americans living and or shopping in the area.

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They were surprised and or turned off by the number of african americans living and or shopping in the area.

Interesting to say the least. I have noticed a plethora of all races in and around Shadow Creek. I can't say with certainty that there are more of any one race than the other. I do feel that some people get turned off if they see even one black family lurking around. What can you do? Clearly the "powers that be" don't mind investing in the Shadow Creek area, so it must be more than skin color that drives business decisions.

On a side note I've asked a few of my Caucasion brothers what the population of Af. Am. is in this country. I get answers like 50%, 40%, 60%. The reality is that we are less than 12% of the US population. Why do you think that they were so far off? The answer might give you insight into why some people see "the brothas" and think "there goes the neighborhood".

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Diversity is what makes Houston the City it is..........Wonderful! God created all, including the trees that money comes from. (Think about it).

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amazing....simply amazing...

I don't need a real estate license or a Phd in rocket science to know anytime you build a new, shiny neighborhood with homes ranging from low to high close to minority neighborhoods, growth patters will follow that way...

it's been going on in Houston for decades...look at these patterns below towards Pearland...Ray Charles could see this coming

WHITES (began and migrated to)

South Park (inside 610) to Bellfort (Crestmont area) to Telephone Road/Fuqua (Gulf Meadows) to Pearland

BLACKS/HISPANICS

South Park/Sunnyside to Bellfort (Crestmont area) to Telephone Road/Fuqua (Gulf Meadows) to Pearland or 3rd Ward to Missouri City to Pearland

any a major street that cuts through a major africian american area, we will follow....

Cullen is 518 and ends in Pearland

2234/McHard is in Missouri City and ends at 288 but will eventually run all the way to Pearland uninterrupted

MLK will run all the way through along with Scott....

why run?

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Interesting to say the least. I have noticed a plethora of all races in and around Shadow Creek. I can't say with certainty that there are more of any one race than the other. I do feel that some people get turned off if they see even one black family lurking around. What can you do? Clearly the "powers that be" don't mind investing in the Shadow Creek area, so it must be more than skin color that drives business decisions.

On a side note I've asked a few of my Caucasion brothers what the population of Af. Am. is in this country. I get answers like 50%, 40%, 60%. The reality is that we are less than 12% of the US population. Why do you think that they were so far off? The answer might give you insight into why some people see "the brothas" and think "there goes the neighborhood".

I think the answer means more than that. I am just trying to keep it real.

Sometimes, in someplaces, when our darker skin bretheren move into a neighborhood in numbers, (let's say using your numbers) for instance, if the number goes over 12% some people (not just white folk) get uncomfortable and move. At some point this trend multiplies because for whatever reason a certain portion of the populous likes to live with people they are comfortable with. So now the demographics for that neighborhood are near the 40%, 50%, 60% and all of the sudden no one feels comfortable, (There are burgalur bars on the windows for instance) so everyone who can moves down the street to the new shiny neighborhood (into the biggest mortgage they can afford, out of fear) and the original neighborhood continues to decline. Fear becomes reality sometimes by our actions.

I am just trying to be candid about people's opinions I have heard about the area. I really hope this development revitalizes the area and people of all colors continue to move there and create there own reality of west pearland. I think the heads look corny too, hopefully once they are incorporated into a theme and some landscaping they will look patriotic? I asked a guy at work about your population quiz, he guessed 26%

Edited by westguy76

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I think the answer means more than that. I am just trying to keep it real.

Sometimes, in someplaces, when our darker skin bretheren move into a neighborhood in numbers, (let's say using your numbers) for instance, if the number goes over 12% some people (not just white folk) get uncomfortable and move. At some point this trend multiplies because for whatever reason a certain portion of the populous likes to live with people they are comfortable with. So now the demographics for that neighborhood are near the 40%, 50%, 60% and all of the sudden no one feels comfortable, (There are burgalur bars on the windows for instance) so everyone who can moves down the street to the new shiny neighborhood (into the biggest mortgage they can afford, out of fear) and the original neighborhood continues to decline. Fear becomes reality sometimes by our actions.

I am just trying to be candid about people's opinions I have heard about the area. I really hope this development revitalizes the area and people of all colors continue to move there and create there own reality of west pearland. I think the heads look corny too, hopefully once they are incorporated into a theme and some landscaping they will look patriotic? I asked a guy at work about your population quiz, he guessed 26%

Not everybody goes as high as 40% - 60%, but even 26% (odd number to guess BTW) is over twice the reality. Still interesting.

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I'm in SCR in one of the neighborhoods where homes originally were built in the $160-$260k range, the vast majority being <$200k.

My neighborhood is extremely diverse. Just going down my street from the houses I know:

Black

Asian

White

Black (was white originally)

White

Asian

Black

Black

Asian

White

White

Black

Indian

Asian/Hispanic

White

Hispanic

Hispanic

Black

South American?

French Canadian? (white)

Then there is a cul-de-sac where 4 of the 6 are Black, other 2 white.

It's probably higher % black then most would expect. We like the neighborhood quite a bit.

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Funny thread! It seems like nowadays the trend is the opposite...white yuppies moving into black neighborhoods. There must be something special about Pearland.

Edited by N Judah

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If everyone was blind and transported to a unknown area and had to live the rest of there lives like that, would issues of race matter? (think about it). Once you think about it you will understand that most are blind with there eyes wide open.

Edited by 97saturn

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If everyone was blind and transported to a unknown area and had to live the rest of there lives like that, would issues of race matter? (think about it). Once you think about it you will understand that most are blind with there eyes wide open.

yes

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I'm in Southern Trails, just south of SCR. I think my street is fairly representative of ST, and it has a diverse mix. My neighbors consist of 2 asian (Vietnamese-American) families, 2 black families, 1 Indian family, 2 white families, and 2 mixed families (white-asian, white-hispanic). I haven't been living here long, but everyone seems nice (we are all fairly new to the street), and the vibe seems good. I'm optomistic.

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So did a thread about the "Waterlights District" get turned into a discussion of race? I don't get it.

Anyhow, my street has 4 white/anglo households (two of whom are gay or lesbian), 3 African-American/black households, 2 Asian-American households, 1 Hispanic household, and one mixed-race Hispanic/Asian-American household. I tell people I'm living in a little United Nations, or maybe a little melting pot. This isn't the old one-race-versus-another-race situation of the 1960s. This is just people, living as neighbors, and it's part of what I love about living here in SCR.

Of course, my point of view is someone who grew up as a Air Force brat, lived in Japan and Guam before finishing growing up in majority-Hispanic San Antonio, lived in black-majority DC, lived in a mixed-race neighborhood in San Diego, lived in East-End Galveston, and now I'm here. My two brothers both also married women of a different race (well, they're all of the human race, but you know what I mean). I just think this is normal. We're all people first.

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My demographics comment was not meant to turn the discussion to race but merely an attempt to explain why west Pearland had not been developed sooner. All the attributes that developers are touting today ( 15 minutes to the Medical Center, etc) were appropriate to the discussion in the early 80's when they first built Southwycke. The diversity of the area is certainly one of the things that I think has contributed to its growth. My only concern as I have stated on numerous other threads is the rapid growth without much thought to the consiquinces of that growth. I commented on the Pearland blog at the Chronicle that my fear for 518 from Friendswood to 288 is that it will become the 1960 of this decade. Drive 1960 from 45 to 249 sometime and look at the general run down state of the area. Unchecked growth caused the addition of numerous strip centers and neighborhoods to the area that added tons of traffic lights and congestion ruining the visual appeal and mobility in the area. 518 is headed the same way. There are numerous strip centers that are new with no tenants and more being built every day. At McClean and 518 in front of the movie theatres is an addition that has gone unleased for over four years and yet developers continue to build. There are no less than 8 signs between 2351 and 288 advertising new retail centers going in with all the unrented ones still out there. Pearlands master plan that City Council has so often touted is not being followed and their unbridled enthusiasm for the additional revenues from taxes have caused them to throw the plan out the window. The Waterlight district is a great project and more power to the developers but I really don't understand how so many other developers continue to see the need to build in an over supplied market that is Pearland today.

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Don't see how you can compare a big development like the Waterlight District to small strip centers. Retailers would located easily into a development like WD over a strip center down away from the freeway.

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again...MLK, Cullen and Scott will all flow freely into 518.....if you fear the natural growth, you may as well start looking past Angleton for the next getaway community......

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again...MLK, Cullen and Scott will all flow freely into 518.....if you fear the natural growth, you may as well start looking past Angleton for the next getaway community......

Hmm, I wonder why residents on MLK, Cullen, and Scott haven't moved to Bellaire or West University. After all, MLK, Cullen, and Scott pretty much flow freely into those neighborhoods. And why haven't the lower income neighborhoods bordering I45N expanded westward into the Heights? And why hasn't the Galleria become an extension of the Third Ward - isn't it just minutes away?

Please stop with the "OH NO, PEOPLE WILL BE ATTRACTED TO PEARLAND" nonsense. Every successful area / city in Houston is surrounded by lower income neighborhoods, that's just how it is in a metropolis.

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mlk, cullen, scott stop at 3rd ward....pull out a map please.....

it's natural movement....developers are greedy and will build affordable housing by any means necessary in certain areas which makes it easy to move out there....

technically...the I-45 north folks have migrated north to Spring and 1960.....

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mlk, cullen, scott stop at 3rd ward....pull out a map please.....

it's natural movement....developers are greedy and will build affordable housing by any means necessary in certain areas which makes it easy to move out there....

technically...the I-45 north folks have migrated north to Spring and 1960.....

Depends on what you mean by "affordable" housing. If you mean homes similar to what's being built in City Park, then I doubt if you'll see that in Pearland.

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why not? Each of these "master planned" neighborhoods have ways to get in there.....the back of shadow creek is an example...

Rodeo Palms intended to be a high end community but realized the market is not out there for that type so they sold their lots to mainstream builders...

not sure of pearland's zoning but mock my words, those type of developments will be out there to make a quick buck...there's a reason why the tax credit apartments pop up on all sides of town

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The white folks have moved in closer to town, to the detriment of many African American communities closer in. Same story as anywhere else...

Edited by N Judah

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why not? Each of these "master planned" neighborhoods have ways to get in there.....the back of shadow creek is an example...

Rodeo Palms intended to be a high end community but realized the market is not out there for that type so they sold their lots to mainstream builders...

not sure of pearland's zoning but mock my words, those type of developments will be out there to make a quick buck...there's a reason why the tax credit apartments pop up on all sides of town

I think that the two of you are talking about two different types of housing. You, HBCU, are talking about tax credit mulit-family apartments (which I don't think Pearland will allow on the westside b/c of zoning and the process to change it) and the other poster is talking about those "affordable" single family homes that say KB Homes is building North of Beltway-8 (near the City Park area). Either way I personally don't see either of those types of dwelling being developed in the Shadow Creek (i.e. westside) area. This master planned community will stick to its master plan.

Again, the key to these types of developments from not happening in Pearland is zoning. Shadow Creek/ST are the only parcels zoned for single or multi family dwellings between Beltway 8 and 518, 288 and Almeda. Everything else is commercial type zoning. In order for someone to build anything different they have to seek a variance request to change the zoning. That's where it will get hung up or else they won't issue a permit.

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I think that the two of you are talking about two different types of housing. You, HBCU, are talking about tax credit mulit-family apartments (which I don't think Pearland will allow on the westside b/c of zoning and the process to change it) and the other poster is talking about those "affordable" single family homes that say KB Homes is building North of Beltway-8 (near the City Park area). Either way I personally don't see either of those types of dwelling being developed in the Shadow Creek (i.e. westside) area. This master planned community will stick to its master plan.

Again, the key to these types of developments from not happening in Pearland is zoning. Shadow Creek/ST are the only parcels zoned for single or multi family dwellings between Beltway 8 and 518, 288 and Almeda. Everything else is commercial type zoning. In order for someone to build anything different they have to seek a variance request to change the zoning. That's where it will get hung up or else they won't issue a permit.

ITA. Zoning is the key. I hope to never see any of the "cheesy" KB type homes in West Pearland period. Rodeo Palms is overall a nice community. I don't see anything that remotely looks like "City Park" in that community.

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ITA. Zoning is the key. I hope to never see any of the "cheesy" KB type homes in West Pearland period. Rodeo Palms is overall a nice community. I don't see anything that remotely looks like "City Park" in that community.

I must also agree. My building super told me in late 2007 that Pearland & the SoT require 23 different permits/inspections over the course of constructing a new home. Complying with those kinds of codes is not done cheaply, which should keep the low-end builders out. At least that is the theory... :mellow:

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http://blogs.chron.com/pearland/

More presidents coming to Pearland! And maybe some high-end restaurants Many folks who traverse Texas 288 to and from work each day have become good acquaintances with Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, George Herbert Walker Bush, Franklin D. Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy.

The U.S. presidents, whose busts guard the entrance to the WaterLight District's Presidential Park & Gardens south of Beltway 8, have become familiar sights.

But where are the rest of the presidents coming? When will construction on the project start? What restaurants and hotels are coming in?

Over the past few weeks, I've gotten more than a few e-mails from readers asking just these questions, as well as wondering whether the souring economy is giving prospective retailers pause.

I jumped on the horn to talk to David Goswick, executive director of Historic Real Estate, the developers of the project, to get the latest scoop on the project.

Here's what he told me on Monday:

Within three weeks, people will start to see movement of dirt on our site. We'll be under construction by July 28. We'll start construction of the Grand Canal and bring in all the infrastructure for Phase 1 of WaterLights.

The first phase of the project includes 150,000 square feet of Class A office space; 100,000 square feet of retail; 50,000 square feet of medical office space; 300 luxury apartments; 32 condos overlooking a canal; a hotel; four restaurants; and a wine bar, Goswick said.

Phase II will bring in more two hotels, retail outlets, condominiums and more restaurants - 14 in all. The restaurants on the first floor will have outdoor terraces, and above them will be offices and residential condos and lofts.

Phase III will bring a mix of brownstones, condos and flats overlooking the water, Goswick said, noting that the total project should be completed within five years, by 2013.

I shifted to some more pointed questions in my telephone interview with Goswick, like whether retailers are getting skittish about moving there. Here's what he told me:

We have had no reluctance at all. The
is proceeding as fast as we possibly can with planning and construction. The planning and approval process is taking a little longer, but it's due to refining the plan. When you create a very special place, it takes time.

What about the other U.S. presidents planned for the site? Here's what Goswick said:

The statues have all been completed and are expected to be moved to the site (between November 2008 and March 2009). We can only move two statues per 18-wheeler, and it will require 20 trucks to move all of the busts to the site. We don't want to move the statues more than once because they weigh 7,000 pounds each.

I asked Goswick how much weight his company is putting on the results of a restaurant poll that Historic Homes conducted in January, in which 8,600 residents voted regarding what eateries they would like to see. Here's what he said:

What we keep hearing over and over is that consumers want a unique experience along The Restaurant Row. They do not want the same chains of restaurants that they can go to at any Houston freeway and experience.

Goswick declined to reveal the names of the restaurants that have signed agreements so far, pointing to a mutual nondisclosure agreement with each of the development partners.

Sherry Stockwell, new board chairwoman of the Pearland Area Chamber of Commerce, said that just about everyone she has talked to about WaterLights wants to see 'high-end' restaurants there. She elaborated:

What we'd like to see, and I think they're hoping to accomplish, are some restaurants that are high end and that have their own chefs, and not necessarily the typical restaurants you would think of.

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Somehow the idea of high end "eateries" (is that even a word?) surrounded by gigantic presidential heads strikes me as a bit incongruous, although I can't quite say why.

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http://blogs.chron.com/pearland/

More presidents coming to Pearland! And maybe some high-end restaurants Many folks who traverse Texas 288 to and from work each day have become good acquaintances with Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, George Herbert Walker Bush, Franklin D. Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy.

The U.S. presidents, whose busts guard the entrance to the WaterLight District's Presidential Park & Gardens south of Beltway 8, have become familiar sights.

But where are the rest of the presidents coming? When will construction on the project start? What restaurants and hotels are coming in?

Over the past few weeks, I've gotten more than a few e-mails from readers asking just these questions, as well as wondering whether the souring economy is giving prospective retailers pause.

I jumped on the horn to talk to David Goswick, executive director of Historic Real Estate, the developers of the project, to get the latest scoop on the project.

Here's what he told me on Monday:

Within three weeks, people will start to see movement of dirt on our site. We'll be under construction by July 28. We'll start construction of the Grand Canal and bring in all the infrastructure for Phase 1 of WaterLights.

The first phase of the project includes 150,000 square feet of Class A office space; 100,000 square feet of retail; 50,000 square feet of medical office space; 300 luxury apartments; 32 condos overlooking a canal; a hotel; four restaurants; and a wine bar, Goswick said.

Phase II will bring in more two hotels, retail outlets, condominiums and more restaurants - 14 in all. The restaurants on the first floor will have outdoor terraces, and above them will be offices and residential condos and lofts.

Phase III will bring a mix of brownstones, condos and flats overlooking the water, Goswick said, noting that the total project should be completed within five years, by 2013.

I shifted to some more pointed questions in my telephone interview with Goswick, like whether retailers are getting skittish about moving there. Here's what he told me:

We have had no reluctance at all. The
is proceeding as fast as we possibly can with planning and construction. The planning and approval process is taking a little longer, but it's due to refining the plan. When you create a very special place, it takes time.

What about the other U.S. presidents planned for the site? Here's what Goswick said:

The statues have all been completed and are expected to be moved to the site (between November 2008 and March 2009). We can only move two statues per 18-wheeler, and it will require 20 trucks to move all of the busts to the site. We don't want to move the statues more than once because they weigh 7,000 pounds each.

I asked Goswick how much weight his company is putting on the results of a restaurant poll that Historic Homes conducted in January, in which 8,600 residents voted regarding what eateries they would like to see. Here's what he said:

What we keep hearing over and over is that consumers want a unique experience along The Restaurant Row. They do not want the same chains of restaurants that they can go to at any Houston freeway and experience.

Goswick declined to reveal the names of the restaurants that have signed agreements so far, pointing to a mutual nondisclosure agreement with each of the development partners.

Sherry Stockwell, new board chairwoman of the Pearland Area Chamber of Commerce, said that just about everyone she has talked to about WaterLights wants to see 'high-end' restaurants there. She elaborated:

What we'd like to see, and I think they're hoping to accomplish, are some restaurants that are high end and that have their own chefs, and not necessarily the typical restaurants you would think of.

I'm glad to hear that most people out here want some higher-end restaurants. I'm literally sick of Chili's, Olive Garden and TGI Fridays. Give us Vic & Anthony's, Grand Luxe, Cheesecake Factory, Brennan's...etc.

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I'm glad to hear that most people out here want some higher-end restaurants. I'm literally sick of Chili's, Olive Garden and TGI Fridays. Give us Vic & Anthony's, Grand Luxe, Cheesecake Factory, Brennan's...etc.

really shooting for the stars there, are we?

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