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nmm

Most Influential Nations

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Just for fun, i was wondering how people years from to date would look at the world in the year 2007.

I goofed around and came up with a list of the more influential nations in the world at the moment. I based my list on a nation's economy, military, cultural influence, projected image, and most of all influence in world affairs.

Critique mine or create your own.

1. United States of America

2. United Kingdom

3. China - Zhongguo

4. Germany

5. Russia

6. Japan

7. France

8. Australia

9. India

10. Brazil

How do you judge?

Edited by nmm

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Influental in 2007:

  1. United States
  2. China
  3. Russia
  4. Iran
  5. Japan

Rising Stars:

  1. China
  2. Iran
  3. United Arab Emirates
  4. India
  5. Jordan
  6. Indonesia? Maybe.

Not as important as they think they are:

  1. France
  2. Germany
  3. England
  4. Canada
  5. Central and South America
  6. Israel
  7. India

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Hi, a couple of things:

1. it is very hard to quantify something as "influence". That said, it is quite clear that the United States is the dominant hegemon in the world today. Maybe you can throw in the rest of the G-8 members (although, Italy? oh well the problem starts) and the most populous nations that aren't members of the G-8 such as China (also for other obvious reasons), India, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan (??)....

2. another problem with this kind of list is the EU. Western Europe (and I say Western Europe since the new member nations do not share this ideal yet) has tried to develop into some kind of supranational state while still keeping the identities intact as souvereign nations. In recent years the EU has tried to pursue a more unified approach to diplomacy. Sure, each and every member state might not be "as important as they think they are" but taken together it is somewhere between the US and China... (in terms of political clout). Of course there is a lot of internal bickering, but hey, that's why it is still a long shot to even become a second pole in a potentialy bipolar or multipolar world order...

3. UAE (of which Dubai is a constituent state) and Nigeria, I guess that's kinda a petrocentric world view, but that's understable with Houston being the energy capital and all :P ). I guess we might group at least some of the OPEC nations together perhaps...

4. JORDAN? WTF? Jordan? OK, I've calmed down now :closedeyes:

PS: nmm, I don't wanna appear pedantic, but since I've studied the language: it's Zhongguo (first tone, second tone), or if you prefer Wade-Giles Chongkuo.

Edited by krix

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4. JORDAN? WTF? Jordan? OK, I've calmed down now :closedeyes:

I guess I should explain that one. Jordan has been working behind-the-scenes on a lot of the Middle Eastern diplomacy these days. Also, the only way to get between certain countries by airplane sometimes (Israel<>Lebanon) is through Jordan, so a lot of the diplomats and negotiators are meeting each other half-way there.

I don't think Jordan will become an economic power, but I think it sees the isolation being imposed on Syria and has chosen to play ball with the West.

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I guess I should explain that one. Jordan has been working behind-the-scenes on a lot of the Middle Eastern diplomacy these days. Also, the only way to get between certain countries by airplane sometimes (Israel<>Lebanon) is through Jordan, so a lot of the diplomats and negotiators are meeting each other half-way there.

I don't think Jordan will become an economic power, but I think it sees the isolation being imposed on Syria and has chosen to play ball with the West.

well, but still. This situation with Jordan as a go-between has been going on for quite some time, you know, even going back to the days of ol' King Hussein. So I don't see how it could be a rising star.. Also, there might be a lot of other smaller states that might have gained in importance but that still doesn't make them important on a global scale.

On a different note, here's hoping that after the French chose their new president, the change of power will be quick in the UK as well, and the EU can try and revive its stalled constitutional process. If they are able to pull this off, the EU would truly be one of the rising stars of this year (but let's not get our hopes too high...)

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On a different note, here's hoping that after the French chose their new president, the change of power will be quick in the UK as well, and the EU can try and revive its stalled constitutional process. If they are able to pull this off, the EU would truly be one of the rising stars of this year (but let's not get our hopes too high...)

No kidding. I'm with you on this one. It would be nice if the new guy would give his country and the region the common sense kick-in-the-butt it needs, but I'm not sure how much one person can do.

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No kidding. I'm with you on this one. It would be nice if the new guy would give his country and the region the common sense kick-in-the-butt it needs, but I'm not sure how much one person can do.

yes, the ironic thing is that while he was denounced across Western Europe as being too America-friendly (and anti-immigrant, despite being a son of immigrants himself), he also seems to be the candidate with the more proactive approach towards reforming the institutions of the EU.

But you're right that one person can only do so much, but what I also meant was that as long as the French and the British haven't decided about their change of leadership, nothing substantial will get done in Europe anyway (Angela Merkel of Germany, for instance, has also been keen on reform, but hasn't been able to achieve much under the current situation)...

Edited by krix

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On a different note, here's hoping that after the French chose their new president, the change of power will be quick in the UK as well, and the EU can try and revive its stalled constitutional process. If they are able to pull this off, the EU would truly be one of the rising stars of this year (but let's not get our hopes too high...)

By the way, thanks for the correction (Zhongguo).

Edited by nmm

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Influental in 2007:
  1. United States
  2. China
  3. Russia
  4. Iran
  5. Japan

Rising Stars:

  1. China
  2. Iran
  3. United Arab Emirates
  4. India
  5. Jordan
  6. Indonesia? Maybe.

Not as important as they think they are:

  1. France
  2. Germany
  3. England
  4. Canada
  5. Central and South America
  6. Israel
  7. India

Nice. Definitely, Russia and China will be big players this century. China more than Russia (it had its chance).

Iran is the little guy with a big mouth. The only reason it has any influence is because Iraq is majority Shia and Iraq traditionally used to be a province of Iran, along with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan (all the -istan nations). Moreover, most of Central Asia speaks some form of Persian (Bastardized Farsi). Iran also happens to be the most aggressive Muslim nation at the moment, but i think things will change internally. Plus they want to bomb Israel for some reason. I think it has to do with politics.

I chose Brazil because of its rising economic status, its population, and it being the anchor nation for South America. Mexico is important too but not as much as Brazil.

I forgot about Israel, definitely should have been on the list, in which case Brazil would bump off.

India im not to sure about. They are still corrupt, extremely corrupt. They do have an exploding economy, but draconian government establishment. Plus i have a hard time understanding how that nation is supposed to move forward with such a huge population. All in all, India will become the Canada to China's "USA" status. However, its hard to deny it anchor's South Asia and it has a huge population. Greater India stretches all the way from Indonesia and Malaysia to Afghanistan. It has a huge sphere of cultural influence. India is to South Asia & SouthEast Asia as the Roman Empire was to Europe.

Germany is the financial center of the EU. Frankfurt is the center of the EU economy. France has a huge cultural influence. In parts of Africa and Asia people actually use French as a prime ways of communication.

Most of the nations on my list have been Imperial Nations in the past 20th century.

Edited by nmm

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I agree with you about India. In spite of the outsourcing hype, it's still an agrarian economy. 700 million people there are farmers. That's twice as many farmers as America has people! Electricity and clean water are still in short supply, even in the most developed cities. Change will be slow.

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Guest Marty

I would think Japan would rank higher on the list, Maybe #2 in the eyes of the younger generation, just look at all the animation art like cartoons and video game's.

Edited by Marty

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I would think Japan would rank higher on the list, Maybe #2 in the eyes of the younger generation, just look at all the animation art like cartoons and video game's.

Cartoons and games are actually a very very small part of Japan's influence around the world.

Look out your window. Chances are you'll see a Japanese car somewhere. What are the big names in electronics? Japanese (and more and more Korean). The Japanese are huge in a number of industries, but we're innured to seeing the names. Hatachi and other Japanese companies make cranes and construction equipment. The largest bank in the world is the Japanese Post Office. In developed nations the Japanese sell electronics. In developing nations they build water treatment plants. The Japaneses are among the biggest countried rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they're going into Africa, too. The Japanese are everywhere, but we don't always realize it.

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Guest Marty

I would say Japan is a poster child for what a country can do in a half of a century after a A- Bomb has been drop on you. I always wonder if the USA would have made a rebound like Japan did?

Edited by Marty

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So maybe this is what a more approriate list looks like?

1. United States of America

2. United Kingdom

3. China - Zhongguo

4. Japan

5. Russia

6. Germany

7. Israel

8. France

9. Saudi Arabia

10. India

11. Iran

12. Australia

13. Brazil

14. Mexico

15. South Korea

Again its hard to exactlly point out who is an infleuntial nation, but i think my criteria is to realize who is one of the bigger "movers and shakers" of our time.

Edited by nmm

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Australia? I know it's important regionally (every time some island or another had a riot, it's always .oz to the rescue), but globally?

I still dispute Brazil. I think it's overvalued.

And Mexico? Not even close. No one outside of Central America, or the American border states cares about what happens in Mexico.

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So maybe this is what a more approriate list looks like?

1. United States of America

2. United Kingdom

3. China - Zhongguo

4. Japan

5. Russia

6. Germany

7. Israel

8. France

9. Saudi Arabia

10. India

11. Iran

12. Australia

13. Brazil

14. Mexico

15. South Korea

Again its hard to exactlly point out who is an infleuntial nation, but i think my criteria is to realize who is one of the bigger "movers and shakers" of our time.

Iran will be noisy but not influential. Depending on how the war ends, Iraq would be a better fit in the your #11 Iran slot.

Another five years or so, with permanent US military bases in place (key ingredient), Iraq could be a booming oil producing, cosmopolitan place of investment and democracy. Toss in some word class universities and voila, it's the new Prague. Much more powerful than Iran in influence.

Also, the USA in the top slot fifty years hence is simply wishful thinking. We're losing our culture too quickly; if carrying capacity is reached, America will tumble right off your list. The next hundred years will belong to the Asians.

Edited by Toggle3

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Influental in 2007:
  1. United States
  2. China
  3. Russia
  4. Iran
  5. Japan

Rising Stars:

  1. China
  2. Iran
  3. United Arab Emirates
  4. India
  5. Jordan
  6. Indonesia? Maybe.

Not as important as they think they are:

  1. France
  2. Germany
  3. England
  4. Canada
  5. Central and South America
  6. Israel
  7. India

How in the world did I not see this before when nmm posted this thread. I am ROFLMFAO, over this post. I totally agree with it, but I don't really see how China can be both a top three AND a rising star at the same time. I will disagree on one point though. Israel, I see Israel as VERY important, to safeguard our interests in the Middle East. That is, if we are going to have interest in the Middle East. They are a PITBULL, when it comes to being in a dogfight. We are lucky that we can control that leash when we need to though. They are truly, the ONLY friend we have over there. They may not be as important as THEY think they are, but they are definately as important as WE(the USA) think they are.

Edited by TJones

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I would say Japan is a poster child for what a country can do in a half of a century after a A- Bomb has been drop on you. I always wonder if the USA would have made a rebound like Japan did?

Sorry to double post, again, I just saw this thread, so I had to comment on Marty's post here.

Japan shows what a country can do in a half a century with US money backing it all the way. USA helped rebuild Japan in the following years after the war. It is because of the US, that you and the children around you have those video games. Look at the Japanime, they all look Westernized, right. That is the same type of influence we have on the whole world.

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Guest Marty
Sorry to double post, again, I just saw this thread, so I had to comment on Marty's post here.

Japan shows what a country can do in a half a century with US money backing it all the way. USA helped rebuild Japan in the following years after the war. It is because of the US, that you and the children around you have those video games. Look at the Japanime, they all look Westernized, right. That is the same type of influence we have on the whole world.

I knew that, that's why I started to daydream off topic with the if the US could rebound comment. ;)

Edited by Marty

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Iran will be noisy but not influential. Depending on how the war ends, Iraq would be a better fit in the your #11 Iran slot.

Another five years or so, with permanent US military bases in place (key ingredient), Iraq could be a booming oil producing, cosmopolitan place of investment and democracy. Toss in some word class universities and voila, it's the new Prague. Much more powerful than Iran in influence.

Also, the USA in the top slot fifty years hence is simply wishful thinking. We're losing our culture too quickly; if carrying capacity is reached, America will tumble right off your list. The next hundred years will belong to the Asians.

Iraq will be lucky to exist in 5 years. There is no political stability whatsoever. If the oddsmakers were taking bets, Iraq is probably closer to splitting apart than a functioning sovereign nation. The oil infrastructure is so decimated from 12 years of economic sanctions, followed by sabotage, that some estimates for rebuilding it are in the $100 Billion range. There may be hope that it is stabilized in 5 years, but Iraq will not be influential for decades, if ever.

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Sorry to double post, again, I just saw this thread, so I had to comment on Marty's post here.

Japan shows what a country can do in a half a century with US money backing it all the way. USA helped rebuild Japan in the following years after the war. It is because of the US, that you and the children around you have those video games. Look at the Japanime, they all look Westernized, right. That is the same type of influence we have on the whole world.

Thats definitely true. There are two things that i like about Japan though, when the US was negotiating the surrender treaty with Japan, the Japanese wouldnt allow 2 things: the loss of the Emperor (who is like Britain's Queen in modern day - politics wise) and that they would be allowed to control their own education.

They gave up the military for the sake of education. And today they are rebuilding their military at a fast pace.

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Iran will be noisy but not influential. Depending on how the war ends, Iraq would be a better fit in the your #11 Iran slot.

Another five years or so, with permanent US military bases in place (key ingredient), Iraq could be a booming oil producing, cosmopolitan place of investment and democracy. Toss in some word class universities and voila, it's the new Prague. Much more powerful than Iran in influence.

Also, the USA in the top slot fifty years hence is simply wishful thinking. We're losing our culture too quickly; if carrying capacity is reached, America will tumble right off your list. The next hundred years will belong to the Asians.

Iran has more going for it than Iraq does. If it suceeds it will be America's 51st state. If it falls, Iran will pick up the pieces. Iran and Turkey are the only ones that can do anything substantial anyways. Iraq was a European invention post WW 1, and it will probably collapse now. It cant be sustained with such a warring heterogenous population.

America will stay on the top 5 list. China and Russia will probably reach a position where they can economically match or outdo the US, and militarily match Europe. India just wants to take over the smaller nations around it to recreate itsself post partition.

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How in the world did I not see this before when nmm posted this thread. I am ROFLMFAO, over this post. I totally agree with it, but I don't really see how China can be both a top three AND a rising star at the same time. I will disagree on one point though. Israel, I see Israel as VERY important, to safeguard our interests in the Middle East. That is, if we are going to have interest in the Middle East. They are a PITBULL, when it comes to being in a dogfight. We are lucky that we can control that leash when we need to though. They are truly, the ONLY friend we have over there. They may not be as important as THEY think they are, but they are definately as important as WE(the USA) think they are.

Well i figure just because a nation is rising doesnt mean it cant also be a global influence. Meaning, they havent reached their apex yet, but they manage to control global affairs in their current state. Theres more to come of the inventions, culture, style, learning that China will spread over the world; they are right now in the position the US was in 1890.

Israel is important in the sense they represent the Jews of the world and they have geopolitical influence. I should have made room for them.

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Well i figure just because a nation is rising doesnt mean it cant also be a global influence. Meaning, they havent reached their apex yet, but they manage to control global affairs in their current state. Theres more to come of the inventions, culture, style, learning that China will spread over the world; they are right now in the position the US was in 1890.

Israel is important in the sense they represent the Jews of the world and they have geopolitical influence. I should have made room for them.

China has a big voice because they have nukes and the USA thinks they have a propensity to use them, if they want. I have noticed lately that the mediahounds jump all over anything NEGATIVE as it relates to China. I believe that if China continues to keep exporting bad goods, that they will lose their biggest source of income, us. I say that we will give them about 10 more tries before we say enough is enough. At what cost will it have taken by then though? Does China export the same TAINTED goods to other foreign countries or do they just think that they can do it to us and get away with it ?

Oh, and if Israel didn't have nukes from us, there would be no Israel, at least not in that region. It is my strong belief that Israel should have been created in Germany after WW2, as part of Germany's surrender.

I wasn't really laughing at YOUR list nmm. I happen to think it is avery good list, I just don't agree with a couple of choices, but for the most part it is right on.

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The most influential in the world? The US is obvious. The most influential to the the US? Israel is propped up by the US because of US political Jewish interests just as the Saudis are supported by US oil interests. So if you want to point to the most influential nations, I suggest you point your fingers in their direction. If you're interested in they're not being that influential then consider Israel on par with Cuba (another minority with exagerated influence) and with developing a new source of energy (hydrogen?) which would render the middle east irrelevant to our energy needs. Of course if you don't want any of the above, just continue to support the same-old-same-old. So indirectly I would choose Israel and Saudi because they drive our foregn policy; and the US drives the world for better or worse.

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They have the technological and material abilities to play catch up but only within 20 years.

Edited by nmm

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