Downtown Skyscraper Lighting

[MidtownCoog]

I think we should take a page from Sydney and turn off the lights at night.

Glitz and glamour vs. global warming.

Just save the energy.

[GovernorAggie]

On a side note, Toyota Center had a great lighting scheme last night, IMO. There were basically red floodlights that lit the bottow of the silver bottom to the buildings roof. Very subtle. Very classy.

[tigereye]

What's up forumers. I think that it's great that our downtown is becoming more of a livable neighborhood. Inspired by the "Dallas Lights Up Another One" thread, i decided to write a letter to Central Houston.

If this has been done before on this forum, i apologize. I'm writing a letter to improve the lighting on Houston's skyline. I was hoping i could get a few of you to write some more letters backing me up on this one. Maybe it will have a better chance of being done. I don't think Houston should strive to be like Dallas or anything like that but we all know that our skyline at night could use some vast improvement.

Here's a sample of what i've written so far:

Hello Mr. Bob Eury,

My name is (my real name) and I am a resident of Houston, TX. I keep up with all the upcoming projects and efforts to revitalize downtown Houston. I want to commend all the efforts that are being made to revitalize the city center such as: Houston Pavilions, Main Street Square, One Park Place, and Discovery Green.

I understand your time is valuable so I

[H-Town Man]

Forget about tacky neon lighting. Just turn on some of the lights in the offices.

I'm watching the game tonight against Utah, and every time they show a downtown shot, I keep thinking, "What are all those black rectangles? Oh yeah, those are skyscrapers!" It reminded me of those Andreas Feininger pictures of New York during the World War II blackouts - here and there a window is lit up, but everything else is dark.

That, and their ground level shots were HORRIBLE. They went from place to place all over the Aquarium/Bayou Place/Tranquility Park area, and every spot they found was dark and depressing. I was worried about the safety of the camera crew - it is not a good idea to be in such a dark place with all that expensive equipment. The Bayou in front of the Aquarium did not look lit up at all.

Finally they found the dancing fountains at the Aquarium where there was a few people, and it just emphasized the sorriness of our nightlife... here is a guy walking by holding a camera, here are a few measly spurts of water, and in the back, a bunch of dark skyscrapers. Way to go, Houston.

[KimberlySayWhat]

I think TNT recycled those shots. I've seen that same guy wearing that striped shirt at the Aquarium fountains before.

[H-Town Man]

I think TNT recycled those shots. I've seen that same guy wearing that striped shirt at the Aquarium fountains before.

Interesting.

[Jax]

I thought this photo might help with your discussion.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Jax

[Urbannomad]

Maybe it's not an issue right now, but if a major goal of downtown is to bring in full time residents then adding even more bright lighting probably isn't a great idea. I lived in downtown Salt Lake City for a few years and they had this stupid blinking red light on a building, that looked cool from the freeway but sucked when it would light up my apt all night... I think they actually turned most of the lights on the highrises off around midnight which helped. But I guess it all depends on what you want downtown to be, a token colorful post card image, or an actual vibrant neighborhood with much better "low-level" street-scenes. Or maybe you can figure out a way to do both.

[firstngoal]

I've never understood the objections people have to illuminated skylines in Houston. Would Las Vegas get half as many pictures of its hotels if they weren't lit up? No. You'd see generic pictures of the inside of gambling halls that look like the casino brochures from Macau, Vienna, London, or anywhere else.

Houston's skyline is stunning -- but only from select angles (Eleanor Tinsley park being the best example). Even today, some of the publicity photos I see of Houston are of the skyline lit up from the old Power of Houston days.

I think there's a way to accomplish both goals -- light up the sky, but still be tasteful. There has to be some middle ground.

I think you are dead on. I don't live in Houston any longer, but get back often on business. I'm always amazed at how dull and lackluster the skyline appears at night... especially in comparison to cities with skylines that aren't nearly as impressive. I saw the Rockets game, too... and the shots in front of the Aquarium were lame-o. It looked like Lake Charles!... not America's 4th largest city.

Regarding the energy argument... it find it amusing - and a little strange - that cities that tout themselves as "green" and progressive, such as Austin, Portland, and Seattle (where I currently live), have well-lit, beautiful skylines at night... while Houston, a city which consumes more energy than just about any other American city - and where air conditioners whirl 24 hours a day - can't seem to find the will or the leadership to market their skyline (which is really the city's most exciting visual element) at night. Billboards, furniture warehouses, and strip clubs light up the night sky much more than Houston's skyline... if people are concerned about lights drowning out the stars, start by eliminating that kind of light-blight first....

Hell, even if the owners of the Bank of America Tower would light up the setbacks of their building at night, the skyline would look 100% better! Oh, and would someone please unplug those cheap looking white Christmas lights on top of the Chase Tower and the Houston Center buildings??... that looks positively sad.

Edited May 9, 2007 by firstngoal

[GovernorAggie]

Billboards, furniture warehouses, and strip clubs light up the night sky much more than Houston's skyline... if people are concerned about lights drowning out the stars, start by eliminating that kind of light-blight first....

Good point. Now that I think about, driving in on 45 South, downtown's skyline is definitely like an afterthought after Gallery Furniture and everything else grabs your attention with their flashy signage (actually in a not-so-safe way, directional and guide signs on 45 are like an afterthought, too!).

[Vertigo58]

Jax photo:

One of the best I have ever seen of our skyline. Looks dreamlike.

I still want to live in a Bladerunner world though. Ridley Scott where are you? >

[C2H]

This topic is something that i've always been in support of. I started a similar topic related to this long time ago on the old HAIF thread before it crashed.

Everytime i'm in Houston, i wonder why the City doesn't highlight the best aspects of the city (i.e. the Skyline). I think its great that they started to light the Buffalo Bayou with the blue flood lights. I think they should do it every night instead of a few nights every month. They should also paint the columns under that portion of the freeway and clean the Bayou more. Last time i was there, the Bayou was starting to look neglected again.

As far as the skyscrapers, i can't help but wonder why some people in this city don't think that Houston's night skyline needs improvement. I didn't at all understand Redscare and Musicman's opening comments at the beginning of this thread. When i was watching the MLB World Series last year, i was a tad embarassed when they showed Houston's dim lit skyline in the back when comparing it to the light show Chicago did. I don't know what it is, but people like lights. It makes a city seem more vibrant and upbeat. Take it from someone who visits Houston quite frequently like myself. I always like hanging out in the Uptown/Galleria area because it seems like the center of Houston's activity. Downtown sort of seems like it sits in Uptown's shadow. Yes, partly the reason is because of the way downtown Houston is so poorly lit at night. Even though Main Street is lit up nice, everything surrounding it makes it seem like Pleasantville.

To improve Houston's skyline at night, the first thing that downtown owners need to do is to remove the white christmas lights from the rooftops. Whoever thought that would look good needs to be fired. Christmas lights on a building doesn't even flow well for a skyline. Its like they just light it for the sake of lighting it so an airplane won't crash into them. The Christmas light concept might work well in smaller cities like Baton Rouge, Fort Worth, or even Tulsa. If Houston wants to be treated more like the 4th largest city, it needs to start acting like it. For a visual example, Houston should look to it's neighbor 238 miles north.

Scarface, you have my support. I've already written a letter last time this topic was brought up several years ago. I still think the more letters that get out, the better chance of something getting done. Let's do it folks!

PS. Thanks for the address

Central Houston: New Phone #(713-650-3022

Robert Eury

909 Fannin Suite 1650

Houston, TX 77010

Edited May 10, 2007 by C2H

[Metro Matt]

Not trying to bring Dallas in on this discussion, but lets face it their night skyline puts Houston's to shame. On a clear night I've seen Downtown Dallas from 30 miles away glistening in the night sky over the vast North Texas prairie.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Metro Matt

[RedScare]

Not trying to bring Dallas in on this discussion, but lets face it their night skyline puts Houston's to shame. On a clear night I've seen Downtown Dallas from 30 miles away glistening in the night sky over the vast prairie land.

Yeah, it must be cool to see that buglamp from 30 miles away.

[C2H]

Yeah, it must be cool to see that buglamp from 30 miles away.

You can hate on Dallas all you want but Dallas's colors look better in the night sky than Houston's christmas lights. It looks too much like lighting was an afterthought.

I'm not saying that H should try to be like Dallas, but Houston's building owners need to hire some lighting architects to where they can light up the buildings in a tasteful manner without being too gaudy or showy.

Edited May 10, 2007 by C2H

[KinkaidAlum]

You can hate on Dallas all you want but Dallas's colors look better in the night sky than Houston's christmas lights. It looks too much like lighting was an afterthought.

I'm not saying that H should try to be like Dallas, but Houston's building owners need to hire some lighting architects to where they can light up the buildings in a tasteful manner without being too gaudy or showy.

PRIORITIES, people!

Downtown Houston tower owners are focused on what really matters...signing tenants.

I'll take downtown Houston's night time "darkness" any day over downtown Dallas' day time dilemna (high vacancy rates, more firms moving out of downtown to Victory and Uptown proposals).

Here are the stats;

NET ABSORPTION in 1st quarter of 2007

570,000 square feet in all of Dallas/Fort Worth

1,200,000 in Houston

SUBLEASE SPACE absorption in 1st quarter

336,000 square feet added to the market in DFW

440,000 subtracted from the market in Houston

OVERALL VACANCY rate

17.5% in Dallas/Fort Worth

11.5% in Houston

DOWNTOWN VACANCY rate

21.7% in downtown Dallas

12.0% in downtown Houston

CLASS A AVERAGE RENT

$21.73 in DFW

$22.20 in Houston

UNDER CONSTRUCTION

7,500,000 square feet with 45% pre-leased in DFW

3,900,00 square feet with 29% pre-leased in Houston

So, DFW has a nearly 18% vacancy rate and they are ADDING 3,375,000 more square feet that is not accounted for. At the same time, class A space in Houston is dipping below 10% and we're only adding 1,131,000 of spec space.

That's a big UH-OH for DFW.

In the end, I don't care about decorative lights. I prefer the offices to be lit from the inside!

Edited May 10, 2007 by KinkaidAlum

[C2H]

PRIORITIES, people!

In the end, I don't care about decorative lights. I prefer the offices to be lit from the inside!

You're missong the point. True, Decorative lighting doesn't define a city, but to help downtown be more of a 24 hour place like Central Houston wants it, decorative lighting that's tasteful wouldn't be such a bad idea !

[musicman]

You're missong the point. True, Decorative lighting doesn't define a city, but to help downtown be more of a 24 hour place like Central Houston wants it, decorative lighting that's tasteful wouldn't be such a bad idea !

lit buildings don't determine whether it is a 24/7 place. people make it that way.

[C2H]

lit buildings don't determine whether it is a 24/7 place. people make it that way.

I give up!

Some people just don't even want to try to understand. I'll let someone else take it from here.

Edited May 10, 2007 by C2H

[musicman]

I give up!

Some people just don't even want to try to understand. I'll let someone else take it from here.

you're explanation is weak. think about it, do you honestly believe that adding lighting is going to make a large number of people want to head downtown? or would adding some nice restaurants/shops/etc cause people to go downtown?

[feufoma]

Very interesting stats from KinkaidAlum. Where did you find those? I've always marveled at the overbuilding in DFW. It was the same situation when I lived in Dallas years ago.

As to the topic: I would love for Houston to at least find more of a middle ground on the lighting of DT's major buildings. It does make a city look better and arguably creates an 'attraction factor'. DT Houston needs that. Could making the skyline look better at night increase the possibility of a residential surge? Who knows. I live near DT and think about the topic of lighting nearly every night when I'm taking a walk. It really is pretty bad compared to other major cities (and even a few relatively minor ones like Austin).

[C2H]

you're explanation is weak. think about it, do you honestly believe that adding lighting is going to make a large number of people want to head downtown? or would adding some nice restaurants/shops/etc cause people to go downtown?

honestly, a little bit of both. Now i don't make the rules. Don't ask me why people and out of towners are attracted to lights. Don't ask me why so many people visit Vegas a year primarily to see the lit up strip. Most states (besides Texas) allow gambling, so if you think about it, they can do that anywhere. Don't ask me why so many people like Time Square's lit up scene. It is what it is.

[musicman]

honestly, a little bit of both. Now i don't make the rules. Don't ask me why people and out of towners are attracted to lights. Don't ask me why so many people visit Vegas a year primarily to see the lit up strip. Most states (besides Texas) allow gambling, so if you think about it, they can do that anywhere. Don't ask me why so many people like Time Square's lit up scene. It is what it is.

i think you've made an assumption that people are coming because of the lights....i think the people came first is all i'm saying.

[bachanon]

honestly, a little bit of both. Now i don't make the rules. Don't ask me why people and out of towners are attracted to lights. Don't ask me why so many people visit Vegas a year primarily to see the lit up strip. Most states (besides Texas) allow gambling, so if you think about it, they can do that anywhere. Don't ask me why so many people like Time Square's lit up scene. It is what it is.

\

sorry, i wouldn't travel to vegas to see a "lit up strip". i would travel to vegas to gamble, drink and see shows. the lights are a bonus, but i wouldn't travel there just to see them in person.

[C2H]

^^^ and just because the 2 of you don't travel to see the lights doesn't mean that other people around the world don't. Many people love lights and flash. As i said before, gambling can be done at your nearest gambling depot (unless you live in Texas). Vegas wouldn't get half the recognition the hype if it wasn't for the lights and flash. Face it. Musicboy, i think you know that, you're just being difficult for the hell of it.

I'm done with this now!

[KinkaidAlum]

^^^ and just because the 2 of you don't travel to see the lights doesn't mean that other people around the world don't. Many people love lights and flash. As i said before, gambling can be done at your nearest gambling depot (unless you live in Texas). Vegas wouldn't get half the recognition the hype if it wasn't for the lights and flash. Face it. Musicboy, i think you know that, you're just being difficult for the hell of it.

I'm done with this now!

Well, that is primarily why I don't want downtown Houston to be all lit up.

I would NEVER buy a home on the Vegas Strip nor would I buy one in Times Square. I cannot imagine how f'in annoying it must be to live with non-stop blinking neon, television screen billboards, and all of that mess.

When I looked at moving downtown in 2003-4, I decided against it because most of the lofts are/were right in the middle of club central. That would have been fun for about all of a month and then reality would set in. Do you really want to be kept up every weekend until that last drunken 21 year old girl decides to shut up outside of your window? Do you really want to step over piss and vomit on your morning walk? Do you really want beer bottles and butts all over the front of your building?

Downtown Houston is heading in the right direction. Neighborhood bars, multiple dining venues, soft retail, art galleries, pocket parks, and things of that nature are what make a place truly liveable and inviting. If we want downtown to be a real neighborhood then we need to think about what urban dwellars want and then give those things to them. I don't think BRIGHT lights would be high on the list of wants...

[musicman]

^^^ and just because the 2 of you don't travel to see the lights doesn't mean that other people around the world don't. Many people love lights and flash. As i said before, gambling can be done at your nearest gambling depot (unless you live in Texas). Vegas wouldn't get half the recognition the hype if it wasn't for the lights and flash. Face it. Musicboy, i think you know that, you're just being difficult for the hell of it.

I'm done with this now!

it's rare that i hear people say..."i'm going to vegas to see the lights" however i have heard "i'm going to see celine dion" going to gamble, drink, eat, etc. the one place downtown here (aquarium) that they have lit up with neon, etc looks tacky to me. while it is a sight, i don't think peoples' primary purpose is to see the neon but it is to eat/see the aquarium/amusement rides. if the lights weren't there, they people would still be there.

Edited May 11, 2007 by musicman

[C2H]

I don't think BRIGHT lights would be high on the list of wants...

I've said this before and i'm going to say it again. I'm not suggesting that Houston be like Vegas or anything else. I merely pointed that out as an example as to how lights can have an impact on the city and make it more of a 24hour place.

I've talked with many travelers and yes, they go to Vegas primarily to see the entertainment shows and gambling. On the other hand, most of the time when they do talk about Vegas, they asscoiate, "I just love the lights and walking the strip at night".

Now for Houston. No you don't have to be Vegas, NYC, Tokyo, Atlanta, Dallas or anything else. There are many cities that light up their skyline tastefully without being too bright. Examples are: Denver, Portland, and Austin. But Houston could at least stop lighting virtually every building with Christmas lights and replace it with something else. That's all i'm saying.

[Vertigo58]

I've said this before and i'm going to say it again. I'm not suggesting that Houston be like Vegas or anything else. I merely pointed that out as an example as to how lights can have an impact on the city and make it more of a 24hour place.

I've talked with many travelers and yes, they go to Vegas primarily to see the entertainment shows and gambling. On the other hand, most of the time when they do talk about Vegas, they asscoiate, "I just love the lights and walking the strip at night".

Now for Houston. No you don't have to be Vegas, NYC, Tokyo, Atlanta, Dallas or anything else. There are many cities that light up their skyline tastefully without being too bright. Examples are: Denver, Portland, and Austin. But Houston could at least stop lighting virtually every building with Christmas lights and replace it with something else. That's all i'm saying.

I confess, I am one of millions that love Las Vegas for the gambling AND the lighted buildings, billboards, strip, etc.

Las Vegas never ceases to amaze me. I love the audacity if the innovation and creativity the designers put into building it up. The skies the limit! For years I have bragged about Vegas being like a huge movie set built up in the desert. Each casino trying to outdo or compete with the other for tourist with stars and $ in thier eyes. Call it too much glitz and glamour but I lust it! It has everthing one could want that has an interest in entertainment. I could spend hours just checking out each and every dazzling billboard. So, maybe I'm in the minority but I love the madness of the lights and excitment, in the blood I guess.

[C2H]

I confess, I am one of millions that love Las Vegas for the gambling AND the lighted buildings, billboards, strip, etc.

Las Vegas never ceases to amaze me. I love the audacity if the innovation and creativity the designers put into building it up. The skies the limit! For years I have bragged about Vegas being like a huge movie set built up in the desert. Each casino trying to outdo or compete with the other for tourist with stars and $ in thier eyes. Call it too much glitz and glamour but I lust it! It has everthing one could want that has an interest in entertainment. I could spend hours just checking out each and every dazzling billboard. So, maybe I'm in the minority but I love the madness of the lights and excitment, in the blood I guess.

Thank you for helping to strengthen my point . I was a travel agent for 6 months and was able to see many surveys conducted on how Las Vegas's lights are considered a tourist draw within themselves. Las Vegas isn't the only gambling depot in the U.S. Here in Colorado, there's several. The closest one from me is an hour away at Cripple Creek and Denver also has one about an hour away from there called BlackHawk. Casinos are a dime a dozen