Pierce Elevated

[woolie]

SF perhaps, or another sunbelt city. Not ours.

Just to make sure this nugget of wisdom isn't edited away...

[Double L]

Politically, I don't think that we have the ability to leave the gateway between downtown and midtown, which is that highly traversed of an area of the city, open to the homeless. There are other places for the homeless to go which are less used by residents and families. I think that the wider spectrum of solving the homeless problem entirely should be kept as a different issue. And no, I don't think closing off every location in the city where they can get a roof over their head is the right way to go about doing it. However, making sure that they are not bothering people with social violations should be an important component of our policy.

[TheNiche]

So "as a solution to Houston's problem, I do advocate healthcare and education...just not here"...so you "advocate healthcare and education" as a solution to Houston's problem but "just not here."...son, how do you manage to condridict yourself in just one sentence?

I've never avoided confronting hatered. Your brand is as common as air. While it may be no problem for others, it's impossible to close myself off from calling people like you out on your bigotry and disregard for human life.

I'm not contradicting myself. A solution to Houston's homeless problem is healthcare and education that are provided in other cities, funded by a concerted local effort, and policies that strongly discourage being homeless in Houston, basically by treating them like s***. Does it matter that they're receiving treatment for their issues in a place that isn't Houston? Or are we so much a bum's paradise that not allowing them to be treated here is just a crime against humanity?

Just to make sure this nugget of wisdom isn't edited away...

Why would I edit?

EDIT: Btw Ian, I could often stand to do without nmain's in-my-face confrontational style, but I like your own flavor of debate, even if we disagree often. ...in fact, especially because we disagree. The world would be a boring place without disagreement. But basic respect is what keeps everything sane, and you seem to get it...

...says the deranged astronaut with a shotgun to the antarctic waterfoul.

[editor]

There is no surprise that you advocate treating people like s***. However it's odd you "don't hate them or have anything personal against them" when you clearly display a distain for them.

It would seem you should be advocating education and health care as a solution to the problem. Imagine rehabilitated individuals becoming productive, tax-paying individuals. But you don't really advocate that. You are more interested in treating people like "s***" as a solution.

Dude, you're being baited and you fell for it. Sometimes you have to take a deep breath and see things from another angle. There are a certain number of people on HAIF (griefers) who enjoy spouting oddball views to get a rise out of people. I think this may have been one of those occasions.

The Niche is no HoustonJack.

On a personal note, it is people like you, moon and barnes that have driven me away from HAIF. Why should I log on to the internet when I can walk down any street in town and hear the hatred you spew?

Please don't mistake my anger for hatered. I don't hate you or have anything personal against you, but you aren't nice to have around.

No personal notes here. This thread is veering off topic. Send personal notes via PM before they become a flame war.

[TheNiche]

There are a certain number of people on HAIF (griefers) who enjoy spouting oddball views to get a rise out of people. I think this may have been one of those occasions.

The Niche is no HoustonJack.

Although I did pump it for dramatic effect, this is my actual policy proposal. It'd work, too.

Who's HoustonJack?

[Vertigo58]

Although I did pump it for dramatic effect, this is my actual policy proposal. It'd work, too.

Who's HoustonJack?

I think he means like in Haif-speak when someone hi-jacks or in this cool case sky-jacks a topic. Plane veering off runway, etc.

[Dream]

HoustonJack was the MAN! I miss that guy and his crazy opinions, but it was a good call revoking his HAIF privlieges.

Last I heard HoustonJack and Twenty27 had started their own forum about gays, chicken tenders and George Bush.

Dream

[MidtownCoog]

HoustonJack was a trip.

He's reminds me of CoogFans.com "DCraig".

Trollin.

[jmancuso]

here's an idea: collect the homeless and force them to join a traveling circus.

[Montrose1100]

It would be nice to have a privately funded facility to take care of them, but how does one determine the mentally ill from the lazy, and not to mention how the system would be abused...

Alot of the Panhandlers could definately afford a ticket...

It may seem nice that Midtown has "fenced them off", but they just end up moving, they don't dissapear. Alot of them are gushed out around the greyhound station.

[musicman]

It would be nice to have a privately funded facility to take care of them, but how does one determine the mentally ill from the lazy, and not to mention how the system would be abused...

Agree! Definitely another can of worms!!

[tmariar]

As far as privately-funded facilities go, the Star of Hope Mission seems like a pretty good organization - though I don't know all that much about it.

[Montrose1100]

As far as privately-funded facilities go, the Star of Hope Mission seems like a pretty good organization - though I don't know all that much about it.

Well I know facilities and shelters/homes exsist, but yet there are still people sleeping in the streets.

[Jax]

I drove through Midtown on Friday on my way to Jenni's Noodle House, and when I crossed 45 and Crawford near Pierce I noticed that there were lots of homeless under there because of the rain. It was like a whole village inside the fenced in area. There were some kind of gates in the fence that were unlocked and open and the homeless were coming in and out as they pleased. I had to stop under the 45 at a red light and people were yelling at me to come over to where they were under the bridge, that kinda freaked me out and I drove off as soon as I could. Anyways, is this the fence you guys were talking about? If it's supposed to be keeping the homeless out, it's really not working. I guess that's not surprising though, I don't really know where else they can go during the rain.

[drey00]

overall, i'm not sure what the policy is down there or how the city is trying to enforce it.

i do know that i drove by there Sunday afternoon but at the Chenevert/Pierce intersection and there was an actual sermon of some sort being held under 45...there were fold out chairs and probably at least 20-30 people there. so it appears to be somewhat open ...

[musicman]

overall, i'm not sure what the policy is down there or how the city is trying to enforce it.

the policy is no homeless loitering Downtown, Midtown, Hyde Park and Avondale. METRO and midtown mgmt district were probably the 2 biggest proponents. with the police shortage, arresting people for sitting on a bench or under the pierce elevated isn't a priority.

[SunKing]

Maybe what Houston, or its homeless need is a vigilante group to take matters into their own hands and provide housing outside of the city bureaucracy.

I'm thinking about something like the Mad Housers in Atlanta who make and give huts to the homeless.

I really hope you are kidding.

[moni]

NYC was able to get the homeless off the streets, so why can't Houston?? I know that in Chicago, the police move 'em right along if they hang out on city streets. They do allow them in some areas under ground. Law Enforcement can handle these people if they try but of course, the laws must allow this.

[musicman]

NYC was able to get the homeless off the streets, so why can't Houston?? I know that in Chicago, the police move 'em right along if they hang out on city streets. They do allow them in some areas under ground. Law Enforcement can handle these people if they try but of course, the laws must allow this.

i went to a PIP meeting last night and just about every sentence by the capt began with "i know you won't like to hear this but"

[EastMidtowner]

i went to a PIP meeting last night and just about every sentence by the capt began with "i know you won't like to hear this but"

What is PIP and what did the captain say?

[musicman]

What is PIP and what did the captain say?

Positive Interaction Program (PIP) is an HPD program where police who patrol your area meet with the various neighborhoods monthly to hear your concerns and hopefully respond to any questions you have.

basically people were complaining about numerous things among which was homeless and loitering. His response was "i know you won't like to hear this but with the increase in robberies in the area that is what we have been concentrating on. We feel this is more important for public safety" in general there were more serious problems to worry about than homeless and loitering. he said they do arrest them occasionally but they will be right back out the next day.

[SunKing]

..."i know you won't like to hear this but with the increase in robberies in the area that is what we have been concentrating on. We feel this is more important for public safety" in general there were more serious problems to worry about than homeless and loitering. he said they do arrest them occasionally but they will be right back out the next day.

And did anyone suggest that there probably is a direct correlation between the increase in vagrants (homeless) and the increase in robberies??

[hokieone]

yeah as weird as it sounds, i think the fences have made the problem worse. now instead of being in the parking lots, a bunch are on the sidewalks. and for some reason the numbers look like they are increasing. i know its been raining a lot, but it is gross over there. i'm guessing at night its around 100 people in that little area.

[musicman]

And did anyone suggest that there probably is a direct correlation between the increase in vagrants (homeless) and the increase in robberies??

i don't believe they were interested....basically his point was that what problem do you consider worse....loud music, homeless, stopping garage sales........or murders/robberies/burglaries. he grouped all the minor crimes and pitted them against the major ones.

[infinite_jim]

Discuss.

[Stephen]

OK I'll bite. It is perhaps the most annoying piece of concrete in the city to ride on a motorcycle, due to the subtle and repetitive arches of the spans.

[TheNiche]

First, build toll roads above/below the Union Pacific tracks between US90A to the south and and Northwest Mall to the north, with a branch from there running underneath Buffalo Bayou into downtown. Connect directly to Hempstead Toll Road, Westpark Toll Road, and Fort Bend Toll Road. Connect to surface streets at W. 11th, Old Katy Rd, the Woodway/Memorial split, Post Oak Blvd., Richmond Ave., and Braeswood, then to Allen Parkway and Memorial Drive for surface street access along the east/west segment. This would double as flood control infrastructure.

Simultaneously, develop the Hardy Toll Road extension into downtown along Hardy Rd. and the Alvin Toll Road along the BNSF railroad tracks/Spur 5/Highway 35, with the Alvin Toll Road extending into downtown along the railroad right of way along the eastern periphery of "Eado". This alignment makes it easy to join up the Hardy and Alvin toll roads.

The purpose of these new toll facilities is to act as relief during phase two, which would be horribly inconvenient.

Phase II is to, reconstruct the following:

I-10 from Washington to US 59. Yes, I know that much of this was only recently reconstructed, but we should do it again, and do it right this time. Double-deck from I-45 to US 59.

I-45 from the North Loop interchange to Telephone Road. Double-deck the Pierce Elevated. Local traffic below, through traffic above. During reconstruction, connect the subterranian toll road along the Buffalo Bayou corridor, through the downtown municipal courts and post office sites, to the Hardy & Alvin toll roads so as to make the toll road network seamlessly interconnected.

For numerous reasons, I believe that these potential toll corridors and the potential for exanding I-45 and inner I-10 are the final frontiers for automotive transportation capacities inside the loop. We should exhaust these opportunities first and in one fell swoop because they are low-hanging fruit, and then begin investing in major fixed-route mass transit corridors.

[strickn]

First let's try making East Loop the main lanes of I-45 and see how all patterns adjust. It might even help balance the Hardy Toll Road with North Freeway in the process.

[woolie]

Yes, it's a scar that forever separates downtown from midtown.

First, divert all 45 through traffic around 610 and away from downtown. That would kill the main reason it exists -- it only has one or two exits. The remaining traffic would go around the North side of downtown using 59 and 10.

Double deck freeways are a recipe for awfulness.

[Subdude]

Destroy it - it's an eyesore - and build out the rest of the Buffalo Bayou Plan. Years ago, when they closed the Pierce Elevated for resurfacing, there were all sorts of dire predictions about traffic Armageddon. In the event, in a day or so traffic learned how to divert itself and the effect was almost negligible. As long as traffic can be diverted to the Loop or 59, the Pierce doesn't serve any really critical purpose.