Need some HDTV advice

[editor]

I've finally taken the leap into the 21st century and gotten one of those new fangled HDTV sets to replace my trusty Sony that's served me since the mid-90's.

If you care, here it is:

What I need is some advice on what antenna to use to receive over-the-air broadcasts. My cable company carries some of the local channels HD feeds, but not all of them. And the ones Comcast leaves out are the ones I want to watch the most, so I need an antenna.

I'll use it inside an apartment building on a high floor. I have no balcony, so the antenna will have to be inside, and since I'm married it will have to be pretty small, preferably something I can stick under the bed and forget.

I found an old FM antenna and plugged it in to the set and I get some of the stations, but not all of them, so I'll need to get something real.

Anyone have experience with this sort of situation?

[4thGenHoustonian]

My husband runs an HD sports website (www.hdsportsguide.com if you like HD sports) and he recommends the Zenith Silver Sensor, a UHF antenna that works for HDTV. It's pretty small. I think we bought it at Best Buy. Here's the Zenith link: http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Dis...cat=&id=131

[editor]

Thanks. I saw something like that when I was in Best Buy today, but shied away because of the $50 price tag. Strangely, Best Buy only had three antennae, $15, $50, and $100. Nothing in between. I'm going to check Radio Shack tomorrow and see if they offer a wider range.

The one you pointed out looks small enough, but I worry that it's too directional. I need an omni-directional antenna to pick up signals from two directions.

--edit--

I just looked more closely at the description, and it calls itself "highly directional" so that might not work.

Also, it mentions multipath rejection as an attribute. That's false. One of the big points of the digital change is the elimination of multipath. It simply can't happen. Someone in marketing must have copied that line from a pre-HD version of the product.

[musicman]

the situation will change once the current analog stations go off the air. currently most of the stations are UHF except for ch 8 which is ch 9 digital. after the analog go off, they will move the digital ones down to the vhf spectrum. to be honest, purchase an amplifier with an FM signal blocker to get the best signal. i had an antenna i bought and it worked but i had to occasionally move it. I then bought the amplifier and it worked much better with only 26 being a problem. then i saw the FM signal blocker switch and turned it on. no more antenna adjustments. I am actually using an old antenna in my attic leaning up against a 2x4 support and with the amplifier it works just fine. the antenna i bought i gave to my parents and i know that they have had occasional problems with it but when i bought the amp over, theirs works fine too.

[jm1fd]

I've finally taken the leap into the 21st century and gotten one of those new fangled HDTV sets to replace my trusty Sony that's served me since the mid-90's.

If you care, here it is:

What I need is some advice on what antenna to use to receive over-the-air broadcasts. My cable company carries some of the local channels HD feeds, but not all of them. And the ones Comcast leaves out are the ones I want to watch the most, so I need an antenna.

I'll use it inside an apartment building on a high floor. I have no balcony, so the antenna will have to be inside, and since I'm married it will have to be pretty small, preferably something I can stick under the bed and forget.

I found an old FM antenna and plugged it in to the set and I get some of the stations, but not all of them, so I'll need to get something real.

Anyone have experience with this sort of situation?

Go to www.antennaweb.org and use their antenna chooser. You put in your address, it'll list all the nearby stations, and makes an antenna spec recommendation based on how far away the furthest station you want to tune in is.

[editor]

Hmmm. The antenna I found has a power port for a built-in amplifier. Maybe if I can find the plug it will work. I can get some stations now, but not all. Maybe it just needs a little boost.

[musicman]

Hmmm. The antenna I found has a power port for a built-in amplifier. Maybe if I can find the plug it will work. I can get some stations now, but not all. Maybe it just needs a little boost.

yeah you just have to remember VHF vs UHF. UFH antennae are usually smaller. i forgot you were in chicago so more channels may be VHF. IMO you don't need a "special" antenna to pick up an HDTV signal. it uses UHF and VHF frequencies as well.

[editor]

yeah you just have to remember VHF vs UHF. UFH antennae are usually smaller. i forgot you were in chicago so more channels may be VHF. IMO you don't need a "special" antenna to pick up an HDTV signal. it uses UHF and VHF frequencies as well.

The situation here is pretty much the same as there -- everyone's on U except for the CBS.

The reason I'm so interested in over-the-air instead of cable is that the NBC and ABC digital multicast stations have 24 hour local weather, the ABC has 24 hour local news, and the CW has 24 hour music videos. One of the independent U's carries a lot of shows from my childhood that I'd like to watch like Good Times and The Jeffersons and Three's Company and Sanford and Son. It's like Nick at Night, but free.

[musicman]

The situation here is pretty much the same as there -- everyone's on U except for the CBS.

The reason I'm so interested in over-the-air instead of cable is that the NBC and ABC digital multicast stations have 24 hour local weather, the ABC has 24 hour local news, and the CW has 24 hour music videos. One of the independent U's carries a lot of shows from my childhood that I'd like to watch like Good Times and The Jeffersons and Three's Company and Sanford and Son. It's like Nick at Night, but free.

definitely more channel choices! i got hooked on leave it to beaver last yr and watch the music video station frequently.

[travelguy_73]

My husband runs an HD sports website (www.hdsportsguide.com if you like HD sports) and he recommends the Zenith Silver Sensor, a UHF antenna that works for HDTV. It's pretty small. I think we bought it at Best Buy. Here's the Zenith link: http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Dis...cat=&id=131

This is what I use in my downtown loft and it works better than any other small indoor antenna (and I have tried them all). The issue I have downtown is that the signal bounces all over the place and so every couple of months I have to slightly reaim the thing. It is frustrating, but until we get HD in the building, it is the only solution. BTW, I only get PBS (VHF) when the gods are smiling, but I get the other major networks without a problem.

RE the built-in amplifier: If you don't need it, then it can cause more harm than goog. I tried one and it simply amplified a bad picture.

don't forget to use antennaweb.org

[TJones]

Editor, what compelled you to buy the Samsung. Is that the 42" or the 50" ? I am in the market myself, and I am torn between the Sony Wega DLP and the Samsung DLP.

[editor]

Editor, what compelled you to buy the Samsung. Is that the 42" or the 50" ? I am in the market myself, and I am torn between the Sony Wega DLP and the Samsung DLP.

I got the Samsung 4095D because it fit my parameters.

• I knew I wanted a full HD screen, meaning 1920x1080 resolution and the ability to show 1080p signals (Toshiba has 1920x1080 screens that only do 1080i, but only disclose that in the user manual).
  
• I didn't want to spend more than $1,800.
  
• I knew I wanted either LCD or plasma.
  

That list brought the search down to two TVs, the 40" Samsung and a 37" Sharp. My wife liked the look of the Samsung better.

I picked LCD instead of DLP because the DLP sets I looked at are a bit deeper than we'd like. DLP is another form of projector, and I don't think it can be hung on the wall. We plan to put this on the wall.

From what I've read in the last couple of days (after I bought it), the Samsung and Sony use the same screen -- it's the circuitry behind it that's the only difference.

One important research tool I used is the TV owners manuals. Don't take Amazon or whomever's word that the TV will do what you want it to do -- download the manuals and read them yourself. I was able to find most either on abtelectronics.com or crutchfield.com. This is what helped eliminate Toshiba from the list. Also, keep a close eye on "Picture-in-picture" claims. Most TVs in my price range (including the one I bought) only have one tuner, so you can't watch one HD channel and have another in the PIP. You can have an HDMI signal and a DVD in the little box, though, because no tuner is involved.

If you're going to buy online, I recommend AbtElectronics.com. They're a local store here that embraced the internet years ago so they wouldn't be extinguished. Very good prices. No sales tax if you live in Texas. Free shipping even on these large TVs, and great customer service. I ended up driving out there because I wanted to bring it home that day. Fortunately, I brought my printout of their web page with me. It had the TV at $1,757. But in store, the sale price was maked $2,099 (marked down from $2,200ish). They honored the print-out price and knocked off an extra $10 for my patience while they went to look up a price on something else.

[musicman]

I got the Samsung 4095D because it fit my parameters.

[*]I knew I wanted a full HD screen, meaning 1920x1080 resolution and the ability to show 1080p signals (Toshiba has 1920x1080 screens that only do 1080i, but only disclose that in the user manual).

so up there does chicago have any stations that actually broadcast in 1080p? I know all we have here is 1080i and 720p.

[editor]

so up there does chicago have any stations that actually broadcast in 1080p? I know all we have here is 1080i and 720p.

I don't think any stations broadcast in 1080p anywhere. 1080p compressed in MPEG2 requires more bandwidth than a TV station can broadcast (6Mhz). But if I ever buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, or some other device, it will take advantage of 1080p.

The ATSC transmission standard includes

• 640x480p/i
  
• 704x480p/i
  
• 1280x720p/i
  
• 1920x1080i
  

[musicman]

I don't think any stations broadcast in 1080p anywhere. 1080p compressed in MPEG2 requires more bandwidth than a TV station can broadcast (6Mhz). But if I ever buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, or some other device, it will take advantage of 1080p.

gotcha on the players...and any idea what you'll do there?

[TJones]

I think i am gonna go with the 42" Samsung DLP, It will fit perfectly in my Armoir as it is only 39" across and I have a perfect 42" wide opening for viewing. Best part, it is only like $999 at Conn's. I didn't know you needed the flat screen. I have both a Sony 36" Trintron in the armoir now. That 400lb. Gorilla is gonna be history and I'll bet my Armoir will thank me for it after I put in the dainty 50lb. Samsung.I'll move the Sony to the bedroom or the garage, if the wife doesn't wnat the behemoth in the "Love Chamber". I have a Samsung 27" in my daughter's room and both TVs play extremely well, so that is why I have been torn, but I think I will trust you and go with Samsung. Thanks.

[editor]

gotcha on the players...and any idea what you'll do there?

I probably won't buy another disc player for a while. I have a little battery-powered portable DVD burner that I take with me on trips to remote places without electricity that I can't bring my computer. I can pop my camera card in it and it burns the pictures to a DVD for storage.

While that seems off-topic, I mention it because it's also a region-free DVD PLAYER so I'm able to hook its S-Video output into my TV and view any of the DVDs I pick up around the world. I haven't done it yet, but I can only assume the quality is far better on the new TV than I'm used to.

Lately I've been ripping the Netflix videos that come in the mail. I put them on Apple TV for my wife to watch in 720p, and I rip them to PSP so I can watch them on the way to work. I think that will serve me for the next couple of years. I don't really see a reason to buy a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player yet, and if the future of video really is the internet, then I'm ahead of the curve.

[editor]

I didn't know you needed the flat screen.

Yeah, I'm moving to a smaller place to save money.

I have both a Sony 36" Trintron in the armoir now. That 400lb. Gorilla is gonna be history

Sounds like you an I are both replacing the same TV. It's a shame, because it still works pretty well. I might call Goodwill to have them pick it up along with some miscellaneous stereo equipment and furniture I'm not taking with me.

[musicman]

Lately I've been ripping the Netflix videos that come in the mail. I put them on Apple TV for my wife to watch in 720p, and I rip them to PSP so I can watch them on the way to work.

the upconversion players i've seen don't really upconvert as advertised. i always resort to the nasa video guru when i'm thinking about buying new equipment. he usually provides a thumbs down to most claims. he does like the blu ray and hddvd though.

[travelguy_73]

the upconversion players i've seen don't really upconvert as advertised. i always resort to the nasa video guru when i'm thinking about buying new equipment. he usually provides a thumbs down to most claims. he does like the blu ray and hddvd though.

If you are looking for upconversion, look at the Oppo (971 in my case, which I have paired with both a 42" Panasonic and 42" Philips plasma). It has a DVI output and they nicely include a DVI-HDMI cable. The picture is fantastic and the online support is second-to-none.

I have no intention of buying an HD-DVD or Blu-ray player until I feel like I won't be wasting my money on a product with a questionable future.

BTW, editor: I recently hung my Philips on the wall (the Panny is a cabinet unit) and it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought. The main challenge was figuring out what was behind my walls. I used a Peerless model from buy.com. Man, the Ambilight looks good at night on a light yellow wall!

[editor]

BTW, editor: I recently hung my Philips on the wall (the Panny is a cabinet unit) and it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought. The main challenge was figuring out what was behind my walls. I used a Peerless model from buy.com. Man, the Ambilight looks good at night on a light yellow wall!

Hanging the TV is one of the things I worry about. A guy I work with dropped his TV while doing it. He tried to take it back to Best Buy claiming it came that way. They didn't buy it.

I've thought about having the building maintenance people put it up for me (they have professional union carpenters on staff). I'm hoping I can just slip them a $20 or something. I move the first week of May, so I'll find out shortly after that.

[musicman]

If you are looking for upconversion, look at the Oppo (971 in my case, which I have paired with both a 42" Panasonic and 42" Philips plasma). It has a DVI output and they nicely include a DVI-HDMI cable. The picture is fantastic and the online support is second-to-none.

thank you! i will pass this onto my video guru and let him look at the specs.

[travelguy_73]

Hanging the TV is one of the things I worry about. A guy I work with dropped his TV while doing it. He tried to take it back to Best Buy claiming it came that way. They didn't buy it.

I've thought about having the building maintenance people put it up for me (they have professional union carpenters on staff). I'm hoping I can just slip them a $20 or something. I move the first week of May, so I'll find out shortly after that.

If you are wary of hanging it yourself (it's not a one-man job, it takes two or perhaps three), then I would hire someone else. The thing to keep in mind is that the hangers are way overengineered and can support the weight of the TV without any issue. I have mine attached to a studs, which are key. Of course who knows what is behind your wall, so YMMV. I ended up not being able to run the wiring behind the wall due to the firebreak about 24" above the floor. I used some wood, painted to match the wall, to hide the wiring. It's pretty darn good...I'll post some pics if you like.

[editor]

If you are wary of hanging it yourself (it's not a one-man job, it takes two or perhaps three), then I would hire someone else. The thing to keep in mind is that the hangers are way overengineered and can support the weight of the TV without any issue. I have mine attached to a studs, which are key. Of course who knows what is behind your wall, so YMMV. I ended up not being able to run the wiring behind the wall due to the firebreak about 24" above the floor. I used some wood, painted to match the wall, to hide the wiring. It's pretty darn good...I'll post some pics if you like.

Yeah, pictures would be great. I probably won't run the cable in the wall because I'm only renting. I was going to get one of those flat cable covers and paint over it to match the color of the wall but I'd like to see what you did.

If I don't hire someone else, I'll probably hang it myself. I'm actually surprised how light the TV is. I was able to carry it from the car to the elevator, and lift it out of the box when I got home.

I hope I can attach the hangar it to studs in the wall, but I'm worried that if I get one of those stud-finders at Sears it won't work -- too many false positives if I'm using it.

[travelguy_73]

Yeah, pictures would be great. I probably won't run the cable in the wall because I'm only renting. I was going to get one of those flat cable covers and paint over it to match the color of the wall but I'd like to see what you did.

If I don't hire someone else, I'll probably hang it myself. I'm actually surprised how light the TV is. I was able to carry it from the car to the elevator, and lift it out of the box when I got home.

I hope I can attach the hangar it to studs in the wall, but I'm worried that if I get one of those stud-finders at Sears it won't work -- too many false positives if I'm using it.

Here are some close-ups of the wire management. I recall that after making the wood enclosure, I came across this http://cableorganizer.com/wiring-solution/ that probably works just as well, but it seems a bit wider than what I made (I needed to hide 2 HDMI for the DVD player and D-link, 1 s-vid for the Sling, and 2 optical...if you have fewer cables, then you don't need as much space). I used some poplar wood from Home Depot...in the molding section they have a rack with dowels/rods of various sizes (square and round)--they are red or orange or something like that on the end of each piece. I chose two square rods no thicker than the thickest wire, then wood-glued those rods to the thinnest piece of wood I could find (found in the same are). Then I painted it wall color and attached with small nails behind the cabinet (so I didn't have to worry about hiding the nail holes). The rods run all the way down to the top of the floor molding, but the 'cover' only runs about one inch below the top of the component cabinet. The cover is super-light, so small nails work fine. The last pic below is my poor attempt at a diagram.

As for mounting the TV, you will probably need to drill some test holes to find out what is behind your walls. Also, remove the cable outlet and see what's back there...you might have insulation or adding wood 'filler' acting as insulation between you and your neighbor (that was the case with me where the developer had adding gypsum board as a sound insulator...played havoc with my stud finder!). You'll want to get a quart of matching wall paint for the wire cover as well as for any patches you might want to make to the walls when you leave.

[ricco67]

I'd have to say, that is REALLY good work, I never would have thought to use that.

I will have to do something along those lines when I get my system together.

Like TJ, I'm leaning towards the Sony Wega. I just have to figure out what to do to my TIVO since it won't record in HDTV and I have a lifetime subscription on it.

[editor]

That seems like a great way to do it. Classy, too. Thanks for the diagram!

[TJones]

I'd have to say, that is REALLY good work, I never would have thought to use that.

I will have to do something along those lines when I get my system together.

Like TJ, I'm leaning towards the Sony Wega. I just have to figure out what to do to my TIVO since it won't record in HDTV and I have a lifetime subscription on it.

Ricco, I have decided to go with the Samsung DLP, newer and better technology over the Sony. I have to go pick it up today, because the genius' over at Conn's forgot to keep a couple in stock. I also saved another $100 over the Sony. I had the TVs side by side, the Samsung just gave a better pic. Gonna use the HDMI cable also for the best connectivity.

[editor]

Looks like I'll be hanging the TV by myself. The building wants $150 to do it. For that price, I'll try it myself first.

I'll just have to remember to leave the room and have my wife use the studfinder so it does constantly beep.

[tmariar]

I'll just have to remember to leave the room and have my wife use the studfinder so it does constantly beep.

Just remember to get the studfinder back from her when she's done...