Gays can Marry in Disney!

[Guest Marty]

right on man I am done with this topic i said what i had to say in a respectable way.

peace

[Mister X]

Not that I can't take it, Marty, but being called "unnatural" isn't exactly the most respectable thing I've ever been called. If you were making a point in a "respectable" way then so was I.

[houstonmacbro]

Aw ... see .. we CAN all get along.

[Mister X]

Sure, lets give peace a change. I mean chance.

[musicman]

Maybe we all need to take some time to read those positive messages out of the bible that Bachanon gave us. I, as a sleezy, sex addicted, amoral queer, am excused from practicing all of those things.

i think the point of his message was missed.

[Mister X]

yeah nmain's been here quite a while now.

If nmain's been putting up with you for a while then I would say he also has some experience dealing with a wasted mind.

Yes, you missed the point again. You do that a lot I see.

[musicman]

If nmain's been putting up with you for a while then I would say he also has some experience dealing with a wasted mind.

Yes, you missed the point again. You do that a lot I see.

I definitely get the point. i didn't have to have it explained to me. the commonality we have is that we're all humans first and our differences (black/white/gay/straight/various religions, etc) come after that. unfortunately some put their differences ahead of being human.

[Mister X]

And some put cultural tradition and religious beliefs above being human too. All consenting humans should be allowed to get married at Disneyland if they want to. And now they can. Deal with it.

Disneyland today, tomorrow the world!

another few years Texas.

[musicman]

And some put cultural tradition and religious beliefs above being human too.

All consenting humans should be allowed to get married at Disneyland if they want to. And now they can. Deal with it.

yes many do. i'm not a fan of those either.

If you were really listening you would have discovered that i never had a problem with people getting married at disneyland.

if i was going to attempt to convince someone, I don't think i would have started out with " Gays can Marry in Disney!

DISNEY... F'ING... RULES!!! " To me that doesn't put the person in a good light and you've already lost the majority of your audience. IMO that's myspace material.

[bachanon]

unfortunately, for these parents who "guard" their kids from seeing things they deem "unnatural" or immoral, are usually way behind the curve when their kids are actually exposed to, and have questions about, these things. what i'm seeing occur with my friends' children is that they learn the least responsible information from other kids, tv and movies and never want to talk to mom or dad because it's been hush, hush (pretending it isn't there).

i think that if you want to truly educate your kids and allow them to make responsible choices, you cannot hide the world from them, nor do you shove it in their faces.

kids on the playground, at church, in school will expose your kids to every diabolical thing imaginable. if your kids think mom and dad are against something, they will fear rejection by bringing it up or using key words.

the apostle paul said it best: "all things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable." this idea is based in the christian tenet of god's forgiveness. god will forgive me of anything/i can do anything i want, yet i will not profit from certain activities. this is a very human condition and not specifically owned by the christian faith.

kids make really good choices when given the chance. i do not think that kids seeing homosexual couples at disney land or anywhere else will make them gay or make them less christ like. it will make them more tolerant adults, even if they have a personal conviction about homosexual behavior.

i think that the jimmy swaggarts and jim bakers of the world were created by this "sin conscious" ideology that many christians were brought up with. they spend so much time worrying about other people's behavior and what is sin, that they never learn to discipline their own urges. of course, no one is ever perfect. the idea, being a christian, is to live christ-like. people notice love when they see it. people can't see your love when you live in fear of the world around you, hide from reality and point fingers.

if my kid were gay, i'd like to know before the rest of the world. i wouldn't want him/her to think that i loved them less because of my negligence communicating the subject responsibly. i wouldn't want them to consider suicide because they felt they had no way out.......no way out of a box i helped build around them.

am i off topic again? i think the easter weekend is reminding me of why i'm a christian. some posts i've read today on this thread remind me of the fear that many christians live with. note: faith in god and believing in love DOES NOT equal fear.

[houstonmacbro]

...i think the easter weekend is reminding me of why i'm a christian. some posts i've read today on this thread remind me of the fear that many christians live with. note: faith in god and believing in love DOES NOT equal fear.

I've always wondered why 'Christians' (and yes MANY) Americans are so afraid of EVERYTHING. America --and by extension Americans-- seems to be so fearful of ... life. The Chinese, illegal immigrants, 'minorities' in their neighborhods and schools, gays, the Taliban ... we're seem to just be a nation, increasingly, of everything we don't understand or don't wish to accept as 'life'.

Makes me question our courage, patriotism, and yes, the convictions of our religious beliefs.

I do not worship a fearful God and I certainly do not expect that my God expects me to be fearful either.

What's up with our collective fear of 'the world'?

[houstonmacbro]

yes many do. i'm not a fan of those either.

If you were really listening you would have discovered that i never had a problem with people getting married at disneyland.

if i was going to attempt to convince someone, I don't think i would have started out with " Gays can Marry in Disney!

DISNEY... F'ING... RULES!!! " To me that doesn't put the person in a good light and you've already lost the majority of your audience. IMO that's myspace material.

Personally, I think getting married (straight or gay) in an amusement park is the height of ridiculousness, but I am glad gays can now get married there if they so choose.

Oh yeah ... and did you see the cost? $8,000+ No thanks!

[bachanon]

I've always wondered why 'Christians' (and yes MANY) Americans are so afraid of EVERYTHING. America --and by extension Americans-- seems to be so fearful of ... life. The Chinese, illegal immigrants, 'minorities' in their neighborhods and schools, gays, the Taliban ... we're seem to just be a nation, increasingly, of everything we don't understand or don't wish to accept as 'life'.

Makes me question our courage, patriotism, and yes, the convictions of our religious beliefs.

I do not worship a fearful God and I certainly do not expect that my God expects me to be fearful either.

What's up with our collective fear of 'the world'?

--------------------

i think it has a lot to do with wealth and the media.

it seems the more money we have, the more we feel the need to protect our little place in the world. we've become very materialistic and self serving. we have to make ourselves relevant when life is so easy.

the media, also attempting to stay relevant, focus on murder, rape, molestation and so on. the media feeds the fears we have protecting our family, our stuff, our place in the world.

i read a study several years ago which found that although violent crimes had gone down during a decade or so, reporting of violent crime had increased many times over. people felt that crime was happening all around them, yet it was decreasing.

are we not more suspicious of teachers after all the reports of kids having sex with teachers? you'd think teachers were teachers just to have access to the kids. (btw, if you haven't taught your kid some kinds of self discipline and self worth by the time they are teenagers, don't be surprised if they end up in the back seat of a car with a moderately hot teacher). i do not think the top story should ever be a crime, especially a crime committed across the country. why should our local stations open a newscast on anna nicole, a pedophile or a mom who's killed her kids. these things are tragic, yes. relevant to our daily lives, no. 01% or less of the viewers are immediately affected by these stories. it's hoopla, plain and simple.

our "fear of the world" can also be summed up in one word........"fallible". we are all fallible and cannot control the world around us. with all of our wealth, we like to think we control our own personal universe. we do not. we cannot. bad things happen to good people. that's life. fearing the bad stuff is no way to live.

if, when you say "the world", did you mean fearing non-christian culture? that's another subject.

[houstonmacbro]

i think it has a lot to do with wealth and the media.

it seems the more money we have, the more we feel the need to protect our little place in the world. we've become very materialistic and self serving. we have to make ourselves relevant when life is so easy.

the media, also attempting to stay relevant, focus on murder, rape, molestation and so on. the media feeds the fears we have protecting our family, our stuff, our place in the world.

i read a study several years ago which found that although violent crimes had gone down during a decade or so, reporting of violent crime had increased many times over. people felt that crime was happening all around them, yet it was decreasing.

are we not more suspicious of teachers after all the reports of kids having sex with teachers? you'd think teachers were teachers just to have access to the kids. (btw, if you haven't taught your kid some kinds of self discipline and self worth by the time they are teenagers, don't be surprised if they end up in the back seat of a car with a moderately hot teacher). i do not think the top story should ever be a crime, especially a crime committed across the country. why should our local stations open a newscast on anna nicole, a pedophile or a mom who's killed her kids. these things are tragic, yes. relevant to our daily lives, no. 01% or less of the viewers are immediately affected by these stories. it's hoopla, plain and simple.

our "fear of the world" can also be summed up in one word........"fallible". we are all fallible and cannot control the world around us. with all of our wealth, we like to think we control our own personal universe. we do not. we cannot. bad things happen to good people. that's life. fearing the bad stuff is no way to live.

if, when you say "the world", did you mean fearing non-christian culture? that's another subject.

For the most part you summed up my feelings exactly.

By 'the world' I mean everything foreign including religions, cultures, skin colors, etc. Remember in the 80s we were scared of the Russians, the Japanese ... Barney. Now we're scare of the Chinese, the Indians and increasingly 'illegal' immigrants.

Just seems like we're just a xenophobic and scared group of people. And to be afraid of each other when we call ourselves Americans ... just doesn't make sense.

[Mister X]

yes many do. i'm not a fan of those either.

If you were really listening you would have discovered that i never had a problem with people getting married at disneyland.

if i was going to attempt to convince someone, I don't think i would have started out with " Gays can Marry in Disney!

DISNEY... F'ING... RULES!!! " To me that doesn't put the person in a good light and you've already lost the majority of your audience. IMO that's myspace material.

Actually, Musicman I am not all that concerned with your problem. And no, it wasn't clear to me what you were griping about all night. Maybe I brought it upon myself, but your personal attack at me for my silly, insensitive joke got my attention so I thought it deserved a counter attack. It's not like someone died or anything and it's certainly nothing I can't handle. But you can't honestly expect a person not to react negitively or sarcastically when they here that old tired cliche that you used. Obviously, I struck a nerve or you wouldn't have responded at all. Maybe I offended you on behalf of my "stupid kids" remark or maybe you were sticking up for "intolerant adults". Sounded like you had some kind of problem with what I said, but I'm glad to hear it's not with gay marriage for what it's worth.

I have to say it's Marty's comments that really bother me. You may or may not buy into his garbage about kids + gay agenda = dead USA, or calling human emotions that he can't understand unnatural but anyone who uses language like that has got to expect a hostile response, especially with this many sisters crusing this forum.

[bachanon]

For the most part you summed up my feelings exactly.

By 'the world' I mean everything foreign including religions, cultures, skin colors, etc. Remember in the 80s we were scared of the Russians, the Japanese ... Barney. Now we're scare of the Chinese, the Indians and increasingly 'illegal' immigrants.

Just seems like we're just a xenophobic and scared group of people. And to be afraid of each other when we call ourselves Americans ... just doesn't make sense.

fearful americans. would've been an oxymoron one generation back.

i've quoted it before............."Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - benjamin franklin.

ouch! looks like we've strayed from the bravery and confidence of our forefathers.

edit: just found out that ben franklin pubished a book with the quote above. he may have not written it. for what it's worth, to those who care.......

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

[houstonmacbro]

fearful americans. would've been an oxymoron one generation back.

i've quoted it before............."Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - benjamin franklin.

ouch! looks like we've strayed from the bravery and confidence of our forefathers.

edit: just found out that ben franklin pubished a book with the quote above. he may have not written it. for what it's worth, to those who care.......

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

He was definitely a thinker. Did you see the Ben Franklin exhibit (or was it a film) when it was here recently?

[bachanon]

He was definitely a thinker. Did you see the Ben Franklin exhibit (or was it a film) when it was here recently?

no, i missed that.

[ProHouston]

It seems many on this board take every opportunity to chastise religion as intolerant and hateful while in the same sentence blasting anyone who is religious without a second thought. That my friends is being a hypocrite.

Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people. Quite the opposite. We are loving people who are very accepting of all people with a simple desire that all could find Jesus. We may not all support homosexuality, abortion, etc. but we don't hate those people who do. We accept them without judgement. I'm sorry so many of you don't look for, or accept, these people and instead prefer to blast all of us as if we are one huge racist, gay bashing cult. There is nothing further from the truth.

Hopefully this hasn't offended anyone, I just felt some eyes needed to be opened on this thread and many others that I've read recently.

[nativehou]

You guys have been busy! Thanks for some seriously fun Saturday morning reading.

[houstonmacbro]

It seems many on this board take every opportunity to chastise religion as intolerant and hateful while in the same sentence blasting anyone who is religious without a second thought. That my friends is being a hypocrite.

Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people. Quite the opposite. We are loving people who are very accepting of all people with a simple desire that all could find Jesus. We may not all support homosexuality, abortion, etc. but we don't hate those people who do. We accept them without judgement. I'm sorry so many of you don't look for, or accept, these people and instead prefer to blast all of us as if we are one huge racist, gay bashing cult. There is nothing further from the truth.

Hopefully this hasn't offended anyone, I just felt some eyes needed to be opened on this thread and many others that I've read recently.

I know quite a few very decent and respectful 'heathens', and also a lot of very evil 'Christians'. However, the inverse is also true as well.

You guys have been busy! Thanks for some seriously fun Saturday morning reading.

Heck, there's not much else to do ... have you looked outside? The weather is really sucky up North (1960) right now. Combine that with a lack of ANYTHING worthwhile on television and this board is like heaven.

[bachanon]

It seems many on this board take every opportunity to chastise religion as intolerant and hateful while in the same sentence blasting anyone who is religious without a second thought. That my friends is being a hypocrite.

Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people. Quite the opposite. We are loving people who are very accepting of all people with a simple desire that all could find Jesus. We may not all support homosexuality, abortion, etc. but we don't hate those people who do. We accept them without judgement. I'm sorry so many of you don't look for, or accept, these people and instead prefer to blast all of us as if we are one huge racist, gay bashing cult. There is nothing further from the truth.

Hopefully this hasn't offended anyone, I just felt some eyes needed to be opened on this thread and many others that I've read recently.

i hear you. in my experience, the gay community has come to expect rejection. expecting rejection creates distance between communities. i'm confident in my assumption that most christians have homosexuals in their lives or families and most homosexuals are christian and/or have christians in their lives or families. the media portrays the fringe elements in both communities. those of us in the middle suffer as a result.

[houstonmacbro]

I saw these ministers on television the other day (I forget what channel) but it was a female minister (in Dallas I think) with a largely gay congregation, and a male minister who feels gays are an abomination and calls it like he sees it.

He came off as a bigoted homphobic idiot while she came off as compassionate and caring for ALL of God's people --whether humans accept it or not.

Now, if he is typical of 'the church' (and from the media portrayal of the religious-right it seems to be) no wonder gays and other ostracized communities feel threatened and distanced from 'the church'.

[bachanon]

bono of U2 said it best in a recent interview. he was asked if he was christian, he said he didn't have a problem with jesus, just the people proclaiming to be his people. ditto that.

[houstonmacbro]

I will agree (with a previous comment) that fringe elements of all parties (religious right, gay, etc.) seem to have hijacked sensible viewpoints. Combine that with the media's need for ratings (also previous mentioned) and you have what 'seems' like a very intolerant America.

But I still stand by my statements that Americans --today-- seem afraid of just about everything.

Heck, we're now --right now-- even afraid of dog food!

[nmainguy]

Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people.

If you really beieve that then you need the get the message out. As it stands now, the far right "christians" and politicians have the audience. Every two years gays are trotted out and put on display as demons with a "gay agenda" who want "special rights." So the next time that happens, maybe more mainstream Christian leaders should stop and ask them what a "gay agenda" is. (I've never seen it but you would have thought I would by now.)

Another good question would be what "special rights" are you talking about? The ones straight people have because until gays have the same rights they will remain 2nd classs citizens. My point is we see alot of unwarrented demonizing by loud mouth "christian" leaders but not so much oppostition from the mainstream.

[TJones]

I will agree (with a previous comment) that fringe elements of all parties (religious right, gay, etc.) seem to have hijacked sensible viewpoints. Combine that with the media's need for ratings (also previous mentioned) and you have what 'seems' like a very intolerant America.

But I still stand by my statements that Americans --today-- seem afraid of just about everything.

Heck, we're now --right now-- even afraid of dog food!

I bet if your animal had died from tainted food, you'd be scared also macbro. That dogfood scare isn't a laughing matter. You are better than that, at least I thought you were. They still haven't found out who, how, or why someone would do that to defenseless animals. I have some speculations, that it wasn't an attack on animals just to be evil and hurt animals, it was an experiment to see how easy a food source could be poisoned.

My big question is WhyTF are we importing wheat ANYTHING. We are the world's largest supplier of it, that is absolutely the last resource that we need to import. It just doesn't make any sense.

Sorry, I am hijacking !

Back on Topic. Nmain, I am a very religious person, very Christian, but I do not practice in a church, just part of MY belief system. You know where I stand WITH YOU on the whole gay thing. I don't mind at all what Disney wants to do with THEIR business, it is their's, they can do as they please, they have the right to refuse or give service to whomever they wish.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and you can make all of the people happy some of the time, but it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time.

[bachanon]

I bet if your animal had died from tainted food, you'd be scared also macbro. That dogfood scare isn't a laughing matter. You are better than that, at least I thought you were. They still haven't found out who, how, or why someone would do that to defenseless animals. I have some speculations, that it wasn't an attack on animals just to be evil and hurt animals, it was an experiment to see how easy a food source could be poisoned.

Why big question is WTF are we importing wheat ANYTHING. We are the world's largest supplier of it, that is absolutely the last resource that we need to import. It just doesn't make any sense.

come on tjones, he wasn't ridiculing people for being concerned about their animals. the point is that most dog/cat food was not affected, but everyone is suspicious of their pet food now. i called petco as soon as i heard the story and they confirmed what i knew to be true. it was specific brands in specific areas. i was at petco last night buying dog treats. a couple behind me in line said "ya better make sure those treats aren't bad ones". they were not joking. they didn't consider the fact that petco's reputation would be worthless if they hadn't removed any affected foods, nor had they read a single story on the specifics of "the scare" (they were all to proud to state that they don't read the paper). it's ok to be alarmed when you think you might be affected by a national story like that. but once you've done some homework and corrected what you can, you move on.

fearing what has not happened is torture.

[Mister X]

I bet if your animal had died from tainted food, you'd be scared also macbro. That dogfood scare isn't a laughing matter. You are better than that, at least I thought you were. They still haven't found out who, how, or why someone would do that to defenseless animals. I have some speculations, that it wasn't an attack on animals just to be evil and hurt animals, it was an experiment to see how easy a food source could be poisoned.

My big question is WhyTF are we importing wheat ANYTHING. We are the world's largest supplier of it, that is absolutely the last resource that we need to import. It just doesn't make any sense.

Forget homophobes or radical gays. The person or people responsible for poisoning defenseless dogs and cats should pay with their frickin' lives!

Being misguided, misinformed, intolerant, insensitive or overly flamboyant may be one kind of human imperfection - but hurting dogs and cats is PURE EVIL!

sorry for the highjacking too.

[Trae]

If you really beieve that then you need the get the message out. As it stands now, the far right "christians" and politicians have the audience. Every two years gays are trotted out and put on display as demons with a "gay agenda" who want "special rights." So the next time that happens, maybe more mainstream Christian leaders should stop and ask them what a "gay agenda" is. (I've never seen it but you would have thought I would by now.)

Another good question would be what "special rights" are you talking about? The ones straight people have because until gays have the same rights they will remain 2nd classs citizens. My point is we see alot of unwarrented demonizing by loud mouth "christian" leaders but not so much oppostition from the mainstream.

Gays are still people, so they should have the same rights. That is one thing I agree with. If I had a son who was gay, and he could not marry because he was gay, I wouldn't be too happy. It's almost like Black people not being able to vote (not too long ago).