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Windsor Memorial Apartments: Multifamily High-Rise At 3131 Memorial Cr.


TheNiche

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Anyone wonder why the Calais and the MIX in Midtown aren't on the LRT and instead are located along Smith/Louisiana? It's because they'll get more traffic and business away from the LRT.

In all fairness, the Calais was built before the LRT opened. But I do agree with your other point: property values along the LRT are such that many developers are prefering to develop elsewhere while waiting the current property owners out to see if/when prices fall further to where they prefer.

The other side of that, however, is that the first group that goes ahead and develops along the LRT could reap a bigger benefit because a resident would certainly prefer to live closer to the line than away and may be willing to pay a bit more to do so.

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The West End/Rice Military areas are benefiting from not having the LRT in place like midtown which caused land prices to skyrocket out of wack with what developers to could make a profit with.

Washington Avenue is being targeted because the land values are relatively good to support projects like this.

Anyone wonder why the Calais and the MIX in Midtown aren't on the LRT and instead are located along Smith/Louisiana? It's because they'll get more traffic and business away from the LRT.

You can call a developer greedy, but they are very rarely stupid.

This explains the unbridled development occurring in the 5th Ward, and the dearth of new projects in Uptown and River Oaks.

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This explains the unbridled development occurring in the 5th Ward, and the dearth of new projects in Uptown and River Oaks.

No, kjb is pretty much spot on. Projected rents/prices from developments in the 5th Ward are insufficient at this time to justify new apartment or condominium development in any form given any land price. Even given very high land prices, projected rents/land prices in Uptown and River Oaks are supportive of development.

The core of Midtown has land prices that are slightly out of alignment with achievable rents/prices of new units.

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He is correct that land prices are high. He is incorrect that LRT caused it. Land prices are high because land owners raised their prices. Land owners raised their prices because developers were buying up as much land as they could get their hands on. After 10 years of this, the prices were eventually raised to a point that sales slowed down.

It will happen on Washington as well...with or without a rail line. It always does.

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He is correct that land prices are high. He is incorrect that LRT caused it. Land prices are high because land owners raised their prices. Land owners raised their prices because developers were buying up as much land as they could get their hands on. After 10 years of this, the prices were eventually raised to a point that sales slowed down.

It will happen on Washington as well...with or without a rail line. It always does.

So it has not happened on Washington yet? Why did it happen in midtown first?

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So it has not happened on Washington yet? Why did it happen in midtown first?

IMO, because Midtown has more upside.

I don't quite understand people's love affair with Washington Ave. Most of it is starting to look like Westheimer outside the Loop or FM 1960.

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IMO, because Midtown has more upside.

I don't quite understand people's love affair with Washington Ave. Most of it is starting to look like Westheimer outside the Loop or FM 1960.

Why the upside? I'm sure it's many factors including its location; between downtown and the Med Center and right next to Montrose. But how much of that upside has to do with the light rail? Take rail out of the equation, would Midtown still have the same growth, or more or less? Does that mean many of the Washington projects would be going to Midtown instead if the rail wasn't there and land prices weren't so high?

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I would suggest location between DT TMC and Montrose, as well as the improvements in infrastructure made possible by the TIRZ. The LRT no doubt helped, but is by no means the only reason, nor was it the initiator of the jump in land prices.

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I would suggest location between DT TMC and Montrose, as well as the improvements in infrastructure made possible by the TIRZ. The LRT no doubt helped, but is by no means the only reason, nor was it the initiator of the jump in land prices.

Was there a jump in land prices in these other areas also? Were similar infrastructure improvments made in these other areas?

I think the only real way to evaluate the situation is by looking at the numbers; when the land prices jumped (and the % of the jump) and when different factors like infrastructure improvments, LRT implementation and the overall health of Houston economy happened, relative to the jump, if any (in certain areas).

Broad speculations only tell so much of the story.

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IMO, because Midtown has more upside.

I don't quite understand people's love affair with Washington Ave. Most of it is starting to look like Westheimer outside the Loop or FM 1960.

Washington Ave. is a smaller, more well defined area, with access to great public goods, including but not limited to several parks, running trails, and interstate access. It's shielded by the Heights on one side and Memorial Park on the other, and has great access to downtown through either Allen Pkwy, Memorial, I-45, I-10, or Houston Ave. Because of the small size of the Washington Ave drag, it's easy for developers to focus their commerical efforts on one part of the area, and their residential efforts on another, but not have too much distance separating the two, and even combine some mixed used developments in there.

Contrast that with Midtown, which is huge in terms of land mass, has a lot of public service buildings aimed at the indigent, no real focal point that has caught on, and despite being intended to be walkable, has not been able to achieve that because there is no true center.

Yup, can't figure out why Washington Ave has taken off and Midtown hasn't...

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Was there a jump in land prices in these other areas also? Were similar infrastructure improvments made in these other areas?

I think the only real way to evaluate the situation is by looking at the numbers; when the land prices jumped (and the % of the jump) and when different factors like infrastructure improvments, LRT implementation and the overall health of Houston economy happened, relative to the jump, if any (in certain areas).

Broad speculations only tell so much of the story.

I look forward to reading the results of your research.

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Yup, can't figure out why Washington Ave has taken off and Midtown hasn't...

Also some good points. The economy is just bigger than us, who can understand it? Too many factors.

I look forward to reading the results of your research.

lol, me too.

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IMO, because Midtown has more upside.

I don't quite understand people's love affair with Washington Ave. Most of it is starting to look like Westheimer outside the Loop or FM 1960.

Your opinion is just...wrong. Washington Avenue really does have its own thing going on. There are precious few parcels large enough to support massive shopping centers with pad sites (of the sort that define Westheimer and 1960) and those that are available aren't even being considered for that kind of use.

Meanwhile, Washington Avenue and the surrounding neighborhoods really haven't received a proportionate share of infrastructure improvements from the City, nor have they been decisively rebranded by a TIRZ or Management District.

I would suggest location between DT TMC and Montrose, as well as the improvements in infrastructure made possible by the TIRZ. The LRT no doubt helped, but is by no means the only reason, nor was it the initiator of the jump in land prices.

I tend to agree with this, generally, since Midtown really was targeted and over-promoted. However, I think that LRT was central to the promotional effort and that it is the reason that the Main Street corridor--specifically--is lagging.

I would point out, though, that land prices are just a mechanism for rationing land to developers that can get the highest rents and the highest density. Slow development in an area like this is not necessarily all that much of a problem in the long run...unless of course you don't plan on being around in the long run.

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Washington Ave. is a smaller, more well defined area, with access to great public goods, including but not limited to several parks, running trails, and interstate access. It's shielded by the Heights on one side and Memorial Park on the other, and has great access to downtown through either Allen Pkwy, Memorial, I-45, I-10, or Houston Ave. Because of the small size of the Washington Ave drag, it's easy for developers to focus their commerical efforts on one part of the area, and their residential efforts on another, but not have too much distance separating the two, and even combine some mixed used developments in there.

Contrast that with Midtown, which is huge in terms of land mass, has a lot of public service buildings aimed at the indigent, no real focal point that has caught on, and despite being intended to be walkable, has not been able to achieve that because there is no true center.

Yup, can't figure out why Washington Ave has taken off and Midtown hasn't...

Actually, the general area that people think of when they consider Washington Avenue (bounded by I-10 to the north, downtown to the east, Memorial to the south, and Memorial Park to the west) is really big, much larger than Midtown. It only seems more compact because the major thoroughfares aren't as concentrated.

But I do agree that the scarcity of grade-level thoroughfares (especially east/west) helps in making it a more defined corridor with concentrated clusters of businesses and higher-density development.

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But I do agree with your other point: property values along the LRT are such that many developers are prefering to develop elsewhere while waiting the current property owners out to see if/when prices fall further to where they prefer.

the speculators beat the developers which resulted the inflated prices.

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Actually, the general area that people think of when they consider Washington Avenue (bounded by I-10 to the north, downtown to the east, Memorial to the south, and Memorial Park to the west) is really big, much larger than Midtown. It only seems more compact because the major thoroughfares aren't as concentrated.

But I do agree that the scarcity of grade-level thoroughfares (especially east/west) helps in making it a more defined corridor with concentrated clusters of businesses and higher-density development.

You are correct, my mistake. I meant to stress the defined corridor aspect that you describe. It is my hope that the developers use the remaining land on that focal point to build structures similar to the mixed use structures that are going up at Westheimer and Kirby, although I have not seen anything to make me think that is going to happen. I just hope that it doesn't turn into a lower Greenville (Dallas) type area in the meantime.

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TheNiche

Parts along Washington Fall within the TIRZ #5 boundary. The TIRZ is what is encouraging this project and the future teardown of the Archstone Memorial Apt complex.

Below is a link to a PDF file from the City of Houston website of all the current TIRZ's as of 2004.

TIRZ Map

I do know TIRZ #5 has recently expanded along street ROWs to reach White Oak Bayou. The TIRZ includes now a long stretch of White Oak Bayou and also added in the much of Buffalo Bayou.

The White Oak portion stretches from Shepherd to Downtown. The Buffalo Bayou portion goes from Shepherd to Downtown. This is allow TIRZ money to improve trails and parks.

The actual section of TIRZ on Washington is only 1 large block, but the plans for that area are to massively urbanize it. it will be quite dense with new residential and retail. Office will be included and the nearby offices off Heights and Waugh will benefit.

This will essentially become like a town center for the West End area. It will go a long way to rebrand the area as Memorial Heights.

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i read somewhere that they were going to develop the west side of Memorial Heights Drive into a park. Currently it appears to be an abandoned narrow strip of land that used to be the railroad spur that went from the main line to the old Ed Sacks plant.

Does anyone know if this is true? I heard it was supposed to be part of the Archstone tear down and also part of the TIRZ project. Not sure if this is true or not but would appreciate if anyone could shed any light on this.

I live on Memorial Heights in the Perry Townhomes and would love for something like that to happen.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

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Your opinion is just...wrong. Washington Avenue really does have its own thing going on. There are precious few parcels large enough to support massive shopping centers with pad sites (of the sort that define Westheimer and 1960) and those that are available aren't even being considered for that kind of use.

Meanwhile, Washington Avenue and the surrounding neighborhoods really haven't received a proportionate share of infrastructure improvements from the City, nor have they been decisively rebranded by a TIRZ or Management District.

I tend to agree with this, generally, since Midtown really was targeted and over-promoted. However, I think that LRT was central to the promotional effort and that it is the reason that the Main Street corridor--specifically--is lagging.

I would point out, though, that land prices are just a mechanism for rationing land to developers that can get the highest rents and the highest density. Slow development in an area like this is not necessarily all that much of a problem in the long run...unless of course you don't plan on being around in the long run.

It is not possible for anyone's opinion to be wrong. That's like saying "someone's philosophy is wrong". Opinions are subjective by definition.

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It is not possible for anyone's opinion to be wrong. That's like saying "someone's philosophy is wrong". Opinions are subjective by definition.

I'll conceed that...if you'll conceed that the probability that your opinion and theirs and mine and all that have ever been proposed by anyone throughout the history of humankind are correct is infinitesimal.

p = 1/∞ = 0 = Wrong.

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I wouldn't have wanted to have lost that exchange to private-messaging. Since theniche spends a lot of time weighing in on the forum, it's helpful for newcomers to stay able to see - in some conversation or other and doesn't matter which place so long as it happens - that he fits a Myers-Briggs NT temperament, the rational knowledge seeker, who, unlike some other personality types, cares tremendously more about what's the most competent view of things than in who thinks so. As a result it's more of a challenge to take the time to be kind to people, especially once they have the nerve to appear to see things less competently than one does (this becomes a problem because, when such a person is convinced that you're being wrong as far as they understand yet, they don't think that you are worth them wasting any more time beyond nailing the facts down, and so they miss a lot more in life than they think they do. I should know because I used to be a much less balanced "INTP". This is a harder transition for an Ntuitive Thinker to make than it is for more tacitly sensitive ways of life to do, since the filtering that goes on on a daily basis is something that self-reinforces: in astute confidence about the matter at hand, you spend more and more time handling evidence that your views are smarter than other people's. You stop being attuned to when you're shooting yourself in the foot while shooting down folks who deserved it for having the temerity to claim truth that's beneath you; in fact you never see the evidence that you excluded.). It's helpful to realize that the choices everyone represents themselves with on an internet forum are much less than the sum of the person's worthwhileness[es], and to show consideration based in that instead of in how easy it is to shut up what's right at hand. But of course it's also nice to know that I'm smarter than theniche >:D

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You can't forget the fact that since this is an internet forum, it is entirely possible that Niche isn't wasting his time flattering those that he normally would in real life. There are certainly those posters on this forum that I spend little time attempting to placate that, if I were dealing with in my real job, I would make feel that I actually appreciate their worthless opinion. Of course, if Niche talked this way in real life, well, you'd be absolutely correct. :rolleyes:

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Strickn, I'm an INTJ too...more or less. The N-S is actually a cross-type, but I've observed that the N is most like myself. You would be amazed at the numbers of INTJs on this forum. I set up a poll from a year or so ago that determined that INTJ HAIFers are about 8 or 9 times as common as INTJs in the general population. And you're right that I tend to be tolerant and sociable up to the point at which I perceive someone as abjectly incompetent (which actually takes repeated displays, like nmainguy used to give, but which moni has not done).

She told me that I can't be correct, that there are no absolutes with respect to peoples' opinions, and that she bothered to bring up philosophy as an example. So I utilized an angle from when I've argued philosophy (both internally and externally) and used it to decisively annihilate not only moni's position but mine as well. I like being correct, even if I can arrive at correctness by proving that I'm essentially incorrect...and in arriving at this I take joy not only for its own sake, but as though it were a competitive sport...a kind of mental wrestling.

When I identify people as being truely incompetent, I usually just stop talking to them. For instance, I didn't tell the 30-something-year-old woman-children I met last night that the content of their conversations were driving me to self-medicate against them with alcohol...and I didn't tell their significant others that I thought of them as some peculiar kind of pedophile. Inciting a barfight by speaking my mind would probably not have been nearly as fun as argumentation on HAIF. I just left as soon as I could, removing myself from the situation.

On HAIF, it is a little different, especially if someone is challenging you, because even if you really don't consider them a very worthy opponent, there may be some fraction of otherwise competent people that do. And so a public challenge merits a public response. It is text, after all, and it'll be there for a very long time (unless I pissed off a moderator).

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BLAH BLAH BLAH

When I identify people as being truely incompetent, I usually just stop talking to them. For instance, I didn't tell the 30-something-year-old woman-children I met last night that the content of their conversations were driving me to self-medicate against them with alcohol...and I didn't tell their significant others that I thought of them as some peculiar kind of pedophile. Inciting a barfight by speaking my mind would probably not have been nearly as fun as argumentation on HAIF. I just left as soon as I could, removing myself from the situation.

On HAIF, it is a little different, especially if someone is challenging you, because even if you really don't consider them a very worthy opponent, there may be some fraction of otherwise competent people that do. And so a public challenge merits a public response. It is text, after all, and it'll be there for a very long time (unless I pissed off a moderator).

Could a moderator please split the last few posts off into a thread devoted entirely to "The Niche", so this thread can discuss the 25-story development at Memorial and Studemont???

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