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Market Square Park At 301 Milam St.


TheNiche

Market Square  

68 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Market Square is attractive in its current state?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      37
    • Don't Know
      5
  2. 2. Do you think that it could reasonably be improved upon?

    • Yes
      64
    • No
      3
    • Don't Know
      2
  3. 3. If you responded 'Yes' to question #2, how would you improve it?

    • Add more trees/shrubs
      32
    • Add more benches
      30
    • Add picnic tables
      19
    • Allow a few concession stands
      36
    • Add a small restaurant with window orders (similar to Champ Burger or Someburger)
      31
    • Add a playground
      11
    • Add a dog trot
      13
    • Add a pond
      13
    • Add one or multiple small fountains
      20
    • Add one central large fountain
      29
    • Other, please explain
      11


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Agree on the memorial bit. Niko Nikos is brilliant. It's about time they expanded. I just hope they can stay in business at that location. It seems a lot of food joints have come and gone on Market Square.

Seems to me that the restaurants and bars that are there now have been there from quite some time (ie: Treebeards, etc.). The Les Givrals people are adding two more eating places, on either side of their existing restaurant. At lunch time anyway, all of those restaurants around Mkt Sqr are packed.

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Call me a bit heartless, but I don't think a 9/11 memorial isn't very fitting condidering how small the connection it is. Name it after an someone local who did something noble or an officer that died in the line of duty. Hell, name a bench after Marvin.

It might not be a connection, but a memorial is a memorial, and wether the connection is small, it was an important event, was it not? It doesnt matter if there was a memorial in Pennsylvania or in Houston, because it was something that affected everybody. Maybe not in a big way, but i think the family or relatives who had somebody killed in Flight 93 would appreciate it.

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I disagree.

It would be like having a memorial for the OKC or the original WTC bombings here in Houston because a native died there.

If you're going to put a 9/11 for one person, then perhaps ALL victims with Houston ties from that day should have their names inscribed.

Better yet, leave it empty until the wars are over so all the (local) names that have fallen can be included properly honored.

Edited by ricco67
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I disagree.

It would be like having a memorial for the OKC or the original WTC bombings here in Houston because a native died there.

If you're going to put a 9/11 for one person, then perhaps ALL victims with Houston ties from that day should have their names inscribed.

Better yet, leave it empty until the wars are over so all the (local) names that have fallen can be included properly honored.

I disagree. Houston has the Holocaust Museum and it fits here. I think it's appropriate to have reminders everywhere of the destruction wrought from hatred all over the world. It might start to cause people to think before they start wars in the future.

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I disagree. Houston has the Holocaust Museum and it fits here. I think it's appropriate to have reminders everywhere of the destruction wrought from hatred all over the world. It might start to cause people to think before they start wars in the future.

The difference being is that it's a dedicated building for that history which was a global tragedy.

Once the war is over, I would not have any opposition to a related museum dedicated to that, but do it right, don't do it half baked. a modest plaque in a central park is a "feel good" measure I'm not thrilled about.

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The difference being is that it's a dedicated building for that history which was a global tragedy.

Once the war is over, I would not have any opposition to a related museum dedicated to that, but do it right, don't do it half baked. a modest plaque in a central park is a "feel good" measure I'm not thrilled about.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it is just a "feel good" measure. I still like the idea though. 9/11 affected more than just those people who happened to be in lower Manhattan that morning, and I'm not just referring to the fallout of the two wars we started as a result. First responders from around the US converged on New York en masse to help their fellow fire fighters, paramedics and police rescue people and begin the process of cleaning up the mess. Hell, my cousin's husband (who happens to live in Dallas) was one such person. I'm having a difficult time understanding why anyone would object to any memorial about 9/11. It's a very big part of the American persona, regardless of place or time. I'd rather see a museum too, but I really think anything larger than a memorial outside of New York would be the disingenuous "feel good" measure.

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Maybe you're right. Maybe it is just a "feel good" measure. I still like the idea though. 9/11 affected more than just those people who happened to be in lower Manhattan that morning, and I'm not just referring to the fallout of the two wars we started as a result. First responders from around the US converged on New York en masse to help their fellow fire fighters, paramedics and police rescue people and begin the process of cleaning up the mess. Hell, my cousin's husband (who happens to live in Dallas) was one such person. I'm having a difficult time understanding why anyone would object to any memorial about 9/11. It's a very big part of the American persona, regardless of place or time. I'd rather see a museum too, but I really think anything larger than a memorial outside of New York would be the disingenuous "feel good" measure.

A proper museum would be the proper venue, I believe.

Having such a structure in the future wouldn't be a "Feel good" measure, but a proper way to be in the proper context as to why things happened the way it happened.

The Holocaust didn't just happen, there was quite a few important event that led up to that event, and as such, a museum can be a proper way to put it all together....as long as it's not politicized.

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Maybe you're right. Maybe it is just a "feel good" measure. I still like the idea though. 9/11 affected more than just those people who happened to be in lower Manhattan that morning, and I'm not just referring to the fallout of the two wars we started as a result. First responders from around the US converged on New York en masse to help their fellow fire fighters, paramedics and police rescue people and begin the process of cleaning up the mess. Hell, my cousin's husband (who happens to live in Dallas) was one such person. I'm having a difficult time understanding why anyone would object to any memorial about 9/11. It's a very big part of the American persona, regardless of place or time. I'd rather see a museum too, but I really think anything larger than a memorial outside of New York would be the disingenuous "feel good" measure.

But, it this a memorial to all those victims with Houston connections, and all those first responders and others who came to the aid of those affected by the tragedy? From reading the admittedly incomplete statement, it appears that this is a memorial to only one person who died in the attack. It would appear that a 9/11 memorial in a centrally located park should honor ALL those who died and came to the aid of the injured, as opposed to just one person whose family pushed for it. Again, the article is short on details, but if that is the case, I would be in favor of a more inclusive memorial.

EDIT: Upon closer reading, it does appear that there is a broader memorial to all victims in addition to the garden dedicated to Lauren. I do not have a problem with that. Chances are, Lauren's family did a lot of work to make this happen.

Edited by RedScare
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A proper museum would be the proper venue, I believe.

Having such a structure in the future wouldn't be a "Feel good" measure, but a proper way to be in the proper context as to why things happened the way it happened.

The Holocaust didn't just happen, there was quite a few important event that led up to that event, and as such, a museum can be a proper way to put it all together....as long as it's not politicized.

Good example with the Holocaust, but it serves as a counterexample as well to your point.

I think we can agree that the current war didn't JUST HAPPEN,the 9/11 attacks though were the most important in the "leading up" to the war. And since we are all affected more by the war, than by 9/11(for some), a memorial for this attack seems fitting, EVEN if you think this is a "feel good" measure.

If they made a memorial for Kristelnacht (i dont know, but they probably did), it would be an important one either way.

So, if you still doubt that this "feel good" measure is just that, think about what the memorial is about. That event helped lead to the war. And im sure there are more Houston ties to the war, than there is to related 9/11 attacks.

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Good example with the Holocaust, but it serves as a counterexample as well to your point.

I think we can agree that the current war didn't JUST HAPPEN,the 9/11 attacks though were the most important in the "leading up" to the war. And since we are all affected more by the war, than by 9/11(for some), a memorial for this attack seems fitting, EVEN if you think this is a "feel good" measure.

If they made a memorial for Kristelnacht (i dont know, but they probably did), it would be an important one either way.

So, if you still doubt that this "feel good" measure is just that, think about what the memorial is about. That event helped lead to the war. And im sure there are more Houston ties to the war, than there is to related 9/11 attacks.

Kristelnacht is worth noting as the beginning, but not the start of it.

9/11 wasn't the "leading up" to the war, it was a culmination of a series of events that started near the beginning of the first war.

But I don't want to rehash the politics and I don't wanna give the "Truthers" fits.

If a memorial needs to be built, do it in another part of the city or another park that is larger than MSP.

I still think a Museum would be a more appropriate venue and that a memorial to a particularly notable local person should be made instead.

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more information and some renderings on/of market square park:

downtown district

culture map

Aw, man...that's very disappointing. At least the current crappy Market Square is not totally useless, in the fact that you can see clear across it. :(

But I guess all those dog owners that live around Market Square will like the fact now their dogs have a place to "walk". :D

This would be really cool...if it were in 1986 San Leon.

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Aw, man...that's very disappointing. At least the current crappy Market Square is not totally useless, in the fact that you can see clear across it. :(

But I guess all those dog owners that live around Market Square will like the fact now their dogs have a place to "walk". :D

This would be really cool...if it were in 1986 San Leon.

I disagree... I think it is a definite improvement over what currently exists. And adding the Nikko Nikko's Cafe should bring people to the park. The surrounding businesses will gain customers.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A dog run is one of the BEST things they could have added. You'd be surprised how many downtown loft owners who own dogs. This will help build a community.

However, I think the play area is overkill. How many kids live downtown? While I notice residents walking dogs, I don't think I've seen a single stroller in that area.

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A dog run is one of the BEST things they could have added. You'd be surprised how many downtown loft owners who own dogs. This will help build a community.

However, I think the play area is overkill. How many kids live downtown? While I notice residents walking dogs, I don't think I've seen a single stroller in that area.

I just saw a T.V. special on 13 last night about the square. The plans, and story are on the Channel 13 website. The part I liked is the historical area, and the WiFi area. I love downtown at night, not doing anything really, just hanging out. This would be perfect for that. Hopefully, they'll police it well, as I have had problems with panhandlers, and mental homeless - types. Looks super though!

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However, I think the play area is overkill. How many kids live downtown? While I notice residents walking dogs, I don't think I've seen a single stroller in that area.

There might not be many kids living downtown, but that hasn't hurt business at Discovery Green. Build it and they will come.

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I'm pretty sure theres not any people that play basketball living DT, but that doesn't stop anybody from playing in Root Memorial Square next to the Toyota Center.

Nice article in the Chron.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6841063.html

And this blog was cool to look at

http://blogs.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/2010/01/the_many_sides_of_market_square_1.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Fbayoucityhistory+%28Bayou+City+History%29

Edited by citizen4rmptown
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Yeah, but the Discovery Green offers way more than a playscape. There's dancing fountains, entertainment, seasonal ice skating, playgrounds, a pond for remote control boats, etc... that's a destination park.

I like the dog run and love the idea of bringing an "outdoor Niko Nikos" to Market Square, but I'd rather them leave more green/open space then add another feature. I guess you could argue that mom's might take their little tykes there to eat and let them loose on the playscape ala Lupe Tortillas though...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Agree on the memorial bit. Niko Nikos is brilliant. It's about time they expanded. I just hope they can stay in business at that location. It seems a lot of food joints have come and gone on Market Square.

I think that this historic park is very important to the city and I think it deserves to be recognized for it's historical importance as being where the city originally began. The bell tower that is at the corner of Congress/Travis was originally on the courthouse built on this location. I heard that it some how lost and later recovered from a fire dept. that some how ended up having it at their location. I believe that this area should have something that makes it really stand out and distinguished and am not sure what would do this, but felt like something along the lines of some type of tall monument which would remain lit at night that branded the location would be really neat. Maybe this is corny, but perhaps a torch light which stood for the spark that started the city's beginning.

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I think that this historic park is very important to the city and I think it deserves to be recognized for it's historical importance as being where the city originally began. The clock located within the clock tower(correction) 301 Travis (the corner of Congress/Travis) was originally on the courthouse built on this location. I heard that it some how lost and later recovered from a fire dept. that some how ended up having it at their location. I believe that this area should have something that makes it really stand out and distinguished and am not sure what would do this, but felt like something along the lines of some type of tall monument which would remain lit at night that branded the location would be really neat. Maybe this is corny, but perhaps a torch light which stood for the spark that started the city's beginning.

Saw this cool picture of the clock (housed in the and clock tower)on the home page of Houston Architecture today. I heard that the clock was originally located in Market Square Park.

Here is the link: http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/Building/2248/Market_Square_Clock_Tower.php

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