Market Square Park At 301 Milam St.

[TheNiche]

Root Memorial was updated into a very useful and attractive setting, and Discovery Green promises to be a major amenity, but Market Square doesn't really jump out at me in the same way despite its prime location. As an open question to everyone, I'd like to ask how you think Market Square might be improved (if you think it needs improvement).

[musicman]

the park is nice but i think the biggest distraction for me is that in the past, it really was a "square" with businesses surrounding it. now, you have one side that is a parking lot, and another that is 1/2 lot/1/2 parking garage. having smaller business fronts all around would improve the park atmosphere IMO.

the negatives for me are the pet owners sure use it and leave the dog "residue" there and sometimes the homeless become aggressive.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I like Market sqaure, I would replace or get rid of that awful sculpture though. Maybe add a chess table and concessions. I think the development of the surrounding buildings (that defunct Mexican restaurant)and surface lots is key to the park's vibrancy.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Houstonian in Iraq

[gonzo1976]

Funny, I didn't know they cleaned up Root Square Park. That might be worth checking out.

When I look at Market Square, I try to imagine it when the City Hall/Market was there. I came along a little too late to remember it as the Bowen Bus Center, but still, it must have really been a hub of activity during all those decades.

Now, I don't think I would walk through there at night. Lots of panhandlers in the area.

But, yeah, I'd like to see something done with it. Converting it for nighttime use would be difficult. Other than another Jones Plaza, I'm not sure what uses the park would have at night.

[WesternGulf]

I have to admit I have never been attracted to the actual park at Market Square. I think one thing is the view that is from the "square". It feels to open if that makes sense. Do a flickr seacrh of "market square houston" to see what I mean. Adding more mature trees wouldn't hurt either. Not just on the square but on the sidewalks that are in the vicinity of the sqaure. Too much concrete is visible from that place. Baldwin Park in Midtown has a more enclosed feel than Market Square.

Edited March 30, 2007 by WesternGulf

[The Great Hizzy!]

I like Market sqaure, I would replace or get rid of that awful sculpture though. Maybe add a chess table and concessions. I think the development of the surrounding buildings (that defunct Mexican restaurant)and surface lots is key to the park's vibrancy.

If you're talking about the former La Tapatia at the corner of Milam and Congress, that place has already been converted into a new restaurant called Sofia's. I don't know the cuisine but I believe they've been open a few weeks now. I just saw a bunch of luncheoneers there this past week. But otherwise, I agree. If The Niche's hint that there's at least the possibility of a hotel being developed on the parking lot south of there proves to be true, then that would help a lot.

As for the park itself, I agree that the statuary seems subpar. I'd also like to see more fountains. Something that mists, maybe.

[Houston19514]

They need to start from scratch and do a total redesign. They current design practically screams "keep out!! You may walk on the path/tunnels around and through, but this grass is just here to look at; don't even think about climbing up on to it." Something like DuPont Circle would be good there. A large fountain in the middle, surrounded by paths, benches, chess tables, trees, some open lawn space. Then patrol it so it's safe and clean (ie. enforce the pooper scooper laws).

[MidtownCoog]

They need to start from scratch and do a total redesign. They current design practically screams "keep out!! You may walk on the path/tunnels around and through, but this grass is just here to look at; don't even think about climbing up on to it."

That's what squares are supposed to scream. Just like Leicester Square in London. It's by design. It's a square, not a park.

And they close off Leicester Square at 10:00.

[bachanon]

yes, i agree. total redesign. the sunken walkways and messy presentation of houston's past do nothing for the square.

i think the square should be an extension of existing restaurants/bars facing it. i don't mind the sculpture. use it as a centerpiece for a large fountain. surround the fountain with chess tables (as earlier mentioned) and cafe tables; leave room for trees and landscaping and make sure it is well lit at night. allow a hot dog vendor or two and make the square "street musician friendly" (whatever that means). it will be a great place to meet before/after eating or hanging out at one of the bordering establishments.

i believe the surface parking lot across the street from market square is being discussed for a potential new development. hopefully it will have retail space on the first floor, facing the square.

edit: park edited to square

Edited March 30, 2007 by bachanon

[MidtownCoog]

It's not a park, it's a square!

[lockmat]

I have to admit I have never been attracted to the actual park at Market Square. I think one thing is the view that is from the "square". It feels to open if that makes sense. Do a flickr seacrh of "market square houston" to see what I mean. Adding more mature trees wouldn't hurt either. Not just on the square but on the sidewalks that are in the vicinity of the sqaure. Too much concrete is visible from that place. Baldwin Park in Midtown has a more enclosed feel than Market Square.

I searched on flickr. One person said that they have booths that you can set up every Saturday I think, to sell art for $15. Cool.

Other than that, does someone have a block I can search for on live.com? I've never been to this park and want to check it out.

[sevfiv]

I searched on flickr. One person said that they have booths that you can set up every Saturday I think, to sell art for $15. Cool.

Other than that, does someone have a block I can search for on live.com? I've never been to this park and want to check it out.

try preston at travis, 77002

look for the counter-clockwise swastika

oops - here's the local.live link

Edited March 30, 2007 by sevfiv

[lockmat]

try preston at travis, 77002

look for the counter-clockwise swastika

oops - here's the local.live link

Thanks for doing that, I appreciate it.

Do yall know what that is to the north-west of the lot? That looks weird.

[sevfiv]

Thanks for doing that, I appreciate it.

Do yall know what that is to the north-west of the lot? That looks weird.

if you're talking about the fan-blade-looking-thing, i think it is/was a bank

[musicman]

if you're talking about the fan-blade-looking-thing, i think it is/was a bank

it is a bank. that is one of my most used atm machines

[lockmat]

it is a bank. that is one of my most used atm machines

Is that what it was originally built to be or was it converted? That's weird lookin, but cool too. At least from an arial view.

[musicman]

Is that what it was originally built to be or was it converted? That's weird lookin, but cool too. At least from an arial view.

only a bank drive thru.

[Houston19514]

It's not a park, it's a square!

It's a square park ;-)

It's part of the City of Houston PARKS department. They seem to think it is a PARK: "The PARK at Market Square is a sylvan oasis near the busy Harris County Courthouse complex and the Theater District."

Market Square

[Vertigo58]

I'd like to ask how you think Market Square might be improved (if you think it needs improvement).

Not a very good photo but I would definetely fill in with tons of dirt to create a slope then place foliage throughout. That way visitors have a good view of their surroundings from all angles to matter where they stand or sit. In other words no obstruction of views by passing busses/cars. I would then add turn of century lighting fixtures and just make the whole thing look antique like, as in the Gilded Age. To heck with modern.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Vertigo58

[Overseas]

It's a square park ;-)

It's part of the City of Houston PARKS department. They seem to think it is a PARK: "The PARK at Market Square is a sylvan oasis near the busy Harris County Courthouse complex and the Theater District."

Market Square

There have been suggestions to improve Market Square by making it more lively. The idea that it is a park seems to be the reason why it wasn't. At least according to these guys:

http://www.pps.org/info/newsletter/decembe...erperforming_us

"Several years ago, PPS developed recommendations to locate an actual public market in Market Square. But we were told that Market Square was a "park," and as such, no commercial activity could take place there. Decision makers chose a silly design that did nothing but continue to keep people away. "

I think I remember reading that a market was tried here in recently but it didn't catch on, though, so who knows, maybe the city allowed commercial activity eventually.

[dbigtex56]

if you're talking about the fan-blade-looking-thing, i think it is/was a bank

I forget which bank initially built it in the early 80s, but it was prominently featured in the 1984 movie "Paris, Texas".

[ToolMan]

I think I remember reading that a market was tried here in recently but it didn't catch on, though, so who knows, maybe the city allowed commercial activity eventually.

They tried it last year and the year before, but nobody ever showed up...there we booths and some food vendors. Downtown is trying, but people aren't participating.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I forget which bank initially built it in the early 80s, but it was prominently featured in the 1984 movie "Paris, Texas".

Isn't it a Chase Bank now?

That would make me wonder if wasn't originally a Texas Commerce Bank. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Texas Commerce eventually became Chase. Was TCB morphed from something previous?)

[WesternGulf]

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Texas Commerce eventually became Chase. Was TCB morphed from something previous?)

Correct. Original name of Chase Tower was Texas Commerce.

[jmancuso]

it's the jpmorgan chase tower now.

[Vertigo58]

Before 9/11 you could ride to the very top of Chase tower and get a perfect birds eye view of the city looking south/southwest, but you had to have a strong stomach on winding days as that sucker would sway big time. I recall speaking to a secretary/attendant and the venetian blinds were hitting the glass window behind her. She was ever so calm.

Ooops were drifting from the topic! Yikes!

[Jax]

You can still go up there, just not to the very top. Just go into the lobby, take the elevator to the sky lobby and enjoy the view. I've never felt it swaying before.

[WesternGulf]

but you had to have a strong stomach on winding days as that sucker would sway big time.

I want some of what you were smokin' on those days. J/K. Butr I never had the feeling of the building swaying.

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

Help shape the future of Market Square Park! Two public workshops will be held on June 25th & 26th to discuss improvements to this unique green space in the heart of downtown Houston

[Subdude]

A "sylvan oasis." My, my. I wish I could write that way.

But anyway, I'm curious as to what is driving this. Is there a perception that there is a problem with the design of Market Square? I always thought it was OK, all things considered. Probably the best things you could do for it would be to redevelop the surface lot on the south side and get rid of the big parking garage on the west side. The focus shouldn't be on the square as much as the buildings around it. Too bad some of the city's oldest structures around it have been torn down.

Also, what happens at a "Place Making Workshop"?

[musicman]

A "sylvan oasis." My, my. I wish I could write that way.

But anyway, I'm curious as to what is driving this. Is there a perception that there is a problem with the design of Market Square? I always thought it was OK, all things considered. Probably the best things you could do for it would be to redevelop the surface lot on the south side and get rid of the big parking garage on the west side. The focus shouldn't be on the square as much as the buildings around it. Too bad some of the city's oldest structures around it have been torn down.

Also, what happens at a "Place Making Workshop"?

this is one of those wish list type things like asking that CVS put apartments over their store in midtown.

i agree with your comments sub.

EDIT: just sent this to a merchant and the response was that the owner should go "just to make sure Carol doesn't f-it up!"

Edited June 11, 2007 by musicman

[TheNiche]

Probably the best things you could do for it would be to redevelop the surface lot on the south side and get rid of the big parking garage on the west side. The focus shouldn't be on the square as much as the buildings around it.

Can't put the cart before the horse...

Also, what happens at a "Place Making Workshop"?

Depends on who's running it. Either 1) City officials attempt to persuade the public that they have a say over something that is completely beyond their control, or 2) City officials tell you what they want to do, provide a few moments for you to ask questions for which there are no clear answers, and then you go home.

[musicman]

Depends on who's running it. Either 1) City officials attempt to persuade the public that they have a say over something that is completely beyond their control, or 2) City officials tell you what they want to do, provide a few moments for you to ask questions for which there are no clear answers, and then you go home.

LOL so true.

[TheNiche]

Link to related thread from months ago

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

LOL so true.

Yep. Like Niche said it's a "wish list" meeting. Probably nothing will come out of it, but I thought I would share the info.

[MidtownCoog]

I think the perception, as I have said before, is a lack of understanding by Houstonians as to what makes a

[TheNiche]

I think the perception, as I have said before, is a lack of understanding by Houstonians as to what makes a

[tigereye]

First off, let me say that the parking lot south of Market Square Park needs to go immediately! It is the absolute worst spot a parking lot could be located in this city to date. That parking lot single-handedly destroys any urban ambience this park has tried to create at all....

So with that in mind, here's my idea......

Market Square Park needs to expand to the parking lot directly south of the park in an effort to make it more urban in a Central Park-type way with development bordering all sides of the park. Close down the section of Preston St that would run directly through the middle of this expanded park, so the park will run complete and uninterrupted by traffic. Then in the middle of the now expanded park, add a water feature centering around a sculpture (maybe move the Beatles sculpture to this site)....basically create a more memoriable and dramatic, stand-out signature for the park, in the heart of the park. I believe some for of dramaic signature might serve as an attaction to pull in visitors, unlike the Points of View stature the current park has. From there, add more decorative lighting for enhancement and night-time safety. Finally, add more park benches & chess tables to complement the additional green space added via expansion, thus offering more places where workers in nearby office towers or residents in nearby lofts can come to kill time in the peaceful surroundings of this true urban park, that is conveniently located nearby.

Edited June 18, 2007 by tigereye

[musicman]

So with that in mind, here's my idea......

Market Square Park needs to expand to the parking lot directly south of the park in an effort to make it more urban in a Central Park-type way with development bordering all sides of the park. Close down the section of Preston St that would run directly through the middle of this expanded park, so the park will run complete and uninterrupted by traffic. Then in the middle of the now expanded park, add a water feature centering around a sculpture (maybe move the Beatles sculpture to this site)....basically create a more memoriable and dramatic, stand-out signature for the park, in the heart of the park. I believe some for of dramaic signature might serve as an attaction to pull in visitors, unlike the Points of View stature the current park has. From there, add more decorative lighting for enhancement and night-time safety. Finally, add more park benches & chess tables to complement the additional green space added via expansion, thus offering more places where workers in nearby office towers or residents in nearby lofts can come to kill time in the peaceful surroundings of this true urban park, that is conveniently located nearby.

How can it expand to encompass the lot AND have development bordering all sides? unless you want to look at the back of the chronicle on one block and a parking garage on another, taking over the lot wouldn't be as dramatic as you envision.

[eLy383Inc]

Anything happen at the meeting? I couldn't make it. Just wondering if anything will change... Thanks

[RedScare]

Close down the section of Preston St that would run directly through the middle of this expanded park, so the park will run complete and uninterrupted by traffic.

You've never watched the traffic on Preston at 8 in the morning have you?

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

You've never watched the traffic on Preston at 8 in the morning have you?

Or the street before it, Prairie, trying to get on Memorial at 5. It's a cluster f#$%. Closing any of these streets would be a disaster.

[2112]

The problems with the current park configuration is that it is uninviting. It is especially uninviting at night, and borders on scary. The lawns slope upward, so that you get a sense that you are walking into a secluded area where you can't be seen from the outside , a place where once you get in, you feel like you are trapped, again, especially at night. I think the slopes should go away. That is the first thing to make it less scary. The other thing is that it feels like a maze, that is, the way you have no choice but to go diagonal to get anywhere inside it, which I should add, there is not much of "anywhere" to actually go too. The whole configuration just has a very inconvenient way about it. Compare this to something like Bryant Park in NYC. There is lush green all around the perimeter, with the inside of the perimeter lined with benches and areas to sit in. There are outdoor tables and such, and an openess that invites such that you dont feel closed in. It is almost more of a plaza, except there is green all around you. Maybe something like Bryant Park would be better for our Market Square.

[sevfiv]

an interesting read from 1986:

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1986_431385

WHAT to do with Market Square?

The question has dogged city planners for years, and today the future of that square in the north end of the downtown business district looks quite inviting, thanks to the cooperative efforts of planners, architects, political bodies, and most especially to five artists whose contributions have been orchestrated by DiverseWorks.

[...]

Five artists will provide the ornamental and entertainment aspects of Market Square. Doug Hollis of Houston and Richard Turner of Los Angeles are a team responsible for embedding relics of the past - artifacts and tiled photos of razed area buildings - in the sidewalks. Photographer Paul Hester has been commissioned to choose 20 archival photos and produce 20 new ones; and Malou Flato of Austin will construct four benches for the outer rim of the park, covered by hand-painted tiles. At the center James Surls' tall botanical structure of wood, to be embedded in concrete and assembled with the help of a crane, will be the plaza's center focus.

There is a freshness and bit of zaniness, together with a touch of nostalgia, in this plan - an honest linking of past and present in a way that should be refreshing at all seasons.

Edited July 8, 2007 by sevfiv

[musicman]

The problems with the current park configuration is that it is uninviting. It is especially uninviting at night, and borders on scary. The lawns slope upward, so that you get a sense that you are walking into a secluded area where you can't be seen from the outside , a place where once you get in, you feel like you are trapped, again, especially at night. I think the slopes should go away.

2112, you've made the same comment as one of the merchants. evidently one patron was mugged in the sunken area a few yrs back. currently, i only walk around the park as it has become a doggie potty. many lame owners don't pick their pets' crap up.

[bkjones98]

I go eat at the Market Sq. Cafe and Treedbeard

[Jax]

The only times I see market square are during the weekends/after 5 and of course, nobody is there. Do people use the "park" or "square" or whatever on weekdays? Do people eat lunch there and stuff? Or does it just sit empty most of the time?

I am really hoping that the new downtown park becomes a park that people actually use - like Hermann Park.

[jim1960]

MarchFourth-35 piece marching band from Portland is on a national tour including the Hollywood Bowl,the Kennedy Center in Washington, the Knitting Factory in NYC and Market Square Park in Houston...it is a free show at 6:30 friday Oct 19... they are with horns, drums, unicycles, puppets, stiltwalkers, firebreathers and full on theatrical production... art car mentality meets circus soleil but with a world revival brass sound...no beer sponsors so support the neighborhood bars and enjoy a fun show...appropriate from 7 to 70 years old...the city is helping out to point out there is still a cool beat downtown...I apologize if this is considered promotion or an inappropriate post but the purpose is to promote the neighborhood not any particular business...

Edited October 16, 2007 by jim1960

[Poppahop]

An olla podrida of food, humanity and merchandise

[SunKing]

An olla podrida of food, humanity and merchandise

Interesting article - thanks for the link!