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Crime In The Woodlands To Decrease


bachanon

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Woodlands maps out law enforcement patrol zones

Tentative boundaries are set for new policing initiative

By BETH KUHLES

Chronicle Correspondent

Draft Patrol Zones for The Woodlands

The Woodlands is reviewing a tentative zone map for its new community policing initiative, which is based on geography, road access and call volumes. The zones will not be finalized until May, when the hiring of all 30 new deputies and supervisors for The Woodlands division is complete. Following are the villages as they are covered in the draft plan:

Edited by bachanon
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ahh bach. We are moving back to Houston. So I will have my local HPD Officer working for the Association patrol to complain to.

FYI. The man standing in our backyard at 11pm last month was not a local kiddo. B) But it was nothing two good dogs and some old fashion Texas Gun waving couldn't handle. Being that it would be a non priority call, since he wasn't trying to get into the house yet, we didn't really want to wait 20 minutes for back up. I don't think he'll be back. :D

But the officer who came later in the evening was really nice and took a description. But I'm glad you guys will have the coverage you should have had years ago.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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ahh bach. We are moving back to Houston. So I will have my local HPD Officer working for the Association patrol to complain to.

FYI. The man standing in our backyard at 11pm last month was not a local kiddo. B) But it was nothing two good dogs and some old fashion Texas Gun waving couldn't handle. Being that it would be a non priority call, since he wasn't trying to get into the house yet, we didn't really want to wait 20 minutes for back up. I don't think he'll be back. :D

But the officer who came later in the evening was really nice and took a description. But I'm glad you guys will have the coverage you should have had years ago.

are you serious? that scares me. i've never thought there were freaks about like that.

i'm sorry to hear that you are moving and i'm unhappy that your woodlands experience was negative. there are days when i think i should've purchased something inside the loop. the intellectual capacity of many i've met here has been unsatisfying. i miss the creative intellects who tend to live near rice, st. thomas and montrose. i miss having people challenge my statements. people up here just think i'm a brainiac. inner loopers make me work for it. ;)

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are you serious? that scares me. i've never thought there were freaks about like that.

Yeah we Texans have been known to wave guns from time to time. ;)

Anyway Bach, the Woodlands is a great place for many. I just prefer, as you say, more challenge and some buzz around me. I like the housewives around me to be busy in more than just school,sports and neighborhood gossip...not that there is anything wrong with that...........<crickets churp> Also, this "holing up" in the house thing is so foriegn to me. Hubby loves the house and enjoys many aspects of the place, but the lack of service and drive is not fun for him. It was 45 minutes when we moved here, now its up to 90. Last Friday it took him 2.5 hours to get home. I really enjoy him and want him to have more family time.

I am sad for us that this didn't work out, but life is a series of lessons and we just went for a detour for two and a half of them.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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i can't blame you for wanting to live in town. i love the woodlands for esoteric and financial reasons. i'm sure i would be more at home in town. when i purchased my house here, my friends in town were perplexed. i was raised in suburbia, but i'm not a suburban person. go figure.

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crime in the woodlands to decrease

i'm not sure if that's the best title. hopefully it will decrease as a result of hiring more officers but there's no guarantee.

no, but i wanted to counter the title.........."crime in the woodlands increasing". what proof is there that crime has increased in the woodlands? who is to say that crime was increased because of a lack of officers?

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no, but i wanted to counter the title.........."crime in the woodlands increasing". what proof is there that crime has increased in the woodlands? who is to say that crime was increased because of a lack of officers?

the original article said....crimes, such as rape and murder, are rare in The Woodlands, but at least some residents say minor crimes

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it seems as if you've proved my point.

lack of officers.......increase in crime along with increase in population.

i deduce that an increase in officers will decrease crime.

this may or may not be a true statement. however, to assume that an increase in crime is a result of less officers, then one can assume that an increase in officers will decrease crime.

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it seems as if you've proved my point.

lack of officers.......increase in crime along with increase in population.

i deduce that an increase in officers will decrease crime.

this may or may not be a true statement. however, to assume that an increase in crime is a result of less officers, then one can assume that an increase in officers will decrease crime.

hopefully it will ;)

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I think by having officers, you acknowledge that there is crime, and so it increases perceived crime and danger. By not having any officers, you maintain the utopian perception of the Woodlands, and do not worry about crime as much. It's like how some people believe owning a gun makes them safer, while others believe not owning a gun makes them feel safer.

Bachanon- Hopefully this gives you the intellectual challenge that you felt was missing from your Woodlands neighbors.

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It's like how some people believe owning a gun makes them safer

I don't believe anymore, I know. This was the second time I had to get the gun since we have lived here. (My son tore down the stairs thinking it was his ride to a sleep over, and before I could stop him he opened the door to some crazy woman. NO, it wasn't a housewife off her Xanex. This one was cracked out and waving her hands everywhere not making any sense. Hubby was trying to get her to move on but she started getting agressive. I got the pistol out just in case. You never know what 'buddies" she had waiting down the street in a car. )

14 years in the Galleria area I NEVER had a problem. But we do keep it in a pistol safe next to the bed with a finger touch code. We have all the hunting weapons in a gun safe.

Ralo, nothing beats good dogs!

Edited by KatieDidIt
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It's like how some people believe owning a gun makes them safer

I don't believe anymore, I know. This was the second time I had to get the gun since we have lived here. (My son tore down the stairs thinking it was his ride to a sleep over, and before I could stop him he opened the door to some crazy woman. NO, it wasn't a housewife off her Xanex. This one was cracked out and waving her hands everywhere not making any sense. Hubby was trying to get her to move on but she started getting agressive. I got the pistol out just in case. You never know what 'buddies" she had waiting down the street in a car. )

14 years in the Galleria area I NEVER had a problem. But we do keep it in a pistol safe next to the bed with a finger touch code. We have all the hunting weapons in a gun safe.

Ralo, nothing beats good dogs!

Having a gun gives a false sense of security. I have them but try never to pull one out even in a bad situation. Have a beat cop nearby helps remove me from enforcement myself. The utopia is only a perception from the outside. Inside we are all aware of the issues. There are little and big crimes to deal with here. Our kids have ready access to drugs, the traffic races on The Woodlands Race Track are a constant threat, and I am sure there are other ways to look at these problems. Complain about a noisy automobile and you are asked to go out and get the license plate yourself. Need to take my gun with me possibly if I have to go find the culprit myself? NOT! :wacko:

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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Having a gun gives a false sense of security. I have them but try never to pull one out even in a bad situation.

I agree, while it is good for some (possessing a gun) I always have that idea that the prowler could wrestle it out your hands and use it one you! Just a bit paranoid I guess. :(

Good thing The Woodlands police/security are trying to manage what it has now (crime wise) otherwise it will spin out of control. The larger the community the harder it gets. I just wish some of the people they interview on TV would stop blaming Houston for their increasing crime in The Woodlands.

It's such a cop out. (no pun intended). :)

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It's like how some people believe owning a gun makes them safer

I don't believe anymore, I know. This was the second time I had to get the gun since we have lived here. (My son tore down the stairs thinking it was his ride to a sleep over, and before I could stop him he opened the door to some crazy woman. NO, it wasn't a housewife off her Xanex. This one was cracked out and waving her hands everywhere not making any sense. Hubby was trying to get her to move on but she started getting agressive. I got the pistol out just in case. You never know what 'buddies" she had waiting down the street in a car. )

14 years in the Galleria area I NEVER had a problem. But we do keep it in a pistol safe next to the bed with a finger touch code. We have all the hunting weapons in a gun safe.

Ralo, nothing beats good dogs!

You went for the pistol because some crazy woman was at the door? Sounds a bit extreme to me. I thought the only guns in the Woodlands were kids running around with NERF guns and water guns. What happened to the utopia? Seriously though, I wouldn't think you'd need one living around the Beltway (Jersey Village area) like I do, much less the Woodlands.

I don't think that crime would escalate as the population grows, as long as the demographics remain homogenous. There are three things that would keep crime in the Woodlands extremely low to almost non-existent, even considering population increases: those would be its remote location along I-45 North, the demographics (socio-economic), and the strong sense of community, both in the residents and inherent in the way the Woodlands was created.

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You went for the pistol because some crazy woman was at the door? Sounds a bit extreme to me. I thought the only guns in the Woodlands were kids running around with NERF guns and water guns. What happened to the utopia? Seriously though, I wouldn't think you'd need one living around the Beltway (Jersey Village area) like I do, much less the Woodlands.

I don't think that crime would escalate as the population grows, as long as the demographics remain homogenous. There are three things that would keep crime in the Woodlands extremely low to almost non-existent, even considering population increases: those would be its remote location along I-45 North, the demographics (socio-economic), and the strong sense of community, both in the residents and inherent in the way the Woodlands was created.

Let me expound. I don't know why I feel the need to do so with you, but your posts in the past have been so off base about a place you have never lived. My husband was at the door. She was crazy, aggressive, not making any sense and edging into our threshold. Who knows who was waiting for her in a car down the street to help her. I went into the bedroom and unlocked the safe. I never came out of the room but something wasn't right. I had two boys upstairs and a really strange situation going on. Do I think, "Oh its the Woodlands, faddie la, nothing bad could happen in ShangraFakingLa?" No, I think to protect. After more than two year without police presence, why would I suddenly think the cavalry was going to come help? This is pretty much a candyland to those who want easy pickings, or for those who want to steal property or kids.

The Woodlands is NOT a utopia. NO place is. The demographics are no longer homogeneous (not that that really promotes safety).OUr little neighborhood has evolved into 60% Angleo 35% Latin and the rest is Asian and African American.

And one of the reason I look forward to moving back to Houston is for the pride and loyalty to the neighborhood. I'm sorry, but in general there is no sense of community here. How can there be? People stay here on average 5 years and move. I think I have met one native Woodlander, the rest are using this as a landing pad and pining away for home that is somewhere else.

REAL Community and the REAL small town feel comes from generations (or at least two) having grown up in an area. Pride and the desire to have a good community for their grandkids, to make a place better themselves not just write a check and assume it will be taking care of in a nice neat package, is what makes a place wonderful. And that place can be surrounded by "hoods" and function better than any "Developed Home Town."

The Woodlands isn't perfect, it isn't crime a crime ridden ghetto, its just a place. Weird things happen everywhere. It isn't a bubble, residents pretend there is one so they don't have to worry about anything. Seems to me you have bought the Big Brother Propaganda The Development Company spews.

Peace Out

Edited by KatieDidIt
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I don't think that crime would escalate as the population grows, as long as the demographics remain homogenous. There are three things that would keep crime in the Woodlands extremely low to almost non-existent, even considering population increases: those would be its remote location along I-45 North, the demographics (socio-economic), and the strong sense of community, both in the residents and inherent in the way the Woodlands was created.

remember, the criminals don't necessarily live there. the economic conditions there are why criminals go there particularly if they know the police force is small.

Edited by musicman
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remember, the criminals don't necessarily live there. the economic conditions there are why criminals go there particularly if they know the police force is small.

Bravo! I have known and worked with some of the residents that live there (Woodlands) and they are always boasting of how perfect life is there. Television (Hot on Houston for example) always fuel the dream like illusion that all is sunshine & lollipops in The Woodlands. This only encourages ...lets see can't think of a politically correct word for it, lower element to infiltrate the area.

Someone needs to talk to the writers of that show to be sure to add "security is of its highest" or does that scare away potential buyers? It's all about the mighty $ I'm afraid. :mellow:

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Hey, you guys are freaking me out a little bit. We live in Houston, and we are seriously considering moving to the Woodlands. We know several families who have moved out there/been there for at least five years and they love it and plan on staying out there. We are moving hoping to find a safer place/better schools for our family. I'd like to know..what villages are y'all talking about where you have these loonies walking around and knocking on your doors? Are you in the back of the Woodlands(like Alden Bridge areas?) Thank a lot for your input-

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NAtive, I am in Sterling Ridge. In general the Woodlands is safe, just the police force was not what was needed and they should have beefed it up years ago. BUt apparently it will get better. You have your loons here just like you would anywhere. Serious crime is rare. The service the area provides is lack-luster for the associations fees, imho....and they don't give a darn about the residents.

School- Honestly they aren't any better than SBISD. In fact our friends who have kids in SBISD seem to be a little ahead. Its just cheaper to live here for the schools. And CISD is very interested in the EXCELLENT ranking on the TAKS and devote most of the education towards getting that ranking. And we are very behind the private institutions, according to all the schools we have interviewed with. Verdict is still out on what the booming ESL program will do to the district, who doesn't even teach spanish in the program.

Area- The demographics are quickly changing. A large Latin population is calling this their school home. Bringing their kids in from Mexico to learn english and have a safer world to grow up in. Being from Houston this doesn't bother me, but there is a bit of a culture clash going on.

You certainly get more house for your money, but then you are stuck in the middle of no where and burning up the roads to get anywhere.

Taxes and Association Fees- Outrageous. Enough said.

Commute to Houston- Getting more ridiculous everyday

NAtive, its a good place. Some love it. Many like it. Many find what is here "enough" for them. Many are unhappy but know its best for their kids to stay here until they get through school. Most are traveling on through until the next transfer. Us? We are moving back to Houston.

When we moved here it was a balanced choice, when you had pros and cons on paper. It still is. But there is just an untouchable something that is missing for us as a family and we are willing to make some sacrifics in moving back to Houston. Houston has a lot of soul and pride and feels like a small town within a city. We miss all that.

........................

Bach to address your brainiac statement. I have heard so many comments directed toward me since I moved here like : How do you know so much? Where do you get all that energy? :unsure:

Never in my life has anyone asked me those questions until here.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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Bach to address your brainiac statement. I have heard so many comments directed toward me since I moved here like : How do you know so much? Where do you get all that energy? unsure.gif

Never in my life has anyone asked me those questions until here.

katiedidit: there is a real difference in the world view of someone who has been exposed to different cultures, the arts, museums, etc. and someone who has spent their life in a bubble, completely unaware of anything outside of their neighborhood, local church, school or shopping. not to diss the woodlands, but the difference is stark.

there are times when i'm with inner loopers types (some from around here) that i refrain from using certain words because i'm not quite sure if i'm using it in the proper context. on the other hand, there are times when i'm with locals from around here and i refrain from using certain words all together. words like imperative or plethora seem to cause a glossy effect in some people's eyes. i just stop mid-sentence and rephrase. don't get me wrong, i do not intend to demean people. however, i do believe it's a talent (knowing how to communicate with different kinds of people) worth honing. ;)

oh, and about the crazy woman at your house; i'm reminded of a man who came to our door one weeknight last year. it was after 8PM. he was wide eyed and unsettled. he asked me if i wanted to make money. he wanted to make some sort of a sales pitch. i ended his attempt to con me abruptly. i said that "solicitation in the woodlands is illegal". he became agitated. i told him that he needed to leave. i closed and locked the door before he got too far away from the front porch and i heard him screaming vulgarities as he walked away. i found out later, that these van loads of con artists were canvassing entire neighborhoods. they say they are selling magazine subscriptions, they want to show you something or they are selling a revolutionary cleaner (usually something from a store, repackaged at an inflated price). these people are rough around the edges, usually looking over their shoulder and a bit nervous. i hope that our new police force will put an end to this type of activity, more so than hiding behind trees looking for those EVIL traffic violators.

Edited by bachanon
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Bravo! I have known and worked with some of the residents that live there (Woodlands) and they are always boasting of how perfect life is there. Television (Hot on Houston for example) always fuel the dream like illusion that all is sunshine & lollipops in The Woodlands. This only encourages ...lets see can't think of a politically correct word for it, lower element to infiltrate the area.

Someone needs to talk to the writers of that show to be sure to add "security is of its highest" or does that scare away potential buyers? It's all about the mighty $ I'm afraid. :mellow:

Perhaps you and musicman could shed some light on this statement. Some statistics, maybe? A study showing that the criminals come from somewhere else? Your statement, and musicman's, suggest that maybe you two have fallen for the "sunshine pumping" of Hot on Houston as well. While anecdotal, during the 5 years that I operated a criminal defense office in the Woodlands, I never once met a defendant charged with a Woodlands area crime that was not from the Woodlands area. This is not to suggest that it never happens. In fact, I know of a couple of cases over the last 10 years where that was the case. However, the overwhelming majority of Woodlands crime....like virtually every neighborhood....is committed by those who live nearby. People go where they know. This includes criminals, who by and large, are opportunists.

If you have data that shows otherwise, I would love to see it.

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Perhaps you and musicman could shed some light on this statement. Some statistics, maybe? A study showing that the criminals come from somewhere else? Your statement, and musicman's, suggest that maybe you two have fallen for the "sunshine pumping" of Hot on Houston as well. While anecdotal, during the 5 years that I operated a criminal defense office in the Woodlands, I never once met a defendant charged with a Woodlands area crime that was not from the Woodlands area. This is not to suggest that it never happens. In fact, I know of a couple of cases over the last 10 years where that was the case. However, the overwhelming majority of Woodlands crime....like virtually every neighborhood....is committed by those who live nearby. People go where they know. This includes criminals, who by and large, are opportunists.

If you have data that shows otherwise, I would love to see it.

i've been attending the PIP meetings for over a decade where they talk about crime, crime patterns, etc. our area found the last captain very personable and would relay information to the various neighborhood organizations regarding crime in the immediate area and crime houston wide. petty crime tends to be more local yes. for instance, crime committed by teens. burglaries can happen anywhere yes, but he did state that neighborhoods that tend to be more well off and don't have a police presence (or other deterrents) are more of a target. there was a story on channel 13 just a month or so ago where ted oberg interviewed imprisoned repeated burglars who also mentioned the lack of police (dogs, etc). you hear all the ads on home alarm systems, etc. i found it very eye opening that the burglars didn't consider an alarm a deterrent. they stated that it take 5 mins for the alarm company to notify the police and in houston it takes at least 10 mins for the officers to respond so they try to be done before 15 mins. i honestly believe that criminals today are more bold than they were 20 yrs ago. it is amazing how much having a neighborhood watch drops crime. when criminal see a police/neighborhood presence, they tend to move to an area that has less police presence. he also stated that the criminal community does communicate amongst each other. whereever you live, you must be alert to possible crime and not become less alert because you feel your area should be safer than another.

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musicman, I saw the same piece on abc13 last month. Oberg reported most of the same things I have heard and learned over the years.

A couple of things. You left out the fact that Oberg reported that most burglaries occur within a short distance of where the burglar lives. While that could mean nothing in central Houston, where Memorial is a short distance from Gulfton, it is a big deal in the Woodlands, where some neighborhoods are 45 minutes or more from the "lower elements" that Vertigo referred to. Also, I think the communication in the criminal community is vastly overstated. There is a belief by many (especially young DAs) that the criminals are organized like a frat, where they meet regularly to discuss the overthrow of the homeowner. It is much more organic and disjointed than that. Bored teens and 20-somethings looking for something to do, or a little cash may come up with a scheme to break into neighbor's homes. Crackheads, while lighting a pipe, might tell each other where to find copper, or where the valuables are hidden in homes. But, it is not a professional development seminar. It is more like you and your neighbor making idle chat about the best way to get rid of crabgrass.

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musicman, I saw the same piece on abc13 last month. Oberg reported most of the same things I have heard and learned over the years.

A couple of things. You left out the fact that Oberg reported that most burglaries occur within a short distance of where the burglar lives. While that could mean nothing in central Houston, where Memorial is a short distance from Gulfton, it is a big deal in the Woodlands, where some neighborhoods are 45 minutes or more from the "lower elements" that Vertigo referred to. Also, I think the communication in the criminal community is vastly overstated. There is a belief by many (especially young DAs) that the criminals are organized like a frat, where they meet regularly to discuss the overthrow of the homeowner. It is much more organic and disjointed than that. Bored teens and 20-somethings looking for something to do, or a little cash may come up with a scheme to break into neighbor's homes. Crackheads, while lighting a pipe, might tell each other where to find copper, or where the valuables are hidden in homes. But, it is not a professional development seminar. It is more like you and your neighbor making idle chat about the best way to get rid of crabgrass.

i didn't mean for the oberg piece to be of any info except to me that i'm so naive about certain things, like the info on alarms. the last captain at mykawa road i found to be eye opening about how bold they are. i don't think burglars are organized like a frat and target a specific homeowner (unless there's a nice car in the driveway perhaps) but i do believe they talk about areas where crime is easy.

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musicman, I saw the same piece on abc13 last month. Oberg reported most of the same things I have heard and learned over the years.

A couple of things. You left out the fact that Oberg reported that most burglaries occur within a short distance of where the burglar lives. While that could mean nothing in central Houston, where Memorial is a short distance from Gulfton, it is a big deal in the Woodlands, where some neighborhoods are 45 minutes or more from the "lower elements" that Vertigo referred to. Also, I think the communication in the criminal community is vastly overstated. There is a belief by many (especially young DAs) that the criminals are organized like a frat, where they meet regularly to discuss the overthrow of the homeowner. It is much more organic and disjointed than that. Bored teens and 20-somethings looking for something to do, or a little cash may come up with a scheme to break into neighbor's homes. Crackheads, while lighting a pipe, might tell each other where to find copper, or where the valuables are hidden in homes. But, it is not a professional development seminar. It is more like you and your neighbor making idle chat about the best way to get rid of crabgrass.

i agree with most of what your saying, red. however, since kuykendahl and gosling were completed through to sterling ridge and indian springs, and the woodlands parkway was opened up to 2978 between tomball and magnolia, it seems that crime has increased in the area. there are loads of trailer parks and low income areas across spring creek south of the newer neighborhoods. these "lower elements" are within five minutes, not forty-five minutes.

Edited by bachanon
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i agree with most of what your saying, red. however, since kuykendahl and gosling were completed through to sterling ridge and indian springs, and the woodlands parkway was opened up to 2978 between tomball and magnolia, it seems that crime has increased in the area. there are loads of trailer parks and low income areas across spring creek south of the newer neighborhoods. these "lower elements" are within five minutes, not forty-five minutes.

Not to mention all the yard crews, construction crews and cleaning crews have a pretty good working knowledge of homes/vehicles/daily routines/dogs or no dogs/etc. They talk to friends back in the "hood," which as bach said is literally only a few miles away.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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i didn't mean for the oberg piece to be of any info except to me that i'm so naive about certain things, like the info on alarms. the last captain at mykawa road i found to be eye opening about how bold they are. i don't think burglars are organized like a frat and target a specific homeowner (unless there's a nice car in the driveway perhaps) but i do believe they talk about areas where crime is easy.

Absolutely, they talk. The point I was making is that burglary is a part time job for the overwhelming majority of burglars. In our world, they would be considered amatuers. They are crackheads or bored youth first, burglars as an afterthought. The general perception of "cat burglars", or the silly alarm commercials that show a well prepared burglar, dressed as a deliveryman is such a minute percentage of the 25,000 burglaries committed in the City each year as to be laughable. This is why intelligent homeowners will protect against opportunists versus professionals. The opportunists are far more likely to hit your home, and the pro will get in anyway.

That was the point of Oberg's piece, and why it was much better than the typical Houston fluff piece. Oberg talked to typical burglars, the kind we are most likely to see. And, like so many other things, it is the simple things like barking dogs that are most effective.

EDIT: Again, bach, show me your evidence. I've never seen it. If what you say is true, then we should have seen sky high crime rates in Tomball prior to the Woodlands. I have never heard that, and I grew up in the Kuykendahl area.

Edited by RedScare
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The general perception of "cat burglars", or the silly alarm commercials that show a well prepared burglar, dressed as a deliveryman is such a minute percentage of the 25,000 burglaries committed in the City each year as to be laughable. This is why intelligent homeowners will protect against opportunists versus professionals. The opportunists are far more likely to hit your home, and the pro will get in anyway.

Say, isn't that about the same argument I was trying to make to you many months ago in an analysis of property crime patterns between urban and suburban locales?

Did I win? :huh: In an argument with Red? :blink::o

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Absolutely, they talk. The point I was making is that burglary is a part time job for the overwhelming majority of burglars. In our world, they would be considered amatuers. They are crackheads or bored youth first, burglars as an afterthought.

i would separate real burglars vs. crackheads or bored youth. i think the latter would tend to stay around their home while a real burglar would target more.

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Absolutely, they talk. The point I was making is that burglary is a part time job for the overwhelming majority of burglars. In our world, they would be considered amatuers. They are crackheads or bored youth first, burglars as an afterthought. The general perception of "cat burglars", or the silly alarm commercials that show a well prepared burglar, dressed as a deliveryman is such a minute percentage of the 25,000 burglaries committed in the City each year as to be laughable. This is why intelligent homeowners will protect against opportunists versus professionals. The opportunists are far more likely to hit your home, and the pro will get in anyway.

That was the point of Oberg's piece, and why it was much better than the typical Houston fluff piece. Oberg talked to typical burglars, the kind we are most likely to see. And, like so many other things, it is the simple things like barking dogs that are most effective.

EDIT: Again, bach, show me your evidence. I've never seen it. If what you say is true, then we should have seen sky high crime rates in Tomball prior to the Woodlands. I have never heard that, and I grew up in the Kuykendahl area.

i didn't claim to have evidence. i simply stated "it seems that crime has increased in the area".

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Say, isn't that about the same argument I was trying to make to you many months ago in an analysis of property crime patterns between urban and suburban locales?

Did I win? :huh: In an argument with Red? :blink::o

It is entirely possible that you tried to make this point months ago, but that in the mountain of verbiage spewing forth from your keyboard, the point was entirely trampled, never to be seen again.

If you are asking if I have stated something different than I did months ago, the answer is no.

musicamn, agreed as to the two groups. My point is that the real burglars are an extremely small group. I only recall dealing with one in my 20 years in this business. A guy I prosecuted in Fort Worth confessed to hundreds of burglaries across the entire country. He would move on frequently, so as to lessen his risk of capture. Pretty interesting dude, who would never waste his valuable time on your house or mine. He was after the BIG stuff.

On the other hand, I have dealt with so many punks and crackheads, I cannot remember the ones from last year alone.

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with nearly 30% of the woodlands population being minors, i'm not surprised when i hear stories like these. the new census estimates show that out of nearly 400k residents in montgomery county, over 100k are under 18. i don't know if this is true throughout the country. it seems excessive to me.

March 23, 2007, 12:56PM

Church hopes to stem spike in vandalism

Leaders want more patrols around nearby Woodlands park

By LAURA ISENSEE

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

After suffering nearly 20 incidents of vandalism in a span of three months, a church in the Panther Creek neighborhood is seeking help from park rangers in The Woodlands.

Since Dec. 28, 2006, Trinity Episcopal Church, 3901 S. Panther Creek Drive, has seen vandalism ranging from minor mischief to the criminal. Vandals have marked graffiti on walls, dumped motor oil on cars and caused $100,000 in damages to the sanctuary's air-conditioning system.

The church's junior warden Bill Merchant recently asked the Community Associations of The Woodlands to pay for undercover park ranger surveillance at the nearby Creekwood Park. The idea was one of several discussed at a recent community meeting the church held with local law enforcement agencies and the community associations.

"I think there's just a couple of bad apples," Merchant said.

The church feels that Creekwood Park, with a skate park and near McCullough Junior High, is a haven for culprits and possibly has drawn more mischief since the closing of other skate parks around The Woodlands, Merchant said.

While the church looks to stop the spike in vandalism, The Woodlands is working to fully launch its new community-oriented policing program sometime in May.

The new $2.4 million contract with the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department funds 30 deputies on patrol in five new beats in The Woodlands.

The final 10 deputies will be hired from outside local law enforcement agencies and are expected to be interviewed this week, said Lt. Andrew Eason of Montgomery County Sheriff's Department Precinct 2. Depending on the new recruits' experience, their training could take up to 13 weeks, he said.

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It is entirely possible that you tried to make this point months ago, but that in the mountain of verbiage spewing forth from your keyboard, the point was entirely trampled, never to be seen again.

If you are asking if I have stated something different than I did months ago, the answer is no.

As I recall, you were arguing that people are at least as at risk from crime in The Woodlands as in the Heights on account of there being lots of dead-end streets, wooded trails, and privacy fences that can hide the activities of burglars. I argued that those areas would be subject to planned crimes but that most criminals aren't that well organized and would strike opportunistically, with gridded streets and mixed demographics of the Heights contributing to a property crime rate that was likely higher.

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As I recall, you were arguing that people are at least as at risk from crime in The Woodlands as in the Heights on account of there being lots of dead-end streets, wooded trails, and privacy fences that can hide the activities of burglars. I argued that those areas would be subject to planned crimes but that most criminals aren't that well organized and would strike opportunistically, with gridded streets and mixed demographics of the Heights contributing to a property crime rate that was likely higher.

Architects of The Woodlands agreed with you. That is a primary reason of the convoluted streets design. It is so easy to get lost here. I still can get turned around in some places.

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Architects of The Woodlands agreed with you. That is a primary reason of the convoluted streets design. It is so easy to get lost here. I still can get turned around in some places.

So, you are agreeing that it is likely local thieves committing burglaries then, since non-locals would get lost? While I seriously doubt the Woodlands layout was done to foil non-local burglars (in fact, that has never been stated in any article I've ever read about it's street design), it would have been a colossal blunder for the architects to design a neighborhood that is safe from a small minority of criminals (non-locals) while making it more susceptible to the large majority of them (locals).

Nitche, you'll have to do better than a dim recollection for me to respond to your post. I remember the thread about fences providing cover for burglars, and cul-de-sacs and curved streets shielding burglars from nosy neighbors. However, I would never argue that the Heights has fewer burglaries than the Woodlands, or that a large number of burglaries are opportunistic. I WOULD argue that, all things being equal, gridded streets provide better visibility, and therefore better supervision by neighbors, than cul-de-sacs.

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Nitche, you'll have to do better than a dim recollection for me to respond to your post.

I'd post a link to the appropriate thread if I remembered which one it was.

I WOULD argue that, all things being equal, gridded streets provide better visibility, and therefore better supervision by neighbors, than cul-de-sacs.

Gridded streets are a double-edged sword, though. On the one hand, they provide greater visibility for non-criminals of possible criminal acts, but on the other hand, they also make prospective targets more visible to opportunistic criminals.

Gridded streets also give rise to more thru-traffic, and the neighbors will think less of the many unfamiliar vehicles passing by than they would if the streets were cul-de-sacs and traffic volume was light. I've toured many subdivisions for work and frequently get long dirty stares from people living on dead-end streets as I drive by and make the u-turn...I'll never get a dirty look like that from someone on a grid, even in as uppity a place as Bellaire.

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The church feels that Creekwood Park, with a skate park and near McCullough Junior High, is a haven for culprits and possibly has drawn more mischief since the closing of other skate parks around The Woodlands, Merchant said.

now they are blaming skaters too? this is something the city of houston did too. a few bad people give the whole group a bad name.

I'd post a link to the appropriate thread if I remembered which one it was.

Gridded streets are a double-edged sword, though. On the one hand, they provide greater visibility for non-criminals of possible criminal acts, but on the other hand, they also make prospective targets more visible to opportunistic criminals.

Gridded streets also give rise to more thru-traffic, and the neighbors will think less of the many unfamiliar vehicles passing by than they would if the streets were cul-de-sacs and traffic volume was light.

i'd have to agree here.

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I patially disagree, as I did before. BOTH types of streets are double-edged. Less visibility and less traffic gives more cover to the burglar. But, an alert neighbor who can see the traffic may be suspicious of an unfamiliar vehicle or pedestrian.

On the other hand, heavier traffic may cause less vigilance, but the heavier traffic is itself a deterrent, as the burglar prefers no one around. The same theory applies to parking lots, where one is advised to park near other vehicles, not in isolated areas, and studies also show that busier areas with pedestrian traffic are safer than more isolated ones. The studies I have seen all come to the conclusion that more visibility and heavier traffic is preferable to less when it comes to safety and burglary. It may seem counterintuitive, but it makes sense from the standpoint of a burglar preferring not to be seen.

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I patially disagree, as I did before. BOTH types of streets are double-edged. Less visibility and less traffic gives more cover to the burglar. But, an alert neighbor who can see the traffic may be suspicious of an unfamiliar vehicle or pedestrian.

On the other hand, heavier traffic may cause less vigilance, but the heavier traffic is itself a deterrent, as the burglar prefers no one around. The same theory applies to parking lots, where one is advised to park near other vehicles, not in isolated areas, and studies also show that busier areas with pedestrian traffic are safer than more isolated ones. The studies I have seen all come to the conclusion that more visibility and heavier traffic is preferable to less when it comes to safety and burglary. It may seem counterintuitive, but it makes sense from the standpoint of a burglar preferring not to be seen.

I agree with your reasoning, but if we remove that assumption that the burglar is acting rationally and intelligently (which is reasonable considering that smarter people tend to have better ways to come up with cash than to risk being sent to jail), then opportunism clearly becomes the dominant motivator. Grids are more conducive to opportunism, and so they are at higher risk to crime, all other factors being the same, IMO.

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  • The title was changed to Crime In The Woodlands To Decrease

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