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South's Biggest City Economy?


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Yeah...and according to them, Detroit's economy is going to grow at an average annual rate of 2.3% (or by 41% by 2020), the same forecasted rate as Chicago or Philly. :huh: Uh, no.

Btw, what was the point of the original post? <_<

Why does there have to be a point, Niche?

This is the Dallas/Ft.Worth section of HAIF, isn't it?

Just putting out an interesting tidbit of information about the subject area.

So, why does that annoy you?

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Why does there have to be a point, Niche?

This is the Dallas/Ft.Worth section of HAIF, isn't it?

Just putting out an interesting tidbit of information about the subject area.

So, why does that annoy you?

HAIF etiquette:

Bragging about Houston or the dissemination of any news that puts Houston in a positive light is encouraged.

Bragging about Dallas or the dissemination of any news that puts Dallas in a positive light is to be met with ridicule, scorn or suspicion.

Didn

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Oh please. I had to finish TexasStars' 1/2 arse attempt at making a post.

At least I provided the link the the actual story.

A picutre of a horse and a chart is a waste of bandwidth.

And it's not even according to the Economist. It's according to PwC.

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Why does there have to be a point, Niche?

Because you wouldn't post if you had no motivation to post.

So, why does that annoy you?

Because by saying "south's biggest city economy" in the title, you're making an explicit comparison between Dallas and other cities, and by posting it on the Houston-AIF, the target of the comparison is narrowed and presented to a Houston-dominant audience. That is cause enough for suspicion.

Considering that the information presented by PWC and The Economist is global in nature, with no particular focus on either Dallas or Houston, and that you focus your attention on these areas without adding anything whatsoever to the information, you refocus the meaning of the information. What would have belonged most in our "Rest of the World" subforum gets placed in the Dallas subforum. Given comparisons between Dallas and Houston are all too often made by certain Dallasites (yet strangely, by no residents of other cities) in an attempt to elicit a flamewar, I call your motives into question.

ATTENTION HAIFERS: Just say no to trolls.

...and that includes the pathetic question about whether Dallas and Fort Worth are one economic unit or not. Don't get into it. Don't feed them. They thrive on the response.

Edited by TheNiche
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Because you wouldn't post if you had no motivation to post.

Because by saying "south's biggest city economy" in the title, you're making an explicit comparison between Dallas and other cities, and by posting it on the Houston-AIF, the target of the comparison is narrowed and presented to a Houston-dominant audience. That is cause enough for suspicion.

Considering that the information presented by PWC and The Economist is global in nature, with no particular focus on either Dallas or Houston, and that you focus your attention on these areas without adding anything whatsoever to the information, you refocus the meaning of the information. What would have belonged most in our "Rest of the World" subforum gets placed in the Dallas subforum. Given comparisons between Dallas and Houston are all too often made by certain Dallasites (yet strangely, by no residents of other cities) in an attempt to elicit a flamewar, I call your motives into question.

ATTENTION HAIFERS: Just say no to trolls.

...and that includes the pathetic question about whether Dallas and Fort Worth are one economic unit or not. Don't get into it. Don't feed them. They thrive on the response.

This post had NOTHING to do with Houston. If you don't want to read any information about DALLAS/FT.WORTH in the Metroplex section of this board, then it's easy to avoid it.

Here's how. Where you see Dallas/Fort Worth/Metroplex, don't click that.

By the way, HAIF is not restricted to Houston residents. Everyone is allowed to join, read and post.

That makes me a HAIFER, genius. And I would be saying no to you.

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Hmmmm.... the south's largest metropolitan area has the south's largest economy. Go figure. Pretty much a dog-bites-man non-story.

Thanks for the link to the interesting stuff, Midtown. I'm curious, though, how Atlanta's economy counts up to a larger GDP than Houston's

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I think its dumb to always accuse someone of flaming just becuase they post some information about their city. Some people on this forum need to get off it! :wacko:

BTW, that is interesting how Atlanta's GDP is higher than Houston's and they aren't larger than Houston (YET). The chart did say that was just for 2005 though!

Edited by C2H
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Guys. Remember who we are dealing with. I have tried again and again, on this and other forums, to explain a concept I thought a 5th grader would understand. That is, that there is a city called Fort worth, and there is a city called Dallas. They are different cities. If you are in one, then by induction you are not in the other. Yet, there is this bizzare thing that people from Dallas do, which is to "pretend" that Fort Worth and Dallas are the same city. Everytime I would hear this, I was always tempted to hit my head, because it would hurt when I tried to apply logic here. So Dallas "claims" Fort Worth, much to the annoyance of our fellow Fort Worthians mind you, when Dallas wants to pretty themselves up and pretend they are more than they are. Yet, if you read the posts over in thier own forum, magically, they treat Fort Worth like a totally different city. You find posts that compare the two cities, and make very clear distinctions in thier conversation. So in short, Dallas will claim Fort Worth to the outside world simply to perform this magical "proping up" of thier stature to outsiders, yet treat F.W as an outsider within thier own community. But hey, maybe it's some kinda' new math or something. Heck, I dont know.

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I think its dumb to always accuse someone of flaming just becuase they post some information about their city. Some people on this forum need to get off it! :wacko:

the article appears to have numerous cities not just dallas. one would think it would be posted in the rest of the world section. there it would be benign.

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Remember one of the posts on "The Port of Dallas" thread, where a Dallas writer tries to say that when the (ahem) "Port of Dallas" is built, it will be:

"..as if the boats pull up to Houston, but the longshormen will be in Dallas"

That statement should paint a clear picture of the extent of how an imaginary image is more important to Dallas than reality. Why, in the name of Sam Houston, is it so important to "pretent" that there is a "Port" complete with "longhsoremen" in a city that is 250 miles away from a body of water? Is there an image Dallas is trying to paint about iteself that drives such a bizzare statement? It's a freak'n wierd!

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i wonder what the new york/new jersey metroplex gdp is, or how about the san antonio/austin metroplex. ;)

You need to check the list, because the New York/New Jersey metro IS on this list. It is number 2. It would be comparatively useless to rate just New York City itself, as its economy and business is closely tied to that of the metro's economy. Houston is no different, they add in all the suburbs of the entire metro, as they should.

Jason

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I think its dumb to always accuse someone of flaming just becuase they post some information about their city. Some people on this forum need to get off it! :wacko:

BTW, that is interesting how Atlanta's GDP is higher than Houston's and they aren't larger than Houston (YET). The chart did say that was just for 2005 though!

Atlanta is a powerhouse, I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020 they took off and had the largest GDP in the south.

Jason

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Atlanta is also the capital of Georgia and the main economic drive for Georgia. The Atlanta region is sprawling so much (more so than Houston if you don't look at how large the counties are), that now it is being called "North Georgia".

Houston is only one point, number, whatever behind Atlanta. This was in 2005, too.

Edited by Trae
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This post had NOTHING to do with Houston. If you don't want to read any information about DALLAS/FT.WORTH in the Metroplex section of this board, then it's easy to avoid it.

Here's how. Where you see Dallas/Fort Worth/Metroplex, don't click that.

By the way, HAIF is not restricted to Houston residents. Everyone is allowed to join, read and post.

That makes me a HAIFER, genius. And I would be saying no to you.

I'm currently counting a total of nine posts (not counting yours, mine, or my critics) on this thread that add nothing to HAIF or this discussion and that are basically flame-like. Whether it was your intention or not to flamebait, mission accomplished.

There have been useful comments, but that is because the data are truely interesting, not because it has anything to do with DFW in particular.

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Guys. Remember who we are dealing with. I have tried again and again, on this and other forums, to explain a concept I thought a 5th grader would understand. That is, that there is a city called Fort worth, and there is a city called Dallas. They are different cities. If you are in one, then by induction you are not in the other. Yet, there is this bizzare thing that people from Dallas do, which is to "pretend" that Fort Worth and Dallas are the same city. Everytime I would hear this, I was always tempted to hit my head, because it would hurt when I tried to apply logic here. So Dallas "claims" Fort Worth, much to the annoyance of our fellow Fort Worthians mind you, when Dallas wants to pretty themselves up and pretend they are more than they are. Yet, if you read the posts over in thier own forum, magically, they treat Fort Worth like a totally different city. You find posts that compare the two cities, and make very clear distinctions in thier conversation. So in short, Dallas will claim Fort Worth to the outside world simply to perform this magical "proping up" of thier stature to outsiders, yet treat F.W as an outsider within thier own community. But hey, maybe it's some kinda' new math or something. Heck, I dont know.

Everybody knows that Dallas and Ft. Worth are two different cities. But, they are in the SAME METRO. You may hate that, but that's the way it is.

In this case, when comparing GDP, I doubt the numbers mean much unless you measure it at the metro level.

And please stop hitting your head.

Remember, the damage to higher congnitive functions from concussions is cumulative.

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Funny, I published the exact same post at SkyscraperPage and SkyscraperCity and got some intelligent discourse on the list data.

Flame post count = zero.

(Which is what I would expect.)

You'll notice that neither of those sites is called Houston SkyscraperPage or Houston SkyscraperCity. Whether you do it intentionally or not, posting it on this forum with a heading such as yours sends a different message than if you post it on a more general architecture forum. ...and naturally, it will elicit a different kind of response.

Flame post count = nine.

(Which is what I would expect. Why didn't you?)

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You'll notice that neither of those sites is called Houston SkyscraperPage or Houston SkyscraperCity. Whether you do it intentionally or not, posting it on this forum with a heading such as yours sends a different message than if you post it on a more general architecture forum. ...and naturally, it will elicit a different kind of response.

Flame post count = nine.

(Which is what I would expect. Why didn't you?)

So you are saying that us troublemaking Dallasites know how to push Houstonian buttons? It's easy: Simply post a statistic/opinion that ranks Dallas or DFW ahead of Houston and watch the show.

I would suggest that you shouldn't be so easily manipulated, but I find myself being sucked into the moment as well. Dallasites and Houstonians are very passionate defenders of their cities.

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So you are saying that us troublemaking Dallasites know how to push Houstonian buttons? It's easy: Simply post a statistic/opinion that ranks Dallas or DFW ahead of Houston and watch the show.

DFW-ite since that is the city mentioned in the article.

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Funny, I published the exact same post at SkyscraperPage and SkyscraperCity and got some intelligent discourse on the list data.

Flame post count = zero.

(Which is what I would expect.)

Yo have gotten two replies in SSP with that thread (me with one of them). I agree with the responses at SSC, though. You need to look at CSA's, not MSA's with this type of stuff. A post from there:

http://usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0107/GMPreport.pdf

A much more accurate report can be read there for 2005, the newest data available from the US Economic Census.

Using the CSA definition, which is the only realistic way to measure a metro's economic size (since CSAs are designated by commuter patterns - or economic activity - to begin with), here are the top economies in the US in terms of gross metropolitan product:

1. New York City CSA: $1.103 T

2. Los Angeles/Long Beach/Riverside CSA: $770.6 B

3. Washington/Baltimore CSA: $436 B

4. Chicago CSA: $429.6 B

5. Boston/Providence CSA: $364.6 B

6. San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose CSA: $357.8 B

7. Philadelphia/Reading CSA: $286.1 B

8. Dallas/Fort Worth CSA: $284.5 B

9. Houston/Beaumont CSA: $244.4 B

10. Atlanta/Sandy Springs/Marietta MSA: $212.4 B

I think it's safe to assume that by 2007, Dallas/Forth Worth has surpassed Philly, but is still nowhere near SF and Boston.

And yes, BalWash, the GDP of metropolitan Osaka was $720 billion in 2006. Metro Osaka includes Kyoto; there is simply no way to exclude Kyoto, which is closer to Osaka than portions of suburban North Jersey are to NYC and has uncut Japanese-levels of urban density connecting connecting the two, from Osaka.

Tokyo's GDP is on the order of $1.7 trillion as well. Does anyone here honestly believe that metro Tokyo, with 35+ million people, has an economy less than 10% larger than that of metro New York, a place with over 10 million less people? This is Japan we are talking about, not China.

Also, the chart you posted TexasStar is a projected list for 2020.

Edited by Trae
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So you are saying that us troublemaking Dallasites know how to push Houstonian buttons? It's easy: Simply post a statistic/opinion that ranks Dallas or DFW ahead of Houston and watch the show.

I would suggest that you shouldn't be so easily manipulated, but I find myself being sucked into the moment as well. Dallasites and Houstonians are very passionate defenders of their cities.

Yep, it really is that easy, and no, I don't like it. That's why I tried to call out this thread from the start. It's interesting information, but the way that its presented, the general response will add nothing to the forum.

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can someone define "gross domestic product"? i read that the houston ship channel is responsible for 11 billion dollars in local economic impact. would that be included in houston's gdp? thanks in advance.

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GDP is the total value of all goods and services produced in any given year. The 11B from Houston's ship channel would definitely be counted. I'd be surprised if Houston didn't overtake Dallas and Atlanta because of the current energy boom. Actually, I'm surprised that Houston isn't higher and that Atlanta surpasses us.

Edited by SpaceCity
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Here's some info from the PWC research that sheds a little light on the results. At least it accounts for PART of the reason that Atlanta is shown with a larger GDP, even though it's a smaller city/metro:

The study analyzed something called "urban agglomerations" from the United Nations "World Urbanization Prospects". I could not find any more detail about exactly what is included in the various "urban agglomerations", but they do show that under this definition, Houston and Atlanta are almost exactly the same size (4.3 million), so I presume they have left out Galveston etc. DFW is shown with 4.65 million population. (These are the 2005 numbers)

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WAIT: Texas has several metro areas that are rocking' and rolling'... GA has one - Atlanta. whoohee. Texas has Houston, Dallas, Austin/SA and all that that implies. GA: be happy with your 1 metroplex-ette...TX is rockin' with many,,,,,,,,,,,,

Aus Sa HOU DFW 3rd Coast... and all.......

Edited by houstonfella
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Savannah has the second largest port on the East Coast.

That does it. I'm moving to Savannah. :lol::lol::lol:

Let's keep the Dallas vs. Houston competition going. I love it. Because, when all is said and done, and the stats are in in every category .... guess who's yo daddy? It ain't Dallas. :P

P.S. Texas is fortunate to have three or four huge metro areas that can kick other states' metro areas right out of the water. But Houston is on the water. We do have that on Dallas. Other than that, the cities are awesome mean metro machines.

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That does it. I'm moving to Savannah. :lol::lol::lol:

Let's keep the Dallas vs. Houston competition going. I love it. Because, when all is said and done, and the stats are in in every category .... guess who's yo daddy? It ain't Dallas. :P

P.S. Texas is fortunate to have three or four huge metro areas that can kick other states' metro areas right out of the water. But Houston is on the water. We do have that on Dallas. Other than that, the cities are awesome mean metro machines.

What water?

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So you are saying that us troublemaking Dallasites know how to push Houstonian buttons? It's easy: Simply post a statistic/opinion that ranks Dallas or DFW ahead of Houston and watch the show.

I would suggest that you shouldn't be so easily manipulated, but I find myself being sucked into the moment as well. Dallasites and Houstonians are very passionate defenders of their cities.

Ok, kiddoes. If I go and brag to my friends about how much more money I make than them or how my house is so much more expensive it just points out the sad obvious fact that I am a shallow, materialistic, little, insecure person who places too much importance on external things. But since I am not that person, I don't do those things. I don't think we are those kinds of people on this forum either. So please, let's get back to meaningful discussions. Houston and Dallas have a lot going for them so let's leave it at that.

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Ok, kiddoes. If I go and brag to my friends about how much more money I make than them or how my house is so much more expensive it just points out the sad obvious fact that I am a shallow, materialistic, little, insecure person who places too much importance on external things. But since I am not that person, I don't do those things. I don't think we are those kinds of people on this forum either. So please, let's get back to meaningful discussions. Houston and Dallas have a lot going for them so let's leave it at that.

Ditto. See post #10. The prophecy has been fulfilled.

Just say no to trolls.

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You know what water Dallasboi. If you can claim Ft Worth, we can sure as hell can claim Galveston.

Well....as long as you already know that it's rediculous to say ....then its okay wit me....The reason I said "what water" is because if someone went to houston looking for a city on the water...they wouldn't find it.Just like you guys say we shouldn't say we have a port because ther is no water involved........Don't get me wrong, there is a body of water somewhere downthere....but it's nowhere near downtown,or better yet...nowhere in the city limits..........but feel free to correct me. :mellow:

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Well....as long as you already know that it's rediculous to say ....then its okay wit me....The reason I said "what water" is because if someone went to houston looking for a city on the water...they wouldn't find it.Just like you guys say we shouldn't say we have a port because ther is no water involved........Don't get me wrong, there is a body of water somewhere downthere....but it's nowhere near downtown,or better yet...nowhere in the city limits..........but feel free to correct me. :mellow:

[/quote

It's only as rediculous as you claiming Ft Worth as a Dallasite. Secondly, there is bay water all around South and East Houston. Get to know the city a little better before espousing your sarcasm.

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If I gave you an affirmative answer, you'd only argue it and thrive on the conflict.

...so no, I'm not. :rolleyes:

Then why bring up the troll comment in the first place; or as you put it so well, "Btw, what was the point of the original post?" If you intend to call out a troll, don't be a coward, stand by your words and finish what you start.

You made another comment that seemed odd, but perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

Given comparisons between Dallas and Houston are all too often made by certain Dallasites (yet strangely, by no residents of other cities) in an attempt to elicit a flamewar, I call your motives into question.

Certainly you aren't suggesting that Dallasites are the ONLY HAIFers on this board making comparisons between Dallas and Houston. Seems to me Houstonians have more to gain by making direct comparisons. Why would Dallasites try to compare D to H when by almost every statistical measure, if only through its own bulk, H is bigger, fatter, louder, taller, etc.? Of course, if we are talking metros, such as the original post, then the debate is more evenly matched.

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I don't know how many times we have to repeat this. Apparently the warning banner at the top of the page isn't clear enough.

We do not want to host Houston-vs-Dallas flame wars on this board. They don't belong on HAIF. If that is your main interest, then you are in the wrong place.

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