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Big 12 Basketball Tourney


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The conference is grossly overrated by the polls. The RPI reflects the true "power" of the Big 12.

Kansas lost at home to Oral Roberts and on the road to DePaul. ATM lost to the worst team in the SEC.

That said, in the end, both will get two seeds and win easy first round games and then get the 7-10 matchup where they will have a solid shot at the Sweet Sixteen. It's how the money conferences work the system and keep the money.

It'll be funny to see if the NCAA rewards teams who play quality out of conference games or if the Big Conferences will dominate the invites and seedings per usual.

here are some bubble teams and how they matchup in their OOC resumes- (quality wins are top 50 RPI wins)

Southern Cal- zero quality wins out of conference

Illinois- only "quality win came against the 4th place team from the Missouri Valley at home

Michigan- only quality win at home against #50 Davidson

Virginia Tech- only quality win at home against Old Dominion

Villanova- only quality win against Texas and finished NINTH in the Big East

Syracuse- zero quality wins

Vanderbilt- only quality win at home against Georgia Tech

Alabama- only quality win against Xavier

Ole Miss- zero quality wins

Texas- zero quality wins

Texas Tech- zero quality wins

Kansas State- zero quality wins

Now, look at the "mid-majors" on the bubble

Missouri State- beat Wisconsin in South Padre Island Tourney

Southern Illinois- beat Virginia Tech on a neutral court and won at Butler

Appalachian State- beat Virginia and Vanderbilt on a neutral court and won at VCU

Air Force- beat Texas Tech on a neutral court and won at Stanford

UNLV- won at Texas Tech and at Nevada

Butler- beat Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, and Tennessee on neutral courts

Xavier- beat Villanova, Illinois, and Kansas State on neutral courts

Old Dominion- won at Georgetown

Drexel- won road games at Villanova, Syracuse, and Creighton!

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The conference is grossly overrated by the polls. The RPI reflects the true "power" of the Big 12.

Kansas lost at home to Oral Roberts and on the road to DePaul. ATM lost to the worst team in the SEC.

That said, in the end, both will get two seeds and win easy first round games and then get the 7-10 matchup where they will have a solid shot at the Sweet Sixteen. It's how the money conferences work the system and keep the money.

It'll be funny to see if the NCAA rewards teams who play quality out of conference games or if the Big Conferences will dominate the invites and seedings per usual.

here are some bubble teams and how they matchup in their OOC resumes- (quality wins are top 50 RPI wins)

Southern Cal- zero quality wins out of conference

Illinois- only "quality win came against the 4th place team from the Missouri Valley at home

Michigan- only quality win at home against #50 Davidson

Virginia Tech- only quality win at home against Old Dominion

Villanova- only quality win against Texas and finished NINTH in the Big East

Syracuse- zero quality wins

Vanderbilt- only quality win at home against Georgia Tech

Alabama- only quality win against Xavier

Ole Miss- zero quality wins

Texas- zero quality wins

Texas Tech- zero quality wins

Kansas State- zero quality wins

Now, look at the "mid-majors" on the bubble

Missouri State- beat Wisconsin in South Padre Island Tourney

Southern Illinois- beat Virginia Tech on a neutral court and won at Butler

Appalachian State- beat Virginia and Vanderbilt on a neutral court and won at VCU

Air Force- beat Texas Tech on a neutral court and won at Stanford

UNLV- won at Texas Tech and at Nevada

Butler- beat Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, and Tennessee on neutral courts

Xavier- beat Villanova, Illinois, and Kansas State on neutral courts

Old Dominion- won at Georgetown

Drexel- won road games at Villanova, Syracuse, and Creighton!

I'd stack up the top 3 in the Big 12 against any conference in the country. You don't get a better top 3 anywhere. After that there is a sharp drop in quality which is why K State and Tech are teams that still have something to prove. If we get 5 teams in we'll be fortunate.

As for your "bubble" analysis, I hate to tell you but Texas, Southern Illinois, Butler, and UNLV are not "on the bubble." They are all top 25 teams. I would also go so far as to say that Vanderbilt, Xavier, USC, V Tech, Tennessee, and Air Force though unranked, are not "bubble" teams either.

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You'd stack the top 3 of the Big 12 against the top 3 of any league in the country? Are you serious?

Here's how the top 3 from the best 8 leagues fared in OOC play against RPI top 100 teams by winning percentage

1) Pac Ten .833

2) ACC .750

2) Mountain West .750

4) SEC .636

5) Big Ten .571

6) Big 12 .529

7) Missouri Valley .474

8) Big East .471

Here's how they fared versus rpi top 50 teams

1) Pac Ten .800

2) ACC .777

3) Missouri Valley .571

4) Big Ten .455

5) Mountain West .430

6) SEC .429

6) Big 12 .429

8) Big East .250

I'd clearly take the Pac Ten's best (UCLA, Washington State, and Arizona), the ACC's best (North Carolina, Viginia, and Maryland), The Big Ten's best (Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Indiana), the SEC's best (Florida, Tennessee, and Kentucky), and based on the results of the season, even the Mountain West's best (UNLV, Air Force, and BYU) and the Missouri Valley's best (Southern Illinois, Creighton, and Missouri State).

The only conference that the Big 12's top 3 is clearly better than is the Big East (the media darlings who will garner multiple bids just for being in the East)

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You'd stack the top 3 of the Big 12 against the top 3 of any league in the country? Are you serious?

Here's how the top 3 from the best 8 leagues fared in OOC play against RPI top 100 teams by winning percentage

1) Pac Ten .833

2) ACC .750

2) Mountain West .750

4) SEC .636

5) Big Ten .571

6) Big 12 .529

7) Missouri Valley .474

8) Big East .471

Here's how they fared versus rpi top 50 teams

1) Pac Ten .800

2) ACC .777

3) Missouri Valley .571

4) Big Ten .455

5) Mountain West .430

6) SEC .429

6) Big 12 .429

8) Big East .250

I'd clearly take the Pac Ten's best (UCLA, Washington State, and Arizona), the ACC's best (North Carolina, Viginia, and Maryland), The Big Ten's best (Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Indiana), the SEC's best (Florida, Tennessee, and Kentucky), and based on the results of the season, even the Mountain West's best (UNLV, Air Force, and BYU) and the Missouri Valley's best (Southern Illinois, Creighton, and Missouri State).

The only conference that the Big 12's top 3 is clearly better than is the Big East (the media darlings who will garner multiple bids just for being in the East)

Absolutely, the Big 12's top 3 over any of the other leagues on a neutral floor. Print it!

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And this is why we play the tournament..

The Big XII will have a No.1 seed in Kansas, a 2 seed in the Aggies, and a 3 or 4 seed in Texas.. I think the chances of at least one of them making it to the Final 4 is pretty damn good.

Who do y'all see in in the big Xii tourny championship game ?

Kansas vs Aggies or Kansas vs t.u.

Gig'em Ags

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Kansas doesn't deserve a #1 seed.

They lost a home game to Oral Roberts. They lost on the road to a Big East also-ran (DePaul). KU is just 3-2 against the RPI top 50. The Jayhawks are just #15 in the RPI because they have fewer quality wins (3) than the following;

UCLA (9), and Arizona (5) from the Pac Ten

Ohio State (8), Wisconsin (7), Michigan State (6) from the Big Ten

Georgetown (6) and Villanova (4) from the Big East

Southern Illinois (8) and Creighton (7) from the Missouri Valley

Tennessee (7), Florida (7) and Kentucky (4) from the SEC

UNLV (4) from the Mountain West

They have the same # of quality wins as Pittsburgh, Missouri State, and BYU.

The Aggies are even worse, going just 2-4 against the RPI Top 50. The Aggies need to boost their OOC schedule now that they are a power team. Playing so many scrubs at home should keep the Aggies out of a top 2 seed but due to the influence of the Big 12, they'll likely get a #2 seed.

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Kansas doesn't deserve a #1 seed.

They lost a home game to Oral Roberts. They lost on the road to a Big East also-ran (DePaul). KU is just 3-2 against the RPI top 50. The Jayhawks are just #15 in the RPI because they have fewer quality wins (3) than the following;

UCLA (9), and Arizona (5) from the Pac Ten

Ohio State (8), Wisconsin (7), Michigan State (6) from the Big Ten

Georgetown (6) and Villanova (4) from the Big East

Southern Illinois (8) and Creighton (7) from the Missouri Valley

Tennessee (7), Florida (7) and Kentucky (4) from the SEC

UNLV (4) from the Mountain West

They have the same # of quality wins as Pittsburgh, Missouri State, and BYU.

The Aggies are even worse, going just 2-4 against the RPI Top 50. The Aggies need to boost their OOC schedule now that they are a power team. Playing so many scrubs at home should keep the Aggies out of a top 2 seed but due to the influence of the Big 12, they'll likely get a #2 seed.

I think team's OOC schedule has little to do with their eventual seeding in the field of 64. You're complaining about the Jayhawk and Aggie OOC yet they'll be seeded #1 and #2 respectively. I think that shows that OOC has little significance once conference play begins.

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The Aggies need to boost their OOC schedule now that they are a power team. Playing so many scrubs at home should keep the Aggies out of a top 2 seed but due to the influence of the Big 12, they'll likely get a #2 seed.

LSU and UCLA were both top 10 teams at the time we played them. It's not like we scheduled all scrubs.

Plus, Gillepsie isn't shy about admitting we had soft OOC schedules the past few years... it was part of his plan to reverse the direction of a perrennal loser on the court.. and it worked. The Aggies have nothing to ba ashamed of in how they went about turning things around.

I'm sure tougher and tougher opponents will be scheduled, but LSU had a tough season and didnt live up to expectations and yes plays in a tougher conference.... but they were a top 10 team before taking a nose-dive.

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If KU lands a #1 seed and ATM a #2 seed, then the NCAA should just stop pretending to be a "fair" organization based upon the spirit of competition. They might as well make the NCAA Tourney into a version of the football BCS.

Kansas is NOT a #1 caliber team. They are #15 in the RPI. They have THREE wins over top 50 rpi programs. That's fewer than North Carolina, UCLA, Duke, Maryland, Ohio State, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Wisconsin, CREIGHTON, Tennessee, Florida, Boston College, Michigan State, Georgetown, Marquette, Clemson, Vanderbilt, Arizona, Indiana, Oregon, Notre Dame, Michigan, Stanford, Auburn, Villanova, Kenutcky, UNLV, BUTLER, OLD DOMINION, Texas Tech, Texas, Purdue, Iowa, Florida State, Arkansas, USC, Oklahoma State, APPALACHIAN STATE, DePaul, NORTHERN IOWA, and Wake Forest. That's 43 teams. They have the same # of top 50 rpi wins as teams like Missouri State, Virginia Commonwealth, BYU, San Diego State, Ole Miss, Hofstra, and NC State!

What's worse, ATM's TWO top 50 rpi wins. FIFTY EIGHT teams have won more than the Aggies. Other teams that managed to win twice against top 50 competition? Drexel, Bradley, Gonzaga, Winthrop, Providence, Dayton, St. Louis, Nebraska, Wichita State, and South Carolina.

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If KU lands a #1 seed and ATM a #2 seed, then the NCAA should just stop pretending to be a "fair" organization based upon the spirit of competition. They might as well make the NCAA Tourney into a version of the football BCS.

Kansas is NOT a #1 caliber team. They are #15 in the RPI. They have THREE wins over top 50 rpi programs. That's fewer than North Carolina, UCLA, Duke, Maryland, Ohio State, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Wisconsin, CREIGHTON, Tennessee, Florida, Boston College, Michigan State, Georgetown, Marquette, Clemson, Vanderbilt, Arizona, Indiana, Oregon, Notre Dame, Michigan, Stanford, Auburn, Villanova, Kenutcky, UNLV, BUTLER, OLD DOMINION, Texas Tech, Texas, Purdue, Iowa, Florida State, Arkansas, USC, Oklahoma State, APPALACHIAN STATE, DePaul, NORTHERN IOWA, and Wake Forest. That's 43 teams. They have the same # of top 50 rpi wins as teams like Missouri State, Virginia Commonwealth, BYU, San Diego State, Ole Miss, Hofstra, and NC State!

What's worse, ATM's TWO top 50 rpi wins. FIFTY EIGHT teams have won more than the Aggies. Other teams that managed to win twice against top 50 competition? Drexel, Bradley, Gonzaga, Winthrop, Providence, Dayton, St. Louis, Nebraska, Wichita State, and South Carolina.

I guess we'll find out who's right on the hardcourt. You sure are anti Big 12 though. Where did you go to school?

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A small D-III college in Upstate/Western New York.

I am not necessarily anti-Big 12. But, I do hate the direction that college athletics has veered. I hate that Big Money Schools and Big Money Conferences have all the power.

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What were you saying about Air Force not being on the bubble?

I cannot believe the NCAA skipped over Air Force (rated #30) in the RPI to invite Texas Tech (#53 int he RPI) and Stanford (#63 in the RPI). Air Force played both teams this year. They won by FOURTEEN over Tech in Kansas City and they won AT Stanford by THIRTY-FIVE points.

Also, for anyone who even begins to think that the Six BCS leagues don't officially control the NCAA Hoops Tourney, look at these facts;

1) Only 4 teams that finished the year in the RPI top 40 failed to receive an invite to the Dance. All 4 teams had one thing in common; they aren't members of a BCS league. Air Force, Missouri State, Bradley, and Drexel all got the shaft.

2) Only 4 teams rated lower than #50 in the RPI received at large bids. All 4 teams had one thing in common; they are members of a BCS league. Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Virginia, and Stanford got invited despite having very weak resumes.

3) TWENTY EIGHT of the 34 at-large bids went to teams from the Pac Ten, ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10, or SEC.

4) Despite having so few non-BCS members, the NCAA Tourney Committee managed to feature 3 first round match ups in which the mid-majors will have to play each other instead of getting a shot at a BCS Team. They had to have gone out of their way to make that happen.

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