worldlyman

Completely agree, from 2001-2005 was just a rush of people new to the downtown area. That fad died and now we are seeing more stable business downtown. I've noticed the same, downtown from Thurs to Sunday seems pretty packed with activity. It's becoming more of a family environment not just a bunch of short lived clubs and party goers like back in 2004. The past 15yrs the city has pumped $3 billion in infrastructure and they plan on adding another $4 billion in the next 10 years to continue to draw the amenities needed to have a stable neighborhood. I really see downtown beginning to boom in the next 5 yrs.

Yeah, one of those nights I actually saw a mom pushing a baby stroller. And with the addition of Discovery Green, short of being a full blown mixed use/residential area, downtown is actually a viable entertainment/leisure option. Wouldn't it be great if those funky and hot retailers set up on Main St? That would be a great, great thing.

As it is, it might be Houston's destiny that the funky and hot retailers are meant for the Heights, Montrose, Midtown, Washington Ave and the Galleria. Perhaps downtown, aside from the business aspect, will always be our high cultural activity hub, nice large public park, and one bar/nightlife district among Houston's others.

I guess we could strive for better but downtown Houston 2012 is certainly far better than downtown Houston 1993 or such. Yes, I feel could that there could be a shot of positivity for the next five years downtown.

You take bad news pretty well, i must say.

I'm sorry to be a debbie downer, but this doesn't pose as any good coming out for downtown. Just think how Main Street square (or what used to be) has completely gone black at night. Pretty much void of any nightlife whatsoever. Driving through downtown at night looking for the blocks of activity it once literally brings a tear to my eye.

I really had high hopes for downtown when i moved here just under ten years ago. I thought after all the additions downtown has added over the last few years, it would add to what was already there. With all these closings, it takes something away and it almost seems like downtown is having to start all over again from scratch. The nightlife has almost gone non-existant and is more scattered around which takes away from the vibrancy of it. Main Street Square 2004/2005ish and even through part of 2006 seemed to be a little glimmer of hope that downtown was on the rise as an entertainment area.

Oh well, i'm going to end my rant by saying that maybe i'm ignorant to all the things that may be moving forward. I don't frequent downtown as much as I used to, but the few nights that I've gone was dissapointing to say the least.

I've been going downtown the past few Friday/Saturday nights now and it's still reasonably busy. It isn't 2000-2004 mass peak but there's still a lot of activity there. It has more of a busy neighborhood nightlife vibe as opposed to the 6th St or Bourbon St. carnival crowd it used to have...and it's still OK with me.

I still saw a lot of people packed in at No-Tsu-Oh, Flying Saucer, Minuti's Coffee, Molly's and such. And the attraction of downtown for me isn't just Main St. I like what I see over in front of Jones Plaza/Bayou Place and on Caroline St. across from Houston Pavilions. People were walking down Travis to Frank's Pizza and Pepper Jacks past midnight. Lots of people sitting in the patio of Sambuca.

Houston's nightlife areas are fairly plenty now, with other areas and districts competing with downtown. That being said, downtown Houston is still a good nocturnal entertainment destination among so many that we have in the area.

It could be much worse. I know and remember what downtown Houston in the 80s and early 90s was like on a weekend night. Now that was truly dead.

I'm glad it's coming back. It is nice to have another entertainment option here, grand illusions and such. The location is rather difficult though, given how the SW Fwy has become.

How do people feel about Fuzzy's? It's my personal favorite, although I've only had the one in Katy so I'm not sure how that compares with the other locations. I would imagine they are pretty similar though.

Star, Barry's and Candelari's are all very good...but I LOVE Fuzzy's on Fondren/Westheimer! Deep dish.

Downtown is still a very handy urban resource to me. I sometimes take a long break from my job at the Med. Center on a Saturday night and downtown is still going on. It's not as hot as it was circa 1999-2001 but it's alive and well-used. There are still bars and clubs, with a decent flow of pedestrians from Houston Pavilions to Market Square to Bayou Place. There's not an insane crowd of people like you see in tighter, denser metros...but to see a lot of people going from place to place in downtown H-town is still good to see and enjoy. I like grabbing a slice from Frank's Pizza or sipping a blackberry iced mocha at Minuti Coffee's patio or grabbing something at no-tsu-oh. It's a mix of people, and the blacks, whites and Latinos who frequent downtown on Saturday nights seem to enjoy it without much tension. I don't sense tension there on a Saturday night, generally. But the Asian crowds of early 2K seem to have gone elsewhere for nightlife.

Sometimes on my Mondays off, I like doing tunnel walks. Again, considering Houston has many other different geographic points of commerce, there are people that still walk around downtown. It's not crowded but there are still people. I like walking down Main on a pleasant Monday afternoon. Then after burning some calories, go walk the tunnels and then wind up at Doozo's at Houston Center for their addicting dumplings.

And it's nice to enjoy a quiet day at Discovery Green with the wife...with the breeze on Monday. It's actually pleasant that it's not overrun by tourists. Let them have Kemah...or the future Earthquest for that. But when I want a busier Discovery Green, I'll just come back on the weekends.

For me, I've stopped seeing one particular point of Houston as an end-all, all-or-nothing topic that some other people do. There could be some improvements and additions, to be sure, but I've pretty much stopped comparing our downtown to that of others. I mean, does traditionally urban Chicago have these unique entertaining little side streets like Fairview or White Oak that have a semi-rustic flair (but still with urban context)? That's what I like about Houston. I can enjoy these knick-knacks here in H-town. On my Saturday breaks...I can take the METRORAIL down to downtown for some late night pizza OR get in my car and drive over to Onion Creek or 6th Bar or some place on Victorian, semi-rustic White Oak for a "Bad Ass Hot Dog" or a burger. On Saturday nights, it's cool to see people walk from place to place there in that Studewood/White Oak corner. You can have that funky Victorian bar crawl...or you can have that urban flair of downtown on a Saturday night, among many other environments we have in H-town. Heck, I even like sitting at the patio of Cafe Europe on Fountainview@Westheimer and watching people walk among the sidewalks in that shopping center from Taiko to Kentucky Club to Darband Grill...enjoying that Houston style urbanity.

But as it is, downtown still happens for me. The maturation and settling of it hopefully will continue. It's MUCH better than what I saw in the mid-90s, for sure.

Here's a link to some classic Westbury Square pics if it's not been posted yet:

http://transportbox.blogspot.com/2009/06/june-10-2009-houston-westbury-square.html

I used to live on Benning St. off of S. Post Oak back in 1988. Totally 1988, from January to November.

There was a comic book shop in Westbury Square where I used to get my fix of New Teen Titans, Justice League of America, Avengers and back issues of Miracle Man that year. The guys who ran it seemed to get familiar with me for a short while though I don't remember their faces anymore. They pretty much knew what I wanted when I came in.

That was a very interesting set-up that I recall of Westbury Square but it felt so abandoned. It's a shame that it couldn't be re-habbed.

did that place have restaurants and other attractions like House of Blues or a bowling alley? You just named retail stores so I'm just wondering.

Horton Plaza has a movie theater and a decent food court on the upper level. But really no great restaurants or clubs. It is however positioned nicely to the Gas Lamp district.

I lived in the Gas Lamp for five months.

Horton Plaza's a neat assymetrical mall. San Diego's downtown is surely more developed but the finished productl is way too Disney. It lacks a sophistication, it's the sort of thing you pin down when there. Downtown Houston still has more potential. As it is now, downtown Houston still feels more exciting in a raw way. I took the trolley from the Med Center on break, long break, and what I like is that downtown H-town is not Disneyesque or whitebread like the Gas Lamp.

I work in the Med Center and I wished that food court had dinner hours for us who work later shifts! Ben Taub's cafeteria is really bad, and the adjacent Mickey D's doesn't help either. Some of my lovely coworkers actually walk next door to Memorial Hermann just to eat!

You ought to try and park at the Ben Taub Garage across the street on Taub Loop, but some people have the same idea.

It's easier to find parking off of Holman/Travis or Holman/San Jacinto's side streets and then use the HCC/Ensemble rail station.

I attend HCC and work at the Taub...it's not too bad.

Eh? HP is disappointing because it's an ugly, empty mall. I've been to lots of malls, all over the world. HP is one of the ugliest, and the only one I've ever seen open with only 4 stores tenants. I'd bet there are fewer than 100 Houstonians craving those words you wrote.

This place is just like starting, y'know. Houston Pavilions seems like a cool place, interesting OPEN design that is opposite of the Galleria, close to the downtown action.

I've been to some beautiful malls in Asia, been down the Stroget in Copenhagen, and I've appreciated the unique Horton Plaza in San Diego when I lived in that city...but there's nothing all that wrong with HP except the circular rings with their unsafe-height rails. Is it because it's in Houston that it's "an ugly. empty mall," especially when it's NOT EVEN FINISHED yet? I notice that negativity phenomemon...just because something's in Houston, it's ugly or uncool or this or that.

Just the whole set-up of Houston Pavilions to Main Street Square relative to the rest of downtown...that whole thing when I walked there after work last Friday night...seems a lot more edgy, untamed and YET HONESTLY more urbane than doing the Hollywood&Highland (and that Walk of Fame crap), more so than the Century City Shopping Center and quite more so than Beverly Center/Beverly Connection.

Houston Pavilion just adds texture to downtown. The large cultural/performance buildings, the bayou walk, the Main Street action, the skyscrapers...that nouveaux urban vibe in a Sunbelt context, it's here in H-town, not Hollywood.

I love L.A. but it seems played out...the influx of new developments happening in Houston just seems much more delicious.

My wife and I went milling about Houston Pavilions last Saturday. I thought that McCormick & Schmicks might be open.

But the feel and look of the place EXCEEDS what I saw in the renderings. It is a fantastic design. It's certainly different. Just like Horton Plaza in San Diego is different...Houston Pavilions is different. The view of the skycrapers is astounding.

I just can't wait for more shops to open there...getting more customers. There were some people at Books A Million that night.

My complaint is that the guard rails around the cross rings could be higher. It is so easy just to jump down on San Jac or Fannin from that...or be pushed over.

And parking could be at least 3 bucks instead of the 5 we paid that night. I personally don't mind paying 5...but I just want added incentive for more patronizing.

Houston Pavilions is the kind of place that can really attract regularly...I just can't get over how cool that design is.

Has anyone tried walking there from the Pavilions to about Main @ Capitol (or close to Sambuca)? What's the distance like? I know I could look that up on a map or something but would still want to know how someone else finds a stroll like that.

I wanted to stroll that but my wife was heavily disappointed that McCormick & Schmicks was not open and she was hungry (wound up going to La Strada in Montrose).

I rarely drive through Uptown Park.

But though my wife and I generally dislike Starbucks...I was in the mood to go last Friday evening post-Ike...and she was not.

Anyway, as we drove through, Uptown Park looked like a happening little city! Cafe Express to Uptown Sushi...it was just happening all over the place! People were walking all over, spilled out the doorways and hanging out al-fresco.

Was it just a post-Ike phenomenon or is it really typically that crowded on a Friday/Saturday evening at around 10:40 pm?

The two times I've walked around Rodeo Drive on a Friday night at about the same time...it never gets that high energy. Maybe the layout of Uptown Park lends itself that way.

Has Uptown Park become or been something of an entertainment hub?

Downtown Los Angeles.

I used to spend quite a bit of my time going to the Central L.A. Library on some weekdays.

Broadway in downtown is quite a terrific urban vista where those pics were taken. As someone said, you can definitely tell that the ship has definitely sailed away when it comes to "reviving" or "gentrifying" downtown. That part of downtown L.A. is most definitely a crowded shopping mecca for the poor, mostly Latino during the day. BUT...when the sun goes down (or after it's time to leave the library)...downtown Los Angeles shuts down. Better get to your car, buddy, before you lose sight of your own shadow!

Other parts of downtown L.A. that are new such as the Grand Ave area...are ironically terminally sterile with skinny sidewalks! Ain't that something.

I do enjoy downtown L.A.'s old Chinatown. It's not too bustling but it's still active enough for an urban excursion or meal. And it's not too scary in the daytime at all.

However...

I like downtown Houston the way it mixes the new with the old. Perhaps noticeably reliable commercial pedestrian activity will be more substantial as the Houston Pavilions is completed and humming.

Downtown Houston's weekend nightlife has stabilized. It's not the super crowded sidewalk club chic of 1998-2004 but rather a more casual place that offers a mix of bars, lounges and restaurants and a few clubs.

Other than the Trans America building, I can't see anything so special about SF's skyline. Flat roof city! (by law no less) And what's so special about Seattle's? (other than that fantastic Space Needle and new football stadium, of course)

There is the inferiority complex thing. Stuff that's constructed in San Francisco or Seattle are construed as automatically better than what's in Houston. Personally, I think San Fran's skyline is just an overgrown version of Ft Worth's, plus a nice pyramid. Seattle, I don't get either. I've never seen an angle of the Emerald City's that compares to H-town's skyline views going down south on 45 or from the up ramp coming from 288 on to 59 South. Those are nice skylines but they don't look as sharp or striking as Houston's.

My wife and I had dinner at the Spindletop while I was in Houston July 28-30, 2007.

Houston is such an ever-evolving place, and that's what makes it so wonderful.

Downtown is certainly not the hot nocturnal region of 1999-2001 that it once was with Prague, Jones Bar and all that other s--t; it's not even the place it was in 2004...but it was pretty damn busy when we drove around down Travis and back out Main. Interesting how they don't close off Main on weekend nights anymore.

The demographics have changed. That's for sure. But it was FAR from dead on a Saturday night.

It reminds me of Shepherd Plaza when upscale whitebread nightlife went downtown in 1998 and the replacement clientele were Afrian-American. Hell, even though the demographic changed, I still chilled and drank margaritas at Cabos with all the black folks. So freaking what?

I say let taste and attention-span determine what clubs stay open on Main Street. There were still people of other color, including some Caucasians, wandering about going to places like Sambuca. I guess some people scream panic when black folks dominate an entertainment area.

At some low-grade country and western dives I've been to, there were certainly a few trouble makers but most were there to have fun. Likewise, there are certainly trouble makers in downtown Houston but most are there to have fun. That's what I sensed in my excursion in downtown Houston one night in July 29, 2007. But let's get real, those environments will always have an element of danger, no matter how touristy or "upscale." I remember an anecdote how a guy got mugged really bad at whitebread GasLamp in San Diego back in 2003!

Good ol' Sunset Strip is still whitebread yet LA is supposed to be "hip" and most socially advanced or something. Going back to the Roaring 20s then onto the days of Motley Crue and the current celebrity fluff of today...the Sunset Strip is as predominantly whitebread as it gets (as I've noticed from my favorite perch at the Hollywood Hustler taking it in). Will the 'Strip in Hollywood ever cater to a predominantly Latino and African-American clientele the way nocturnal downtown Houston currently does when it once catered to mostly Caucasian Hollywood/South Beach- style crowds? In a supposedly unhip city like Houston, scenes shift faster than the Texas weather patterns. Interesting contrast.

The Midtown Houston scene is burgeoning, new bars and clubs with the birthday wrapping still on...yeah, demographics change. The crowds that probably once did Mint, Prague, Spy, Jones and the like back in the day probably settled on latter day home entertainment systems or laid back wine bars or Sam's Boat in Sugarland. But that's where the new scene is apparently. But Houston seemed to be full action...downtown, Midtown through to Montrose and the Village...

It will be interesting to see what the Houston Pavilions will bring to downtown.

Galveston is just a neat spot to me. Not just a beach.

Bingo!

I live here in Clearwater, Florida now...beautiful beaches abound in the area for sure. But not one of them is a replacement for funky, eccentric and myriad GALVESTON!

Iron front Strand with its funky and cool shops and coffee houses. Seawolf park. Asian tourists riding tandem bikes. Low-income families fishing off some of the hotel piers. Wind and roller-bladers along an unimpeded and majestic Sea Wall vista. The pedestrian traffic all over especially at the point near a fave restaurant called Fishtails.

Galveston is touristy, industrial, port, tacky, quaint, fun, dirty, pretty, the 'hood, odd downtownish, and haunted ALL AT ONCE. It is a lovely and lively stew that greets you with the view of the Moody Gardens and Village of Tiki Island!

I don't see that here in Vanilla West Coast Florida, so resplendent with "beautiful" beaches. I think St. Pete Beach is kinda cool and all that but...(I mean, where the hell do you find a haunted, Victorian restaurant like Luigi's in Clearwater, Dunedin or Indian Rocks Beaches?)

Clearwater Beach...it's like rated the most beautiful city beach...but it's so BORING and vanilla at night. Galveston? That place has an eerie but EXHILIRATING nocturnal vibe with virtually some sort of supernatural ambience in comparison. How I rate my two beach towns?

"Beach": Clearwater Beach 1, Galveston 0

Varied Shopping: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Architecture: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Bars: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Movie Theater: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Rail trolley: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Spookiness: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Food: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Unhindered Sea Wall: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Buxom bikini babes: EVEN, more or less.

Non-pet rats amok: Galveston 1, Clearwater 0

Scientology Central proximity: Clearwater 1, Galveston 0

When you take "beach" out of the equation, it's clear that Galveston blows away one of America's premier touristy city post card beach towns.

In fairness, I grew up with both Clearwater Beach and Galveston. They are yin and yang to me overall though it's obviously more than just the beach for me. Those negative pickers who bash on Galveston's less-than-Florida aspect miss out on the entire package that the Moody and Enchanted Island is in its entire context. Galveston, unique as it is, has a rich culturally-loaded urban partner called Houston. Clearwater has, um. Tampa. No, Orlando. Yep, I'm diggin' historic fine Cuban cigars, Mickey Mouse and whiny expat New Yorkers who have dominated the proletariat hoagie food culture here.

Furthermore, don't Phoenix, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas, St. Louis and other such great but coastless cities wish they can have a wonderful and weird island getaway that Houston has so close by? For Chicago, I guess you could always take a personal yacht to Gary, Indiana.

As said, if you want a fake beach, then come see me. Otherwise take it easy on a wonderful resource like Galveston. Any place can use improvement, Galveston included...but I think it's humorous to see huffing and puffing because it's not "Florida."

Maybe the mindset of Houston needs to change and someone,somebody,something needs to initiate change. Houston is too much status quo, conservative. Pretty sad.

Regarding something like a 24 hour Galleria and the conservative ascriptions thereof...it's not just a Houston thing...America in general is conservative in terms of keeping late hours with the total exception of New York and Las Vegas. Driving down Wilshire in LA through Beverly Hills at 11 pm most nights is even a bit deader than nocturnal 610 and Westheimer. Of course, Vegas is sort of artificial with no real culture and the gambling is something that keeps people up for days on end. New York...if you lived there, how can you sleep anyway?

From San Diego to Tampa Bay...people who spend the upscale money go to bed early typically...or they certainly do not keep in mind buying that pair of thousand dollar gloves at 3:30 am. It's not a "conservative Houston" thing per se. In Spain, people get socially started for the night at midnight! So no, this is America where the underlying Anglo Puritan heritage makes most of us in bed by 9 or 10 pm (except those of us who work 2nd or 3rd shift hours...and that demographic certainly ain't no Tiffany or Cartier shopping one!).

The Galleria itself is private property so I don't see that Swedish type of right-to-the-land thing applying to it in a 24 hour context anyway. It's not profitable to the property owners or merchants.

Well, that Vince Young "homecoming" game is out of the way. I hope the Texans from here on out will sack Vince Young's ass next time, and many more after that.

To those who are decrying David Carr...and also those who think of Drew Brees as all that (well he is now), I lived in San Diego for four years from 2002-2006 (minus seven months in 2004 when I was back in Houston). And I watched the Chargers closely. Yes,

I can can tell you Brees was no instant savior. He pretty much started when the Marty Ball era did back in 2002, basically a little after I got there. He even had the services of a blooming rookie weapon called LT.

Brees posted decent numbers, throwing over 3000 yards or so that year, but still the Chargers sucked overall.

Then into the 2003 campaign...Brees still sucked and Tomlinson was a blossoming force already. Yep, Brees sucked so badly that I remember that Schottenheimer benched his ass in favor of the ancient Doug Flutie for many weeks!

The Drew Brees of 2003 looked more clueless than the David Carr of 2006. Brees was quite worse in 2003 than in 2002.

In 2004, the Chargers were predicted to be the worst team in football, but after 2 seasons of difficulty, Brees and Tomlinson finally got their chemistry and competent offensive line...plus having some decent receivers like Keenan McCardell, Reche Caldwell and the emergence of one of the best tight ends in Antonio Gates...helped Drew Brees' confidence A LOT. The Chargers finished 12-4 that year.

Now, in 2006 (Year One in a new coaching era), David Carr has no ground game. His projected running back, a quiet but top 10 running back (collated over the past few seasons) named Dom Davis was put out for the year. So he has no version of LT to help him out in the Texans' new era. Who knows, with Dom Davis' 1,000 something yards this year, they could have produced at least two or three more wins at this point.

Sure he has Andre Johnson but in David's shoes...a solid running game does make the passing game easier; it IS the horse before the chariot, no doubt.

I don't blame David Carr per se. He's sucked some games for sure, but he's also shown ability throughout the season. Unlike Drew Brees whose first Charger teams had personnel in the right timely growth, Carr has not been given the right cards yet except for one wide receiver!

Until some more time passes and Carr finally has his pieces, we really shouldn't pass judgement. The Texans are already twice better than last season's terminal disaster.

And despite Drew Brees' coming out party in 2004...if I'm not mistaken, the Chargers regressed in 2005, missing the playoffs again. Bye, bye Brees, hello Rivers. And didn't Philip inherit an essentially well-stocked team. Philips has talent, for sure, but then so does David.

Vince Young is successful for the moment because his talent is showing up, his helter skelter, play-with-nothing-to-lose factor altering the course of recent games (catching teams off guard)...that is until the rest of the league catches up and forces him to learn how to throw more efficiently. A guy like Michael Vick has won his share of games, hasn't he? But the Atlanta Falcons have never shown a consistent sense of dominance, just a few gaudy win-loss records here and there.

Are you kidding?!? Bud Adams was jilted? By whom? This clown held us hostage in 1987 for an expansion to the Dome and then not 10 years later tried the same exact thing. Then he got mad when we didn't want to give in to him AGAIN. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The nanosecond he went to Nashville I bolted for another team and why not? He showed me as a fan not one whiff of loyalty, so why should I return the favor? I suported his underperforming team through thick and mostly thin. And his response was what? "Gimme a new stadium or else I'm outta here."

I wish him no good at all (at least in the football sense, not a personal sense).

Two of my favorite sports memories are:

1) Carlos Beltran standing there with the bat on his shoulder to end the 2006 NLCS

2) Titans falling one yard short in the Super Bowl

They got their money, but they didn't get the real payday. THAT'S karma!

As I've said, Bud Adams is a cranky grease fart. But his Oilers have always been my team since becoming a Houstonian. Bud doesn't have to show me anything. He's a crankass and the NFL is a hard business. He was willing to make deals even if he wasn't the nicest face in the mix. He did not pull an Art Modell...and consider that Cleveland has probably the most loyal NFL fan base anywhere outside of Wisconsin. Bud was only wishing for what was eventually given to Bob McNair. But Bob's a nice face in the mix.

Besides, I was still loyal to the Titans when old Oilers on the team like Marcus Robertson still professed to win games for interested people in Houston. That was a reason to keep pulling for them, at least for me.

Bud Adams got his in the 2000 Super Bowl and Houston got theirs last Sunday. But I'm over it.

The Texans will still see many battles with the Titans ahead...and it's going to make for a great rivalry when these teams become good.

I was refering more to the bigger cities. Houston is the 4th largest city, we should be up there with New York, Boston and San Fran. LA and Houston, have pretty scummy (after work hours) downtowns compaired to other cities such as: Philadelphia, Washington, Boston, New York, Chicago, Seattle.

Don't get me wrong, I think Houston can do it, I wouldn't live downtown if I didn't think anything was going to happen. We just need a mayor who is interested in doing something with our Downtown, not relying on the next mayor to do something.

(also if you haven't noticed, crime rate in downtown has increased between the hours of 7pm - 7am) I really don't want to have to goto a 6 hour course just to carry a gun to run to the gym everynight. (;o))

Houston and LA are very sprawling compared to the other metros. There are entertainment/commercial options outside of the central/downtown core. It's just the nature of these cities.

I didn't get the impression from Seattle, for example, that there was much else other than the Rainier Square (downtown) and Space Needle. Sure there's the very adjacent Fish Market and International District (Chinatown, which is quite a nice one) but certainly didn't get the impression of a varied sprawlfest and the attendant treasures.

But in Houston we've got more than decent entertainment/shopping everywhere in the accessible metro sprawl...Sugarland, Kemah, Rice Village, Montrose, 19th Streets in the Heights, League City, Uptown/Galleria, Woodlands, Galveston and so forth. Houston will therefore take awhile before its downtown becomes a Gas Lamp (San Diego) or Seattle. But hey, downtown Houston is still a very decent option for entertainment as it is. If we aren't into the sexy if suburban corner of Fountainview/Westheimer for some nocturnal options...then we have the wide sidewalks and alleys of downtown. Isn't is nice to have these options in Houston?

Uh... karma for the jilted Oiler fans would have been Young stuffed at the one yard line and to see the agony on Bud Adams' face.

We were loyal to the Oilers. The team left us, we didn't leave them.

I don't think you see it from my POV.

Bud wanted to stay if he could...and he was jilted (as were those of us loyal Oiler fans who wanted them here regardless). Personally, I think Bud is a grump, but what he asked for in the first place was basically later given to Bob McNair, even if he is a nicer owner. It's nothing like what Art Modell did with his Browns/Ravens in that time frame...packed up the trucks and snuck out of Cleveland in the night for Baltimore. Bud was willing to make a deal to stay in town and keep the Oilers.

Basically, for us Oiler fans...those of us who wanted them to stay, and were still rooting for them awhile (such as myself as long as guys like Steve McNair, Brad Hopkins, Al Del Greco, Eddie George, Bruce Matthews, Frank Wycheck, Marcus Robertson, etc.)...it IS karma of sorts. I didn't mind if the Texans won but I do feel good for the Oilers' ghosts in this one.

It doesn't matter if we root for the Texans now. The Titans are no longer "my" team. Still...

It was the right karma. I love Houston sports but I was sort of mad at the Houston mindset against the Oilers at the time. Houston got a punishment game for letting the Oilers go and Vince was the point man in it. But it's done, I have no real passion in this one...I think David Carr is the right guy for what the Texans are trying to accomplish in the near future AND I have nothing against Bud Adams and his team from Nashville.

Ah, the No-tsu-oh is BACK!

I loved hanging out there with my wife and sometimes other folks...or even MYSELF back in '00 or '01.

Always something going on there.

Impromptu theater up in that hidden balcony.

Great to get a mug of coffee and a brownie...and pick out books and listen to people nearby.

The days (or nights) when Main Street was more urban rough (before the METRORAIL) and the sidewalks WERE CROWDED.

I once swapped pleasantries with some really long-haired older dude who seemed Native American (probably was, who knows) and he went on about how we were the ones sitting in the patios while the "money people" went by and by.

So into the night I was, I actually took my cup of joe around a few blocks just checking out the scene before returning to no-tsu-oh with it. The nights before Main Street was beautified...the choking sounds of the METRO buses at night and roar of traffic, so urbanly rough.

No-tsu-oh is a jewel...no place like it in San Diego or Tampa...that's fo' suuure! It represents Houston's unique eccentricity compared to the other more or less similar Sunbelt cities.

Makes me even more eager to visit hometown Houston that much sooner!

Yeah yeah yeah and in 1962 the Dallas Texans beat the Houston Oilers 20-17 in double overtime for the AFL Championship, if you are gonna tell the story tell it all.

There's no "story" to tell. Someone was asking if the Oilers ever played on Thanksgiving and I answered the question.

Then there's the insinuation that the Oilers never won anything. And I answered that.

Furthermore, the Dallas Texans haven't belonged to Big D...for some many decades. So Mr. Barnes, if there's a story for you to tell, tell it all.

Correct. Although those two years just happened to be the years that M. Jordan was doing his baseball thing. Just stating a fact.

Well, if you count league/conference championships, the Cowboys have 8 NFC championships. And if you go to the World Series and get swept, does it really count?

Plus, 30-odd Oiler seasons with no championships.

Minor league. Who can forget those thrilling games against Manitoba and Grand Rapids?

Soccer only counts as a sport in Mexico and Katy.

WNBA

In 45 years, I'll be dead and the Texans will still suck.

Include only actual championships and take away soccer, minor league sports and the WNBA and it's Metroplex 6, Gallery Furnitureplex 2.

The Oilers do have two AFL Championships, in 1960 and 1961, during a time before the NFL had an "AFC" and an "NFC" (basically before there was ever such a thing called the Super Bowl). It's outside of your "30-odd seasons" criterion but it should be mentioned nonetheless. And the Oilers, albeit as Titans, do have an AFC Championship even if Houston can't count it.

The Rockets of the early 1990s had a 5-1 head-to-head record vs Michael Jordan and those Chicago Bulls. They had MJ's number and both MJ and the Bulls' announcers once admitted that the Rockets would have been a serious problem (i.e. no answer for Olajuwon). There's no guarantee that those Bulls would've beaten the Rockets even if Jordan hadn't retired.