[2112]

The Engineering and Sciences contract with NASA, which was held by Lockheed for over 42 years going back to the Mercury and Apollo programs, was lost last week to Jacobs Sverdrup. Lockheed had designed everything from radar used on the lunar surface, to space shuttle and space station avionics, to the new mission control center, and all supporting tasks. Unlike other contracts that are primarily operations and support, Lockheeds contract was the premere pure science, and design engineering team for Houston's Johnson Space Center. It is being felt hard within the troops, where unique talent that can only be transfered by working with the elders, is being broken apart. Contrary to popular believe, manned space travel is difficult, and requires many years to master the harsh and unforegiving nature of space.


My termination date will be January 31st, 2005.
I have been with Lockheed for 18 years.

Merry Christmas

Regards,

2112

[Houston19514]

That sucks, 2112. :-(

Hopefully, you'll get on with Jacobs Sverdrup.

[2112]

[ssullivan]

Sorry to hear you're affected by this 2112. My sister is also losing her current job in this layoff.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[Subdude]

Sorry, 2112.

[editor]

Wow. Sorry to hear about it. I wish I could do something for you. At this point the only thing I can offer is some ad space if you want to post your skills/resume. I can run the ads across all of the web sites. You never know who might see it. PM me if you're interested.

[2112]

tw2ntyse7en, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004 @ 2:39pm, said:

So what you're saying is that this new company (Jacob Sverdrup) is going to rehire laid-off Lockheed employees, and then "matrix" them to various departments within their awarded division?

Does this mean you will be rehired? How many others will be rehired?

Found this press release:

NASA Press Release

Glen
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We wont know who will be obsorbed by the new company until after January 10th. The rumor is that Sverdrup is scared as hell that workers will jump ship and transfer with within Lockheed at other sites throughout the country. Some people are actualy speculating that they never really expected to beat Lockheed, and that now, they are worried about delivering!! Of course, they have SOME experience with NASA at Marshal Space Center. But they aint no Lockheed. If enough people jump ship, this would seriously delay, if not downright halt, current return-to-flight efforts, not to mention the loss of critical skills and human capital.

The thing about this contract, at least the way it used to work, is that Lockheed's product was primarily the human capital. In other words, some laboratory in JSC required, say, 3 highly experienced hardware engineers, two entry level, one experienced programmer, and maybe 10 test engineers and one quality engineer. So if the contractor only is able to find people who cannot do the job and really have little experience in that particular area, then the contractor is not providing the product it promissed, and that is directly reflected in that quarters "grade" for the contractor, which equates to a specified profit or lack of thereof.

True, the end-result is flight or non-flight hardware and software, or the operations of a lab such as Mission Control. But technically, the actual product that NASA is paying for is the expertise to have on hand and on-line, i.e., the person. In fact, the higher qualified and better performance employee, the higher the contracter got payed per-hour for that person. Like, A Ph.D would equate to higher profit per/person for the company, in addition to the quarterly grade award-fee based on overall contract performance.

What is so strange, for the last 5 grading periods, Lockheed had received above 90 percent, out of 100, for grades, mainly for all the work on return-to-flight. Naturally, we were all shocked when we lost in the end.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[ssullivan]

tw2ntyse7en, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004 @ 5:21pm, said:

Are there any astronauts in space right now?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are two right now -- one American and one Russian on the International Space Station. There have been stories in the news lately that supplies on the station are running low and there is a problem with a Russian supply ship about to be launched in a few days, the crew may have to abandon the station.

Being laid off really does suck and is unfortunately a part of the world we live and work in today. I lost my job at the end of September and am still looking. But as I told my sister on the phone last night when helping her with some questions as she was putting together her resume and application to submit to Sverdrup, this is the reality of working today. And we should both count ourselves lucky that it happened for the first time fairly early in our careers and while we're both single and don't have tons of commitments with family and such. I've met people recently who are in their 50s who've been laid off for the first time ever and haven't conducted a job search in 25 years. I'd give almost anything to have not been laid off and not be in the situation I'm currently in, but I also know that I'm only 30 and odds are this will happen at least two or three more times before I reach retirement. At least next time it happens I'll know that I've successfully dealt with it before and can deal with it again.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[ssullivan]

tw2ntyse7en, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004 @ 5:53pm, said:

Only 30 eh? The city is looking for a few good men/women for Paramedic school
You'll never get laid off here, plus a pension & 10 year drop. Sure the pays not the best, but there are other rewards in this line of work

Glen
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Glen. But it's not really a line of work I'm interested in.

[bachanon]

2112, i'm sorry to hear about your job situation. i hope you'll take advantage of us here at HAIF when you need a distraction.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[ssullivan]

Thanks it has been tough. But in the words of Gloria Gaynor, I will survive!

[Subdude]

bachanon, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004 @ 5:18pm, said:

2112, i'm sorry to hear about your job situation.    i hope you'll take advantage of us here at HAIF when you need a distraction. 
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, we're going to expect DOUBLE the postings from you now!

Seriously, even though getting laid off is part of today's employment landscape, it is still tough (I was laid off from one of our city's more infamous companies ). It's always a blow to the ego, plus you have the uncertainty about being able to maintain your pay or even stay in Houston. I wish both of you the best of luck.

[2112]

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[2112]

tw2ntyse7en, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2004 @ 10:18pm, said:

You will accept with no doubt, correct?

Glen
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I will do what is best for the family, of course, however,
my heart and soul is tied first to Houston, then to NASA, and then my laboratory. Call me old-fashion, but I really believed in Loyalty. I really enjoy developing electronics, and where I am at is like family, so, yes, I will take the offer to stay there.

Still waiting for it though...

[MidtownCoog]

Sesame Street had a good episode last week on dealing with change. I thought about showing it to my team at work.

Change can be a good thing. 39 is way to young to be set in your ways.

Good luck!

[2112]

MidtownCoog, on Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 @ 10:09am, said:

Sesame Street had a good episode last week on dealing with change.  I thought about showing it to my team at work. 

Change can be a good thing.  39 is way to young to be set in your ways.

Good luck!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. My Christmas trip to the Valley really put things into focus, on what is important. It never fails...all I have to do is see the poverty that has always existed in the valley, and I quickly realize how spoiled I am. It was not that long ago when I lived there, and to think I am worried about a leadership change when I am probably going to keep my job...it seems silly all of a sudden.

The thing I like about NASA, at least in the lab I have worked at, is that we are allowed to think outside the box and innovate. It is hard to go to another industry where last quarter's earnings and stock price dictates your likelyhood of staying employed. I would think one would tend to stick to the time-prooven for-sure ways of developing, at least for design engineers, and not think crazy new ways of doing things. Of course, once we come up with some crazy idea, and the money is given to us, then we have to deliver. But we can think a little more long term and in terms of quality more than price. I like that. I will stick around in a hear-beat.

[2112]

tw2ntyse7en, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2004 @ 10:18pm, said:

You will accept with no doubt, correct?

Glen
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I got my offer letter yesturday. I have 2 days to decline or accept. I will accept.

Time for beer....anyone game?

[Houston19514]

Congratulations! That's great to hear!!

[2112]

Houston19514, on Friday, January 14th, 2005 @ 4:16pm, said:

Congratulations!  That's great to hear!!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.

[2112]

...Just an update to this old thread....the last post was over a year and a half ago....anyways....

I'm going back to Lockheed!!!!! This thursday is my last day with Jacobs Sverdrup....I start Monday the 25th on the Orion CEV project..

I had been in contact for with Locheed for about 2 months....with contingent offer in hand....and was just waiting to see who would win the big contract. There are a bunch of us jumping ship from Jacobs...to go back home to Lockheed.....I guess in retrospect...it all worked out!

Hey, just reading back on this thread...it was nice to have all you HAIF friends to offer a kind word when all the crap happened a year and a half ago.....thanks again.....

This post has been edited by 2112: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 at 12:06 AM

[Mark F. Barnes]

2112, on Wednesday, September 20th, 2006 @ 12:04am, said:

...Just an update to this old thread....the last post was over a year and a half ago....anyways....

I'm going back to Lockheed!!!!! This thursday is my last day with Jacobs Sverdrup....I start Monday the 25th on the Orion CEV project..

I had been in contact for with Locheed for about 2 months....with contingent offer in hand....and was just waiting to see who would win the big contract. There are a bunch of us jumping ship from Jacobs...to go back home to Lockheed.....I guess in retrospect...it all worked out!

Hey, just reading back on this thread...it was nice to have all you HAIF friends to offer a kind word when all the crap happened a year and a half ago.....thanks again.....

Congratulations!!!!!! That's great to hear!!!!!!!

Time for beer again!!!!!

[editor]

Exccellent news. What is the Orion CEV project?

[Mark F. Barnes]

[2112]

What he said.

[MidtownCoog]

FINALLY some Pork for Houston!

It's about time!

[The Great Hizzy!]

^^^ LOL @ 'Coog. It's been about 25 years. I agree.

Anyway, congrats, 2112. Good news, for sure.

[Houston19514]

2112, on Wednesday, September 20th, 2006 @ 12:04am, said:

...Just an update to this old thread....the last post was over a year and a half ago....anyways....

I'm going back to Lockheed!!!!! This thursday is my last day with Jacobs Sverdrup....I start Monday the 25th on the Orion CEV project..

I had been in contact for with Locheed for about 2 months....with contingent offer in hand....and was just waiting to see who would win the big contract. There are a bunch of us jumping ship from Jacobs...to go back home to Lockheed.....I guess in retrospect...it all worked out!

Hey, just reading back on this thread...it was nice to have all you HAIF friends to offer a kind word when all the crap happened a year and a half ago.....thanks again.....

Great news, 2112! Congratulations.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

[The Great Hizzy!]

Those graphics make me think of Buzz Lightyear, especially the first one.

[VelvetJ]

That's great news 2112

[2112]

FYI: Those renderings are from the original proposal...NASA re-requested for an apollo style capsule, as the updated plan was for the capability for a water splash down landing or a land based landing via parachute, and to do away with the necessity of a runway style landing. The new renderings look more like an updated apollo module.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

2112, on Thursday, September 21st, 2006 @ 8:50pm, said:

FYI: Those renderings are from the original proposal...NASA re-requested for an apollo style capsule, as the updated plan was for the capability for a water splash down landing or a land based landing via parachute, and to do away with the necessity of a runway style landing. The new renderings look more like an updated apollo module.

Uh oh, that is gov. speak for "you are on a tight budget, make do with whatcha can on limited funds".

[houstonfella]

Houston1stWordOnTheMoon, on Thursday, September 21st, 2006 @ 11:42pm, said:

Uh oh, that is gov. speak for "you are on a tight budget, make do with whatcha can on limited funds".

The sad thing about tight budgets is that wasteful spending is rampant. Millions of dollars are squandered into the abyss. Yet, we go about life as if it weren't happening. And for those folks getting laid off, we feel your pain. GM, Ford, it is going on all over. Bummer.

[skwatra]

i was working on that proposal for the last year, except on the wrong side...
still got ISS/Shuttle work though, so most of us are ok for now.

[2112]

Well....I'm on my second week on CEV/Orion...and it has been like drinking out of a fire hose. For a bit there, I started having second thoughts...mainly because I am now a "systems" level engineer...and I have spent the last 19 years or so as a circuit and firmware designer..down at the gorry detail...on the same contract for that long. Part of me misses all that, but I guess I have to look at it like its a new phase for me...the next 20 years! All in all....so far it's envigorating (spelling?)...so many things that are changing almost hourly. It's all good.

FYI: The people breakdown more or less on the Lockheed side (not including subcontractors) is about 800 are in Denver, and about 700 here in Houston. There are others in various states...close to the other space centers....but a big chunk is Denver and Houston. That's an expected number once all staffing peaks and the project is in full throttle. The goal is a first manned launch of Orion to the Space Station in about 2014, and the return of humans to the moon at around 2020. The idea is that - this time - there will be permanent human presence on the moon with the buildup of lunar outposts and such. I dont plan to retire until after 65...so I "should" be around to be a part of that and witness it!!!

skwatra, on Monday, September 25th, 2006 @ 10:49am, said:

i was working on that proposal for the last year, except on the wrong side...
still got ISS/Shuttle work though, so most of us are ok for now.

Uhhg!!! Boeing in the House!

j/k

Seriously, I hope there are not any people affected by Boeing not winning the contract. I heard rumors that USA (United Space Alliance) will accomadate any Boeing people left over from the proposal phase. Of course, I'm sure there are Boeing people who would relocate to Seattle or California in a heart beat too.

[The Great Hizzy!]

2020?

That sounds cool. So it would appear that Arthur C. Clarke (and Stanley ubrick) would be off by about 25 years or so, right.

[skwatra]

2112, on Wednesday, October 4th, 2006 @ 11:39pm, said:

Uhhg!!! Boeing in the House!

j/k

Seriously, I hope there are not any people affected by Boeing not winning the contract. I heard rumors that USA (United Space Alliance) will accomadate any Boeing people left over from the proposal phase. Of course, I'm sure there are Boeing people who would relocate to Seattle or California in a heart beat too.

we'll be fine, plenty of work to go around. most of the people who were working on the proposal have been brought back to Station. which is getting much more busy with Flights, and upgrades (to eventually accomodate CEV).
and no one (in Avionics at least) wants to go to Cali or Seattle, too expensive! and many of them came from there (huntington beach transitioned here in 2001).

so far we've had on person defect to LM, but he had worked there on Freedom back in the 90's.

Are you guys going to reopen LM9 and 10 (or whatever those white buildings are on NASA 1)? Were you leasing them when you had SEAT?

[2112]

skwatra, on Thursday, October 5th, 2006 @ 4:54pm, said:

we'll be fine, plenty of work to go around. most of the people who were working on the proposal have been brought back to Station. which is getting much more busy with Flights, and upgrades (to eventually accomodate CEV).
and no one (in Avionics at least) wants to go to Cali or Seattle, too expensive! and many of them came from there (huntington beach transitioned here in 2001).

so far we've had on person defect to LM, but he had worked there on Freedom back in the 90's.

Are you guys going to reopen LM9 and 10 (or whatever those white buildings are on NASA 1)? Were you leasing them when you had SEAT?

"Defect"?

Hehehehe. I love the whole Lockheed vs Boeing culture that has pretty much been around since the Rockwell days (Rockwell was the prime shuttle orbiter builder...later purchased by Boeing). Ive always been a Lockheed person, and we never had a prime manned spacecraft contract...only engineering support. So this is quite a different feel for many of us...I guess all you Boeing types are veterans at all this. Even though that rivalry is there...to me its all the same game...if all of us dont prove to the American public that we can get the job done...then all of us will loose, Boeing and Lockheed and all the others too. I'm optimistic even after 20 years of being at JSC with all the political crap and all that comes with it...I'm still one-hundred percent behind it still. As far as the 2 buildings...those are the old "Lockheed plaza one" and "plaza two" buildings....which later became LM2 and LM3. We are getting one of them back but only after the landlord renovates it....the place has been the same since 1986 (at least) and needs serious re-work. The second building is sparcely ocupied by the SAIC company (safety and quality assurance)...but I hear if the landlord wanted to - they can all be put on one floor....and Lockheed could get the remaing floors....but thats just a rumor. In the mean time...we all are being crammed 3 to 5 people in one room!...with those white home depot fold up tables...and nothing else!!! I have been scrounging around for post-it notes and a trashcan, and just today I found a nice dusty 1970's vintage file organizer complete with simulated wood formica. The telephones are ancient, they work, but they dont have speakers. This sucks because we are in contact with Denver several times a week...and like 2-to-3 hour teleconferences holding a phone up to your ear is a slight pain. Plus there is no mute button. I'm sure it sounds like a heavy breathing fest at the other end. At least we have adequate computers. Looking around and watching us, it's kinda funny considering the task at hand.

When I hired on 2 weeks ago...there were only 15 of us, we were the first batch of hires since the contract win announcement, no joke. And if you include the proposal people that were allready there....I think we made up no more than 35 or so. Twelve more got hired this week....and there is suppose to be a continuing ramp up. Of course there are the others in Denver..and they are ramping up also. It's kinda weird watching all this unfold around me...I kinda feel small when you think of the big picture. But maybe I'm not the only one that feels this way, maybe they just are not showing it. I always believed that confidence should be tempered with a little fear. I know this for sure, if at least part of you is not scared at the task that has been placed in front of us...then you probably dont belong there.

edit:
Just for the record...all of this is just my opinion and my opinion only.
Jeez...It's too bad I felt the need to add this little edit...what has this world come to?

This post has been edited by 2112: Thursday, October 5, 2006 at 9:44 PM