The Real World: Houston

[musicman]

I wasnt comparing. Just making a statement.

To make a statement like you did, there has to be some comparison.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wasnt comparing. Just making a statement.

You said this just the post before...

As I mentioned previously I travel for a living so luckily I do not have to spend every day and night in H-town....

And

...I have been enough places to understand the norms and the unique.

That's why I thought it was a comparison. I'm curious what places you're talking about that are the norms, unique, and that never talk about how great they are.

Also, I'm assuming from your name that you're a Midtown resident. I've only been there for nightlife twice since being back, and it was fair but not OMG. All the clubs there seemed to be "certain shoe, certain look" kinda clubs, and they didn't feel very vibe-ish. Either they were off-nights, or there's a redundant, try-too-hard attitude there. I'll have to go there a few more times to find out, or maybe I just need to try chillin' in the bars and cafes there more, 'cause it felt much more real there than Midtown's clubs did. But if Midtown's your reference of all of Houston, I say you should try cruising around more.

-Downtown Main Street has been hoping everytime I've been there, and it didn't matter if I was chilling with millionaires or friends with a budget, there's something for everyone with every look there. Just a fun vibe all out, and it's still getting better because of all the opening developments nearby within the next 2 years.

-Montrose's jazz and bar scene was great, but I didn't see anyplace there pedestrian friendly. U gotta have a car and know where to go in order to vibe right there.

-I love Uptown because there's plenty of places to go where things are just real and relaxing. I love studying there and chilling after a party in that area. Bellaire SWAT and Sugarland as well. Town Center really impressed me. Nothing like that was there before I moved to Korea.

I'm not saying "Houston is the best because of these areas" or bragging or anything like that. I'm just saying that in the short time I've been back, Houston looks like a different and more developed scene. Prior to me leaving, vibe in Houston meant cruising on the Richmond Strip...and that was basically it. It was an unorganized mess as a whole. Now, Houston seems really cool overall. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't say so.

[worldlyman]

Um, that question was directed toward DJLawrence...notice the question followed Djjazzylawrences' quote.

Just reread your post, and that will tell you right there how uncool people are in Houston. Good Grief. "Montrose's textured neighborhood vibe" YOU are trying way to hard to come off as some super hip finger on the heartbeat of all things cool asian individual. Just like DJ Jazzy lawrence. Y'all are just to cool for your own good and Houston's good.

OMG, you did not mention Kemah!!! There is no point whatsoever to continue this dialog!

Actually, anyone can defend a city that's being slammed. Angelenos are quite quick to point out that L.A. isn't all gangs and gun battles, rather defensively.

Nothing wrong with Kemah as such. If Kemah specifically were in a "hip" city like New York or San Francisco it would certainly display that much more appeal for those towns, eh? But because it's in Houston's turf...nah. Houston's just an unhip cactus dustbowl with nothing special about it. Yep.

(How many times are we treated to nice vistas in movies, tv shows and music videos of the Golden Gate Bridge, Fisherman' Wharf, Statue of Liberty and Times Square...but do you personally get sick of it?),

The Santa Monica Boardwalk...soooo coool. "Hip" Angelenos can brag about it endlessly without ridicule apparently. But when Houstonians would like to point out something like Kemah...they're trying too hard to get recognition. For shame.

I already acknowledged the touristy aspect of Kemah...but that Houston's got some of its own unique urban scenes as well such as the downtown tunnels, the Med Center, the Uptown Williams Waterfalls...stuff that would look pretty cool on the boob tube.

The pan-Asian element does lend a type of hipness to a city, whether that is all that important or not. I see it better in Houston than in San Diego for what it's worth, you know, the one prettyface city that got the Real World. Hipness is a denominator that was pulled up in this thread.

And the Montrose does have texture. As an entertainment district, it looks vastly different than the Rice Village or downtown.

[HarryMoto]

Then what?

I'd heard they were doing Sydney, Australia after Atlanta. Sydney's a great city with a phenomenal party/club scene but it doesn't really matter where they shoot The Real World. No longer do the roommates engage the local culture; they just find a bar that allows them to get drunk, pick fights, and have one-night stands with local starry-eyed famewhores. It could be Sydney or Selma, Houston or Hilo, makes no difference.

[Pumapayam]

I am sure they will do something with the kangaroos in Sydney!

[DJ V Lawrence]

The Santa Monica Boardwalk...soooo coool. "Hip" Angelenos can brag about it endlessly without ridicule apparently. But when Houstonians would like to point out something like Kemah...they're trying too hard to get recognition. For shame.

Well said! 250 cool-points awarded to Worldlyman, yo!!!

[dalparadise]

Well said! 250 cool-points awarded to Worldlyman, yo!!!

Minus cool points for propping this lame take. NOBODY who's ever been near the Santa Monica Pier thinks it's hip or cool. It is, in fact very much like a larger Kemah Boardwalk. It is a cheesy seaside amusement park full of mouth-breathers and family attractions. Santa Monica itself is fairly cool, with some nice restaurants and a few bars popping up. But the pier? Sweet Jesus, that's sucked since before the Jack Tripper days.

Do you people honestly equate "hip" or "cool" with amusement parks and funnel cakes?

[DJ V Lawrence]

Minus cool points for propping this lame take. NOBODY who's ever been near the Santa Monica Pier thinks it's hip or cool. It is, in fact very much like a larger Kemah Boardwalk. It is a cheesy seaside amusement park full of mouth-breathers and family attractions. Santa Monica itself is fairly cool, with some nice restaurants and a few bars popping up. But the pier? Sweet Jesus, that's sucked since before the Jack Tripper days.

Do you people honestly equate "hip" or "cool" with amusement parks and funnel cakes?

You're missing the point. It's not that WE think Santa Monica Boardwalk is cool. The point is that when L.A.'s boardwalk is branded as the "cool" or "hip" thing on tv, postcards, etc., it's not ridiculed. But if it were Kemah Boardwalk that Houstonians ever used as an example of why Houston's a hot place, it would be considered a joke. It has nothing to do with either place's attractions...

[worldlyman]

Minus cool points for propping this lame take. NOBODY who's ever been near the Santa Monica Pier thinks it's hip or cool. It is, in fact very much like a larger Kemah Boardwalk. It is a cheesy seaside amusement park full of mouth-breathers and family attractions. Santa Monica itself is fairly cool, with some nice restaurants and a few bars popping up. But the pier? Sweet Jesus, that's sucked since before the Jack Tripper days.

Do you people honestly equate "hip" or "cool" with amusement parks and funnel cakes?

I never said the SM Pier was "hip." But really, it is still one of the "cool" icons among Angelenos, mainstream, hip or otherwise, one of their bragging points...and I lived in Southern California for a quite a few years myself, certainly no stranger to LA or its people and mindset. I've seen hipsters (or at least the wannabes) there on the Boardwalk.

It's not unusual to see it in the movies. If it's not the Golden Gate Bridge or some such thing, the Santa Monica Pier comes around second place on celluloid. Unhip people make the movies out in LA, apparently. Looking at nationally televised Lakers games, it's a regular bumper scene.

Houston...now who's ever heard of that cows--t town having a fun pleasant boardwalk?

By the way, it's not Santa Monica's boardwalk specifically that's in question...there are other places there that are bragged about by Angelenos that are popular but I would not consider "hip" such as Old Town Pasadena, 3rd Street Promenade...hell, I saw nothing "hip" or really cool about Main St. in Santa Monica (it looks like a smaller Colorado Blvd). Those are really Kemah Boardwalks with non-Tilman Fertitta fare.

Some of the clubs and bars in ungentrified parts north of downtown LA and even in San Pedro...now that stuff was cool!

And Robertson Blvd...now that can be kinda hip there.

Lots of the fun people-gathering places of SF, Chicago, LA, NY, Las Vegas, Miami, and so forth, HIP or UN-HIP, get airplay or celluloid love. Those folks who find Houston unworthy are the same ones who don't have a problem with the fare in those other, ahem, more regarded locales. That's why those cities get to have "The Real World."

I hope the context of all this is seen more clearly.

[Guest Marty]

I went to Santa Monica just because of Threes Company remember the episode were Jack jogs to the pier and back, i guess i look at things differently

[dalparadise]

You're missing the point. It's not that WE think Santa Monica Boardwalk is cool. The point is that when L.A.'s boardwalk is branded as the "cool" or "hip" thing on tv, postcards, etc., it's not ridiculed. But if it were Kemah Boardwalk that Houstonians ever used as an example of why Houston's a hot place, it would be considered a joke. It has nothing to do with either place's attractions...

So, you DON'T think it's cool, but wish Kemah could be just as inaccurately portrayed? I think you missed the point.

The only people I've ever heard who have said the Santa Monica Pier is "cool" is you. Ditto Kemah. These are crappy tourist traps and places where local suburbanites can go for a weekend. Nobody from LA is touting Santa Monica Pier as cool. Nobody from New York thinks Chelsea Piers is cool. Nobody from San Francisco thinks Fisherman's Wharf is cool. And nobody from Houston thinks Kemah Boardwalk is cool...at least nobody cool from any of these places thinks they're cool. Kemah has a miniature train, people who let their bastard kids bathe in the public fountains and shops selling lawn ornaments, for God's sake!

I can't believe I got pulled into this inane conversation.

[DJ V Lawrence]

So, you DON'T think it's cool, but wish Kemah could be just as inaccurately portrayed? I think you missed the point.

The only people I've ever heard who have said the Santa Monica Pier is "cool" is you. Ditto Kemah. These are crappy tourist traps and places where local suburbanites can go for a weekend. Nobody from LA is touting Santa Monica Pier as cool. Nobody from New York thinks Chelsea Piers is cool. Nobody from San Francisco thinks Fisherman's Wharf is cool. And nobody from Houston thinks Kemah Boardwalk is cool...at least nobody cool from any of these places thinks they're cool. Kemah has a miniature train, people who let their bastard kids bathe in the public fountains and shops selling lawn ornaments, for God's sake!

Now you're totally off Look at a postcard, go to any city's airport, turn on any tv show located in any of those cities(NYC, LA, SF), and lemme know what U see in the background. Dude, where were you when we had that Monopoly thread on HAIF a few months ago, and we had to choose the "best" place in each city? Nobody's debating anything about anything being "cool" or "uncool". I've never been to Santa Monica, so I wouldn't know how cool or uncool it is. But if L.A. brands it as cool, then it's no big deal, whereas if Houston branded Kemah or ANYWHERE else in Houston as cool, then Houston's "trying too hard", when both cities are promoting themselves.

Watch a morning show on ANY basic cable network one day (GMA, Today, CBS This Morning) and tell me what U see in the background. 5th Avenue, Rockafeller Center, and Times Square. I've been to all three places, and with the exception of being on tv, there's nothing you could do there that you couldn't do in Uptown or Downtown Houston (shopping, theatres, tourist attractions, 24/7 hang-out spots, places where the rich stay, etc.). Yet since I mentioned that, some people on HAIF will think I'm "trying too hard" to promote Houston? NYC and Houston are #1 and #2 in terms of their theatre districts, yet one's "cool" and the other's "trying too hard"? I'm not promoting anything; those places are just there. But after living in Houston for the past six months, hearing others say there's nothing to do and there's nothing "hip" or "cool" in Houston tells me something's wrong. Perhaps it's an automatic stigma.

BTW Marty, screw U dude!! I was thinking of using that exact picture on my avatar!! The Million Dollar Man ROCKS!!!

[Trae]

The Santa Monica Pier is nothing. I have been there. You the chollos hanging out on the beach in their sunglasses, and a lot of kids with their mommas. There are a lot of people walking around, but the Santa Monica Pier is no better than the Kemah Boardwalk. They have like this octopus guy who walks around there like Mickey Mouse, and one little "coaster" that goes around the place. I think Kemah is actually better.

[HarryMoto]

I'm not sure actual coolness matters as much as perception of cool, at least as seen by tastemakers, publishers, filmmakers, ad agencies, bloggers, etc. If you teleported back to the late '70s and asked the average Manhattanite, Londoner or San Franciscan if Miami, Sydney, Seattle, Minneapolis, or Athens, GA were cool, you would have gotten a resounding "no." Miami Beach was "God's waiting room" and basically had closed up shop when "The Jackie Gleason Show'" folded. Seattle's fortunes rested on the back of aerospace and was full of "Will the last person in Seattle turn off the lights" bumper stickers. Sydney was a second-rate London with more sun and better surf.

In less than a generation, everything changed -- and it wasn't because there were suddenly millions more cool people there, but that the cool people already there or cool elements about the cities began to get noticed by the tastemakers elsewhere. (And city officials took note of this and began marketing themselves accordingly.)

For Miami, it was "Miami Vice." For Seattle, it was Microsoft, Starbucks and grunge bands. For Australia, it was a wave of film directors/actors (Russell Crowe, Mel Gibson, Nicole Kidman, blah blah blah), rock bands, and a damn savvy tourist campaign and, of course, the very successful Olympics in 2000. Now, Sydney always ranks in the top 5 of those favorite-city polls, something that would have been unthinkable 30 years ago.

For a short time in the '80s, Minneapolis and Athens also benefitted from a spotlight on their respective music scenes. New Zealand is now considered cool because of "The Lord of the Rings." One of the reasons Austin gets to keep its perpetual cool card is because its viewed globally as having a dynamic music scene. (Though you certainly can't dismiss its political reputation as Texas' "blue-state" region as having appeal to East and West Coasters.)

While these pop-culture milestones might seem frivolous, anyone who has sat in traffic fuming in the last decade in Seattle, Miami or Sydney knows, they do work in bringing media attention and, for better or worse, increased tourism, immigration and more dollars into the local economy.

With as vibrant an economy and population as Houston has, there's no reason why something couldn't pop up that could make the media world stand up and notice Houston. The hip-hop scene has done that to a certain extent already.

[dalparadise]

The Santa Monica Pier is nothing. I have been there. You the chollos hanging out on the beach in their sunglasses, and a lot of kids with their mommas. There are a lot of people walking around, but the Santa Monica Pier is no better than the Kemah Boardwalk. They have like this octopus guy who walks around there like Mickey Mouse, and one little "coaster" that goes around the place. I think Kemah is actually better.

You're trying too hard.

[MiDTOWNeR]

You can debate this locale or that locale...it is the people in Houston...especially those with mentalities like what is being epxressed on this thread that make this place not cool. AGAIN, stop trying so hard.

"No, bbbbbbut wait, kemah is only cool in that way that Santa Monica Pier is cool, YO" Neither are cool.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You can debate this locale or that locale...it is the people in Houston...especially those with mentalities like what is being epxressed on this thread that make this place not cool. AGAIN, stop trying so hard.

"No, bbbbbbut wait, kemah is only cool in that way that Santa Monica Pier is cool, YO" Neither are cool.

Still haven't answered any of the questions from before. Here's another: what places do you think have people that are cool to you? Who's not trying too hard, and who's "real" in your opinion?

[Pumapayam]

Still haven't answered any of the questions from before. Here's another: what places do you think have people that are cool to you? Who's not trying too hard, and who's "real" in your opinion?

None of the recent cast are real, it looks more like auditions for up and coming actors.

[PureAuteur]

I've been to many, many places outside of Texas. Houston has more urbane variety than San Diego. No ifs and buts.

Well, you see, when you go to downtown Houston...at least all the times I've partied there...all sorts of cool Asians meander about, lining up at nightclubs. I just have never seen that all the times I wander the Gas Lamp. Token Asian here or there...

So in San Diego, there are Asians there, but where are the nocturnal masses? Houston's Asian population is something similar to San Diego's: around the 200,000 to 300,000 number, give or take. But that's right. Filipinos are the majority of San Diego's number and they choose not to make the San Diego Gas Lamp a hip pan-Asian spot the way other Asians do in Houston.

I'm of Filipino descent and I do castigate my ancestors when all they want to do is hang out at Filipino places (San Diego, San Diego is where it's at) while Asians in Houston like to mix it up where the cool people are. I love it.

I mean c'mon. The people in the Gas Lamp are so unhip. Military boys, military boys...Fred and Ida from Kansas all over the Gas Lamp. For a Pacific city, it's generally just white folks enjoying the Gas Lamp.

In Houston, black folks partied at the Red Cat...Asians at Spy...Latinos as Azure...the resultant sidewalk action was certainly more diverse than the usual frat-military-midwest stuff of downtown San Diego.

Hillcrest is a wash with Montrose in terms of demography. But they're both cool. I like the urban vibe of Hillcrest as much as like the Montrose's textured neighborhood vibe.

Downtown Houston is not as touristy in volume or temporal activity as the Gas Lamp...but it is far sexier to me. I lived in downtown San Diego for a few months...I also worked in downtown Houston for seven years. I kinda know both areas. In terms of character, downtown Houston is much more open-faced. There is no high culture in downtown San Diego. There is not the freewheeling cool set of the downtown tunnels in San Diego (tourists, more tourists and flip flop bunnies, whoo hoo!).

But if hipness is such a factor in Real World appeal...well, unhip San Diego got one.

To me it's all a beauty contest. These TV media makers, so uncreative, only want the typical touristy scenes. But Houston's activity in the downtown tunnels, the Med Center, the Galleria, Rice Village, downtown at night, Montrose cafes at night, Kemah, Galveston...all these scenes offer some of the tourist tv cliches as well as something different for tv. But folks just want to be so down on Houston just because.

And to query your remark, what is so uncool about the people from Houston? This is a city made up of folks who come from India, Manhattan, Los Angeles, Vietnam, Taiwan, Pakistan, Japan, Louisiana, Chicago, Nigeria, Lebanon, Iran, Mexico, Miami....

As my first post on this thread, I first want to say that not having a Real World in Houston is a GOOD thing. That show is garbage. It doesn't matter what city it is set in. The show always completely disregards the city in its efforts to showcase the same recycled script of white trash bickering and sexual escapades. Do you honestly think that setting the show in Houston would be like something on the Travel channel? Plus the editing is so A.D.D., you don't even have time to look at a certain area of town or certain place in the city before they cut to another place or show people moving in fast forward.

WorldlyMan- you are pretty accurate about the Asian population of San Diego being around 200,000, but you have to realize that the city established its identity long before the Asian population arrived in large numbers. It has a distinct local culture, and a large population of native San Diegans, and they want their downtown to be a certain way. The Asian population is free to embrace it and contribute to it, or feel alienated by it. Downtown San Diego definitely has a prevalent white presence, so maybe they just feel uncomfortable with that, whereas Houston has more of an even balance of ethnic groups to make each one feel secure enough to show up to the nightlife scene in large numbers. As for the military boys, I saw a few, but they really didn't seem to dominate the scene. I saw mostly small groups of friends, young couples out on dates, and then older adults and middle aged adults out for a night on the town. I saw mostly whites, but other ethnic groups as well.

Houston would be hip if it was a smaller city and had more native Houstonians everywhere. Everything is so spread out. What makes it un-hip is a lack of identity and a distinct culture. It's really just a melting pot of everything, so while there will always be plenty to do, it's hard to consider it hip. I've visited all over Houston and there are only certain areas/neighborhoods that I would call hip. Main Street downtown has potential, and it is definitely more welcoming of other ethnic groups, such as Asian, but the majority of the people just don't have what I'd call a "hip" attitude. There seems to be a hostile vibe, where you wouldn't want to look at someone the wrong way or you try to be careful about what you say to strangers you encounter as you are out doing the nightlife thing. Another thing is that Main Street seems to attract mostly the 20s/30s scene. You don't see too many people in their 40s and 50s; just here and there. So, basically, Niche and MidTowner are right. It's all about disposition and your attitude. If all of Houston's ethnic groups would mesh as "Houstonians" enjoying their city, then you might have some of the ingredients of a hip city.

[lockmat]

Like my dad always said, "Houston is a working town"

Not that others aren't of course.

[MiDTOWNeR]

There seems to be a hostile vibe, where you wouldn't want to look at someone the wrong way or you try to be careful about what you say to strangers you encounter as you are out doing the nightlife thing.

AMEN to that! Everyone seems so unhappy or pissed off. Very uninviting.

[PureAuteur]

AMEN to that! Everyone seems so unhappy or pissed off. Very uninviting.

Yet at the same time, Houston has some of the friendliest and warmest people, you just don't see them in large numbers going out to night clubs. That's a different side of the city altogether. If you want to see Houston's warm side, you have to go to community, church, or work related events and activities. Why can't the friendliness that exists in these contexts be present in public situations as well?

[Hunter]

Maybe this new "Houston High" on MTV can make up for Houston being skipped over every season for The Real World. I mean really.....Houston is the largest city in the country without having a "Real World" season. Plus.....the Dallas/Ft. Worth and Houston metros are the largest in the country with out a "Real World".

MTV likes using cast members from Houston in The Real World and in many other reality shows. So why can't we get a season? It could certainly boost our city's image in the eyes of popular culture.

I'll admit, Austin was a great season and an ideal place to place "7 young strangers". I also know that since Austin, the chances of the show returining to Texas soon is really slim (but then again....they've been to Califorina 4 times, NY twice, and Florida twice), especially with other cities, such as Atlanta,Phoenix, Detroit, Portland, and D.C. seeking a season. MTV probably won't venture outside of the U.S. soon because of the Paris and London failures.

Anyways, what should happen?

Why will they not come to houston! Because we are a little to real for the general masses. And that it is in a NUT shell!

[DJ V Lawrence]

AMEN to that! Everyone seems so unhappy or pissed off. Very uninviting.

I've yet to see that or experience that since I've been back. What area of town is this? I also saw Port Arthur's post:

Yet at the same time, Houston has some of the friendliest and warmest people, you just don't see them in large numbers going out to night clubs. That's a different side of the city altogether. If you want to see Houston's warm side, you have to go to community, church, or work related events and activities. Why can't the friendliness that exists in these contexts be present in public situations as well?

Everytime I've gone clubbing in Houston since May '06, (Downtown, Richmond/Westheimer), I've had nothing but positive vibes, people stopping by and shaking hands, occasional dancing in the sidewalk, and nothing but a good time. Prior to me moving out of country (2001), there was violence every other night when I walked up in the club, and people were flat-out snubbish. But I've yet to recieve the cold shoulder from anyone on the nightscene since coming back thus far.

I've only been Midtown twice for clubbing this past Summer, and though I wasn't allowed in because my friends weren't "wearing the right shoes", people were still stopping me and starting conversations as to what the Midtown vibe was like, as if they could already tell that I was a Midtown first-timer. If it weren't for that, I would've had no idea what Midtown was all about, because none of that stuff was there before I left Houston.

(None of this is made up; I'm for real. But it sounds like too totally different Houston-vibes that we've been experiencing)

What area of town has given you the most hassle in Houston in terms of nightlife? Or does it seem to be the same negative vibes for you throughout?

[PureAuteur]

I've yet to see that or experience that since I've been back. What area of town is this? I also saw Port Arthur's post:

Everytime I've gone clubbing in Houston since May '06, (Downtown, Richmond/Westheimer), I've had nothing but positive vibes, people stopping by and shaking hands, occasional dancing in the sidewalk, and nothing but a good time. Prior to me moving out of country (2001), there was violence every other night when I walked up in the club, and people were flat-out snubbish. But I've yet to recieve the cold shoulder from anyone on the nightscene since coming back thus far.

I've only been Midtown twice for clubbing this past Summer, and though I wasn't allowed in because my friends weren't "wearing the right shoes", people were still stopping me and starting conversations as to what the Midtown vibe was like, as if they could already tell that I was a Midtown first-timer. If it weren't for that, I would've had no idea what Midtown was all about, because none of that stuff was there before I left Houston.

(None of this is made up; I'm for real. But it sounds like too totally different Houston-vibes that we've been experiencing)

What area of town has given you the most hassle in Houston in terms of nightlife? Or does it seem to be the same negative vibes for you throughout?

I haven't had any specific bad experiences while going out, but just a feeling of discomfort sometimes. It really depends on who is out and about. Sometimes I get a good feeling and other times, not so good. One thing is for sure, I don't feel hip when I'm going out in Houston. I've been to some clubs where people are so uncool that's it's painful to be in there. It has nothing to do with clothing or the club's decor, but just an intuitive feeling about everyone's disposition that can't really be explained, but only noticed. I still like going downtown, especially to the Flying Saucer, which is a great downtown bar. I just wish the night life scene were more sophisticated, with less hostility. There's lots of good partiers, but still plenty of trouble makers and idiots to ruin the vibe.

[Toggle3]

Hip and trendy? That isn't valid criteria for a city....vapid more like.

Houston doesn't need a real world anything, it needs English-speakers and world-class talent. Smart and productive beats hip and trendy anyday.