[dbigtex56]

Tonight one of the employees of New Orleans Po' Boys spotted me in Fiesta and told me that today was their last day, and that the restaurant would not be reopening. I'm very sorry to see it go. The oyster loaf po' boy was legendary, and a traditional diner-type of breakfast could be had cheaply. (This is that sort of Googie looking 50's diner with the unique green, yellow and red color scheme.)


That section of Main Street is turning into a ghost town - the only businesses left between Alabama and Richmond are Sears and that little fire sale store.

[houstonmacbro]

seems like the metro (rail) can make or break a business.

[musicman]

dbigtex56, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 1:08am, said:

Tonight one of the employees of New Orleans Po' Boys spotted me in Fiesta and told me that today was their last day, and that the restaurant would not be reopening. I'm very sorry to see it go. The oyster loaf po' boy was legendary, and a traditional diner-type of breakfast could be had cheaply. (This is that sort of Googie looking 50's diner with the unique green, yellow and red color scheme.)
That section of Main Street is turning into a ghost town - the only businesses left between Alabama and Richmond are Sears and that little fire sale store.

I'm in shock! I just went there 2 weeks ago. Just hate to see a longtime business such as this go. With all the cross streets closed in the area, it definitely has limited access.

[The Great Hizzy!]

The bigger issue for them was that there wasn't much vehicular traffic in the area (still isn't) and anyone who might have considered using the rail to go there found that the stations just didn't offer quick access to the location. You had to walk at least four blocks in either direction.

It's too bad, although I've never been there personally. The good news, if there's any, is that these lots are being cleared up so that new residential would seem to be less challenging--not saying that it will definitely happen, just that you have enough in the way of continuous unused lots to build a Post-Midtown type mini-neighborhood if you had the gumption. In this, you might see the benefits of rail, as a resident would be far more willing to walk four blocks to a rail station than someone who's on their lunchbreak.

This post has been edited by The Great Hizzy!: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 9:39 AM

[MidtownCoog]

No way!

We eat lunch there every other week and they are always busy. A easy rail trip from downtown.

That old man is crazy. Did he kick the bucket?

That'd be the only reason I see them closing. I think his daugheter works the register.

[sevfiv]

thats too bad - i wonder what the reason is?
well, one less neat place to go in houston... :closedeyes:

[The Great Hizzy!]

Quote

We eat lunch there every other week and they are always busy. A easy rail trip from downtown.

Do you all get off at HCC/Ensemble? What is that, ,like a 5-7 minute walk or so?

[MidtownCoog]

Yes. Less than five. It's not bad at all.

You can stop in Sig's Lagoon and cool off for a bit if it gets too hot.

We did skip the first couple weeks of August.

[musicman]

The Great Hizzy!, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:38am, said:

The bigger issue for them was that there wasn't much vehicular traffic in the area (still isn't) and anyone who might have considered using the rail to go there found that the stations just didn't offer quick access to the location. You had to walk at least four blocks in either direction.

less vehicular traffic because main cross streets are closed. new orleans po boys is two full blocks from the ensemble/hcc station (southbouth) and three(northbound). The consultant hired by the City at the "urban village" workshop a few weeks ago said people will walk 1/4 mile to their destination. Definitely shorter than a 1/4 mile.

[houstonmacbro]

people in houston do not want to walk anywhere. much less 1/4 mile in 95 degree weather.

[musicman]

MidtownCoog, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:56am, said:

Yes. Less than five. It's not bad at all.

You can stop in Sig's Lagoon and cool off for a bit if it gets too hot.

We did skip the first couple weeks of August.

i agree not bad all all. if someone has to rest at Sig's then they must be missing a leg or something.

This post has been edited by musicman: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 10:02 AM

[MidtownCoog]

I am people!

[ToolMan]

This sucks! What's next to close...Breakfast Club?

[feufoma]

That's too bad. I just don't understand why development hasn't taken off along Main Street. If this was any other city I bet that there'd be much more going on (yet another CVS doesn't cut it). People can't walk a few blocks?? People in Houston are so warped... It's frustrating when you see what's happening in so many other places that are smaller and have less tax revenue. It's time for the city and metro to step up to the plate and offer some incentives to spur (proper, truly urban) development. Moreover, the city really needs to work with property owners in keeping the area clean. Otherwise I just see the whole area stagnating even further. I'm just not getting a very positive vibe from recent developments in Houston. A few years back and things were seemingly improving. However, it appears to have been nothing but pipe dreams.

[MidtownCoog]

Who owns the surrounding moon-scape on the southwest side of Alabama? It's super-block for lack of a better term, but it sure ain't super.

It's so Mad-Max. Those abandoned lots are such eye sores.

[WesternGulf]

All of Main through Midtown needs help. The only property on that street that could spark something as far as the area it is located in is the Isabella.

[dbigtex56]

MidtownCoog, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:39am, said:

No way!

We eat lunch there every other week and they are always busy. A easy rail trip from downtown.

That old man is crazy. Did he kick the bucket?

That'd be the only reason I see them closing. I think his daugheter works the register.

According to this article Pete Hope is 79 years old. He looked plenty alive last Friday. And if he's crazy, the world would be a better place if it had more crazy people. Check out his role in supporting The Men's Center. The man has done a lot of good for the community.

Interestingly, although Pete owns a lot of property in that area, HCAD lists the restaurant property's owner as South Main Baptist Church.

[houstonmacbro]

ToolMan, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 10:51am, said:

This sucks! What's next to close...Breakfast Club?

not with the lines i've seen there. never been during the week, but the weekends are jammed.

[MidtownCoog]

I mean Crazy as a compliment.

And yes, he looked fine when I was there a couple of weeks ago.

[RedScare]

houstonmacbro, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:59am, said:

people in houston do not want to walk anywhere. much less 1/4 mile in 95 degree weather.

Speak for yourself. I walk all over downtown, many times 8 to 10 blocks. And I do it in a suit. The "people won't walk 4 blocks" statement is a myth. Perhaps, in the suburbs, where nothing is really within 4 blocks, but not in downtown. If you doubt me, go to the next Astros home game and watch the number of people walking from Main Street and Preston Station to the game. That's 6 blocks.

And, as for blocked cross streets? Please. It is much tougher to get to Thelma's, and no one stops going there. I swear, if there is a traffic jam in Dallas, some people would blame it on the Main Street rail.

[houstonmacbro]

yeah, i guess i am thinking the 'burbs. i can't walk to much of anything.

[TheNiche]

RedScare, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 4:07pm, said:

Speak for yourself. I walk all over downtown, many times 8 to 10 blocks. And I do it in a suit. The "people won't walk 4 blocks" statement is a myth. Perhaps, in the suburbs, where nothing is really within 4 blocks, but not in downtown. If you doubt me, go to the next Astros home game and watch the number of people walking from Main Street and Preston Station to the game. That's 6 blocks.

And, as for blocked cross streets? Please. It is much tougher to get to Thelma's, and no one stops going there. I swear, if there is a traffic jam in Dallas, some people would blame it on the Main Street rail.

The Astro-walk argument swings both ways. On the one hand, you can cite people that walk 6 blocks (0.4 miles), but look at how much money that so many people are willing to pay in order to avoid walking that distance, too.

As with most aspects of humanity, people's willingness to walk various distances is a variable that has a mean and a standard deviation. There is no one-size-fits-all measurement, although for the purposes of calculating a typical market area for pedestrian traffic, 1/4 mile is a good huristic. Of course, even the 1/4-mile rule most likely doesn't translate well between a small pedestrian-oriented shop that is open 8 to 12 hours per day and an Astros game that draws tens of thousands of people at once.

[houstonmacbro]

i guess i am talking about regular ole houston 'folk' who would rather get in their car at the galleria parking garage than walk across the street to barnes and noble. i know people like that and it seems to be endemic to houston because we are so accustomed to driving everywhere.

[RedScare]

houstonmacbro, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 5:32pm, said:

i guess i am talking about regular ole houston 'folk' who would rather get in their car at the galleria parking garage than walk across the street to barnes and noble. i know people like that and it seems to be endemic to houston because we are so accustomed to driving everywhere.

I agree that a person travelling to the Galleria will likely get back into her car to drive to the store across the street. However, that can generally be attributed to mindset. If you need to go to the store in the suburbs, your mindset is that you will be driving. Even if you only need to cross the street to the strip mall, you'll move your car over there. The Galleria has a suburban type layout, causing the mind to react similarly.

However, if you are downtown, the mind reacts differently. You are more likely to park, then walk to various destinations. I believe it has to do with the mind believing that parking is harder to come by downtown, prompting one to believe walking is simpler than driving. In a suburban setting, the mind is conditioned to believe that driving is simpler than walking. It can be overcome by designing developments to encourage walking, but often it is not.

Depending on the situation, one may prefer walking or driving. Few people are so lazy as to never walk, or to avoid going somewhere if it involves a walk. More often, the situation dictates the preference. People driving in for a game, as Niche pointed out, who have no intention of doing anything else, generally park as close as possible to the stadium. Those who plan to make a night of it, often will park near the bars and restaurants, to be closer to the final destination. Still others come by train to avoid paying ridiculous parking rates for a 3 hour game.

Considering that 40% of downtown workers take some form of mass transit, the rail likely helped Po Boys, rather than hurt it, by increasing the number of potential customers who can reach the store. Mass transit riders know walking is part of the equation. A 2 to 3 block walk from a rail stop is not going to faze them.

[musicman]

RedScare, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 4:07pm, said:

And, as for blocked cross streets? Please. It is much tougher to get to Thelma's, and no one stops going there. I swear, if there is a traffic jam in Dallas, some people would blame it on the Main Street rail.

If you're talking Thelma's BBQ they have much easier access.

[TheNiche]

RedScare, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 6:16pm, said:

Depending on the situation, one may prefer walking or driving. Few people are so lazy as to never walk, or to avoid going somewhere if it involves a walk. More often, the situation dictates the preference. People driving in for a game, as Niche pointed out, who have no intention of doing anything else, generally park as close as possible to the stadium. Those who plan to make a night of it, often will park near the bars and restaurants, to be closer to the final destination. Still others come by train to avoid paying ridiculous parking rates for a 3 hour game.

A lot of folks will also help themselves to free parallel parking after 6:00PM. I've always had good luck parking at the old courthouse and walking from there. I'm just ridiculously frugal, is all. But then, I'm just part of a thoroughly-segmented market.

If parking were not a scarce resource, so that it was free or very nearly free, I think that you'd find that very few people would walk at all. This is the situation that is prevalent in the suburbs on account of having lots of land that is less expensive. This is really much more an economic model accounting for people's cost-minimization techniques than it is a matter of mindset.

RedScare, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 6:16pm, said:

Considering that 40% of downtown workers take some form of mass transit, the rail likely helped Po Boys, rather than hurt it, by increasing the number of potential customers who can reach the store. Mass transit riders know walking is part of the equation. A 2 to 3 block walk from a rail stop is not going to faze them.

Where did you find the "40%" figure? I'd be interested in reviewing your source. Does it state how that is divided between types of mass transit (i.e. Rail, Busses, P&R, Trolley, Car/Van Pooling, etc.)?

In any case, I can assure you that not 40% of downtown's workers commute via LRT past NO Poboy. Of those that did commute via LRT, most would've originally been commuting via bus routes that have since been eliminated. Moreover, the placement of the LRT infrastructure did hurt NO Poboy's accessibility. The owner was quoted in the Chronicle as far back as a couple years ago complaining about how the LRT hurt his business.

danax, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:06pm, said:

Walking downtown is...more like paddling a canoe down the Amazon to get to your next spot, whereas in less interesting areas, it's like going from one airport to another.

Huh?

[musicman]

The owner was just on the ch 26 news. He did state that accessibility killed his business. He heard repeatedly that it was too difficult to get to the establishment. BTW he did mention his rent is 5000/month.

This post has been edited by musicman: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 9:17 PM

[sevfiv]

danax, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:06pm, said:

Walking downtown is...more like paddling a canoe down the Amazon to get to your next spot, whereas in less interesting areas, it's like going from one airport to another.

TheNiche, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:12pm, said:

Huh?

danax, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:24pm, said:

I'm saying that getting from Point A to Point B in a place like DT is an adventure, like canoeing the Amazon. You'll arrive, maybe sweaty and slightly winded but the trip itself could be the best part.
If you're going from Suburban Point A to Suburban Point B the same distance away, you have no compelling reason to walk so the trip is like a flight between airports; getting it over as quickly as possible.

maybe the concrete has already set on this one, but danax's analogy isn't off to me - there is alot to see downtown on foot that would never be seen in a vehicle.

This post has been edited by sevfiv: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 at 10:57 PM

[RedScare]

TheNiche, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:12pm, said:

This is really much more an economic model accounting for people's cost-minimization techniques than it is a matter of mindset.

No. It's not. It has to do with the fact that it is too far to walk from your house to the store. But, knock yourself out with the economics.


BTW, the 40% figure is quoted often. Google it.

[TheNiche]

danax, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:24pm, said:

Huh?
I'm saying that getting from Point A to Point B in a place like DT is an adventure, like canoeing the Amazon. You'll arrive, maybe sweaty and slightly winded but the trip itself could be the best part.
If you're going from Suburban Point A to Suburban Point B the same distance away, you have no compelling reason to walk so the trip is like a flight between airports; getting it over as quickly as possible.

Thanks for the clarification. With the exception of June 2001, I just couldn't make that connection.

musicman, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:16pm, said:

BTW he did mention his rent is 5000/month.

Gee, I wonder whether his rent went up recently?

Seems like LRT has this knack of killing off businesses, if not in the construction process, or by faults of design, then by drastically-inflated land values. Its no wonder that Richmond business owners don't much care for it. What's worse, I'd be willing to bet money that this lot will sit vacant for many years before anybody even talks about doing anything with it.

RedScare, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 10:36pm, said:

No. It's not. It has to do with the fact that it is too far to walk from your house to the store. But, knock yourself out with the economics.
BTW, the 40% figure is quoted often. Google it.

Too far to the store, you say? No kidding.

Stop citing sourceless hearsay and give me data that is valid to the matter at hand.

[houstonmacbro]

musicman, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 9:16pm, said:

The owner was just on the ch 26 news. He did state that accessibility killed his business. He heard repeatedly that it was too difficult to get to the establishment. BTW he did mention his rent is 5000/month.

i would have thought he owned his space by now. guess we can't always make assumptions.

[MidtownCoog]

I don't have much hope for those barren stetches of Main through Midtown.

I propse we turn them into a combination park and ice house.

Then people would be ablt to get there.

[ricco67]

You know, I don't buy his argument that rail killed his store.

If he had such a dedicated group of people, they would have made it there on a regular basis and perhaps would have made his place a bit more appealing. It's located on one of the few left turns allowed ONTO main street. Word of mouth can only take you so far.

I've heard it was a great place, but the place looked a bit seedy to me and the place wouldn't have appealed to those that are simply driving by.

[musicman]

I don't think he was arguing but rather was only making a statement. I remember his place was a zoo esp at lunch. He did say his regular customers called and said it was just too difficult to get there now. As to being seedy, if you're afraid, then there are many GREAT places you'll be missing out on!

[sevfiv]

musicman, on Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 @ 1:14pm, said:

He did say his regular customers called and said it was just too difficult to get there now.

that seems incredibly lame to me...

[RedScare]

ricco67, on Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 @ 12:39pm, said:

You know, I don't buy his argument that rail killed his store.

I don't buy it either. 5 years after they started construction, and 3 years after the line opens, people FINALLY decided the strain was too much? So, they call him up and TELL him? Who the hell does that? And, what kind of wimp can't get to his store? Not a very loyal customer, if that is true.

I think the poor 79 year old man is just tired after all these years. Restaurants are a tough business. Maybe he is just ready to retire.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I can't say if some of his customers said this or not but if they did, it does come across as fairly wimpy. It's not like you have to detour down to Galveston and then hike it back. It's a simple matter of figuring out how to cross the rail line from the East or South.

[sevfiv]

here is the video from 26: link

finally - fox's web site went live!

[MidtownCoog]

Rail enabled me to get there more frequently since I only drive to work once a week.

But he's still crazy.

The place was "cash only". How many people carry cash anymore? Maybe taking credit cards could hvae increase his business.

[musicman]

MidtownCoog, on Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 @ 2:27pm, said:

Rail enabled me to get there more frequently since I only drive to work once a week.

But he's still crazy.

The place was "cash only". How many people carry cash anymore? Maybe taking credit cards could hvae increase his business.

The "cash only" thing is surprising there but I frequent a couple of places that are cash only so i guess it's not unique.

[KinkaidAlum]

Back when it looked like I would be moving back to Houston, a business partner and I looked at a potential retail space at the Isabella Court. We spent hours at the New Orleans Po-Boy shop eating and watching.

For us, we were RELIEVED to see just how many people were walking from the Ensemble Station to the Po Boy place at lunch time. Many were obviously employees of the Med Center since they were wearing their scrubs. He had lines at lunch for almost two solid hours on every day of the week that we went to check it out.

Additionally, it was VERY easy to get to his restaurant by car. If you were driving from downtown, you'd just head South on Main. If you were coming from points west (Montrose), you could take a right onto Main from West Alabama. Parking was quite plentiful in the lot and on the side streets (Isabella St comes to mind).

I simply don't buy it that rail killed his business. Business appeared to be so strong, that we were all set to sign a lease at the Isabella but we lost out to a gallery owner who has apparently done quite well right across the street from New Orleans!!!!!

[houstonmacbro]

sevfiv, on Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 @ 2:24pm, said:

here is the video from 26: link

finally - fox's web site went live!

i am accessing their site and it is incredibly slow (at least downloading the video portion) ... i have cable and it's 1 a.m. ... would think it would be quicker.

KinkaidAlum, on Wednesday, September 13th, 2006 @ 11:53pm, said:

Back when it looked like I would be moving back to Houston, a business partner and I looked at a potential retail space at the Isabella Court. We spent hours at the New Orleans Po-Boy shop eating and watching.

For us, we were RELIEVED to see just how many people were walking from the Ensemble Station to the Po Boy place at lunch time. Many were obviously employees of the Med Center since they were wearing their scrubs. He had lines at lunch for almost two solid hours on every day of the week that we went to check it out.

Additionally, it was VERY easy to get to his restaurant by car. If you were driving from downtown, you'd just head South on Main. If you were coming from points west (Montrose), you could take a right onto Main from West Alabama. Parking was quite plentiful in the lot and on the side streets (Isabella St comes to mind).

I simply don't buy it that rail killed his business. Business appeared to be so strong, that we were all set to sign a lease at the Isabella but we lost out to a gallery owner who has apparently done quite well right across the street from New Orleans!!!!!

i can believe it ... to be honest the rail scares me a bit when i am in a car. on foot it's fine.

i sometimes don't know when it is safe to go, etc. and turning seems to be an issue as well seeing that you cannot turn meaning, often you have to cicle a block and hit the rail intersection from another street.

not saying that rail killed his business, but it probably made it more difficult to reach. people are creatures of habit and if it is even slightly more difficult/hassle to do something often (i do this too) we'll just do something else.

example: i love burritos. i like chipotle burritos, but when i moved from westchase (and the burrito bros @ westheimer near royal oaks country club) it is more difficult to get to the one on gm1960. i am closer to i45 and they are way down near willowbrook. as much as i would love a burrito sometimes, i just do not go, because i do not want to battle traffic on 1960 and it's just plain too far. do THEY miss my business? no. but for a small company like nola po'boys, a loss of customers (say 30 - 50 percent) could be detrimental.

[houstonmacbro]

morons.

and generally though i dislike fox (national) right-ish slant, i love their local news, weather and traffic coverage.

[dbigtex56]

danax, on Tuesday, September 12th, 2006 @ 7:24pm, said:

If you're going from Suburban Point A to Suburban Point B the same distance away, you have no compelling reason to walk so the trip is like a flight between airports; getting it over as quickly as possible.

Not only is walking between Suburban Point A to Suburban point B unappealing, sometimes it's downright difficult. For example, there's no clear path for people who enter or exit the Galleria from Westheimer. Pedestrians are obligated to wend their way through an unmarked parking lot and squeeze through a small gap by the parking garage. It really sucks.

Likewise, crossing the street on foot in many suburban areas ought to be classified as an Extreme Sport. Due to a lack of crosswalks and inattentive drivers, it should not be attempted by anyone who feels he still has something to live for.

[houstonmacbro]

the car-culture (necessity?) here is mostly to blame. but yeah, you're right about the galleria. there is really no 'pedestrian' thought for those outside of the mall. i've always thought there should be a really nice skywalk to take you over to the other side of westheimer.