Sawyer Heights Village Developments

[HeightsGuy]

Really? It looked to me more along the size of the San Felipe location. I probably just haven't looked at it close enough. I've never been a fan of any big box grocery department. Every time I've ever grocery shopped at either Target or Walmart I get a feeling in my gut that I spent more than I would have at a traditional grocery store.

[west20th]

Really? It looked to me more along the size of the San Felipe location. I probably just haven't looked at it close enough. I've never been a fan of any big box grocery department. Every time I've ever grocery shopped at either Target or Walmart I get a feeling in my gut that I spent more than I would have at a traditional grocery store.

Not to mention you walked twice as far to get the groceries and waited twice as long in line to check-out. I hope it is patterned after the San Felipe store.

[cwrm4]

This one is a standard-issue Super Target.

From everything I've heard it is only going to be a regular Target.

I'm still hacked that they apparently aren't leaving space for any trees to the parking lot...

[heights_yankee]

The one on San Felipe is kind of a hybrid, wouldn't you say? Some food but not a full grocery department... Not that Target and Whole Foods even sell the same thing. People would shop at Target for convenience and price. People shop at Whole Foods for.... principle (I don't know if that's the right word, but it's definitely not price).

I heard the rumor Saturday from a woman who lives in The Heights. She works in the liqur biz, which is only peripherally related but I thought it carried more weight than someone who works at, say, an IT recruiting firm like I do...

[MidtownCoog]

Not that Target and Whole Foods even sell the same thing.

That's not the point. It's the surrounding area. There are still more po folk in The Heights than the tony Whole Foods crowd.

[HeightsGuy]

That's not the point. It's the surrounding area. There are still more po folk in The Heights than the tony Whole Foods crowd.

You are forgetting Whole Food's other demographics. Trust me, there are enough Vegetarians and Eco-Friendly people in the Heights to support a Whole Foods. On a sunny Sunday drive through the Heights you can still see hacky sacks bouncing off Birkenstocks in abundance. Myself, I would love to see a Whole Foods take over HEB's old space on 11th.

[MidtownCoog]

Don't hold your breath.

[heights_yankee]

That's not the point. It's the surrounding area. There are still more po folk in The Heights than the tony Whole Foods crowd.

I know lots of Po Folk who will shop at Whole Foods. They want organic or whole wheat or whatever...

Anyway, lots of RO people would come to that center, not to mention all the downtowners and midtowners who are sick of dealing with the heavy West U crowd traffic at the other location.

We know you're just a cynic, Coog (esp about the Heights).

[MidtownCoog]

Call me when Whole Foods Heights opens, and I'll buy you some wagyu.

[houstonray]

I'm pretty sure it's a regular Target as well. According to the Prop Commerce website, it's only listed as "Target" whereas the actual Supers are listed as "SuperTarget". Square footage size, it's a bit smaller actually than a regular Target that is next to my office in the 'burbs.

As for the Whole Foods rumor,l I heard the same thing Of course, I also heard 'scaled down Central Market' awhile back as well, so who knows. I'd love any grocery store, but not so sure we'll get one.

[mistergreen]

I'm actually kind of amazed that there has not been any other businesses announcing participation in this development yet. I'm told it is not going to be a Super Target. This is good as far as I'm concerned.

The street improvements are coming along nicely... esplanades have been cut out, curbs and sidewalks going in. Rumor has it that it should be pretty nicely landscaped.

The lights are on in the parking lot areas now.... wow, really bright. Those homeowners holding out are now bathed in sodium vapor. It's going to be a different vibe having all that stuff over there... but I guess grin and bear it is the way to go.

Looking forward to the street repairs though.

[HoustonMidtown]

I stopped by the "In Town Homes" trailer on Washington (near Sawyer) last weekend to talk to the realtors and find out what houses they are marketing in the area. They have bought almost all the land from Washington northward/Sawyer eastward (not all of it of course - but alot of it) - they will be tearing down the old warehouses and will be building homes on them over the next couple of years....if you want to buy a house with good potential for appreciation - this would be the time.....they are in the high 100's and low 200s right now....

[NYC Texan2]

I have to say that the info from Intown Homes confirms for me that we should be bullish on this area... The only major groceries available to the Heights are the Kroger at Sheperd / 11th and another Kroger on Yale / 20th. Some people go to the Kroger on West Gray just to get a more upscale selection. A good grocery in Sawyer Heights would draw a ton of Heights traffic.

Also, the Sawyer site makes sense for a grocer, since it will be nearly impossible to put together that site acreage north of I-10.

It does sound like other retailers are holding out to see how the Target does, though, doesn't it? That seems unusual.

[MidtownCoog]

That seems unusual.

Considering The Heights is quite often anit-everything, who can blame them?

Not that even consider this Target to be in The Heights. Even if it really is.

[NYC Texan2]

You have to be kidding, Coog. First, go right across I-10 and you are in the middle of Woodland Heights. The Heights goes down to Washington, at least in the traditional maps of Heights Blvd.

Second, even the mix of cars driving in the Heights has changed--lots of BMers, etc., compared to even a couple years ago. The Chase Bank at Washington and Studemont is a recognition that the demographics have changed dramatically.

One of the traditional drawbacks to the Heights has historically been the lack of retail. The Target and a new grocery would help that perception considerably. People want the Target, especially as an anchor for the eastern side of the Heights. No one is crying about losing a bunch of warehouses that helped to make the Heights an urban island.

[wendyps]

Not that even consider this Target to be in The Heights. Even if it really is.

No, I wouldn't call this area the Heights. I think it is sometimes referred to as Brooksmith (incidentally, I need to start another thread about the homes in this area...where as they are mostly very run down, they are gorgeous...exact same style as you see in the 6th ward). I think it might even be formally the 6th ward, but only a small group of streets gets that designation today.

That doesn't change the fact though that it will be greatly appreciated by people who live in the Heights. We get all the benefit of having convenient retail nearby, without having to have it directly in our "hood". I do believe that if they put any sort of grocery store there, it would do very well. Not only having the benefit of being the only store in the area (Heights and all along the washington corridor) but with the bonus convenience of a Target nearby. I know that supporting local retail is important, but sometimes, you just want to get all your errands done as fast as possible!

[cwrm4]

Perhaps Houston should try an experiment in the application of zoning regulations and basic urban planning for the area surrounding the next Target, as it is, after all, one of the last prime areas of undeveloped land (after the warehouses are demo'd) near downtown.

Otherwise, people will be on this forum in 25 years whining about how a previous generation haphazardly developed this area and how that is resulting in its decline. "'It is better than what is there now' were the words used to justify the redevelopment of that area back in the '00s."

[MidtownCoog]

Yea, even Star Pizza is in "The Heights".

But you sure don't feel "The Heights" on that side of I-10. Just like Midtown used to be Third Ward (before 288) and whatever it was before Pierce Elevated.

[gnu]

No, I wouldn't call this area the Heights. I think it is sometimes referred to as Brooksmith (incidentally, I need to start another thread about the homes in this area...where as they are mostly very run down, they are gorgeous...exact same style as you see in the 6th ward). I think it might even be formally the 6th ward, but only a small group of streets gets that designation today.

Brooke Smith is north of N.main, east of Airline, south of Cavalcade, and W. of I-45.

The Target location would probably be considered 1st Ward.

I think the dividing line between Sixth and First was Washington Ave.

According to HCAD, the remaining house plats around the Target are in Oak Terrace. but i am sure no one would call it that

all the stuff south of the RR tracks to Washington and to the east is in Shearn which is definately 1st Ward.

Maybe it could be called Heights Freeway

That doesn't change the fact though that it will be greatly appreciated by people who live in the Heights. We get all the benefit of having convenient retail nearby, without having to have it directly in our "hood". I do believe that if they put any sort of grocery store there, it would do very well. Not only having the benefit of being the only store in the area (Heights and all along the washington corridor) but with the bonus convenience of a Target nearby. I know that supporting local retail is important, but sometimes, you just want to get all your errands done as fast as possible!

i agree

[RedScare]

According to Sandra Gunn, this is the description of the 6 wards.

"The First Ward is the area to the northwest of the downtown central business district (CBD). Located in what would today be called the

[HeightsGuy]

According to Sandra Gunn, this is the description of the 6 wards.

"The First Ward is the area to the northwest of the downtown central business district (CBD). Located in what would today be called the

[native_Houstonian]

Has anyone driven in the parking lot of the new Target yet? I drove in last night to a rather weird sight. There are 2 old houses that are smack-dab in the middle of the parking lot! It is the oddest thing! Does anyone know the story here? Were the owners holding out for more money? Were they waiting for someone's lease to be up?

By the way, it looked like they were starting to put up shelving in the store last night.

[nmainguy]

I asked this same question to a salesperson at In-town homes (as we just purchased one of the new townhomes), and she informed me that they simply did not want to give up their land. I am surprised they were allowed to stay, but it does make for an interesting parking lot!

No one "allowed" them to stay. They choose not to sell.

[houstonray]

Have y'all seen the Property Commerce website for Sawyer Heights? It has changed yet again, alot less retail space and lots more "food" locations. BUT, on the NE corner of the property, can someone explain what all those buildings are? There is a parking GARAGE in the middle of it?!? Apts? Condos? It certainly has changed from the original plan which included a bunch of retail outbuildings with space for dozens of smaller businesses, and now there seems to be alot less.

From what I see, this certainly doesn't look like what they described as "THE inner loop shopping destination" before they broke ground...

It gets curiouser and curiouser! :-)

Edited March 31, 2006 by houstonray

[HeightsGuy]

Have y'all seen the Property Commerce website for Sawyer Heights? It has changed yet again, alot less retail space and lots more "food" locations. BUT, on the NE corner of the property, can someone explain what all those buildings are? There is a parking GARAGE in the middle of it?!? Apts? Condos? It certainly has changed from the original plan which included a bunch of retail outbuildings with space for dozens of smaller businesses, and now there seems to be alot less.

From what I see, this certainly doesn't look like what they described as "THE inner loop shopping destination" before they broke ground...

It gets curiouser and curiouser! :-)

That's just so weird. I continue to think the area is starving for more retail. I drive up Shepherd on the way home every day, and since they built the Ross on the corner of Shepherd and 11th I've never seen the parking lot anything else but completely full. I went in there last week at 7pm on Tuesday and could barely make my way around inside the place.

[westguy76]

Have y'all seen the Property Commerce website for Sawyer Heights? It has changed yet again, alot less retail space and lots more "food" locations. BUT, on the NE corner of the property, can someone explain what all those buildings are? There is a parking GARAGE in the middle of it?!? Apts? Condos? It certainly has changed from the original plan which included a bunch of retail outbuildings with space for dozens of smaller businesses, and now there seems to be alot less.

From what I see, this certainly doesn't look like what they described as "THE inner loop shopping destination" before they broke ground...

It gets curiouser and curiouser! :-)

sawyer height apartments right behind the target...

those people were offered a lot of moneyand new homes, are still holding out.. too late i would say

i don't know how much info i can give you about those apartments... thnaks

[mistergreen]

The old houses in the middle of the parking lot have now sold (according to my source). The owner has a sentimental streak, as he's having one of them moved because his father built it (his family has lived there for 40+ yrs.). I understand that he got around $450K each for the two houses (that number is strictly conjecture... but it was told to me by someone who might know such things). If so, good for him.

I did look at the new drawings on Property Commerce.... looks like they'll just pave over where the houses were for parking.

According to my guy, they're making a small green space around the two big oaks, he called it a "little park". The only tenant he mentioned by name was Wachovia Bank, to be on the larger bank parcel just North of Spring Street. Oh he said "maybe a La Madeline might go in there".

I'm still real skeptical.

[Guest danax]

From everything I've heard it is only going to be a regular Target.

I'm still hacked that they apparently aren't leaving space for any trees to the parking lot...

Yes, the trees. I think we here have a couple of questions with regards to this, and similar developments.

1) Why can't there be an infant live oak placed every 30 parking spaces or so. Cost? I doubt that. Tree litter/maintanence? I doubt that too. The residents here now, in certainly in the future, would gladly put up with some leaves or bird droppings for the eventual beauty and shade.

2) Why can't they construct the building along the street in order to set an example for an eventual "urban" pedestrian/bicycle district? Cars behind the storefront. They've built them in other cities. That newly designed Taylor/Sawyer has/had a lot of potential to be such a place but now we can see that it won't be.

I'll wait until it's completed before issuing final judgment but so far it looks like just another standard suburban blob.

No zoning can be ok but at least let's get some design influence at a City level when these businesses decide to join our environment. Why not have an aesthetics committee within the Planning Commission? Some pro designers to establish certain standards of beauty and conformity within our evolving districts, or is that idea still too restrictive here?

[RedScare]

Here's their latest drawing.

Sawyer Village

Couple of things I noticed, which may or may not matter when this is finished. The usual suburban model has the big box at the back of the lot, with an expanse of parking facing the street. Here, all of the smaller buildings face the street. Target is still at the back, but the big parking lot is behind the smaller retail and retaurant out parcels. From the street, at least, it should break things up a bit.

The northern half of the development appears to be clustered together more, with plenty of space for landscaping. Trees and shrubs are the last thing to go in, so there is still the possibility that this project gets more landscaping than the usual big box development.

The northwest corner is very interesting. If you zoom in on the NW corner, you'll see what appears to be a group of tightly clustered stores, surrounding a 5.5 level parking garage. There also appears to be a few courtyards in the mix. Depending on the facade and the tenant mix, this could be a pretty neat little corner.

Of course, bisecting the entire development is the railroad easement, with the future bike path. This is likely to be landscaped well, since it cannot be used for anything else. The street scape is liable to be well landscaped, and they appear to be keeping several of the smaller streets, which will likely be landscaped. We tend to focus on the Target and it's attendant lot, because it is the biggest, and is being built first. For whatever else we'd like to see, this is still a commercial enterprise, serving an auto based clientele. They need a big lot. If that lot is shielded from the street somewhat by other retail establishments, so much the better. But, to expect them to inconvenience the shoppers, just so it might look more "urban", is unrealistic.

If this was on a street grid, like Midtown, we might expect it. But, this development fronts a freeway, and there is no grid. And, they are nowhere near finished. I'll wait until they are done to critique it.

Edited April 1, 2006 by RedScare

[houstonray]

Did some checking today and the NW corner is actually going to be, if the deal goes through, a 250+ unit apartment complex/condominium project. The 5.5 level parking garage is parking for the residents and the courtyards are where the apts will face inward toward, I assume with the prerequisite pool area in the middle of one of them. The hope is that people will want to live where they can shop.

You know, years ago when I lived in North Carolina (Raleigh) with my parents, the city had a rule of 1 tree for every THREE parking spaces. So if a developer built a parking lot for 300 cars, he had to put in 100 trees somewhere on the property. I thought that was kind of excessive and didn't "get it", until I visited a couple of years ago and the places I remember were now amazingly beautiful shaded shopping areas. It was truly awesome. Not sure why we don't have a similar rule here.

"they paved paradise and put up a parking lot..." :-)

Edited April 2, 2006 by houstonray