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flatline

Sawyer Heights Target

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NYC Texan2    0

Can't say I am overwhemed by the vision, or lack thereof, in that site plan. Looks like a whole bunch of freestanding Applebees.

The neighborhood is desperate for the Target though, and it can't hurt. Beats a bunch of warehouses.

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UrbaNerd    28

Well, AT LEAST they are trying to fill it in a bit, sintead of making one giant strip with seas of parking. Sure, the sea may be bigger, but there are more islands.

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HeightsGuy    1

I think the one thing that shines in an otherwise dreary suburban-looking design is it looks like they are keeping the hike-and-bike trail along the RR easement. That easement runs over to White Oak Bayou and beyond across the freeway and would make a wonderful route for Heights residents.

Let's hope this will spur the city to build that portion.

bike path

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I think the one thing that shines in an otherwise dreary suburban-looking design is it looks like they are keeping the hike-and-bike trail along the RR easement. That easement runs over to White Oak Bayou and beyond across the freeway and would make a wonderful route for Heights residents.

Let's hope this will spur the city to build that portion.

bike path

At least its NOT a "CVS" ;)

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NYC Texan2    0

Of course, it could quite easily be a CVS if CVS decides to purchase/lease a parcel. This is extremely suburban--basically, I think it is designed to attract enterprises that are more comfortable in a suburban setting than in an urban landscape. Whether this tract is attractive enough to convince those operators will determine if the project goes forward. Target has to be a huge attraction, since there isn't much neighborhood traffic that goes through on Taylor.

They could do something much more interesting if they wanted to, I think. They could do roof parking/a parking garage and make the development more dense. they could make a main street setting where they controlled everything on the blocks. It doesn't have to be this way . . . .

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WestGrayGuy    4

I think I have to agree with MidtownCoog. A suburban style development works for this stretch of freeway. Unfortunate as it my be for inner loop Houston, it will draw those unsure developers.

And at the end of the day, isn't a Target better than warehouses? I know I will probably go to this Target over the one on San Felipe.

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KinkaidAlum    2182

Suburban doesn't make sense at all. With what we now know, suburban development is unsustainable. It creates heat islands, pollution, increases flooding, and further develops our auto-dominated society.

Additionally, a huge suburban type development might actually hurt the local stores that inhabit the Heights in more pedestrian places such as along 19th Avenue.

Just because the plot of land is ugly right now and used for warehousing purposes doesn't mean we should just settle for bad development.

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flatline    33

Kincaid's argument is not against suburban development in this case, but against suburban development AT ALL, in any case. I understand, appreciate, and agree with most of his arguments in a utopian world. BUT, being a realist who needs to buy toilet paper, laundry detergent, and the occasional pair of cheap sunglasses, I love Target.

I can virtually guarantee that there is not an antique shop, tea room, deli, high-end men's clothier, or beautician on 19th street that will be harmed by a Target + other development going in at I-10 and Taylor. Indeed, I would bet good money that the owners of those 19th street establishments anxiously await Target's arrival, so they can buy toilet paper and laundry detergent there.

HeightsGuy is right about the bike path. Great move. That was probably a bone that the developer had to throw to the Heights Assn. and the Woodland Heights Assn. to keep them happy.

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MidtownCoog    3

That part of town needs it.

Never liked the San Felipe location. Too much bad karma from Loop 610.

I'd normally just drive from Midtown to the one near Reliant. It's like going to the UN. You'll hear TONS of languages at that place, and I am not talking about Espanol.

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HeightsGuy    1

I do agree that a true urban style development may not work there, but that doesn't mean they couldn't at least make an effort with the design. The easiest no-brainer design I can think of is taking the proposed hike/bike trail, widening it through the plat and fronting the businesses to it. Sheesh, throw some cobblestones down, a few victorian street lamps, and go with a railroad theme of some sort.

Something, anything would be better than what they propose.

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flatline    33
Something, anything would be better than what they propose.

Anything???? Easy, now. . .

;)

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MidtownCoog    3
Anything???? Easy, now. . .

Agree. I am starting to think y'all are smoking crack. It's a freaking Target, and people are going to drive their cars to it.

What do you expect them to do? Take the bus or rail and schlep all their goods home in a buggy? That looks good on TV, but try it in the real world.

It's next to I-10, and we all know about I-10. This fantasy land "urban target" is just that. A fantasy.

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HeightsGuy    1

Hm, is this an architecture related forum or developer related forum?

How does asking for a little thought behind the design bring up such a well of pent-up frustration?

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MidtownCoog    3

"How does asking for a little thought behind the design bring up such a well of pent-up frustration"

You must a the whiz at reading land use studies.

If you can actually envision the finished product from a fuzzy .pdf land use study, you are a better man than I.

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HeightsGuy    1

See there, now you're adding assumptions as well. Well, if you want to go down the road of assumptions, maybe I am a whiz, maybe not, but looking at the fuzzy jpeg, I can already place it under the crystal ball on my desk and see a sea of parking lot dotted with buildings.

I happen to think this is a bad idea, so please, critique my ideas, not me.

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MidtownCoog    3

We have been down this path before on the old board on this same subject.

Not sure what some people expect from a Target next to an Interstate, but keep dreaming.

Target wants to you drive to their store.

Why?

So you can load up on stuff and spends lots of money.

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NYC Texan2    0

I don't have a problem with the Target itself. It is a box. I have a problem with everything else about the site plan.

Also, remember the site: It is raised about 30 feet above the freeway--no great views from the interstate of the store, except for the signs. Again, it more urban than suburban. I agree with HeightsGuy, as a guy that also lives in the Heights and drives around the area constantly.

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HeightsGuy    1

Well, if it was Walmart I would totally agree. But Target has been known to do innovative things, here is at least one instance, a 2 story Target with shopping cart escalators:

Seattle Target

it won an SEGD design award:

Can't link directly, look under northgate north

I know, I know, no chance of something like this here, just wanting to make the point that it doesn't have to be this way.

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KinkaidAlum    2182

Where in the hell did I say I was against all suburban development?

I was speaking directly about this location.

Additionally, if people would open their minds just a little bit, they'd realize that there are different type of development that can help out Houston in many ways.

Here are just a few pertaining to this site.

1) Parking garages instead of massive paved surface parking. This will reduce the heat island effect and will also reduce potential flooding problems not to mention reduce the pollution runoff of motor oil that will undoubtedly make it's way into White Oak Bayou from the proposed lot. AND, if the developers of this cash cow are feeling neighborly, they might even add a little green space as a token to the 'hood with the leftover land.

2) Get rid of pod sites. Setting up seperate sites for every little fast food joint or other establishment just increases the typical Houstonian's laziness. Instead, add the sites onto the Target store so that people wont be idling in their cars while waiting for their SuperTacos. With how fat we've become, we could use the short walk instead.

3) Build green. Instead of just building a plain big box store, build a big box store with a green roof and/or one made of recycled materials.

AND, before anyone starts shouting about increased expenses, I KNOW THAT. But, when do we as citizens start to demand more? We have rolled over and thrown our collective legs up into the air for developers for too long. It's time we make them pay for the ass-raping they give us!

Hell, these developers could spend quadruple the amount they are planning *(assuming that they are building a typical big box site with pod sites) and still make a tidy profit. Besides the obvious demand for a store like a Target, this area is also a TIRZ area meaning these fellas will make out like bandits with the tax breaks!

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