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So this article references Houston's expansion of the Katy Freeway...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/opinion/cars-ruining-cities.html

 

important part from the article:

 

Quote

We asked Inrix, a company that collects sophisticated highway data, to analyze two relatively recent American freeway projects: the $1.6 billion expansion of Interstate 405 in Los Angeles and the $2.8 billion expansion that made the Katy Freeway in Houston, a section of Interstate 10, the widest in the world, at 26 lanes across.

After the I-405 expansion, the data shows, travel times worsened in both morning and evening rush hours. The Katy Freeway expansion yielded slightly better results, with the evening commute improving, though only slightly in the westbound lanes. The morning commute got worse in both directions.

 

I'm only hopeful that more articles like this are released and taken seriously before the city and state commit what will eventually be upward of 10 billion and untold hours of people's lives moving around the mess of rebuilding and realigning i45.

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5 hours ago, samagon said:

So this article references Houston's expansion of the Katy Freeway...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/opinion/cars-ruining-cities.html

 

important part from the article:

 

 

I'm only hopeful that more articles like this are released and taken seriously before the city and state commit what will eventually be upward of 10 billion and untold hours of people's lives moving around the mess of rebuilding and realigning i45.

I notice they conveniently omitted how many more vehicles the Katy Freeway caries these days. Without expansion, the commutes would be far worse. And, realistically, all of those folks living out in Katyland would not move into denser housing closer to town. First, they couldn't afford it, second, they want the suburban lifestyle and schools with no poor kids.

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Solution has to be more than just better freeways; we'll need:

  • Better public transportation
  • More dense housing where possible
  • Better timing on surface street traffic lights

The idea is we need to try to reduce the short freeway trips because those are easier to solve and allows room for more growth of the longer distance freeway trips

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15 hours ago, Ross said:

I notice they conveniently omitted how many more vehicles the Katy Freeway caries these days. Without expansion, the commutes would be far worse. And, realistically, all of those folks living out in Katyland would not move into denser housing closer to town. First, they couldn't afford it, second, they want the suburban lifestyle and schools with no poor kids.

 

they said this:

 

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The people in charge of these projects will no doubt argue that with traffic growing overall, the freeways would be in even worse shape had they not been expanded. Still, these results are not much to show for such huge sums of public money. We think the billions going to these kinds of projects could be better spent maintaining the roads and bridges we already have.

 

the thing they do mention, which is bad about Houston, and other primarily car towns, is the horrible air quality. how many people are suffering from asthma and other breathing issues because of particulates in the air that are attributed directly to air quality? 

 

commuter rail costs (on the high end) 25 million per mile. from Katy Mills Mall to UHD is 31 miles. it cost 2.8 billion to make the freeway wider, if they had put a commuter line from KMM to UHD they would have spend 800 million and had 2 billion left over for other projects. maybe making METRO better to work with a commuter line down I-10. You want to live out in Katy, perfect, take a train, or deal with traffic.

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J. G. Ballard, writing in 1971 in Drive magazine on the future of the car:

 

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Almost anything one cares to say about the future will probably come true, and sooner than we think. I feel that most of these developments are inevitable, given rising populations, rising incomes and leisure, and that the car as we know it now is on the way out. To a large extent I deplore its passing, for as a basically old-fashioned machine it enshrines a basically old-fashioned idea -- freedom. In terms of pollution, noise and human life the price of that freedom may be high, but perhaps the car, by the very muddle and congestion it causes, may be holding back the remorseless spread of the regimented, electronic society.

 

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3 hours ago, samagon said:

 

they said this:

 

 

the thing they do mention, which is bad about Houston, and other primarily car towns, is the horrible air quality. how many people are suffering from asthma and other breathing issues because of particulates in the air that are attributed directly to air quality? 

 

commuter rail costs (on the high end) 25 million per mile. from Katy Mills Mall to UHD is 31 miles. it cost 2.8 billion to make the freeway wider, if they had put a commuter line from KMM to UHD they would have spend 800 million and had 2 billion left over for other projects. maybe making METRO better to work with a commuter line down I-10. You want to live out in Katy, perfect, take a train, or deal with traffic.

 

Your numbers are highly questionable.

 

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/

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17 minutes ago, gmac said:

 

This was the first link I found:

https://www.thoughtco.com/rail-transit-projects-costs-2798796

 

Quote

Recent Commuter Rail Project Costs

Because commuter rail lines generally use existing tracks and rights-of-way, they generally are much cheaper to build than other rail lines. Unfortunately, freight railroad tracks rarely go anywhere commuters need to go. Recent commuter rail startup costs have ranged from $1.3 million per mile for Nashville's Music City Star (a line which is mostly single-tracked) to a high of $26 million per mile for the Seattle Sounder.

 

 

and at the end of your article they say this:

Quote

Nearly all American urban rail projects cost much more than their European counterparts do. The cheaper ones cost twice as much, and the more expensive ones about seven times as much. The reasons for this are varied: Some arise from the character of the project (unique regulations related to commuter rail), some from state rules (California’s problem with contractors), and some from poor project management (Boston’s Green Line Extension).

 

So the problem is not that mass transit costs that much, it's that regulations (probably put in place thanks to lobbyists from the automotive industry) make it so cost prohibitive.

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11 hours ago, cspwal said:

Solution has to be more than just better freeways; we'll need:

  • Better public transportation
  • More dense housing where possible
  • Better timing on surface street traffic lights

The idea is we need to try to reduce the short freeway trips because those are easier to solve and allows room for more growth of the longer distance freeway trips

Better timing on surface street traffic lights would do a lot for congestion as well as helping out public transportation (faster rides). But density, not so much. In addition to the need to travel around (people aren't confined to boxes, they'll want to move around if possible even if amenities are available--excluding work, how often do you leave your neighborhood?), it's pretty useless without some modicum of wealth and space. The people who scream DENSITY DENSITY DENSITY as if it's a goal to be achieved probably would hate it a lot more if you had six (more) roommates to achieve a denser living space.

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:16 AM, Naviguessor said:

Cars have be ruining cities since horses gave up ruining cities. 

Pretty much agree with this statement.
IMHO, the Golden Age of American cities occurred during the transition between horses and cars. Many neighborhoods that we now think of as urban were viewed as "streetcar suburbs" in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Small businesses (grocery stores, butchers, bakers, tailors, laundries, movie theaters, bars, etc.) were distributed to be within walking distance of most housing; bicycles, streetcars and/or trollies were convenient modes of transportation to more distant destinations, such as parks or central business districts. For those who lived in more distant suburbs or rural areas, the interurban trollies formed a network that would be enviable today.
Much of what we call the "New Urbanism" is really based on an old urbanism that worked. Unfortunately, the undeniable convenience of cars led to the inconveniences we suffer today, and interfere with attempts to integrate the best of both worlds.

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Let me explain why cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta are exploding in growth whereas Boston and San Francisco are not. Cost of Living. It is cheaper for a family to live in the first list of cities, and live well, than in the latter.  Boston and San Francisco have become boutique cities with the middle class squeezed into tiny living areas. The sun belt cities are growing due to cheap land and the automobile. They have a thriving middle class. Yes we need rail and buses, but they will always serve a small percentage of the people.  For the present the automobile rules. 

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8 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

Pretty much agree with this statement.
IMHO, the Golden Age of American cities occurred during the transition between horses and cars. Many neighborhoods that we now think of as urban were viewed as "streetcar suburbs" in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Small businesses (grocery stores, butchers, bakers, tailors, laundries, movie theaters, bars, etc.) were distributed to be within walking distance of most housing; bicycles, streetcars and/or trollies were convenient modes of transportation to more distant destinations, such as parks or central business districts. For those who lived in more distant suburbs or rural areas, the interurban trollies formed a network that would be enviable today.
Much of what we call the "New Urbanism" is really based on an old urbanism that worked. Unfortunately, the undeniable convenience of cars led to the inconveniences we suffer today, and interfere with attempts to integrate the best of both worlds.

Bicycles for most of the 20th century (basically from the 1920s to the 1970s) were considered for children, at least in America and not taken seriously as a way to commute. As for small businesses, most of the grocery stores back in the late 19th/early 20th century weren't much larger than your typical convenience stores nowadays, and unless you live in a nest of single family houses, there's bound to be a convenience store/actual grocery store/drugstore with a halfway decent food section within walking distance.

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5 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

Bicycles for most of the 20th century (basically from the 1920s to the 1970s) were considered for children, at least in America and not taken seriously as a way to commute. As for small businesses, most of the grocery stores back in the late 19th/early 20th century weren't much larger than your typical convenience stores nowadays, and unless you live in a nest of single family houses, there's bound to be a convenience store/actual grocery store/drugstore with a halfway decent food section within walking distance.

I’ve been almost run down, had bells rung at me and heard “on your left” so many times now from bike riders who refuse to slow down when they are around people that I now have an unreasonable hatred of bike riders. I’m lumping them all together and making a blanket statement. If you ride a bike you suck, every one of you are guilty.

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1 minute ago, jgriff said:

I’ve been almost run down, had bells rung at me and heard “on your left” so many times now from bike riders who refuse to slow down when they are around people that I now have an unreasonable hatred of bike riders. I’m lumping them all together and making a blanket statement. If you ride a bike you suck, every one of you are guilty.

I'm almost convinced that bicyclists in public streets are trying to run some sort of insurance scam (I won't get into when some jerks forced me onto the opposing traffic lane at Houston Avenue about a month ago, as that would require a few MS Paint diagrams just to show what was going on), but if you actually follow the rules of the road, congratulations, you are in the minority. It often begs the question of what painted bike lanes are for if not just a way for water to collect without splashing cars or passerby--"real" cyclists don't use them and they're fairly limiting and dangerous for what they are.

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1 hour ago, IronTiger said:

I'm almost convinced that bicyclists in public streets are trying to run some sort of insurance scam (I won't get into when some jerks forced me onto the opposing traffic lane at Houston Avenue about a month ago, as that would require a few MS Paint diagrams just to show what was going on), but if you actually follow the rules of the road, congratulations, you are in the minority. It often begs the question of what painted bike lanes are for if not just a way for water to collect without splashing cars or passerby--"real" cyclists don't use them and they're fairly limiting and dangerous for what they are.

 

Bike riders are so obnoxious, pompous and self un-aware. I used to ride a bike. I wouldn’t get near one now because I don’t want to be associated with those kind of people. I genuinely think many of them are bad people and their attitude is bad for society.

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10 hours ago, jgriff said:

I’ve been almost run down, had bells rung at me and heard “on your left” so many times now from bike riders who refuse to slow down when they are around people that I now have an unreasonable hatred of bike riders. I’m lumping them all together and making a blanket statement. If you ride a bike you suck, every one of you are guilty.

And they are all apparently exempt from traffic laws, given the number of bike riders that don't stop for red lights and stop signs or veer across several traffic lanes to make a turn.

 

I do try to avoid cyclists and give them as much room as possible when I am in my car, and I don't just whip around them to get past - I often end up driving their speed until it is safe to pass, but the cyclists have to play their part too. This is all indicative of a lack of politeness and caring for others that is becoming more prevalent these days. 

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Someone on a bike calling out "on your left (or right)?"  Oh, if that were only so - particularly when the jackasses show up for Critical Mess and take over not only the streets but the sidewalks too, after driving their bro-dozer in from Katy or wherever and parking it halfway across downtown because they can't parallel park in fewer than two spaces - and heaven forbid that they pay to park in a garage or lot.

 

Unfortunately, it would be too obvious if I were carrying a baseball bat or something similar - though it's tempting. :ph34r:

 

Edit:  reading back over this, it sounds like the danged kids need to get off of my sidewalk lawn.

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I’ve just decided to stop getting out of their way. I’m also not walking single file to make space for them anymore. They have brakes, not my problem if they go over the handle bars. If they insist on riding at top speed on the crowded sidewalks in BBP they can just run right into to all 210 pounds of me. We’ll both get hurt but so be it. 

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2 hours ago, mollusk said:

Someone on a bike calling out "on your left (or right)?"  Oh, if that were only so - particularly when the jackasses show up for Critical Mess and take over not only the streets but the sidewalks too, after driving their bro-dozer in from Katy or wherever and parking it halfway across downtown because they can't parallel park in fewer than two spaces - and heaven forbid that they pay to park in a garage or lot.

 

Unfortunately, it would be too obvious if I were carrying a baseball bat or something similar - though it's tempting. :ph34r:

 

Edit:  reading back over this, it sounds like the danged kids need to get off of my sidewalk lawn.

 

1 hour ago, jgriff said:

I’ve just decided to stop getting out of their way. I’m also not walking single file to make space for them anymore. They have brakes, not my problem if they go over the handle bars. If they insist on riding at top speed on the crowded sidewalks in BBP they can just run right into to all 210 pounds of me. We’ll both get hurt but so be it. 

The next time Critical Mass comes through my hood, I am planning to  walk across the main street they use every time the light turns green for me as a pedestrian. If they choose not to stop, then so be it. I may get a bruise or two, but their bike will be bent up after hitting me.

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22 hours ago, mollusk said:

the jackasses show up for Critical Mess

 

Residents of the northeastern state that is the home of the Red Sox have got to be pleased that another group has finally become more closely identified with the term "Massholes" than themselves. 

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Boston and San Francisco are tiny. Both under 50 square miles. And both are GROWING. Sure, it's expensive to live there but it's expensive to live in the best areas of Houston too. Try buying somewhere between Downtown and Rice or Downtown and Memorial.

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On 4/28/2018 at 4:40 PM, jgriff said:

I’ve just decided to stop getting out of their way. I’m also not walking single file to make space for them anymore. They have brakes, not my problem if they go over the handle bars. If they insist on riding at top speed on the crowded sidewalks in BBP they can just run right into to all 210 pounds of me. We’ll both get hurt but so be it. 

 

I don't participate in BBP park because people are rude, cyclists, joggers, dog walkers and pedestrians. No one is nice. It's not your fault, or their fault, the paths aren't really designed to accommodate multiple forms of mobility. 

 

The few times I did try participating in BBP there were no fewer than 3 or 4 groups of people stopped in the middle of the path conversing, rather than moving into the grass. No one obeyed any kind of rules. From cyclists going too fast when passing peds, or not even announcing themselves, to groups of peds walking abreast and not yielding, or peds walking in the middle of the giant path as slow as they could with their over sized stroller and headphones (so they can't hear anything, or anyone).

 

It's a shared space, you can deal with it or find somewhere that has fewer people, and if you don't make accommodation, you are as much a part of the rudeness as everyone else is.

 

It's not really your fault if you contribute to the rudeness though.

 

The real problem is that the paths aren't designed to accommodate everyone safely. Go to the  paths in Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Zilker in Austin. The paths in those parks can easily accommodate multiple forms of recreation, jogging, walking, cycling, etc.

 

The paths for BBP were made back when running and walking were the primary forms of recreating, times have changed. Why the planners of BBP didn't see that it would benefit from paths that were designed to accommodate more forms of recreating than what was already there is beyond me. The planners should have made the paths at least 2 or 3 times wider than they are currently and made them with crushed granite, or other similar media. Wider paths allow for people to pass with a wider berth, and the crushed granite slows cyclists.

 

I suppose, if you think about it, BBP is a perfect example of what the problem is with the roads. The roads are built to accommodate one specific purpose alone, and people want to use other forms of transportation on those roads than they were designed for, which ends with a lot of people being angry with each other.

 

The roads weren't designed to accommodate multiple forms of transit, and now, people want to use multiple forms of transit, so when that happens, everyone gets angry with everyone else that isn't using their preferred method of transit. If trends continue, it's only going to get worse.

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A couple notes samagon. 

3 hours ago, samagon said:

It's a shared space, you can deal with it or find somewhere that has fewer people

...I guess that that is what you have done. 

Crushed granite paths were considered as an option for BBP, but flood waters would wash these away or at least erode the margins.  The width of the paths you see in Memorial, Hermann and Zilker park may be well suited for the flat, expansive terrain.  But, for BBP's contour, it's just not.  However, wider concrete paths were made for bikes.  Narrower, Asphalt paths (softer surface, better for running) were added closer to the bayou banks for pedestrians, bikes are prohibited.  For the most part, I find that this policy is well marked and generally followed by most bikers.  So, I actually think that BB Partnership did do a pretty good job considering multiple forms of transit.  What they cannot do, however, is control just how people act on the different paths.  Can you anywhere, anyway? 

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10 hours ago, samagon said:

Go to the  paths in Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Zilker in Austin. The paths in those parks can easily accommodate multiple forms of recreation, jogging, walking, cycling, etc.

 

Last week at Memorial Park I saw a friggin' SUV driving down the path in front of the parking lot by the tennis courts. Not sure if the driver truly believed that was one of the generally-acceptable forms of recreation the paths were intended to accommodate, or if he was just suffering from a terminal case of craniorectal inversion, but suddenly finding myself staring into a pair of oncoming headlights sure got my attention right quick. He got back onto the paved roadway at the end of the parking lot and took off. I saw a cop cruising through the parking lot a few minutes later and was tempted to wave him down, but the offending SUV was long gone. 

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On 4/26/2018 at 9:52 AM, htownbro said:

Then whats the solution?  It is only going to get worse as more and more people move here...with cars.

PUBLIC TRANSIT. People want options. When you go to the grocery store, is there only one brand of cereal on the shelf? It's all cereal but people have preferences. Cars will get you somewhere but what about those that don't want to have to drive every single day. You force them on the road when if you gave them options you free up that space on the highway. If even just 5% of people decided to take mass transit, the highways would be waaay less congested. 

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7 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

PUBLIC TRANSIT. People want options. When you go to the grocery store, is there only one brand of cereal on the shelf? It's all cereal but people have preferences. Cars will get you somewhere but what about those that don't want to have to drive every single day. You force them on the road when if you gave them options you free up that space on the highway. If even just 5% of people decided to take mass transit, the highways would be waaay less congested. 

 

Running some comparisons with Dallas, the most popular line is the Red Line, which largely runs on abandoned right of way to Plano, paralleling 75. The equivalent to that would be (if we were using 290 as a comparison) is FM 1960 as the terminus. As for improving public transit in Houston, one thing would be to have free parking at transit stations (Dallas does). I dread driving to downtown even though it's less than 7 miles away and most of that is on Main/North Main. An ideal solution would be just to drive east on Crosstimbers, and take the train down, even if it is slow. But unlike Fannin, which despite its isolated location still demands a parking fee (even on non-event days), Northline doesn't have parking at all.

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9 hours ago, IronTiger said:

 

Running some comparisons with Dallas, the most popular line is the Red Line, which largely runs on abandoned right of way to Plano, paralleling 75. The equivalent to that would be (if we were using 290 as a comparison) is FM 1960 as the terminus. As for improving public transit in Houston, one thing would be to have free parking at transit stations (Dallas does). I dread driving to downtown even though it's less than 7 miles away and most of that is on Main/North Main. An ideal solution would be just to drive east on Crosstimbers, and take the train down, even if it is slow. But unlike Fannin, which despite its isolated location still demands a parking fee (even on non-event days), Northline doesn't have parking at all.

 

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/TXMETRO/bulletins/c846e0

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