Ross Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said: Yeah like where HP is building, or look at Greenspoint. It was cheap land for corporations to make money. Nothing else. No real long term vision for the community. Where else would you have put the Greenspoint development, especially the buildings Exxon built, plus the old Anadarko building? There wasn't any real desire when those were built to put anything Downtown. Are you also saying that economics should never play a part in where corporations put their buildings? Compaq built in the middle of nowhere in the 90's, because it made sense. I'm sure HP did the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I imagine the corporations that built in Greenspoint and other non-downtown areas had a very different vision from yours. They likely wanted an accessible office complex with somewhat affordable housing potential in the general vicinity. I wouldn't have built anything corporate in a downtown area had I been in a position to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moore713 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, gmac said: "middle of nowhere"??? Omg ...quite nitpicking every damn thing... The point was for a long time alot of business were fine just setting up shop in Houston and didn't feel a need to engage the community.... All of that and you locked in on a off hand comment about " middle of nowhere " sheesh Edited December 15, 2020 by Moore713 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 12 hours ago, Ross said: Where else would you have put the Greenspoint development, especially the buildings Exxon built, plus the old Anadarko building? There wasn't any real desire when those were built to put anything Downtown. Are you also saying that economics should never play a part in where corporations put their buildings? Compaq built in the middle of nowhere in the 90's, because it made sense. I'm sure HP did the same thing. Well yes, there wasn't any real desire to put things downtown because people didn't care about the city, like he was saying. They basically wanted to be on virgin land as disconnected from the city as possible, but still be near the city so that they could use the airport and take advantage of the labor pool, as well as have big-city amenities like pro sports teams to help lure employees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post H-Town Man Posted December 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) On 12/14/2020 at 6:15 PM, Moore713 said: Where I kind of have to push back...I don't ever think it was a local thing... I always felt it was those not from Houston that feed alot of the problems.. For the longest time alot of business treated Houston as just a place to make money. There was no real desire to invest in the city.. outside of massive bland Corp campuses in the middle of nowhere.. it feels like only around early 2000 did they start to think about creating places to live and work. And therefore put thought into how can we build something that meets are needs but is also pleasing to the eye. You're exactly right, it was in the early 2000's that Houston leaders really started to get serious about enhancing quality of life in the city. There was a Quality of Life Coalition of major business leaders that formed around 2001 or 2002, some major planning initiatives like the Main Street Master Plan in I think 2001 and the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan in 2003, and corporations led by Enron started to give more money to quality of life causes. The Astros and Rockets moving downtown also happened around this time and signaled a renewed interest in the city. City Hall embarked on downtown renovations like the Cotswold project to enhance sidewalks in the historic district and light rail also was led by these same forces. Of course, people had to be dragged along kicking and screaming. Lots of suburban middle-aged folks just couldn't believe you would put a baseball park downtown where there was "nothing but homeless," the traffic would be so bad, no parking, etc., and they laughed similarly at Discovery Green, saying it would be a homeless encampment. Online bloggers like Tory Gattis said that walkable neighborhoods would never work in Houston because it's too hot and humid and there are no "portable air-conditioners" for people to carry around. People were stuck in a vision that the only good life for successful people was in master-planned suburbs like The Woodlands with big tract homes and uninhabited, purely decorative front yards, places so anti-civic that even their own streets were empty and the inhabitants only gathered on backyard decks if they ever went outside at all, not touching the ground, whereas the city was for society's failures and any enhancement of the city was essentially social welfare. You can still find this view in some places, although it's more quaint and comical now than scary, especially since their own children have grown up and now largely chosen city life. Edited December 16, 2020 by H-Town Man 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) dp Edited December 15, 2020 by H-Town Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Moore713 said: Omg ...quite nitpicking every damn thing... The point was for a long time alot of business were fine just setting up shop in Houston and didn't feel a need to engage the community.... All of that and you locked in on a off hand comment about " middle of nowhere " sheesh Be more precise in your writing, then. Businesses engaged with the community by providing jobs, many of them paying pretty well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I'd like for you all to note that it was the 1990s that really sparked what we're seeing today. Mayor Lee Brown, despite the negative things I've heard of him when I was younger, really envisioned what is still happening today. Don't forget all those shiny new towers Downtown are all connected to an highly desirable, air conditioned, underground network of tunnels to avoid the streets. Or they have above ground skywalks. Very, very, few interact with the street. We're only seeing a toe being dipped in the pool with stuff like the Houston Center reno, Allen Center, 600 Travis, Bank of America, and the Texas Tower. We've got a long way to go. We're making a good move in the right direction and progress takes time. Just like the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77011transplant Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Be more precise in your writing, then. Businesses engaged with the community by providing jobs, many of them paying pretty well. I respectfully disagree. Businesses may provide jobs, but think of all the folks who commute, especially when you build an office campus somewhere like Greenspoint that have been historically and currently neglected. Those workers probably take the majority of their wages and spend them in other places. I applaud businesses and developers that are willing to work and listen to the communities they plan to move into and provide a thoughtful approach with how to work with communities to improve the surrounding neighborhood. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X.R. Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 A lot of this historical discussion about Houston and it being primarily driven, development-wise, by business interests, and the utilization of land outside the city for these corporate campuses, is covered in Prophetic City: Houston on the Cusp of a Changing America by Stephen L. Klineberg. Its a great book, I never knew the origins of Houston or why it developed the way it did. One of the primary points of the book is that Houston was always a town where business interests came first, and it just so happened that for various times in Houston's history, the interests of the city also aligned with it. I primarily picked it up because I was inspired by discussions like these on HAIF. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 17 hours ago, Moore713 said: Where I kind of have to push back...I don't ever think it was a local thing... I always felt it was those not from Houston that feed alot of the problems.. For the longest time alot of business treated Houston as just a place to make money. There was no real desire to invest in the city.. outside of massive bland Corp campuses in the middle of nowhere.. it feels like only around early 2000 did they start to think about creating places to live and work. And therefore put thought into how can we build something that meets are needs but is also pleasing to the eye. 17 hours ago, gmac said: "middle of nowhere"??? 12 hours ago, Moore713 said: Omg ...quite nitpicking every damn thing... The point was for a long time alot of business were fine just setting up shop in Houston and didn't feel a need to engage the community.... All of that and you locked in on a off hand comment about " middle of nowhere " sheesh I'd say middle of nowhere is actually pretty accurate, historically. when Schlumberger purchased their land out in Sugarland, it was pastures that they bought. when Compaq built their HQ out off 249, 249 was a 2 lane road. I think Louetta had a stop sign at 249 way back then. the Texas Instruments facility out on 249, don't know who owns/uses it now, but when built, 249 was nothing. certainly these are three of the bigger examples Houston has to offer, but there's a reason the 'energy corridor' is where it is, someone decided to move their offices to Dairy Ashford and I-10, and someone followed. why is there so much industry out on Brittmoore? these (and many more) may be 'somewhere' now, but once upon a time, when the facilities were built, they were 'the middle of nowhere'. today, it can't be said that Exxon building their campus where they did is the 'middle of nowhere', I'm sure they paid a hefty premium for that location, but it was probably cheaper than figuring out how to consolidate in their downtown office (and offer all the amenities they have out there), and is closer to nowhere than the spaces in Houston that they vacated. but then no where is relative, isn't it? it's closer to IAH, certainly the employees who live in Conroe don't think that's no where, but if you find some random from San Francisco and say "hey, Exxon is near the woodlands!" they'd say "huh?". 17 minutes ago, X.R. said: A lot of this historical discussion about Houston and it being primarily driven, development-wise, by business interests, and the utilization of land outside the city for these corporate campuses, is covered in Prophetic City: Houston on the Cusp of a Changing America by Stephen L. Klineberg. Its a great book, I never knew the origins of Houston or why it developed the way it did. One of the primary points of the book is that Houston was always a town where business interests came first, and it just so happened that for various times in Houston's history, the interests of the city also aligned with it. I primarily picked it up because I was inspired by discussions like these on HAIF. thanks for this! my mom really enjoys reading about Houston history, this has been ordered and is going under the tree this year! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) Not sure what the big fuss about "middle of nowhere" is because a majority of the corporations were/are in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. Yeah it's the "COH" but I'm so tired of labeling downtown as this separate isolated section of the city, when in fact it is the main part of Houston. So yeah I wish we had made a bigger push to get some of the corporations downtown. The biggest change was in the early 2000's. Now we are seeing companies move back in to an urban setting. The Innovation District will be a great example of this. Edited December 15, 2020 by j_cuevas713 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Montrose1100 said: I'd like for you all to note that it was the 1990s that really sparked what we're seeing today. Mayor Lee Brown, despite the negative things I've heard of him when I was younger, really envisioned what is still happening today. Don't forget all those shiny new towers Downtown are all connected to an highly desirable, air conditioned, underground network of tunnels to avoid the streets. Or they have above ground skywalks. Very, very, few interact with the street. We're only seeing a toe being dipped in the pool with stuff like the Houston Center reno, Allen Center, 600 Travis, Bank of America, and the Texas Tower. We've got a long way to go. We're making a good move in the right direction and progress takes time. Just like the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. Some groundwork was definitely laid in the 90's with the beginnings of downtown residential conversions led by Randall Davis, the decision to locate the new ballpark downtown, some early dreaming about downtown revitalization, etc. Some groundwork was laid in the 80's for that matter with Sesquicentennial Park along the bayou, the Wortham Center, the George R. Brown, etc. But I see the early 2000's as the inflection point, when the business community really became aware that "quality of life" was a big deal and you started getting huge donations for things like parks from oil billionaires. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 23 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said: Not sure what the big fuss about "middle of nowhere" is because a majority of the corporations were/are in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. Yeah it's the "COH" but I'm so tired of labeling downtown as this separate isolated section of the city, when in fact it is the main part of Houston. So yeah I wish we had made a bigger push to get some of the corporations downtown. The biggest change was in the early 2000's. Now we are seeing companies move back in to an urban setting. The Innovation District will be a great example of this. I think the way things are is just so damned Houston, and is part of what makes it such a great city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 3:38 PM, H-Town Man said: Some groundwork was definitely laid in the 90's with the beginnings of downtown residential conversions led by Randall Davis, the decision to locate the new ballpark downtown, some early dreaming about downtown revitalization, etc. Some groundwork was laid in the 80's for that matter with Sesquicentennial Park along the bayou, the Wortham Center, the George R. Brown, etc. But I see the early 2000's as the inflection point, when the business community really became aware that "quality of life" was a big deal and you started getting huge donations for things like parks from oil billionaires. Meh, I wouldn't count the Wortham and Convention Center, they were built with the same fortress mentality. Bayou Music Center has more of human scale/retail components (1997). The inner west loop started gentrifying in the late 1990s and the initial investments for all the things you saw in the early 2000s were from the late 1990s. What was the weird little E-Village rendering we saw floating around, semi hardy yards, semi founders district. Anyway, you might be right with the heavy investments and turn around in the early 2000s, (Hell, even the Galleria Area finally started exploding). However, the Red Line, MMP, Discovery Green (or at least the revitalization of the area in front of the GRB including a Hotel), 1500 Louisiana Street, Toyota Center, were all sparked in the the late 1990s. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 moo, I wouldn't count the Wortham and Convention Center, they were built with the same fortress mentality. Bayou Music Center has more of human scale/retail components (1997). The inner west loop started gentrifying in the late 1990s and the initial investments for all the things you saw in the early 2000s were from the late 1990s. What was the weird little E-Village rendering we saw floating around, semi hardy yards, semi founders district. Anyway, you might be right with the heavy investments and turn around in the early 2000s, (Hell, even the Galleria Area finally started exploding). However, the Red Line, MMP, Discovery Green (or at least the revitalization of the area in front of the GRB including a Hotel), 1500 Louisiana Street, Toyota Center, were all sparked in the the late 1990s. Montrose, the most revitalizing of all is, you joined this forum in the early 2000's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADCS Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 moo, Houston isn't naturally beautiful. There are plenty of other great cities that don't have much when it comes to nature, either - but they do build up their human environment to make up for it. As noted, Houston hasn't really invested in that until the last 20 years or so - it was a city only an engineer could love. That seems to be changing; Memorial Park in particular is a true vision. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pablog Posted December 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2020 Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. In my personal opinion, natural beauty extends far beyond mountains, waterfalls, lakes, etc. Even the desert itself is beautiful in its way. But just how there are people who just like and listen to rap or rock, there will be people who just like a particular terrain and find others inferior. For all of us who do find Houston naturally beautiful, you’re not alone, lol to get back on topic, I can’t wait for the Eastern part of Buffalo Bayou to be completed. I am sure it will be “beautiful”😂 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KinkaidAlum Posted December 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2020 I tell you what I missed when I lived in Boston... spring in February. Houston sure looks good with azaleas in bloom and trees budding. You had to wait until May for Spring to hit Boston. I tell you what I miss living in LA, rain. We've had one day of rain since April. One. It is dirty AF here despite street cleaning efforts. Sure, the mountains look great and the Pacific is there (I live by downtown so it isn't really there) but I miss live oak canopies, the smell of fresh rain, and having mother nature giving the city a good rinse. I also miss the trails along Buffalo and Braes Bayous and being able to traverse much of the inner city without much fear of getting run over by a car. Compare the LA river to Allen Parkway and then tell me again how ugly Houston is. Houston has a lot of potential. I am glad people finally love it enough again to care. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) Rip rap. https://www.scctx.com/products/rip-rap/ Edited December 27, 2020 by hindesky 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hindesky Posted January 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2021 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I guess I was guessing a small park not just rip rap but this does flood often so....rip rap it is. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hindesky Posted January 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2021 No one there on Sunday so I ventured down to check the progress. Sheets of shoring piles. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) On 12/10/2020 at 12:40 AM, pablog said: Houston is a looker in my eyes 😍 thought about this, this weekend when i was looking at my buddy @brijonmang's instagram and how his photography is PROOF that we DO live in a freaking beautiful city.... i love Houston (and to keep this on topic, dang the weather was beautiful for a bike ride yesterday and so amazing to go to Buffalo Bayou AND Memorial Park...we are truly lucky to have all that amazingness in our city!) Edited February 1, 2021 by gene 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/29/2021 at 5:45 PM, hindesky said: I guess I was guessing a small park not just rip rap but this does flood often so....rip rap it is. Probably there to help prevent erosion around the foundation of the bridge during floods, would be my guess. Hopefully its not all rip rap and the rest of the dirt area will be some sort of natural landscaping? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, gene said: thought about this, this weekend when i was looking at my buddy @brijonmang's instagram and how his photography is PROOF that we DO live in a freaking beautiful city.... i love Houston (and to keep this on topic, dang the weather was beautiful for a bike ride yesterday and so amazing to go to Buffalo Bayou AND Memorial Park...we are truly lucky to have all that amazingness in our city!) Thank you, Gene! You've always been one of my biggest supporters and I truly appreciate that! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 12/18/2020 at 1:52 AM, KinkaidAlum said: I tell you what I missed when I lived in Boston... spring in February. Houston sure looks good with azaleas in bloom and trees budding. You had to wait until May for Spring to hit Boston. I tell you what I miss living in LA, rain. We've had one day of rain since April. One. It is dirty AF here despite street cleaning efforts. Sure, the mountains look great and the Pacific is there (I live by downtown so it isn't really there) but I miss live oak canopies, the smell of fresh rain, and having mother nature giving the city a good rinse. I also miss the trails along Buffalo and Braes Bayous and being able to traverse much of the inner city without much fear of getting run over by a car. Compare the LA river to Allen Parkway and then tell me again how ugly Houston is. Houston has a lot of potential. I am glad people finally love it enough again to care. If you can go remote full time, you should try Boston in the summer, Houston in the winter and LA when you absolutely must. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 19 hours ago, brijonmang said: Thank you, Gene! You've always been one of my biggest supporters and I truly appreciate that! You're the best Bryan! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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