Why does everyone keep talking about toll roads like it's a positive thing?

[IronTiger]

3 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

Actually we've gotten quite far off topic here. (possibly iron tigers intention with his troll antics)

 

 

I wasn't trolling (well, if the "Tolluminati" image really bothers you that much, I can remove it) but let's not point fingers...you were the one who dragged this topic into how HCTRA is evil and anyone who says otherwise is probably associated with it.

[Ross]

19 hours ago, IronTiger said:

I wasn't trolling (well, if the "Tolluminati" image really bothers you that much, I can remove it) but let's not point fingers...you were the one who dragged this topic into how HCTRA is evil and anyone who says otherwise is probably associated with it.

The Tolluminati thing is awesome - keep it. Thanks for reminding to check my account to see if my monthly payment from HCTRA is there yet. (that's satire, for the less perceptive among us)

[SkylineView]

I want to reiterate this is my favorite thread on HAIF.  Huge high-five to IronTiger.  I literally LOL'd.  Needed that today.

[Houston19514]

On 1/4/2017 at 10:03 AM, VinnyVincent said:

 

 

You're the one talking out of your ass here. I commuted on 290 DURING the non HOV hours, in the HOT lane, for free.

Personally did it on a daily basis for work...so not only is it an option to ride the HOT hours with metro, but metro doesn't give you the "bonus" of having to pay tolls like HCTRA does in I-10.

You do realize that using the lanes during HOT hours "FOR A FEE" does not mean it's free right? I sure hope so...

 

OMG.  I know this is a waste of time, but here goes.  You did not commute on the 290 HOV/HOT lanes during non-HOV hours.  The 290 HOV/HOT lanes do not have any non-HOV hours during which the lanes are open.  When it's open, it's an HOV.  It's free for motorcycles during all HOV hours, just as are the I-10 Managed lanes.  Stop lying.

 

For anyone interested in facts:

 

Here are the hours the 290 HOV/HOT lane is open.  Note that all open hours are HOV hours.  

 

US 290 West  Northwest Freeway	Monday - Friday	5 - 6:30 a.m.  6:30 - 8 a.m.  8 - 11 a.m.  1 - 8 p.m.	Inbound Inbound Inbound Outbound	2+ 3+ 2+ 2+

[mollusk]

Federal law allows motorcycles to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. (link, at #15).  It was not always thus - Houston's first contraflow lanes did not allow them; at first neither did the fully separated HOV lanes that replaced them.  The Federal mandate came into being in part because of this.

 

 

[VinnyVincent]

On 1/7/2017 at 2:36 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

OMG.  I know this is a waste of time, but here goes.  You did not commute on the 290 HOV/HOT lanes during non-HOV hours.  The 290 HOV/HOT lanes do not have any non-HOV hours during which the lanes are open.  When it's open, it's an HOV.  It's free for motorcycles during all HOV hours, just as are the I-10 Managed lanes.  Stop lying.

 

For anyone interested in facts:

 

Here are the hours the 290 HOV/HOT lane is open.  Note that all open hours are HOV hours.  

 

US 290 West  Northwest Freeway	Monday - Friday	5 - 6:30 a.m.  6:30 - 8 a.m.  8 - 11 a.m.  1 - 8 p.m.	Inbound Inbound Inbound Outbound	2+ 3+ 2+ 2+

Try to keep up...

 

You do realize I have to drive home? I've already gone over those times...no one is lying here.

If you were really trying to educate people on the facts, you would post where motorcycles are free during HOT hours as well.

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

Try to keep up...

 

You do realize I have to drive home? I've already gone over those times...no one is lying here.

If you were really trying to educate people on the facts, you would post where motorcycles are free during HOT hours as well.

 

Try to keep up indeed.  Both the 290 HOV lane and the Katy managed lanes allow motorcycles free usage during all HOV hours.  Your statements to the contrary are false. The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open it is HOV.  It is impossible to use the 290 HOV lane in non-HOV hours. In fact, on the Katy managed lanes, motorcycles can ride free 12 hours each day, in both directions.  The 290 HOV lane only offers free motorcycle rides 6 hours in one direction and 7 hours in the other direction each day.  After examining the facts, your initial idea that HCTRA doesn't care about the lives of motorcycle riders because they don't let them ride free the way Metro does on 290 is even more insane than it first sounded.

[mollusk]

HOV, HOT... since they're only separated by the letter U it gets very confusing.

[VinnyVincent]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:43 AM, Houston19514 said:

 

Try to keep up indeed.  Both the 290 HOV lane and the Katy managed lanes allow motorcycles free usage during all HOV hours.  Your statements to the contrary are false. The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open it is HOV.  It is impossible to use the 290 HOV lane in non-HOV hours. In fact, on the Katy managed lanes, motorcycles can ride free 12 hours each day, in both directions.  The 290 HOV lane only offers free motorcycle rides 6 hours in one direction and 7 hours in the other direction each day.  After examining the facts, your initial idea that HCTRA doesn't care about the lives of motorcycle riders because they don't let them ride free the way Metro does on 290 is even more insane than it first sounded.

Okay not sure where you got any of that from but if that's what you think after reading their website I think you may have some serious reading comprehension problems.

 

 but we aren't talking about HOV. We are talking about HOT hours. 290 is not ALWAYS HOV. What are you smoking? I ride past the sign that says "HOT: 5.00" daily.

 

motorcycles are free on 290 during HOV AND HOT hours.

 

They are not free on I-10 during their HOT hours.

 

 

Seems to me like you aren't understanding the info you are reading correctly. 

 

Let me guess; you don't even live in Houston either?

[cspwal]

Quote

Will motorcycles be allowed to use the Katy Managed Lanes?

 

Yes. Motorcycles qualify as HOV 2+ on the Katy Managed Lanes and may use the facility free of charge during HOV hours. Note: Motorcycles must pay a toll on all other Harris County Toll Road Authority facilities, as well as on the managed lanes during non-HOV hours. [Emphasis added]

 

https://www.hctra.org/KatyManagedLanes

 

That said, there are 5 free lanes next to the two 2 tolled managed lanes.  

 

The best way to think about it is the Katy Managed lanes are a tollroad that waives the tolls to high occupancy vehicles during peak travel hours.

US-290 has an HOV lane that during certain times of the day allows you to pay a toll to use as a single occupancy vehicle.

 

[VinnyVincent]

11 minutes ago, cspwal said:

 

https://www.hctra.org/KatyManagedLanes

 

That said, there are 5 free lanes next to the two 2 tolled managed lanes.  

 

The best way to think about it is the Katy Managed lanes are a tollroad that waives the tolls to high occupancy vehicles during peak travel hours.

US-290 has an HOV lane that during certain times of the day allows you to pay a toll to use as a single occupancy vehicle.

 

What you aren't understanding is the part that says "on all other harris county toll road authority facilities"

 

290 is not an HCTRA facility and therefor does not fall under that rule. 
It is free to use it during HOT hours on a motorcycle. End of story. I did it daily for years. Rode right past the metro police doing it...trust me its free.

[cspwal]

*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

[VinnyVincent]

Quote

2. Can carpools/vanpools/motorcycles still ride for free? 
Yes. The benefits of shared commuting remain the same. METRO HOT Lanes are designed to offer motorists another tool to add to their commute options.

That's from metro's HOT 290 FAQ.

 

http://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/HOVandHOTLanesFAQs.aspx

[VinnyVincent]

4 minutes ago, cspwal said:

*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

No worries I'm pretty sure Houston435438765298754 was just trolling/misleading people by making false claims to support his pro toll road bureaucrat agenda. I can see where you got mixed up for sure.

[VinnyVincent]

10 minutes ago, cspwal said:

*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

ANyhow I know we've gotten quite off topic but this was my original point that keeps getting disputed.

People asked why I dislike HCTRA and I told them they don't have the best interest of the public in mind.

 

A prime example would be the differing motorcycle policies when you compare HCTRA to METRO.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, VinnyVincent said:

Okay not sure where you got any of that from but if that's what you think after reading their website I think you may have some serious reading comprehension problems.

 

 but we aren't talking about HOV. We are talking about HOT hours. 290 is not ALWAYS HOV. What are you smoking? I ride past the sign that says "HOT: 5.00" daily.

 

motorcycles are free on 290 during HOV AND HOT hours.

 

They are not free on I-10 during their HOT hours.

 

 

Seems to me like you aren't understanding the info you are reading correctly. 

 

Let me guess; you don't even live in Houston either?

 

The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open, it is HOV.  The fact that there are a few hours during which it is ALSO HOT, does not change the fact that it is HOV during every hour during which it is open.

[Houston19514]

15 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

ANyhow I know we've gotten quite off topic but this was my original point that keeps getting disputed.

People asked why I dislike HCTRA and I told them they don't have the best interest of the public in mind.

 

A prime example would be the differing motorcycle policies when you compare HCTRA to METRO.

 

There is no differing motorcycle policy.  Both have their lanes open and free to motorcycles during every minute of every hour during which the lanes are open and operating as HOV lanes. 

[VinnyVincent]

5 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

There is no differing motorcycle policy.  Both have their lanes open and free to motorcycles during every minute of every hour during which the lanes are open and operating as HOV lanes. 

Let's not waste time arguing over senseless technicalities. effectively, you would have to pay to get on the I-10 managed lanes during certain times on a motorcycle, where you can ride on the 290 lanes anytime they are open.

 

Besides, it does not help your argument since you are now stating that HCTRA does not allow HOV PERIOD during toll hours. That's a lot worse than just cutting out motorcyclists.

I'm sure they argued the HOV point when they were lobbying for the I 10 lanes too then they turn around and pull that BS. What a disgrace.

[Houston19514]

28 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Let's not waste time arguing over senseless technicalities. effectively, you would have to pay to get on the I-10 managed lanes during certain times on a motorcycle, where you can ride on the 290 lanes anytime they are open.

 

Besides, it does not help your argument since you are now stating that HCTRA does not allow HOV PERIOD during toll hours. That's a lot worse than just cutting out motorcyclists.

I'm sure they argued the HOV point when they were lobbying for the I 10 lanes too then they turn around and pull that BS. What a disgrace.

 

LOL Senseless technicalities like the fact that the HOV motorcycle policies are exactly the same?  Senseless technicalities like the complete falsity of your statement that HCTRA doesn't "allow motorcycles on for free" when they in fact allow motorcycle on for free under exactly the same terms that Metro does on 290?  Stop posting lies and nonsense.  (Yes, that effectively means you should stop posting.)

 

 

[VinnyVincent]

12 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

LOL Senseless technicalities like the fact that the HOV motorcycle policies are exactly the same?  Senseless technicalities like the complete falsity of your statement that HCTRA doesn't "allow motorcycles on for free" when they in fact allow motorcycle on for free under exactly the same terms that Metro does on 290?  Stop posting lies and nonsense.  (Yes, that effectively means you should stop posting.)

 

 

Now you sound like a ridiculous child.

 

My original statement was and still is true. You can not ride a motorcycle on the I10 HOV lanes for free during HOT hours. Whether it's in a motorcycle or a multi passenger car.

You CAN ride on the 290 HOV lane during any time it is open, including HOT hours.

It's really simple;  Metro allows motorcycles on for free during HOT hours, HCTRA doesn't. No need to attempt to obscure that fact anymore than you already have. 

 

Stop trying to twist things around to discredit me and suit your bureaucrat troll road agenda. 

[Houston19514]

8 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Now you sound like a ridiculous child.

 

My original statement was and still is true. You can not ride a motorcycle on the I10 HOV lanes for free during HOT hours. Whether it's in a motorcycle or a multi passenger car.

You CAN ride on the 290 HOV lane during any time it is open, including HOT hours.

 

Stop trying to twist things around to discredit me and suit your bureaucrat troll road agenda. 

 

Didn't twist anything at all.  Just quoted what you said, which was and is false ( as are so many other things you've said).  And you CAN ride a motorcycle on the I-10 managed lanes during the HOT hours that are also HOV hours, just as you can on 290.  The motorcyles-ride-free policy on both is entirely based on HOV policies.  It has nothing to do with the HOT lane operations on either road.  The fact that the lanes also operate as HOT lanes and the hours in which they so operate is completely irrelevant to the motorcycles-ride-free policy on both systems.  I don't know why you think motorcycles should be entitled to ride free at times when all other vehicles are required to pay.

 

Again, contrary to your original claim (and contrary to your revised claim) motorcycles are treated exactly the same in both systems.  They get to ride free during HOV hours on both systems.  They get to ride free on both systems during HOV/HOT hours.  Period.  They do not ride free on either system during non-HOV hours.  The facts are neither childish nor mere senseless technicalities, but they are stubborn.

 

By the logic of your revised complaint, we'd be somehow better off if HCTRA closed its lanes during non-HOV hours. I doubt even you would actually pretend that is true.

[VinnyVincent]

6 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Didn't twist anything at all.  Just quoted what you said, which was and is false ( as are so many other things you said).

 

Again, contrary to your original claim (and contrary to your revised claim) motorcycles are treated exactly the same in both systems.  They get to ride free during HOV hours on both systems.  They get to ride free on both systems during HOV/HOT hours.  Period.  They do not ride free on either system during non-HOV hours.  The facts are neither childish nor mere senseless technicalities, but they are stubborn.

 

By the logic of your revised complaint, we'd be somehow better off if HCTRA closed its lanes during non-HOV hours. I doubt even you would actually pretend that is true.

And again,  your entire post has absolutely nothing to do with their policy regarding motorcycles during HOT hours. 

You accuse me of lying when you're the one trying to intentionally mislead and confuse people.

[VinnyVincent]

8 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

 They get to ride free on both systems during HOT hours.  Period.  

No. No they don't. Stop lying.

[VinnyVincent]

Here is some interesting discussion on this topic.

Apparently I'm not in the vast minority as Houston2048327507437 and iron tiger would have you all believe:

 

http://www.twtex.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-29701.html

[VinnyVincent]

More info for those of you who wonder why we pay taxes out the ass yet none of it seems to be going to any roads:

 

http://www.texasturf.org/2012-06-01-03-09-30/latest-news/2060-special-section-on-prop-1-fallout-as-oil-bust-means-less-money-for-roads

[IronTiger]

57 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Here is some interesting discussion on this topic.

Apparently I'm not in the vast minority as Houston2048327507437 and iron tiger would have you all believe:

 

http://www.twtex.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-29701.html

First off, just because you found some like-minded folks doesn't mean you're right.

 

Second off, you keep jumping between 290 and I-10 so many times my head is literally hurting, as well as constantly shifting between whether you ride during HOV or HOT hours. Are you trying to argue that you should be able to ride on the I-10 managed lanes for free 24/7? Are you trying to argue that you like the 290 lane because vehicles can't pass you? Hell if I know, that also changes.

 

In any case, the center managed lane when METRO stepped in to help out TxDOT with some repairs in exchange for adding a center bus lane, which was indeed built with FTA funds. It was always done with TxDOT with contributions from METRO. When the road was rebuilt, HCTRA contributed to the managed lanes, and METRO got to run buses for free on it because of the original FTA funds. Unlike what "drfood" said on that forum, the overengineered center lanes were NOT done with federal funding, that was all METRO's doing, and that's probably one reason why any additional light rails beyond the 2004 Red Line took so long to come to fruition.

 

http://d2dtl5nnlpfr0r.cloudfront.net/tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-6688-1.pdf

 

[cspwal]

I also would like to mention that "HOT" stands for "High Occupancy Toll".  Since outside of peak hours, the Katy tollway doesn't recognize high occupancy vehicles in the first place, its is confusing to call those "HOT" times.

[VinnyVincent]

35 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

First off, just because you found some like-minded folks doesn't mean you're right.

 

Second off, you keep jumping between 290 and I-10 so many times my head is literally hurting, as well as constantly shifting between whether you ride during HOV or HOT hours. Are you trying to argue that you should be able to ride on the I-10 managed lanes for free 24/7? Are you trying to argue that you like the 290 lane because vehicles can't pass you? Hell if I know, that also changes.

 

I'm only jumping back and forth because of your attempts to derail the thread.

 

The original point was that HCTRA needs to go away because they are more in line with private interests and not the public. A prime example was the fact that METRO runs the 290 HOT lanes and they allow motorcycles on them for free. 

In contrast HCTRA runs the I-10 HOT lanes and you have to pay to use those.

 

I'm not sure why you are confused as to whether I ride my motorcycle during HOV or HOT hours. The answer is both.

I generally ride during HOV hours in the morning(although sometimes I get on the road early so it's still HOT hours.)

and HOT hours in the afternoon(and the opposite can be true in the afternoons. Sometimes I work late so I ride during HOV hours)

 

You've mutated that into some retarded argument over technicalities, when the reality still remains that you cannot ride on a motorcycle for free in the I-10/Katy HOT lane, but you can on the 290 HOT.

 

 

In other words I know a lot more about commuting on the 290 HOV/HOT than you do, so you should hang that one up.

[VinnyVincent]

1 minute ago, cspwal said:

I also would like to mention that "HOT" stands for "High Occupancy Toll".  Since outside of peak hours, the Katy tollway doesn't recognize high occupancy vehicles in the first place, its is confusing to call those "HOT" times.

I'd wager that it is intentionally made confusing to distract people from the facts. Similar to what Houston3408214732 has done in this thread.

[IronTiger]

3 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

I'm only jumping back and forth because of your attempts to derail the thread.

 

The original point was that HCTRA needs to go away because they are more in line with private interests and not the public. A prime example was the fact that METRO runs the 290 HOT lanes and they allow motorcycles on them for free. 

In contrast HCTRA runs the I-10 HOT lanes and you have to pay to use those.

 

I'm not sure why you are confused as to whether I ride my motorcycle during HOV or HOT hours. The answer is both.

I generally ride during HOV hours in the morning(although sometimes I get on the road early so it's still HOT hours.)

and HOT hours in the afternoon(and the opposite can be true in the afternoons. Sometimes I work late so I ride during HOV hours)

 

You've mutated that into some retarded argument over technicalities, when the reality still remains that you cannot ride on a motorcycle for free in the I-10/Katy HOT lane, but you can on the 290 HOT.

 

 

In other words I know a lot more about commuting on the 290 HOV/HOT than you do, so you should hang that one up.

 

I did not derail the thread, you did, and I can find out where that did happen. In any case, let me get this straight.

 

- You ride your motorcycle for free on METRO's 290 HOV lane during the HOV times. Check. Got it. You do not ride it on the off-hours because it closed on the off-hours.

- You ride your motorcycle for free on HCTRA's Katy Managed Lanes during the HOV times. Check. Got it. You want to ride it on the off-hours but it has a toll, making it "invalid" somehow.

 

Along these lines, you've dragged a variety of issues into this, like how "HCTRA doesn't care about motorcyclists" or something along those lines. Based on everything you've said about the KML and the Beltway, I think the conclusion is because you ride a motorcycle, that you're entitled to ride free wherever, whenever.