HEB At 2300 N. Shepherd Dr.

[s3mh]

On 9/19/2016 at 8:39 PM, Ross said:

So, you are effectively saying that your judgement is superior to the judgement of the folks who are actually willing to risk their money on an actual development. I suppose that if the sort of effete snob development you want failed, you would be willing to make the people who lost money whole. I bet the proposed development has full parking lots once it's completed, with lots of cars from the Greater Heights area, owned by people who are thrilled they no longer have to drive to more remote centers.

So, you are effectively saying that the judgment of someone who has access to a big bag of money from a group of East Coast investors who will never set foot in Houston is superior to the people who actually made the largest investment in their lives in this community.  I suppose the sort of effete snob East Coast investor you worship laughs when they think about people in Houston wanting something better than a generic pre-pack suburban big box development that does not have the easy investor metrics (car trips+Target sales=big boxes) that brain dead developers and their investors think is the gospel.  I am sure that anyone from the Heights that is excited about saving 10-15 minutes on a four times a year trip to big box stores is probably the same ones thrilled to chase new restaurants out of the neighborhood because the patrons park in front of their house.

[s3mh]

On 9/19/2016 at 2:37 PM, Angostura said:

 

...which is why Regent Square is always packed.

 

 

 

 

Here's the list of retailers at City Centre: 

 

Allen Edmonds, 
Anthropologie
bevello
Charming Charlie
Elaine Turner
Eye Couture
Free People
H&M
ivivva
J. Crew
Kendra Scott
lululemon athletica
Madewell
Muir Fine Art Gallery
OLIVE & VINE
Paper Source
Sephora
Sur La Table
Urban Outfitters
West Elm
Z Gallerie

 

 

None of these are local, one-of-a-kind shops, and most of them have other locations in Houston.

 

I think the ability to draw unique, high-end retail to a site surrounded on four sides by a freeway, an active freight rail line, a grocery store parking lot and the ass end of a Target, by saying it's pedestrian friendly from the Heights and downtown, may be limited. 

 

 

 

 

Regency Square's problems have little to do with supply and demand for retail development inside the loop.  And, no.  The point is not that a City Centre Jr. development would fill up with the kind of local restaurants and retail that make the Heights great.  The point is to provide an escape valve for all the building pressure on retail rents in the Heights.  All the landlords for retail leaseholds in the Heights think that they are going to start getting national and regional retail chains and have boosted retail rents through the roof.  A big mixed use development at the Tarkett site would take a lot of pressure off of retail rents in the Heights and keep the neighborhood from filling up with national and regional brands to the exclusion of the massive amount of local talent that we have.  The Radoms and Brauns who actively curate their developments to fit the neighborhood are a rare breed who will not be around in the Heights for much longer if all the big lots in the area go the way of Katyville.

[Angostura]

5 hours ago, HeightsPeep said:

Why would anyone vote to allow a single large business to blow open the entire dry area?  What comes next for the residents?  The bungalow next door is for sale.  Will it turn into a wine and beer shop?  Be clear - No zoning means anything can happen.  Let's not kill the few protections we do have today.  Montrose did not have those protections.  Do you want to live in Montrose today?  Twenty years ago, the Heights and Montrose were much more similar.  Not so today.  Quite a few people have moved from Montrose to the Heights just to escape the ills that come with not having a dry area.  Just look at the crime stats if you are not sure.

 

 

The beer bungalows don't appear to have invaded Woodland Heights, Norhill or the other parts of the greater Heights that are outside the dry area.

 

 

[Triton]

9 hours ago, s3mh said:

So, you are effectively saying that the judgment of someone who has access to a big bag of money from a group of East Coast investors who will never set foot in Houston is superior to the people who actually made the largest investment in their lives in this community.  I suppose the sort of effete snob East Coast investor you worship laughs when they think about people in Houston wanting something better than a generic pre-pack suburban big box development that does not have the easy investor metrics (car trips+Target sales=big boxes) that brain dead developers and their investors think is the gospel.  I am sure that anyone from the Heights that is excited about saving 10-15 minutes on a four times a year trip to big box stores is probably the same ones thrilled to chase new restaurants out of the neighborhood because the patrons park in front of their house.

Orrrr.... perhaps they like both? Trying new restaurants and coffee shops, but also liking to get some affordable clothing at Ross? Or perhaps there's a perfect mix of people in the area that can support both? If you think the Heights is going to lose all it's small pop shops because of this development, there's tons more development that you would like coming to this area than the big box retail. There's Sawyer Yards, Studemont Junction, Regent Square, the Midway development on Washington, Lovett's post office property, a shopping center on 11th at the old post office site, shopping center at old pappa's warehouse, a hip shopping center coming at Ella and 34th, and then there's downtown Heights itself which isn't going away but is ever growing... plus not to mention all the cool and trendy restaurants along Shepherd, White Oak, and 20th. The list just goes on and on. This one development is not going to destroy the Heights, just how the Walmart didn't destroy the Heights. I think we'll be just fine with all this mix of different types of retail.

 

And if these big box stores are dying, then shouldn't they not have a big bag of money, based on your logic?

[Angostura]

Sample ballots are now available, and addresses within the dry area should have the local option measure on the ballot. (Mine does.)

[Triton]

On 9/21/2016 at 9:43 AM, HeightsPeep said:

Why would anyone vote to allow a single large business to blow open the entire dry area?  What comes next for the residents?  The bungalow next door is for sale.  Will it turn into a wine and beer shop?  Be clear - No zoning means anything can happen.  Let's not kill the few protections we do have today.  Montrose did not have those protections.  Do you want to live in Montrose today?  Twenty years ago, the Heights and Montrose were much more similar.  Not so today.  Quite a few people have moved from Montrose to the Heights just to escape the ills that come with not having a dry area.  Just look at the crime stats if you are not sure.

Because people believe in the free market and we don't live in the Prohibition era anymore. Woodland Heights area resident here... we're doing just fine without dry laws and I'm sure the Heights will survive too. 

[s3mh]

http://theleadernews.com/confirmed-heb-picks-heights-spot/

 

Ballot measure should now read: "Proposition to have HEB in the Heights".  

[Angostura]

21 hours ago, s3mh said:

http://theleadernews.com/confirmed-heb-picks-heights-spot/

 

Ballot measure should now read: "Proposition to have HEB in the Heights".  

 

 

That wording would win by 60 points. The current wording is actually: "The legal sale of beer and wine for off-premise consumption only."

 

I'm terrified that people may take this to mean that the ballot measure IMPOSES prohibition rather than partially repealing it.

 

 

[Angostura]

HEB confirms that it won't invest in a dry store on this site, surprising no one.

 

Heights busybodies are outraged, and accuse HEB of corporate blackmail, also surprising no one.

 

 

This is the one result of election 2016 that could potentially make me happy and people are determined to ruin it.

 

 

[Angostura]

58 minutes ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

HEB signed a ground lease agreement with 2ML Real Estate Interests, Inc last week. 2ML owns the 4.132 acres that Fiesta sat on (W 23rd Street and N Shepherd, W 24th and Lawrence St). The lease agreement was filed with Harris County Clerk offices October 11 and is available on the website.

 

The document filed with the clerk is a memorandum of the lease agreement, not the full lease agreement, to which reference is made in the memorandum. (I checked because I was curious about a potential opt-out clause in the event the local option election fails.)

[Angostura]

Variance requests signs have been posted at this site, apparently regarding a reduction in building line. 

 

[Texasota]

That's one of my two favorite variances!

[Angostura]

15 hours ago, Texasota said:

That's one of my two favorite variances!

 

Oooh, what's the other one? Mine is off-street parking.

[Triton]

2 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

Oooh, what's the other one? Mine is off-street parking.

It's getting too hot in here.

[Angostura]

On 10/31/2016 at 8:28 AM, Angostura said:

Variance requests signs have been posted at this site, apparently regarding a reduction in building line. 

 

 

The request is to reduce the building line on Shepherd to 10-ft, with the parking structure built right next to the sidewalk, rather than a row of surface parking between the sidewalk and the parking structure on the side facing Shepherd. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ctaf]

I was hoping for something that looked like the Montrose HEB, but this looks like a giant concrete wall. why not bring the store closer to Shepherd and push the garage further back? Is Lake Flato not involved with this

[Angostura]

Don't know if this is the final design or whether it's just representative for the purposes of the variance request, but it looks very similar to the renderings for the Bellaire store. 

 

I think Lake Flato has only done a couple of their stores: Montrose and one in Austin.

 

 

 

[s3mh]

That may be the worst grocery store design ever.  The first two story grocery store HEB built was in San Antonio.  That one is similar, but has the entrance to the store fronting the street.  It looks like pedestrians on N. Shep will have to walk through the parking garage to the rear of the lot to get to the entrance to the store.  And for those who were hoping on an improvement over the used car lots on N. Shep, this just doubles down by lining the street with two floors of parking facing the street.  Sure, N. Shep is not Rodeo Dr., but that doesn't mean that new development shouldn't even try.  

[Angostura]

59 minutes ago, s3mh said:

That may be the worst grocery store design ever.  

 

 

 

- Limited setbacks

- Wide pedestrian realm

- Zero surface parking

- 60+ new street trees

 

Ticks a lot of boxes.

 

The main pedestrian entrances appear to be on 23rd and 24th streets, where pedestrians will have to cross two rows of parking between the sidewalk and the ground floor lobby.

 

[s3mh]

1 hour ago, Angostura said:

 

 

 

- Limited setbacks

- Wide pedestrian realm

- Zero surface parking

- 60+ new street trees

 

Ticks a lot of boxes.

 

The main pedestrian entrances appear to be on 23rd and 24th streets, where pedestrians will have to cross two rows of parking between the sidewalk and the ground floor lobby.

 

Limited setbacks and wide sidewalks are completely meaningless when there is no retail fronting the street.  Compare Whole Foods on Waugh with this crap sandwich.  When you walk along Waugh, you come up on an outdoor eating area and can walk right into the store from the sidewalk.  Same design layout for the Central Market.  When you walk up N. Shep to this thing, you walk right up to a parking garage and have to walk down the side street to get to an entrance to the rear of the garage.  If they have any room for picnic tables outside it will probably be on the top of the garage in front of the store.  The only advantage to this design is that it can be shown to students of New Urbanism as an example of what they should never ever do.

[Angostura]

WF on Waugh and CM on Westheimer have the following in common:

 

- 100% surface parking

- The long side of the site fronting the major street\

 

Neither applies to this site. Those stores set their main entrances facing the parking lot, and neither can be reasonably described as street facing.

 

 

 

For this size store on this size site, you basically have three options:

 

1 - Store over parking structure

2 - Parking structure over store

3 - Parking structure next to store

 

The Heights & Washington store will be option 2: The store entrance behind two rows of surface parking, with 1-1/2 floors of parking above the store (on the same footprint), then 4 floors of apartments on top of that. When the footprint of the store is (basically) the entirety of the site, it's easy to make the entrance face the street without alienating the majority of shoppers who arrive by car. When, as on Shep & 23rd, the store takes up a much smaller proportion of the total site area, doing parking above the store would probably result in a big surface lot, with some additional spaces on top of a concrete building (see Sprouts on Yale for an example).  The ceiling height of a grocery store is going to be very different than a parking garage, so doing store + parking on the ground floor, then all parking on the 2nd floor is tricky.

 

Doing a parking structure next to the store, with the store itself set as close as allowable to Shepherd, would probably require the main entrance to either face the parking structure, or, best case, 23rd or 24th St. You'd still need a setback variance to make this site plan viable, and you'd still have, essentially, a blank wall facing Shepherd. Plus you have a somewhat awkward main entrance/exit, with most people wanting to both enter AND exit through a single corner of the building. This is unusual in grocery store layouts for obvious reasons.

 

If this site is only going to have a 90k s.f. grocery store (no additional retail, no residential), this plan (store over parking structure) is probably the best of the three options. By placing the store over the parking, instead of vice-versa, the architect has a broader set of choices for building materials for the store itself (i.e. not limited to concrete) and can design a lighter-feeling structure than would be possible if there were cars on the roof.

[HeightsPeep]

What an awful design!  That part of the Heights is being treated like disliked step children.

[Angostura]

FWIW, variance request signage was removed from the property, and the request appears to have been withdrawn for now:

 

Quote

In an email Tuesday, McClelland said it was pulled "because it would be premature to consider design until we see the outcome of today's vote."

 

 

 

[mollusk]

1 hour ago, Angostura said:

FWIW, variance request signage was removed from the property, and the request appears to have been withdrawn for now:

 

 

 

 

 

Or maybe they heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing on HAIF and decided to try to rearrange it a bit...

 

Another alternative would be to bury the under store parking, like the Midtown Randall's. 

[Angostura]

22 hours ago, mollusk said:

 

Or maybe they heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing on HAIF and decided to try to rearrange it a bit...

 

Another alternative would be to bury the under store parking, like the Midtown Randall's. 

 

...or like the WF on Post Oak.

 

Problem on this site is you'd still have a bunch of surface parking, since the lot is 180k s.f. and the store is only 90k. (The midtown Randall's is on a ~90k s.f. lot.)

 

The site is too small for a typical suburban store, and too large for a typical urban one, unless you add a ton more retail or a multifamily component, which the neighborhood would freak out about.

[Angostura]

HEB will host a public meeting to give an update on this store at the Heights Fire Station (12th & Yale) on Wed, 14 Dec, at 6:30.

 

 

 

[Angostura]

On 12/8/2016 at 2:19 PM, Angostura said:

HEB will host a public meeting to give an update on this store at the Heights Fire Station (12th & Yale) on Wed, 14 Dec, at 6:30.

 

 

Scott McClelland presented slightly updated versions of the renderings in the original variance request and explained their reasoning for wanting the 10-ft setback rather than the 25-ft setback required in Ch 42. Basically it provides a more "urban-feeling" streetscape while allowing them a few more parking spaces on the upper deck. 

 

HEB Sr Due Diligence Manager John Rose also fielded a number of questions, and a handful of other HEB folks were present.

 

Some other issues that came up:

 

• HEB will submit plans by 19Dec, for consideration at the 5Jan meeting of the planning commission.
• Tentative opening date is March, 2018
• Construction costs will be ~$35M
• Traffic Impact Analysis is already underway. John Rose went into some detail about how they do these studies, including studying circulation inside the parking lot.
• Store will be 87,000 s.f., falling somewhere in between Montrose (80k) and San Felipe @ Fountainview (99k).
• Scott seemed acutely aware of his competition 11 blocks down the street, especially w/r/t getting in and out of the store
• Texas has outlawed "travelators", so these are no longer part of the design. There will be a normal "up" escalator from the ground floor parking to the store, and tandem "down" escalators (one for people, one for carts), as well as 3 hospital-sized elevators.
• The parking lot will use full cut-off lighting, deployed at modest height (12-14 feet) to limit light pollution.
• There will be lighting on the underside of the street-facing awnings to provide illumination for pedestrians.
• The ground floor parking spaces will have red/green over-space lights to indicate available spaces
• Large delivery trucks will back up a ramp to a loading dock on the Lawrence-St side of the property. There will be a decorative wall obscuring the loading docks and for noise abatement.
• Pharmacy will be on the ground floor (potentially with drive-thru), everything else will be on the second floor.
• HEB looked at placing retail or a coffee shop at street facing location, but given how their customers tend to interact with their stores, concluded it wasn't feasible. (WF on Waugh apparently came to a similar conclusion when they removed the picnic space in the far corner of the parking lot).
• In addition to bike racks on the sidewalk, there will be a large bike rack on the ground floor near the elevators/escalators (looked like 30+ spaces)
• There will be a competition for an art piece/sculpture at the corner of Shepherd and 23rd. HEB will select a handful of finalists and nearby residents will vote on the winner.

 

 

[IronTiger]

17 minutes ago, Angostura said:

 

 

• Texas has outlawed "travelators", so these are no longer part of the design. There will be a normal "up" escalator from the ground floor parking to the store, and tandem "down" escalators (one for people, one for carts), as well as 3 hospital-sized elevators.

 

 

Wait, what? Why?

[Angostura]

Just now, IronTiger said:

 

Wait, what? Why?

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Apparently there have been incidents. 

[IronTiger]

6 minutes ago, Angostura said:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Apparently there have been incidents. 

I can't find anything related to "moving sidewalk" or "travelator" ban in Texas through Google.