The Driscoll High-Rise & River Oaks Shopping Center Developments

[nmainguy]

Your pictures are apples and oranges though... on two lots with such lack of depth, you're not going to have it replaced with a big box store with a sea of parking in the front.

I posted the 2 picture because both are Weingarten owned. It's indicative of where there aesthetics lie.

Don't be surprised if they build that big hulk of a B & N backed up to the furthest N property line with a sea of parking accessable from W. Gray and Shepherd-just like most B & N's.

I think you and I are basically on the same page, However. I have no problem with redeveloping portions-I have a problem with the sensibilities of the people doing it.

BTW, I do think at the present moment their intent is to tear down the theatre. They did it in the Village despite some very vocal protests.

gulp! i'm still sucking at its teet!. LOL

BACH!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 27, 2006 by nmainguy

[patsy]

Looks like a gas station maybe.

I remember from the 1950's that two gas stations were at these locations, then a bank on the south side of West Gray and I can't remember what was on the north side until Starbuck's appeared. I remember Mading's Drugstore was in Black Eyed Pea location.

This Weingarten's proposal is the most depressing bit of news I can imagine. I think the River Oaks Theater is the only original tenant left. The Center is fast becoming a cookie cutter collection of clothing franchises. Let's preserve the original character of at least one neighborhood for our children.

[gonzo1976]

I remember from the 1950's that two gas stations were at these locations, then a bank on the south side of West Gray and I can't remember what was on the north side until Starbuck's appeared.

I could be wrong, but I think the gas station was torn down and converted into a parking lot until the Starbucks was built from the ground up.

Let's preserve the original character of at least one neighborhood for our children.

I agree!

[jscarbor]

Maybe we can buy the center and save the theatre? =)

Hey, I love RO Theatre but if Weingartens owns the place shouldn't they be allowed to do what they want no matter how much we dislike it? The theatre is great for the area and preservation is my preference. That being said preservation might lose to the $ if I were the owner.

[ricco67]

Maybe we can buy the center and save the theatre? =)

Hey, I love RO Theatre but if Weingartens owns the place shouldn't they be allowed to do what they want no matter how much we dislike it? The theatre is great for the area and preservation is my preference. That being said preservation might lose to the $ if I were the owner.

now THAT would be interesting.

we would pool together our "investment" money and enter our own partnership and dole out the profits according to the size of the initial investment.

Pool it together via paypal? LOL It would be the most unconventional partnership EVER.

[ssullivan]

After reading this morning's article in the Chronicle, I'm even more distressed about this proposal. A few months back when shopping in the River Oaks Center I wondered why it was taking so long to fill some of the vacant spaces, given the center's superb location and constant high traffic levels. Now it makes sense. Weingarten probably has no desire to fill the spaces that have vacated in the last couple of years because it makes it that much easier to tear the place down and rebuild.

I really don't see what's wrong with the center in its current form. Surely they can redevelop parts of the existing structure, but keep the exteriors intact, to allow for a different mix of tenants if that's the goal. The theatre may not be hugely profitable, but it doesn't appear to be a money loser either, and there's always lines out front waiting at the box office on weekends. The theatre patrons also generate a lot of business for the nearby restaurants as well, and keep the place hopping in the evenings after many of the retail businesses have closed for the night.

And why would Barnes & Noble want to move up the street from the Alabama? The River Oaks Center has more foot traffic, because it's larger, but the Alabama Bookstop never seems deserted when I'm in there. That center could use a little help now that Cactus has closed, but how hard could it be to find something successful to fill that space?

The thought of the River Oaks Theatre closing, losing the original structures of the River Oaks Center, and losing the Alabama Theatre Bookstop is sickening. I'll be firing off my e-mails of disgust to Weingarten today. This is nothing but greed. There is no way the River Oaks Center is losing money in its current form. It just looks like someone at Weingarten has found a way they think they can generate even more profits from the center.

[MidtownCoog]

Hey, I love RO Theatre but if Weingartens owns the place shouldn't they be allowed to do what they want no matter how much we dislike it?

Well of course. But Houston made the Weingartens and Co.

Is this how they show respect?

[sunsets]

Maybe we can buy the center and save the theatre? =)

If there's enough support and organization, it's possible to run a theater like this as a non-profit.

Here's an example from Ann Arbor, MI. Check out the history page if you want to see how close it came to being destroyed. I think most of the current revenue comes from memberships and sposorships, as well as ticket sales.

It's a stunning place, and it took years to restore it to its former glory, but it's the best place in town to see a movie. It anchors the "State Street" area of Ann Arbor - the Border's #1 store is across the street, and an American Apparel opened up next to it last year.

[sevfiv]

here's a petition to be submitted by the end of the year to weingarten:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/riveroaks/

[HeightsGuy]

If there's enough support and organization, it's possible to run a theater like this as a non-profit.

Here's an example from Ann Arbor, MI. Check out the history page if you want to see how close it came to being destroyed. I think most of the current revenue comes from memberships and sposorships, as well as ticket sales.

It's a stunning place, and it took years to restore it to its former glory, but it's the best place in town to see a movie. It anchors the "State Street" area of Ann Arbor - the Border's #1 store is across the street, and an American Apparel opened up next to it last year.

The running of the theater is not the issue. Landmark is doing fine, the issue is that the landlord may kick them out.

<Sigh> I hope this doesn't happen. If it does part of me hopes they take it completely down so I don't have to remember every time I drive past like I do when I drive by the old Bellaire theater.

[Gary]

here's a petition to be submitted by the end of the year to weingarten:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/riveroaks/

Just signed it.

[nmainguy]

Just signed it.

Ditto. I also emailed GHPA asking if they are going to take any action.

mailto:info@ghpa.org

[nmainguy]

Here's the reply to my email to GHPA:

Hi, Tom.

Thank you for writing.

Houston's preservation ordinance requires owner approval for a property to be designated a Protected Landmark. Weingarten Realty is not going to have their properties designated.

Theoretically, City Council could designate the River Oaks Theater and Shopping Center without owner approval, but that would require that they go against the wishes of a major real estate developer. That is extremely unlikely to happen.

David Bush

Director, Programs and Information

Greater Houston Preservation Alliance

It would be great if City Council could grow a spine on this one.

[GoAtomic]

Here's the reply to my email to GHPA:

It would be great if City Council could grow a spine on this one.

Does anyone know who the District Representative for this area is? They are a critical link to City Council on hot neighborhood issues, could possibly help the cause.

I still think Mayor White is the key - he definitely has the chutzpah to weigh in on the RIGHT side of this issue, if given a logical reason to do so.

[nmainguy]

Does anyone know who the District Representative for this area is? They are a critical link to City Council on hot neighborhood issues, could possibly help the cause.

I still think Mayor White is the key - he definitely has the chutzpah to weigh in on the RIGHT side of this issue, if given a logical reason to do so.

District D Council Member Ada Edwards

Phone: 713.247.2001

FAX: 713.247.2196

districtd@cityofhouston.net

Mayor White

mayor@cityofhouston.net <mayor@cityofhouston.net>

[H-Town Man]

It would be nice if Mayor White were to get involved. I know this isn't typical for a Houston mayor, and there's really nothing obliging him to, but I just can't help thinking that if a major landmark in a place like Chicago were in jeopardy, you KNOW Mayor Daley would be all over it, flexing his muscle and protecting his city's interests.

[heights_yankee]

This is a C&P from another website I am on, but I thought y'all would like to see it. If it belongs on another part of the forum, please feel free to move it:

If you didn't see the article in the Chronicle, tenants of the River Oaks Shopping Center on West Gray have been informed by the owner of the property that much of the property on the corner of West Gray and Shepherd will be razed in order to put in a high-rise residential building and, of all things, a Barnes and Noble.

They plan to demolish the entire center on both the south and north sides of Gray, including Black Eyed Pea, Three Brothers Bakery and, worst of all, River Oaks Theater, a Houston landmark. To make matters worse, because Barnes and Noble owns Bookstop, many also fear they will eliminate the Bookstop inside the old Alabama Theater building on Shepherd and Alabama and demolish that as well. That Bookstop won awards for its unique preservation of the classic theater.

Losing the River Oaks Center and the River Oaks Theater is unacceptable. A petition drive has begun at the link below. Please visit the link, sign the petition and pass the information along to as many concerned people as possible. You can also get more information through the links below. Thanks!

Sign Petition Here

[lilyheights]

This is terrible. I think "Remember the Bellaire" is perfect. Destroyed to make a kids indoor play area that lasted five minutes... now the RO.

True, the upstairs seating isn't the best for long legs, but I endured it many a time just to see a good film for a change. And, if you were on top of things, you'd catch your film when it was still downstairs.

It is just sad.

[Highway6]

the petition has alreayd been passed around on the other RO theatre thread.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Highway6

[bachanon]

thank you lilyheights.

i wrote mayor white and signed the petition.

when i was young and thought preservationists were unreasonable, i was having my fun at the river oaks and marfreless. i do not disregard preservationists any longer. i have memories there. i take visitors there. it is a part of my "town". it is a destination.

weingarten is a fool if they muck it up.

REMEMBER THE BELLAIRE!!!!!

Edited July 24, 2006 by bachanon

[H-Town Man]

What's the story on the Bellaire? Does anyone have a picture or postcard (Subdude)?

[lilyheights]

This topic is being discussed on a thread under the Montrose area. Names and contact e-mails provided for various people, general grumbling, etc. Get over there and add your .02.

[KinkaidAlum]

The West Gray Shopping Center is something I am proud of. I take out of town guests there all the time as it is one of the few places that is unique to Houston. An indie movie house, Tony Mandola's Gulf Coast Kitchen, Events, the Laff Stop, and a few other "oldtimer" places are etched in my memory.

The palm trees and downtown backdrop are stunning. The architecture is beautiful and the entire scene comes across as rather stately.

[heights_yankee]

This topic is being discussed on a thread under the Montrose area. Names and contact e-mails provided for various people, general grumbling, etc. Get over there and add your .02.

I wish I could, but I am limited to message boards that are already in my cache. Thanks, new firewall!

[KinkaidAlum]

Hey Heights-

The topic is being discussed on this board...Just open the Montrose area section.

Howdy from Beantown

[uncertaintraveler]

After I don my flame-retardant suit....

Personally, I'm all for building a high-rise condo on West Gray. It would have an incredible location, being within walking distance to a supermarket, retail shops, parks, and could possibly have an amazing view, although traffic could be a little rough at times. The only downside, for me, would be that any new condo would probably be out of my price range.

As another poster said earlier, are you people distraught because of the potential loss of a theater's facade, or because a few starbucks and an eatery or two are going to be displaced? If it is the former, well, good grief, get over it and just build your own "historic" theater facade somewhere. There is plenty of land in Houston for you to build it...

To me, it is the height of hypocrisy to claim that losing the River Oaks theater would be a travesty and to demand the preservation of a place that probably no more than 1% of Houstonians ever set foot in...while, at the same time (but in a different thread, of course), whine about new housing development that doesn't incorporate retail in its plans. I drive by the River Oaks theater at least once a week, and I've never seen a line of people outside waiting to get in...nor have I ever figured out where the movie-goers would park their car if they even wanted to see a movie there. It seems to me it is a theater whose time has passed, and it passed a long time ago.

I'll admit that the theater is pretty, but so what? The future development plans could, in the end, be just as pretty, and could represent the perfect marriage of great housing and great retail.

Apparently, however, most people here would rather save what appears to be a pretty front and a (from what I read here) a middling interior, just to maintain a "historic landmark" that has no such real historic status to speak of.

[sevfiv]

What's the story on the Bellaire? Does anyone have a picture or postcard (Subdude)?

here is a cool picture:

http://www.hollywoodframegallery.com/koehn/theater3.jpg

[lilyheights]

After I don my flame-retardant suit....

Personally, I'm all for building a high-rise condo on West Gray. It would have an incredible location, being within walking distance to a supermarket, retail shops, parks, and could possibly have an amazing view, although traffic could be a little rough at times. The only downside, for me, would be that any new condo would probably be out of my price range.

As another poster said earlier, are you people distraught because of the potential loss of a theater's facade, or because a few starbucks and an eatery or two are going to be displaced? If it is the former, well, good grief, get over it and just build your own "historic" theater facade somewhere. There is plenty of land in Houston for you to build it...

To me, it is the height of hypocrisy to claim that losing the River Oaks theater would be a travesty and to demand the preservation of a place that probably no more than 1% of Houstonians ever set foot in...while, at the same time (but in a different thread, of course), whine about new housing development that doesn't incorporate retail in its plans. I drive by the River Oaks theater at least once a week, and I've never seen a line of people outside waiting to get in...nor have I ever figured out where the movie-goers would park their car if they even wanted to see a movie there. It seems to me it is a theater whose time has passed, and it passed a long time ago.

I'll admit that the theater is pretty, but so what? The future development plans could, in the end, be just as pretty, and could represent the perfect marriage of great housing and great retail.

Apparently, however, most people here would rather save what appears to be a pretty front and a (from what I read here) a middling interior, just to maintain a "historic landmark" that has no such real historic status to speak of.

It's time has not passed. You don't get it. It doesn't show current movies. It is one of a handful of theatres that shows movies that a small, but significant, portion of the Houston population wants to see. And, it is a great venue to see these movies.

What percentage of Houston goes to any one theatre? This city is sooo big, I bet any one theatre doesn't draw that high of a percentage. What percentage of people who want to see something besides Pirates go to the RO? Probably quite a lot. That argument is silly.

It isn't about the facade, although it is cool. It is about a way of life. It is a difference in taste in movies. This is our thing and you don't have to like it or even understand it. I'm not going to close down the Alley b/c most people in this city have never seen a live play in their home town.

[bachanon]

come on.............

the facade is the physical symbol. the space is a surreal reminder of time passed. we exist and are strengthed because of our perception of the world we live in. the world in which we have lived is a comfort.

do not take away the space that involves so many houstonians. our world view and personal comfort are manifest in the space that is the river oaks theatre. destroy it........destroy houstonian personality. you destroy the river oaks, you destroy houston.

REMEMBER THE BELLAIRE!!!!!

Edited September 15, 2006 by bachanon

[uncertaintraveler]

It's time has not passed. You don't get it. It doesn't show current movies. It is one of a handful of theatres that shows movies that a small, but significant, portion of the Houston population wants to see. And, it is a great venue to see these movies.

What percentage of Houston goes to any one theatre? This city is sooo big, I bet any one theatre doesn't draw that high of a percentage. What percentage of people who want to see something besides Pirates go to the RO? Probably quite a lot. That argument is silly.

It isn't about the facade, although it is cool. It is about a way of life. It is a difference in taste in movies. This is our thing and you don't have to like it or even understand it. I'm not going to close down the Alley b/c most people in this city have never seen a live play in their home town.

I don't get it? Really? What is it that don't I get?

That people would rather hinder development than risk their own money to build their own theater...especially when such a theater could be "a great venue" to see certain types of movies?

That the city of Houston should concern itself with, and divert limited resources to, saving one building that very few people truly care about instead of, say, building a rail system, eliminating substandard housing, reducing levels of homelessness, providing world-class infrastructure, etc...any one of which will benefit a far greater segment of the community than the theater ever will?

That some patron's "way of life" should trump whatever a landowner, or in this case, a landlord, wishes to do with their own property?

Seriously, if it it isn't about the facade of the theater, then build your own theater that shows the same type of movies. And if it is about the facade, then just offer to relocate the theater to somewhere else. I fail to see the problem with either of these options, except, of course, it requires you (not personally, mind you, but "you" as in the people who are complaining here) to actually take some risk.

But if this is really all about keeping a building from being constructed or about a dislike for a landowner's potential use of his land, and somehow I think that is what it boils down to, then just get over it....because the ability to do whatever you want with your land, without having to consult your neighbors or patrons, is what makes owning property and living in Houston so great.