august948 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I read today that in France some are saying the Friday 13th attacks will change things in France more than 9/11 changed the US. President Hollande is calling this an act of war. Anonymous has also declared war, saying they will hunt ISIS down. Of course, Anonymous has also declared war on the US government in the past. France's Front National is getting some play. Think things will change in Europe or is this just a blip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Borders being closed down is probably here to stay, unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think the xenophobia has been building for a long time in Europe. Immigrants from the Middle East and Africa have been moving to European countries for long time now. Most of them are moving to make better lives, but of course there are bad apples. They exist in every country, every race, every culture, every religion, everywhere. I actually met a Syrian refugee in Cologne last year. She was a bartender who's smile lit up the room. She was kind, funny, told me her story. I know her case is as special and unique as everyone else's, but the majority of the people I have met are normal and kind human beings who want to escape war. Wouldn't you? That being said these attacks are unfortunately fuel for a growing fire of fear and intolerance of Muslims & Islam in general. Terrorism is horrible and people willing to commit these crimes should pay the ultimate price. But Terrorism is not just an Islamic thing. I hope the victim's families can find peace again one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Borders being closed down is probably here to stay, unfortunately Why unfortunately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well, Europe has had the benefits of open borders, allowing tourists and others to see Europe relatively easily without border crossings.Would be nice if America had the same type of trust again, but it looks like its over for Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well, Europe has had the benefits of open borders, allowing tourists and others to see Europe relatively easily without border crossings.Would be nice if America had the same type of trust again, but it looks like its over for Europe. As long as you have a passport from a certain country getting across Europe borders should not have been a problem, correct? Maybe it took a little longer but you were still able to cross. How come you'd like it to be easier to get into the United States? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 As long as you have a passport from a certain country getting across Europe borders should not have been a problem, correct? Maybe it took a little longer but you were still able to cross.How come you'd like it to be easier to get into the United States?Isn't that the whole point of the "American Dream"? To start over in a nation that won't kill you, your family, and everything else because you're apart of a different sect of the same religion?Isn't that what Anerica stands for? We are still a World Police (for better or worse) and honestly, not to bring up religion, but isn't it the "Christian" thing to do? To turn to the poor, the needy, the helpless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Borders being closed down is probably here to stay, unfortunately I'd bet not, since they've got the Schengen Agreement in place. I suspect policy will turn towards trying to stem the flow at the borders of Europe. Probably also tighter internal security measures, particularly with regards to weapons. From what I've been reading, Belgium is a center for the illegal arms trade. Given Europe's differnent attitude towards guns, I'd guess they'll crack down hard on access to weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Isn't that the whole point of the "American Dream"? To start over in a nation that won't kill you, your family, and everything else because you're apart of a different sect of the same religion?Isn't that what Anerica stands for? We are still a World Police (for better or worse) and honestly, not to bring up religion, but isn't it the "Christian" thing to do? To turn to the poor, the needy, the helpless? You make a good point. However, is the American Dream an entitlement? Are people who want to take in the refugees not at all concerned about terrorists sneaking in? Why can't China or other Arab countries take them in? Why not keep them at least on the same continent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well even IF the countries you listed (China and other Arab countries) took them in, the refugees may not escape persecution there. If you were in fear for your and your families lives, had to drop everything you owned and ever know and start all over from scratch, where would you want to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 You make a good point. However, is the American Dream an entitlement? Are people who want to take in the refugees not at all concerned about terrorists sneaking in? Why can't China or other Arab countries take them in? Why not keep them at least on the same continent?There's always going to be that kind of risk when you think of what they're running from. It's not like this has to be a black and white issue; the ones who think we should give refugees amnesty aren't ignorant to the risk that comes with it. Closing our borders to people who have lost any trace of their former life because there's a possibility that we might let in a rogue terrorist kinda means the terrorists are succeeding in their mission; to instill fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 As long as you have a passport from a certain country getting across Europe borders should not have been a problem, correct? Maybe it took a little longer but you were still able to cross. How come you'd like it to be easier to get into the United States? Europe had the benefit of trust, trust that you wouldn't be doing anything illegal in one country from another. And despite Europe being engulfed in essentially a civil war for centuries, it's a nice idea to create a "common travel area" between countries. If we didn't have to worry about terrorism, illegal immigration, or drug smuggling, then borders between countries shouldn't be anymore of a problem than pulling up to a coin-operated tollbooth. Unfortunately, that's not a world we live in anymore, and it looks like Europe is facing that same reality too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Y'all do realize that the very point of terrorism is to make the target spend time and effort and jump through hoops in order to not be skeert, don't you? Look up John Oliver's take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkultra25 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Y'all do realize that the very point of terrorism is to make the target spend time and effort and jump through hoops in order to not be skeert, don't you? Look up John Oliver's take on it. Two words: "security theater". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Y'all do realize that the very point of terrorism is to make the target spend time and effort and jump through hoops in order to not be skeert, don't you? Look up John Oliver's take on it. The point of terrorism is to instill fear. The hoped for reaction is that you give in to whatever demands the terrorist is making. In reality, the reaction is usually some effort to prevent future attacks and an attempt to hunt down the terrorists and their backers. I don't think ISIS cares much about what kind of security theater we enact. They want us to leave them alone but they don't have a good way to achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 You make a good point. However, is the American Dream an entitlement? Are people who want to take in the refugees not at all concerned about terrorists sneaking in? Why can't China or other Arab countries take them in? Why not keep them at least on the same continent? I'd submit the American Dream was hijacked at some point by marketing and TV. At it's most base, I think the American Dream is as simple as the freedom to make your life what you want of it, and not being told what to do, how to live, where to live, what to say (or what not to say). Unfortunately, for as long as the American Dream was just a dream, or more rather an idea that the people who were able to achieve that dream didn't want other people to be able to achieve, that was the American Dream. Now it's been morphed into more of a set of goals: Buy a car, live in your own place (apartment, or home), have a cell phone, etc. I mean, I guess that's good though, right? Does it mean that what was once the American Dream can't be called a dream because anyone, regardless of their skin color, religious beliefs, or political beliefs has (as close as it has ever been at least) the same chances to make their life what they want it to be? The problem I see is that people seem to not realize that this isn't an entitlement, you make your life by the choices you make, your parents shape your life, you shape your child's life. This is my problem, people blame the system for their children's (missed or otherwise) opportunities, rather than taking responsibility for their future. Some kid isn't just going to grow up to be the next Rockefeller, or Carnegie, they had drive, competitiveness and initiative to pull themselves out of the poverty they were born into and they shaped America in the image they wanted. Poor people today lament that they can't do that anymore, I say bullshit, you don't push yourself you won't do that. You want it, you need to make it happen, no one is going to give it to you. Someone should write a book about the lives of Rockefeller, Carnegie and others who rose from absolute poverty to become the biggest men in America, but the book should only write about their lives until they turned 20. I'd do my part to make it required reading in middle school. *pant*pant* <wipes froth from mouth> Sorry, what was the point again? I got lost in a crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The borders were never really closed, despite what Hollande said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/15/what-did-it-really-mean-when-france-closed-its-borders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.