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METRORail Main Station (Red/Green/Purple)


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Rule of thumb is it costs twice as much to elevate and four times as much to tunnel. So instead of the original ~8 mile Red Line we could have had 4 miles elevated (UHD to Rice) or 2 miles of subway (UHD to McGowen). There's no question that either of those would have had fewer riders and therefore a lower benefit/cost ratio.

 

As for syncing signals for the east-west lines, there's only so much that can be done without un-syncing the north-south streets.

 

But yes, there are a lot of ways the Green and Purple Lines could have been designed better through Downtown.

 

It'll eventually be redone when the density and transit use demands it, albeit it will be extremely costly.

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I doubt there'd be "no question" that if it was tunneled or elevated for a short stretch there'd be fewer riders, in most cases grade separation increases ridership.  Especially if it were integrated with the downtown tunnel system. 

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I doubt there'd be "no question" that if it was tunneled or elevated for a short stretch there'd be fewer riders, in most cases grade separation increases ridership.  Especially if it were integrated with the downtown tunnel system. 

 

Houston's "tunnel system" is various basements, connected by slender tunnels built under the streets.  It's also only open during Business Hours, 5 days a week.  Real subways run through purpose-built tunnels. 

 

To go from the tunnel to the train, walk upstairs.  (Or take an escalator.)  Then go outside.  

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Drag racing the train to make a left turn on the next block adds just the right bit of competitive stimulation to start my day off right.  If you travel down Capitol every morning and turn left on any of the southbound streets, you get to do this at least twice a week.

 

I'm still waiting for an inspired train driver to try to make it close.

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Drag racing the train to make a left turn on the next block adds just the right bit of competitive stimulation to start my day off right. If you travel down Capitol every morning and turn left on any of the southbound streets, you get to do this at least twice a week.

I'm still waiting for an inspired train driver to try to make it close.

Why not just slow down a bit and yield to the train?
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Houston's "tunnel system" is various basements, connected by slender tunnels built under the streets.  It's also only open during Business Hours, 5 days a week.  Real subways run through purpose-built tunnels. 

 

To go from the tunnel to the train, walk upstairs.  (Or take an escalator.)  Then go outside.  

 

In Munich, they have the tunnels that are used by their subway, but at the main junctions of multiple lines they have an underground mall area above the subway system. Food courts, small shops, etc. all in this area. It's really nice.

 

it's very similar to our downtown tunnel system, only the walkways are wider.

 

It would be great, if Houston ever got a subway system, that the downtown tunnels be incorporated into the design.

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Houston's "tunnel system" is various basements, connected by slender tunnels built under the streets.  It's also only open during Business Hours, 5 days a week.  Real subways run through purpose-built tunnels. 

 

To go from the tunnel to the train, walk upstairs.  (Or take an escalator.)  Then go outside.  

 

I understand what Houston's tunnel system is.  Each station would have an exit directly to the street as well as to any nearby tunnels.  The actual train tunnels would be below the pedestrian tunnels.  The mezzanine levels of the subway stations above the platforms would be at the same level as the tunnels. 

 

Many Houstonians don't like to sweat, so if they can avoid going outside, they will.  

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I doubt there'd be "no question" that if it was tunneled or elevated for a short stretch there'd be fewer riders, in most cases grade separation increases ridership.  Especially if it were integrated with the downtown tunnel system. 

 

There is no question that a line of 1/2 or 1/4 the length would have lower ridership. Ridership is driven by jobs, residences, and other destinations within walking distance of the stations and by connections to bus routes. A line that didn't reach the TMC or Reliant would have dramatically fewer of these. Dryden/TMC is the highest ridership station in the system.

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There is no question that a line of 1/2 or 1/4 the length would have lower ridership. Ridership is driven by jobs, residences, and other destinations within walking distance of the stations and by connections to bus routes. A line that didn't reach the TMC or Reliant would have dramatically fewer of these. Dryden/TMC is the highest ridership station in the system.

 

I misunderstood.  I thought you were saying that if the red line was exactly the same except that it was tunneled in downtown and/or elevated in the TMC ridership would be lower, not if the line only went from one end of downtown to the other. 

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I'm curious how the rail is performing during large events like the games at MMP, BBVA, and the UH stadium? Anyone taken the train instead of driving to yesterday's game?

 

This was around 10:30 PM from the UH game on Saturday. The rail made it very easy and we avoided all the traffic. Double stacked cars too!

post-14294-0-22360500-1447688092_thumb.j

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  • 2 weeks later...

Took the green/purple line this morning to the Thanksgiving Day parade. Got on at EaDo Station and got off at Theatre District Station. Going there wasn't too bad as we left after the parade started. However, coming back was a nightmare. Everyone was trying to walk back to their cars and walking in the streets (and on the rails). Police were yelling at pedestrians to get off the rails. The trains couldn't proceed. It was so slow. I think I could've walked faster than the train was travelling between Theatre District Station and Convention District Station. Once we passed Convention District Station the train sped up to normal speed. I really think METRO blew it with this section within Downtown. This section should be elevated. Yeah I know its a cost issue but I'm just saying.

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Took the green/purple line this morning to the Thanksgiving Day parade. Got on at EaDo Station and got off at Theatre District Station. Going there wasn't too bad as we left after the parade started. However, coming back was a nightmare. Everyone was trying to walk back to their cars and walking in the streets (and on the rails). Police were yelling at pedestrians to get off the rails. The trains couldn't proceed. It was so slow. I think I could've walked faster than the train was travelling between Theatre District Station and Convention District Station. Once we passed Convention District Station the train sped up to normal speed. I really think METRO blew it with this section within Downtown. This section should be elevated. Yeah I know its a cost issue but I'm just saying.

Elevated? Downtown? Sounds like a nightmare compared to at-grade. Do you know how miserable the street life would be? Imagine the connectivity underground with the street and tunnels. Subway. Period.
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Visit Chicago then tell me why an elevated rail line would be a nightmare.

I have and it robs the streetscape of light, and it's too cluttered. Elevated would be fine along Westheimer (west of the Galleria), but not Downtown. It's depressing, and gritty. Wouldn't make sense to be counter productive to the beautification and on going strive to make retail happen on our streets. Ontop of that, it will look like an elevated highway running through to middle of everything. You think Metro would seriously have some great designs to make it more appealing? Nope. Just concrete pillars. Beautiful.

How about you visit under the Pierce elevated and let me know how it adds to the streets around it.

Edit: Elevated would work if the Houston Center had panned out to its original renderings. Same effect on the street.

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The best thing Boston every did, way before the Big Dig, was to bury the orange line of the T and build a park over it (Southwest Corridor Park). The old Orange Line used to be elevated down Washington St. and it didn't take long for the area to become a ghetto. Nobody wants to live adjacent to a loud, noisy, light-blocking train. Montrose is right on the money.

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I have and it robs the streetscape of light, and it's too cluttered. Elevated would be fine along Westheimer (west of the Galleria), but not Downtown. It's depressing, and gritty. Wouldn't make sense to be counter productive to the beautification and on going strive to make retail happen on our streets. Ontop of that, it will look like an elevated highway running through to middle of everything. You think Metro would seriously have some great designs to make it more appealing? Nope. Just concrete pillars. Beautiful.

How about you visit under the Pierce elevated and let me know how it adds to the streets around it.

Edit: Elevated would work if the Houston Center had panned out to its original renderings. Same effect on the street.

Ok, I agree with you on the blocking of sunlight. But I don't agree that it would kill street life or development at grade. Your Pearce Elevated arguement doesn't apply. It's not meant to serve pedestrians, it's for vehicular traffic. If it was, people would be at grade walking underneath it to access stations. I can't speak for the entire Chicago system, but many of the areas I was in had lively activity at grade with coffee shops, restaurants, etc. and this wasn't necessarily right underneath a station but in between them. One reason why Houston is better suited for elevated rail is because of the flooding issue. A subway would be deemed useless during floods. Even the existing at-grade system can only operate in a few inches of water before they shut it down and runs busses instead.

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Uh, no. Lots of low lying places have underground rail. You just have to build it correctly. Of course, that might be a struggle for METRO.

 

Who will give METRO the money?   We're not talking about digging a subway tunnel in virgin soil--a real tunnel, not linked basements.  We're talking about digging deeply--around or under the foundations of some very tall buildings.  

 

I ride light rail.  I'd prefer to block all other traffic from lanes used by the rail & synchronize all traffic lights to give the train priority.  Really--this could be accomplished cheaply.  However, lots of motorists would delicate flower.   (This last phrase substituted by the program rather than allow a word for "complain" that refers to a female canine.)  Yes, the drivers would not be happy!

 

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Who will give METRO the money? We're not talking about digging a subway tunnel in virgin soil--a real tunnel, not linked basements. We're talking about digging deeply--around or under the foundations of some very tall buildings.

I ride light rail. I'd prefer to block all other traffic from lanes used by the rail & synchronize all traffic lights to give the train priority. Really--this could be accomplished cheaply. However, lots of motorists would delicate flower. (This last phrase substituted by the program rather than allow a word for "complain" that refers to a female canine.) Yes, the drivers would not be happy!

Actually that's the best route... and while some drivers would complain, I really don't think a train coming every few minutes and disrupting traffic sporadically would affect anyone. You sync the lights to give the train priority, and you would have a very efficient line running even at peak hours.

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  • 1 month later...
  • The title was changed to METRORail Main Station (Red/Green/Purple)

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