Reviving Galveston's Economy

[IronTiger]

This is a topic that I wanted to separate from the casino thread as to not derail the topic. I know for a fact that Hurricane Ike damaged the local economy, something still depressed as of at least 2012. Apparently, some HAIFers think that casinos will be the "magic touch" to revive Galveston.

I respectfully disagree and would rather use this thread to discuss some things that would make Galveston a better city.

The biggest thing I wanted to say first, is that tourism, while a huge part of Galveston's economy, should not be the ONLY part of their economy, and I think that attracting some businesses (and new mid-rise offices, not too large) would help balance out things during the off-season.

But since Galveston DOES have a lot of tourism, a few things that I have thought of included:

• A larger, rebuilt seawall. The current seawall is decades old. A discussion in a previous topic had me envision a new seawall built (with a new artificial beach added in front of that) directly in front of the old one, with the old one razed for a new sidewalk/pedestrian mall twice as wide. The parking spots in front of the seawall remain as is, and the new seawall could be fully ADA compliant with wider staircases as well.

• Get those heritage trolleys working again! A lot of people talk about train service between Galveston and Houston, and while I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of that right now, the trolleys absolutely have to work again.

• Retail is sorely lacking in Galveston, and a few grocery stores (and requisite other big box stores) isn't going to cut it (heck, they don't even have HEB). There needs to be an outdoor mall of some sort near the beach--probably containing a few stores exclusive to the market (and a new H-E-B!)

What do you guys think? Galveston needs help but not casinos.

[brian0123]

Galveston was swinging back when they had gambling, and they should embrace that past and bring it back. That said, I also think...

1. Make parking free on the sea wall.

2. Revitalize interior by creating better corridors between Downtown and the beach. Pick a couple roads and rebuild them, put in wide sidewalks for biking, and help promote new development of housing and small business along it.

3. Add bike lanes everywhere. People bike up and down the sea wall... so make it easy for them to go elsewhere. Doing so may even attract smaller, creative type businesses where employees would like that option and can't get it in Houston. Basically, make it like a San Francisco of the south.

[Sparrow]

High speed commuter rail to downtown Houston. Seawall extension/realignment/improvements. Picturesque Bolivar bridge. Additional bridge to Pelican Island. Beach nourishment. More golf courses.

[arche_757]

Not to insult, just commenting on a few points you're trying to make:

This is a topic that I wanted to separate from the casino thread as to not derail the topic. I know for a fact that Hurricane Ike damaged the local economy, something still depressed as of at least 2012. Apparently, some HAIFers think that casinos will be the "magic touch" to revive Galveston.

I respectfully disagree and would rather use this thread to discuss some things that would make Galveston a better city.

The biggest thing I wanted to say first, is that tourism, while a huge part of Galveston's economy, should not be the ONLY part of their economy, and I think that attracting some businesses (and new mid-rise offices, not too large) would help balance out things during the off-season.

But since Galveston DOES have a lot of tourism, a few things that I have thought of included:

• A larger, rebuilt seawall. The current seawall is decades old. A discussion in a previous topic had me envision a new seawall built (with a new artificial beach added in front of that) directly in front of the old one, with the old one razed for a new sidewalk/pedestrian mall twice as wide. The parking spots in front of the seawall remain as is, and the new seawall could be fully ADA compliant with wider staircases as well.
• Get those heritage trolleys working again! A lot of people talk about train service between Galveston and Houston, and while I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of that right now, the trolleys absolutely have to work again.
• Retail is sorely lacking in Galveston, and a few grocery stores (and requisite other big box stores) isn't going to cut it (heck, they don't even have HEB). There needs to be an outdoor mall of some sort near the beach--probably containing a few stores exclusive to the market (and a new H-E-B!)

- Larger Seawall:  The Seawall does need to be rebuilt in a few places.  I'm not sure, but I do believe there is a plan to rework that?  The problem with adding the seawall is that erosion has nearly wiped out the beach in a few places - therefore adding to it would be a much more costly and monumental task.  Also, its hard to plant anything along the seawall because of the caustic air full of salt spray.  Makes plantings really tough.  Benches and other amenities would be easier to add - the problem is removing parking areas.

 

- Heritage Trolleys:  Not historical.  They have money for getting them running again, they have to either A) restore that network - which is running on cheaper buses, or remove all that track.

 

- Retail:  Galveston actually commissioned a study 4-ish years ago and determined that the best way to help revitalize the community (namely the Strand) was to build out a rather sprawling-walkable Outlet Mall using empty lots and some existing buildings re-purposed.  Guess what.  Other developers read that study and jumped at Texas City quickly and built the Tanger Outlets where they are now.

HEB used to be on the island, but had a smaller store and it wasn't very popular.  To my knowledge they've shown no interest in Galveston, even though they would in all likelihood do quite well.

[arche_757]

Galveston was swinging back when they had gambling, and they should embrace that past and bring it back. That said, I also think...

1. Make parking free on the sea wall.

2. Revitalize interior by creating better corridors between Downtown and the beach. Pick a couple roads and rebuild them, put in wide sidewalks for biking, and help promote new development of housing and small business along it.

3. Add bike lanes everywhere. People bike up and down the sea wall... so make it easy for them to go elsewhere. Doing so may even attract smaller, creative type businesses where employees would like that option and can't get it in Houston. Basically, make it like a San Francisco of the south.

 

- Free parking on the Seawall.  Guess why the city charges people to park there?  1) they were sold a bill-of-goods from the parking meter people, and 2) I'll wager 50% of the people who come to Galveston pay next to nothing in the actual city.  They buy their food and drink from home, park for free in town, and then eat their previously purchased food/drink on the beach.  They may pay or may not pay anything at all on the island.

 

- There are large areas where Galveston has lovely neighborhoods.  There is easy - safe - access from the Strand to the Seawall via 25th or 23rd or even 19th Streets.  Galveston IS the most walkable and bike friendly town in the state - my opinion - but after working here for years its evident the pace is slow enough and people largely are cognizant enough to recognize that there are pedestrians and bikers.  Consequently Galveston has plenty of sidewalks, in fact every street inside the 61st Street East/West corridor has sidewalks.

 

- Bike lanes wouldn't do much.  The streets aren't typically busy enough to warrant additional lanes for bikes.

 

[arche_757]

High speed commuter rail to downtown Houston. Seawall extension/realignment/improvements. Picturesque Bolivar bridge. Additional bridge to Pelican Island. Beach nourishment. More golf courses.

 

Bolivar Bridge would be tough - it needs to be bigger or at least as big as Fred Hartman (probably bigger for Panamax ships - and the deep water ports of Texas City and Galveston), and also span one of the worlds busiest waterways missing the wetlands that are prevalent on the East End and the Bolivar end of things as well.  Plus you have the Bolivar lighthouse - which is historical so it'd be expensive to route around in all probability.  Also, how many would use it?  I'd be for a coastal highway built about 10miles inland running from the Valley to Beaumont - for hurricane safety - but the costs would be really high and few and far between traveled I think.

 

Pelican Island will probably get another bridge at some point.  Galveston, City of Houston and others are exploring a several billion dollar container terminal on that island.

 

Golf/resort would be a big one to me.  I would think someone could put in a nice place on the East End between the end of the "city proper" and those condo towers built in '06ish...

[arche_757]

They need to beautify the entry. For such a fun, interesting, touristy place - Galveston certainly makes a bad first impression coming off the bridge.

 

Yep!  I understand Galveston's leaders are studying a way to beautify Broadway - which at times is fascinating, and others ugly!

 

The problem with anything in Galveston is = Money.

 

[BigFootsSocks]

My source worked on about half of those Texas City outlets and to this day I still understand why Simon built them. They do bring in a lot of money though so there's that, but damn it would've been nice to see those in Galveston.

[Sparrow]

Bolivar Bridge would be tough - it needs to be bigger or at least as big as Fred Hartman (probably bigger for Panamax ships - and the deep water ports of Texas City and Galveston), and also span one of the worlds busiest waterways missing the wetlands that are prevalent on the East End and the Bolivar end of things as well.  Plus you have the Bolivar lighthouse - which is historical so it'd be expensive to route around in all probability.  Also, how many would use it?  I'd be for a coastal highway built about 10miles inland running from the Valley to Beaumont - for hurricane safety - but the costs would be really high and few and far between traveled I think.

 

Pelican Island will probably get another bridge at some point.  Galveston, City of Houston and others are exploring a several billion dollar container terminal on that island.

 

Several billion dollar container terminal = who would use a Bolivar bridge.

 

TxDOT years ago did a study and found Pelican Island-Bolivar to be the best location for a bridge, just never came up with the funding. Seems to me if a multi-billion dollar terminal were built perhaps a multi-million dollar bridge to the east would be a no brainer to reduce travel time instead of traveling thru the Houston metro region. To me building a seawall on Bolivar at the same time would open up thousands upon thousands of acres for potential development.

 

Just building the terminal and bridge would greatly benefit Galveston's economy. Jobs, jobs, jobs.

[IronTiger]

Not to insult, just commenting on a few points you're trying to make:

- Larger Seawall:  The Seawall does need to be rebuilt in a few places.  I'm not sure, but I do believe there is a plan to rework that?  The problem with adding the seawall is that erosion has nearly wiped out the beach in a few places - therefore adding to it would be a much more costly and monumental task.  Also, its hard to plant anything along the seawall because of the caustic air full of salt spray.  Makes plantings really tough.  Benches and other amenities would be easier to add - the problem is removing parking areas.

I'm pretty sure that the beach gets eroded on a regular basis--I remember being at the seawall in off season 2005 and the beach had eroded down to just rocks. I'm also pretty sure I read on HAIF somewhere that they do in fact add sand. Parking would be another issue--but apparently the paid parking you just defended in a post below the one you sent me DOES make money now.

 

- Heritage Trolleys:  Not historical.  They have money for getting them running again, they have to either A) restore that network - which is running on cheaper buses, or remove all that track.

Who said it was historic? A lot of cities build or talk about building "heritage" trolleys. That's "heritage", in contrast to a modern streetcar (like the one METRO operates)

 

Retail: Galveston actually commissioned a study 4-ish years ago and determined that the best way to help revitalize the community (namely the Strand) was to build out a rather sprawling-walkable Outlet Mall using empty lots and some existing buildings re-purposed. Guess what. Other developers read that study and jumped at Texas City quickly and built the Tanger Outlets where they are now.

HEB used to be on the island, but had a smaller store and it wasn't very popular. To my knowledge they've shown no interest in Galveston, even though they would in all likelihood do quite well.

First off, an outlet mall isn't necessarily needed. Maybe one of those "festival marketplaces" built in other cities, though success has been mixed on many of those.

H-E-B I do remember was there, a small Pantry store in an old Safeway (it's now a charter school). It closed up shop after Hurricane Ike. The grocery options left on the island are only now Kroger, Randalls, and independents, and none of those are very exciting. Maybe a Trader Joe's would make up for the loss...

[trymahjong]

Sooooooooo I don't know much about Galveston economy but if you improved the cruise industry somehow would that help Galveston economy?

[arche_757]

Who said it was historic? A lot of cities build or talk about building "heritage" trolleys. That's "heritage", in contrast to a modern streetcar (like the one METRO operates)

 

First off, an outlet mall isn't necessarily needed. Maybe one of those "festival marketplaces" built in other cities, though success has been mixed on many of those.

H-E-B I do remember was there, a small Pantry store in an old Safeway (it's now a charter school). It closed up shop after Hurricane Ike. The grocery options left on the island are only now Kroger, Randalls, and independents, and none of those are very exciting. Maybe a Trader Joe's would make up for the loss...

Well, Tanger does very well up in Texas City, an outlet mall of same scale and size - except in the Strand area (in lieu of Tanger up north) would have done well and given a boost in the arm for retail on the island.

 

The trolleys - in case you missed my point - are at some point either a) to be restored, or b ) removed and money given back to the government.  There has been zero work done on it.  I'm of the opinion the city wants them only if they can find a way to make money off them...

 

Trader Joes would do well, but the other 50% of Galveston's demographics would drag down any projections that they would use to determine IF they should build in Galveston.

[arche_757]

Sooooooooo I don't know much about Galveston economy but if you improved the cruise industry somehow would that help Galveston economy?

 

Galveston has a booming cruise economy.  However, most people who come to town for the cruises spend about 4 hours on shore, then board the ships and sail off.

 

That's Galveston's problem - booming tourist economy, yet *a lot* of the people who visit Galveston spend next to nothing while IN town.  That's your common weekend visitor who comes down for Saturday (for instance).

[IronTiger]

Galveston has a booming cruise economy. However, most people who come to town for the cruises spend about 4 hours on shore, then board the ships and sail off.

That's Galveston's problem - booming tourist economy, yet *a lot* of the people who visit Galveston spend next to nothing while IN town. That's your common weekend visitor who comes down for Saturday (for instance).

Aside from aforementioned 2005 trip, I was in Galveston in August 2008 and March 2012, and I could tell that there was a massive difference. Some of the touristy shops on the Strand, such as a fudge shop/antique mall, never reopened.

If Galveston wants to snag any cruise money, it needs focus on the Strand. Something worth their four hours.

[arche_757]

Aside from aforementioned 2005 trip, I was in Galveston in August 2008 and March 2012, and I could tell that there was a massive difference. Some of the touristy shops on the Strand, such as a fudge shop/antique mall, never reopened.

If Galveston wants to snag any cruise money, it needs focus on the Strand. Something worth their four hours.

 

Like what?  There are/have been decent stores on the Strand and Postoffice Street for years... there are also dumpy ones.

 

I think one big solution:

- Galveston needed the convention center downtown (but Tilman built it by the seawall so that someday it can become a casino...see the long term thinking here?), and along with that there is a need for a few decent smaller hotels eg: Hampton and a Marriot Courtyard or similar in/near the Strand.  Tremont and Harbour House are pretty pricey - national brands that aren't owned by Mitchell Historic Properties would be a good addition.  Add to that my longstanding wish for a convention center basically over the whole train yard behind the Santa Fe Depot and then the transformation of the Santa Fe building into a Hyatt or Marriot (or similar) would be a big boost.  I'm talking a 2-300,000 sq. ft. exhibition space.  People like conventions in touristy areas.  It would play off itself.

- Also, Galveston needs a small business start-up center like Houston Technology Center.  While it may not seem like much in Houston, it'd be huge for Galveston.  Think of the long term economic asset such a place would be.

 

That and TAMUGalveston is really poorly located over on Pelican Island.  May as well be in Texas City.  Had it been built somewhere just south of there on Galveston Island that would have helped an entire area of the city.

 

 

Consequently my firm is working on the redevelopment of a rather large, run-down building that could serve as a catalyst for an area.  No details beyond that, but perhaps in the next 6 months?

 

[Slick Vik]

They have to make a decision on the trolleys or pay the Feds back

[arche_757]

They have to make a decision on the trolleys or pay the Feds back

Yep.  And if they decided to delete the trolleys I think they also need to remove all the track!

 

I imagine that caveat alone would make it hard for them to not restore them.  The costs to restore would be cheaper than pulling up all that track - all over downtown, UTMB, Seawall, 25th Street... its all over the nicer parts of town.

 

[IronTiger]

Yep. And if they decided to delete the trolleys I think they also need to remove all the track!

I imagine that caveat alone would make it hard for them to not restore them. The costs to restore would be cheaper than pulling up all that track - all over downtown, UTMB, Seawall, 25th Street... its all over the nicer parts of town.

Removing them would create ugly patches, for sure.

[arche_757]

You could repave the roads.  Wouldn't be too tough.  The problem is its down all the major roads in town except Harborside and Broadway.

[brian0123]

2) I'll wager 50% of the people who come to Galveston pay next to nothing in the actual city. They buy their food and drink from home, park for free in town, and then eat their previously purchased food/drink on the beach. They may pay or may not pay anything at all on the island.

Galveston doesn't own the beaches and people shouldn't have to spend money to visit them. The question is how to improve the economy there. The answer is to get people there first so businesses can try to attract their business. The paid parking is a barrier to that and at least leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

[arche_757]

Galveston doesn't own the beaches and people shouldn't have to spend money to visit them. The question is how to improve the economy there. The answer is to get people there first so businesses can try to attract their business. The paid parking is a barrier to that and at least leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

 

And yet Galveston is the caretaker of the beach.  You - non-Galvestonian - do not pay much more than $0.30 cents out of each pay check towards coastal improvements for the entire coastline of the state; but largely you don't pay much to repair, clean, keep the beach open.  When you leave Galveston you don't worry about the trash, the mess etc that is left behind and as you shouldn't... but don't expect to come to any place and simply get in free, make a mess and leave nothing behind in the way of recompense.

 

The paid meters are nothing.  If you can't afford $8 or even $16 to park for the day - move along.  Parking meters are everywhere in the world - Galveston should have them, why not have them by the beach too?  The issue with those meters is the supposed additional security from them.

 

Like I said - add some business incubators and see what happens.  Also, Galveston can add a few tax incentives to the mix and see if that helps?  The schools need work too.  Make the schools even slightly better and the allure of the historic town will help attract a few more people.

[Slick Vik]

And yet Galveston is the caretaker of the beach. You - non-Galvestonian - do not pay much more than $0.30 cents out of each pay check towards coastal improvements for the entire coastline of the state; but largely you don't pay much to repair, clean, keep the beach open. When you leave Galveston you don't worry about the trash, the mess etc that is left behind and as you shouldn't... but don't expect to come to any place and simply get in free, make a mess and leave nothing behind in the way of recompense.

The paid meters are nothing. If you can't afford $8 or even $16 to park for the day - move along. Parking meters are everywhere in the world - Galveston should have them, why not have them by the beach too? The issue with those meters is the supposed additional security from them.

Like I said - add some business incubators and see what happens. Also, Galveston can add a few tax incentives to the mix and see if that helps? The schools need work too. Make the schools even slightly better and the allure of the historic town will help attract a few more people.

Do you work at American national?

[arche_757]

Nope.  Architectural firm on the isle.

[plumber2]

Yeah, screw HEB. They ran out of Galveston after Hurricane Ike, while other major retailers, cleaned up their stores and reopened as quickly as possible. HEB took their insurance settlement and then secretly sold the empty store and adjacent property to the Masbacher family who then gifted it to the charter school. Most Galveston residents could care less about HEB returning to the island.

HEB is however building a new store in Texas City, but only after a generous tax incentive from the Texas City economic development fund.

 

I do agree, that Galveston could use a new resort of some type. The East End Flats would be a perfect spot for one.

[brian0123]

The paid meters are nothing. If you can't afford $8 or even $16 to park for the day - move along. Parking meters are everywhere in the world - Galveston should have them, why not have them by the beach too?

The problem is the beach doesn't have meters. You have to have a cell phone to park... which makes things difficult and confusing for people who don't or are not used to paying via phone. Your attitude also shows what's wrong. You are looking at visitors as mooches instead of an opportunity. Galveston wants to improve their economy (tourism is a big component of it), yet they make it confusing for some people.

[cloud713]

get the Trolleys working from the Strand historic district loop up to the Pleasure Pier. im not as concerned with the eastern mile of track down Strand and around the medical center. renovating those tracks can come as a Phase II, along with eventually making an entire loop, going down University Blvd to Steward Beach, and then down the Seawall back to 25th St. but again, all of that can come after the main line from the Strand to Pleasure Pier gets up and running again.

- as for how to get the trolleys up and running (money), i noticed Landrys seems to own the Pier 21 complex just north of the Strand, where the trolley line juts north off Strand before making a U turn. so they own properties at both ends (Pleasure Pier on the southeast end) of my proposed first phase of bringing the trolleys back. get Fertitta to fork up a few million dollars for the trolley repairs. heck, let him have a large percentage of the advertising space on the sides of the trolleys for his developments for paying part of the costs.



also, i mentioned this in another Houston tourist thread.. has anyone ever been to a WonderWorks before? they are geared towards kids but i had a lot of fun when i went to one when i was probably about 23. informative hands on learning and entertainment. one of these along the seawall (i like the vacant plot between Hotel Galvez and the hotel across from Murdocs, right on the streetcar line) would be fantastic.

http://www.wonderworksonline.com/


 

i completely agree about a large resort with golf course being built on the island. though instead of between Stewart Beach and the condo towers, or on East End Flats, how about on the far east end at the point of the island? there are a couple hundred acres over there between the beach, the "lagoon", apffel park rd, and boddeker rd, with a huge beach in front of it. the public access down Boddeker Rd/the far end of the beach would probably have to be gotten rid of and that whole peninsula made private property, but the few times ive been all the way out there i haven seen many people so i dont think many would be inconvenienced besides a few fishermen.
-what kind of resort would it be? a really far fetched but fantastic one would be Atlantis. i know Galveston isnt on the same level as the Bahamas or Dubai, but there are over 25 million people in Texas to draw to the resort, and over 30 million people visit Houston every year. only 5-6 million people visit the Bahamas every year. obviously the beaches are much prettier in the Bahamas, but the sheer number of people who are within driving distance of Galveston and/or visit Houston every year make it an interesting location for an Atlantis resort.

the area between Stewart Beach and the condo towers would make for a neat place to put a beachy outdoor/open air mall or a Venice Beach type area. and the East End Flats would be a good place for a casino district.



also, whats up with the high-rise over the Railroad Museum at the west end of the Strand? the building would make for a great hotel location on the upper floors (im not sure if the museum takes up the whole bottom floor of the building fronting 25th or not).

[BigFootsSocks]

The problem is the beach doesn't have meters. You have to have a cell phone to park... which makes things difficult and confusing for people who don't or are not used to paying via phone. Your attitude also shows what's wrong. You are looking at visitors as mooches instead of an opportunity. Galveston wants to improve their economy (tourism is a big component of it), yet they make it confusing for some people.

I don't know the exact numbers but a majority of people in this nation have smartphones so it's not like we don't know how to use our phones. The only trouble people may have is if they're too old to understand technology.

[strickn]

I think -- for anyone who is interested in healing this place -- it would be worth your while to check out a copy of Jane Jacobs' relatively brief book Cities and the Wealth of Nations.  I am reading it with Galveston in mind.

[arche_757]

I think there is a perception that Galveston has failed.  That's not true.  Galveston is - probably the best example in Texas - of a "rust belt" city that's seen its heyday come and go.

 

It has not not failed; it could certainly use a white collar or even skilled blue collar boost.

 

I think with the expanded port facilities under talks both for Galveston and Pelican Island it will get a boost...hopefully some white collar jobs will creep in too.

[IronTiger]

I think there is a perception that Galveston has failed.  That's not true.  Galveston is - probably the best example in Texas - of a "rust belt" city that's seen its heyday come and go.

 

It has not not failed; it could certainly use a white collar or even skilled blue collar boost.

 

I think with the expanded port facilities under talks both for Galveston and Pelican Island it will get a boost...hopefully some white collar jobs will creep in too.

Galveston isn't DEAD by any means. Unfortunately, it's not exactly booming, as its tourism industry has been battered by both a hurricane and a recession. Heck, right now, I'm not even talking pre-WWII levels or pre-1900 levels, I'm talking pre-2008 levels.