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Uptown - Reversing Suburbanization

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for awhile i was reading that many suspected this bus plan was really going to turn into light rail once everything else was in place (despite the protests and votes against light rail)...we will see if that happens once everything else is in place and they have those designated "bus lanes"...

 

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I always thought the best thing about Uptown was the Four Leaf Plaza.

Up with BRT ("clandestine rail") and down with the strip malls. 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/21/2017 at 6:39 PM, UtterlyUrban said:

Thank you.

 

i have never understood how a bus lane on Post oak will be impactful.  Others may legitimately think that it will be.  I hope that they are right. But, to me, its a "huh"?  I see buses on Post oak more like the "Greenlink" downtown.  Every time I see those Greenlink buses, they are essentially empty.  It's good to have but really it isn't  used  much (at least when I see them).  Hopefully Post oak will be hugely better.

You're comparing two different services. The GreenLink is used a lot during the weekend and runs on it's own circular with traffic. BRT is much like rail in that you provide dedicated lanes and give buses the ROW. If fewer people have to come down Post Oak and can instead take the NW or Hillcroft Transit Center to get to Uptown, then people will use that option. You can't be the 4th largest city with minimal transit options. Whether you feel it will ease congestion or not, it def gives people a better option to get around without being stuck in traffic. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

You're comparing two essentiall different services. The GreenLink is used a lot during the weekend and runs on it's own circular with traffic. BRT is much like rail in that you provide dedicated lanes and give buses the ROW. If fewer people have to come down Post Oak and can instead take the NW or Hillcroft Transit Center to get to Uptown, then people will use that option. You can't be the 4th largest city with minimal transit options. Whether you feel it will ease congestion or not, it def gives people a better option to get around without being stuck in traffic. 

It will be a dedicated bus land from where to where and how is that different than a loop bus like Greenlink that stops at major destinations along the route?  (I assume that this BRT will be stopping at traffic lights?)

 

 

Edited by UtterlyUrban

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14 minutes ago, UtterlyUrban said:

It will be a dedicated bus land from where to where and how is that different than a loop bus like Greenlink that stops at major destinations along the route?  (I assume that this BRT will be stopping at traffic lights?)

 

 

The biggest difference is a dedicated bus lane with zero cars. GreenLink has to fight traffic and other obstacles like any bus. BRT is way more reliable and has the ability to easily become light rail in the future.

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1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said:

The biggest difference is a dedicated bus lane with zero cars. GreenLink has to fight traffic and other obstacles like any bus. BRT is way more reliable and has the ability to easily become light rail in the future.

I hear ya.  I just don't "get it".

 

Hopefully those that are more visionary than me are correct in thinking that this proposal will have big benefits are correct.

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Posted (edited)

36 minutes ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I hear ya.  I just don't "get it".

 

Hopefully those that are more visionary than me are correct in thinking that this proposal will have big benefits are correct.

I think you're focus is "How is this going to ease congestion on Post Oak?" You have to almost think in reverse as to how this will help. The way we've been taught to think in this city is wider freeways/roads means we can now fit more cars and this will somehow help move more people, "ease congestion." The problem with Houston is there are too many people in their cars because the options of how to get around efficiently are few. If you begin to give people options, over time those systems change the culture and mindset of the city. It's funny how we always look at cities like NY or Boston and are a bit envious of their subway system but even those cities had humble beginnings. Now you can't think of NYC without thinking about the subway. So while BRT won't show immediate results, the impact affects many generations ahead of us. I already see it with how current college students use the light rail. They grew up with it as kids, and as young people their focus becomes, "How can I get to class cheaper/easier?" It's one giant ripple effect. The bus system is great in this city, but what would make it even better is a link to that system so busses could shuttle people faster on their routes, much how our light rail works now. Well Uptown BRT can be that future connection. An east/west light rail/BRT line would really connect the city once this project is finished. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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rode my bike by there again last night and yep, all of canyon and relax the back are completely gutted out including all outer walls...the only thing left is the metal supports...so i wonder when the rug store shuts down...and then if they are indeed, going to knock this free standing building down...and if so, for what?

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1 hour ago, gene said:

rode my bike by there again last night and yep, all of canyon and relax the back are completely gutted out including all outer walls...the only thing left is the metal supports...so i wonder when the rug store shuts down...and then if they are indeed, going to knock this free standing building down...and if so, for what?

 

I believe Moxie's Grill & Bar is moving in to that space.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I believe Moxie's Grill & Bar is moving in to that space.

 

I saw an article last year that mentioned that and didn't know that was still the plan...so if that's the case, then awesome and thank you! 

 

edited to add this article i just found: https://www.virtualbx.com/construction-preview/24045-moxie-s-grill-project-at-galleria-clears-planning-commission-hurdle.html

 

Edited by gene

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:37 AM, gene said:

for awhile i was reading that many suspected this bus plan was really going to turn into light rail once everything else was in place (despite the protests and votes against light rail)...we will see if that happens once everything else is in place and they have those designated "bus lanes"...

 

Does anyone know if Houston's BRT will be just like light rail except on rubber? (ticketing, low-floor, compartment layout, etc...)

 

If the user experience is the same for the rider, who cares if it's on wheels or rails. With proper bushes and other vegetation alongside you couldn't tell anyway. Drop the L or the B and just call it RT.

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On 4/28/2017 at 3:46 PM, Sparrow said:

Does anyone know if Houston's BRT will be just like light rail except on rubber? (ticketing, low-floor, compartment layout, etc...)

 

If the user experience is the same for the rider, who cares if it's on wheels or rails. With proper bushes and other vegetation alongside you couldn't tell anyway. Drop the L or the B and just call it RT.

I don't know.  Hopefully it will be great.  Until then, it could be said that you can drop all of it and just call it a "bus traveling in its own lane"

 and subject to all traffic signals"  -- kinda like, well, a bus traveling in its own lane down a road.  And, the lane, specifically, will require pedestrians to walk to the center of the road, crossing multiple lanes of traffic, to catch the bus (which is traveling in its own lane). Did I mention that it's a bus traveling in its own lane?

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My understanding is that this line will be true BRT - ticketing, low-floor, signal prioritization and all. That's what the drawings they've released have shown, though I don't know what the buses themselves will look like. 

 

Those are really the big advantages of rail over a bus. The only real limitation that I can think of here would be absolute capacity per bus and ride quality. Articulated buses can carry more people than regular buses, and capacity can always be addressed by adding buses, which has the additional advantage of increasing frequency. Of course it also increases costs. 

 

Ride quality is really the one thing buses cant compete with rail on. Everything else can be built in; the problem with buses is that it's easier to strip those features out to save costs. Assuming they *don't* do that, this really does have the potential to be a great line and, hopefully, a useful precedent for similar lines in other parts of town.

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Posted (edited)

Also, yes, pedestrians will have to cross traffic lanes to get to it. How is that a problem? If you had dedicated bus lanes on each side, then, yes, you wouldn't have to cross the street, but only if you happened to be on the side of street with buses going the right direction. Otherwise, you'd have to cross 6-8 lanes of traffic. This way, you will always have to cross lanes, but never more than 3-4 of them. 

 

Having the lanes in the center also helps to give them a sense of physical permanence as an actual transit line rather than just a bunch of buses. Even when buses aren't there, you will see this physically separated, visually distinct thing in the middle of the road with regularly spaced stations. I'm not personally a big fan of how the green/purple lines were built downtown on separate streets with no obvious visual cues aside from the stations themselves; I vastly prefer the red line going right down the center of Main Street. Of course the separate lanes help too.

Edited by Texasota
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On an unrelated note, I really don't like that I'm apparently now a "freeway interchange."

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23 hours ago, Texasota said:

On an unrelated note, I really don't like that I'm apparently now a "freeway interchange."

Post 100 more times and you can be a hospital :D

 

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