Independence Heights Information & Developments

[stuu67]

Purpledevil drive up Yale and look at all the homes just north of Booker T Washington. You will notice that they are all vacant and boarded up as far as 43rd Street and that's because HISD has purchased them to be torn down to build the new school. Where Booker T stands now is where the new stadium will be. Again don't take my word for it do your own research. Google Neighborhood Livable Centers and see the plans for Crosstimbers. Sweetheart you have to do your research.

[stuu67]

S3mh you've gotta be kidding me. You have the Proper Heights to the south, GOOF to the west, the new Fulton Rail and Lindale to the east and Crosstimbers borders the north. You can't ask for better borders.

[Houston19514]

If you wait a little longer, those big beautiful homes will have spray paint covering them, and the special treat of crack rock scents waffling out the windows.

Need an example of current renovations being done exactly as I've described? Drive by the Concord Church on Main. There's a historical building that is an original part of Studewood, rich in heritage. Work began on the restoration, and wouldn't you know it, they replaced all of the broken glasses, and cleaned up the exterior extensively...and then again...and then again...and then, you get the point.

If land is so valuable in IH, please explain to me the parcel of land surrounded by Crosstimbers, Main, Yale, and East 45th. That's been a huge vacant lot for the better part of 20 years now.

I'd also say that Booker T. will be demoed when snowflakes start dropping you know where, but Phyllis Wheatley's demise further proves nothing is sacred in this town.

Good luck to the builders, and most importantly to the future homeowners looking to scoop up one of these big, beautiful homes that are to be built. Independence Heights is not for the faint of heart.

 

Better get yourself some snow boots. 

 

[s3mh]

S3mh you've gotta be kidding me. You have the Proper Heights to the south, GOOF to the west, the new Fulton Rail and Lindale to the east and Crosstimbers borders the north. You can't ask for better borders.

 

Now I get it.  You must be a realtor.  Yeah, the new Fulton line is great if you want to walk a mile, cross under two hobo filled overpasses and wait for the train in an even worse neighborhood than IH.  I guess the benefit of Crosstimbers to the north is that you will know exactly where you need to turn around in case you get lost heading north out of the neighborhood.  Yeah, the Heights are to the south, but good luck walking or riding a bike over that way.  GOOF to the west is nothing more than a reminder that you picked the neighborhood with no schools and lots of crack houses.

 

Sure, the pioneers are coming, but turning around a neighborhood that has fallen as hard as IH takes a very long time.  You have absentee owners, long time residents who are dug in, speculators who are only waiting for someone else to build, properties with probate/title fights, and landlords who prefer the cash flow, all of whom keep the area from gaining momentum.  As hot as areas like Shady Acres and Cottage Grove are, there are still lots of people who will not sell or cannot sell.  IH is a long, long way away from gentrification.  The bets in that neighborhood are very long term.  If the Houston economy cools, you could lose your shirt in IH.  If the economy continue to roll, it will still take at least 10 years to see IH hit the critical mass to take it beyond a pioneer neighborhood.

 

[Fortune]

If land is so valuable in IH, please explain to me the parcel of land surrounded by Crosstimbers, Main, Yale, and East 45th. That's been a huge vacant lot for the better part of 20 years now.

Please explain to me what a vacant piece of land has to do with value or desirability of a area ?

There are plenty of vacant empty large parcels of land in very desirable and valuable areas throughout Houston.

No one said that it is valuable land now, the original poster only said that the property will increase in value as new development takes place.

A lot of the things being said about IH in this thread, have been said about areas that are completely different now such as Cottage Grove, West U, Washington Ave, Midtown, The Heights, hell even Montrose.

Look at Third Ward, people always said that the Third Ward would never be redeveloped and gentrified and so on and such. But look at the new town home development taking place in the NW corner of Third Ward that will only continue and spread.

Also it kills me when people act as if The Heights has always been the place that is today. The Heights has come a long way and still has a long way to go in places.

[9075]

According to HCAD, it looks like most of the properties that Sullivan owns in the area were purchased from the Houze developer back in February.

[Purpledevil]

Yep, 19514, I read it and am astounding that neither Wheatley nor Booker T. are to be with us much longer. Shame really, so much history. Such is progress in the big city. Hopefully some aspects of Washington can be incorporated into the new development as is reportedly now happening with Wheatley. Does Academy sell snow boots down here? Never thought I'd have to ask, lol.

Stuu67: Drive down any street in Independence Heights and you'll see boarded up windows and caving in roofs. Who can tell the difference? Some of those old homes and businesses have been abandoned for years. A few more have now been boarded up, and I just didn't notice.

Fortune: When you take into account that this property I referenced is surrounded by a closed elementary school, a closed furnIture store, a closed car lot converted into a barber shop/hair salon, a car wash complete with a crowd of 40oz sippin' patrons standing by, it's not hard to imagine why it has sat dormant all this time, and has not seen some type of development. That parcel stretches from almost Yale to N. Main. You'd think something more than just the newer convenience store they built over 10 years ago facing Yale, would've been established by now. It remains a vacant piece of land because of the undesirable surroundings. You are absolutely right, there are several large parcels of land available in Houston that are in superb areas, and this ain't one of them.

Wipe nearly the whole neighborhood clean like what happened to Cottage Grove, and start all over? Well, now you may have something. If they start building little pocket communities with in the confines of the current Independence Heights, it won't be long before those beautiful new homes start resembling the old boarded up ones that used to stand in the same place.

I couldn't agree more with your comment on The Heights. It has certainly changed a lot since the old days of overnight rapid gunfire, but the original comment of Independence Heights, Studewood, or whatever you want to call it, being less rundown and blighted than the "Proper Heights", voiced by Stuu67, is an absolute farce. The Heights was a rougher part of town back then, but it didn't have buildings just sitting there caving in on themselves like Studewood did, and still does.

...with the exception of Danburg's Department Store on Yale & 20th. That decrepit beast stood there rotting away for way too many years, lol.

[JLWM8609]

If land is so valuable in IH, please explain to me the parcel of land surrounded by Crosstimbers, Main, Yale, and East 45th. That's been a huge vacant lot for the better part of 20 years now.

 

 

I remember there being some sort of City of Houston facility at that lot, and it was maybe less than 10 years ago that it was still there.

[Purpledevil]

It was indeed, seems like it had to do with the water utilities. The old buildings were torn down this century, but it sat vacated for a few years prior to its demise, iirc.

Drove down there this morning in route to breakfast, and sure enough, a huge swath of old houses have fresh plywood up and numbers painted on them around Booker T. This is nice and all, I'm saddened a little that it will be another longtime institution lost, and will be a positive change for the neighborhood, but the unnecessary hyperbole initiated in this thread is what sent me off into a tangent. I honestly hope this redevelopment stretches clear up Yale to Parker. When 45 eventually widens up near Parker, where my rental is sitting will likely end up as commercial frontage for the freeway. The sooner the better, lol.

Stuu67, if you're looking for a property to snatch up along Yale, I've got a 3/1 I'd gladly dump on...er..negotiate a deal with you. That is, if you are truly "buying now". Bring cash.

[Fortune]

@Purpledevil Parker is pretty far up there, a lot of redevelopment is going to have to take place to get up there. Is Parker considered IH ? I thought the northern boundary was Tidwell.

[Purpledevil]

It is, Parker is in the Parkway area, which includes Suburban Terrace, Wildrose Gardens, and another name that's escaping me right now. IH, as I've always known it, ends at Tidwell.

[Fortune]

I think that the Mirador Builders gated community off of Yale turned out nicely and at a good price point for the area.

[stuu67]

Crosstimbers appears to be the northern border for redevelopment right now.   

[Purpledevil]

There is an new community of homes that have been built on Yale between Tidwell and Parker, on the west side of the road. This community is gated, built on top of an old horse pasture, and was completed 3 or 4 years ago. I can't remember the name of it, but Rosamond dead ends into the side of it across Yale. That's been all the new major development that area has seen since the original neighborhoods around it were built in the mid 50s.

I agree with you Fortune. The new development down by Barkwood is quite nice, but it's part of the "pocket development" that I fear will occur below Crosstimbers. Inside of the front gate is swell, outside of it is produces a nightly collection of wandering drunks, drugs deals, and those collecting money from whomever they can to get a piece of the drug dealing action going on nearby. It's no wonder San Julio and the Kingdom Hall have large gates surrounding them.

If the new construction does not meander across Crosstimbers, then there's going to be issues. The area north of Crosstimbers and south of Tidwell is a high crime area, likely moreso than the part of IH south of Crosstimbers. North of that is Parkway, which we've discussed, and it's really no picnic either.

Between Tidwell and Parker, Stuebner Airline and 45, is the pocket of 50s built one story 3 bedroom homes that still maintain a fair number of older longtime homeowners that have maintained the area as a mostly quiet spot where vigilance is king and crime is relatively low. My wife and I lived there for almost 20 years and thankfully only had one issue where a stolen car was dumped in our driveway.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Purpledevil

[Purpledevil]

Crosstimbers appears to be the northern border for redevelopment right now.

I'll take that as a "no" on the offer, lol. The price will only go up as the new development inches closer.

[Fortune]

There is an new community of homes that have been built on Yale between Tidwell and Parker, on the west side of the road. This community is gated, built on top of an old horse pasture, and was completed 3 or 4 years ago. I can't remember the name of it, but Rosamond dead ends into the side of it across Yale. That's been all the new major development that area has seen since the original neighborhoods around it were built in the mid 50s.

That is actually the development I was talking about built by Mirador. I believe it's called Yale Park Village. The 5 acres directly south of this development and the 5 acres directly SW of this are currently both on the market listed at $500,000 each.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Fortune

[Purpledevil]

Gotcha. Didn't know who developed it, but yeah, Yale Park Village does sound right. The property that you speak of for $500k on Yale, south adjacent to YPV has been on the market for some time now. I've had my eye on it for a long time, as whoever buys it has a big surprise for them sitting in the garage. There is an old 50s model Chrysler sitting underneath all the junk packed on top of it. We moved into Suburban Terrace, two blocks north of this property, back in 1989.

The house there next to the Mirador development had an old couple living in it back then, and the old man would leave the garage door open while he mowed the property. The car was stored in there even then, never moved. Just saw someone mowing down the property a couple of months ago and for the first time in probably many years, lo and behold the door was open and there sat the tail end of the old car peering out from under the pile. I'd love to make an offer on that car, if anyone ever buys the house.

[Fortune]

@Purpledevil the property with the house is actually under contract. Looks like the sale will close October 17th.

[Purpledevil]

Thanks for the heads up, Fortune. I'll be on the lookout for activity around the house. I really am serious about that car. I'll take my truck and a towbar down there and bring it home tonight....much to the chagrin of the Mrs., I'm sure, lol.

I hadn't seen any "Sale Pending" attachments to the sign, and I was just passing there Saturday morning. Do you have any association with the process, Fortune? Maybe be willing to put a bug in the right ear that I will gladly clear the car out of the garage and pay a fair price for it, as opposed to sending it across the scales for next to nothing?

I'd be happy to send a "finder's fee" your way for the trouble.

The house is a reminder of just how far out in the sticks that part of Yale was when it was built. The property goes back, I believe, to where Millerview would come through, if it had ever been connected. That's the end of YPV as well, so maybe a second community going in next door?

[Fortune]

@Purpledevil here is the contact info for the listing agent and the selling agent. Im not sure who will take possession of the car the current owner or the new owner. I would just reach out to the agents and get them to ask their clients.

 

Ariene Gilmorea- agilmore@heritagetexas.com (713) 898-8458

 

Micheal Silva- michael@thereynagroup.com (713) 725-8748

[s3mh]

I had not been through IH in recent memory and could not resist taking a drive through there this weekend.  To quote Gertrude Stein (and in a totally different context), there is no "there" there.  Almost no commercial development, except for churches.  Probably an even split between vacant lots and lots that are occupied.  Definitely a popular spot to dump your old tires.  It was hot, so very few people were out and about.  Last time I went through, I definitely remembered seeing a pretty rough group of guys who were definitely dealing on N. Main.  Lots are generally small.  3-4000 sq ft.  A lot of streets are just a touch above an alley.  I am not sure you could even get around a car parked on the street. 

I am very interested to see what kind of product Sullivan comes up with for this part of town.  I do not see anyone paying more that $300k to be a pioneer in this area.  I think @$200-250k is about the market that would be willing to take on this area, exchanging the benefits of being closer to town with all the many burdens.  Anyone with $350k+ can afford to do much better and would not get a "more bang for your buck" by being a pioneer in this area.  There are still too many big lots in Shady Acres, Sunset Heights and other parts of the "Greater Heights" area (especially the de-industrialization out near the W. Loop were Hines is clearing 47 acres for their Somerset Green development) to expect IH to get any kind of real momentum in the next 5-10 years. 

[JJxvi]

My recommendation is not driving through Independence Heights, ever.

[stuu67]

Stevenallendesigns.com also building and remodeling in IH. They are building behind the Barber shop Purple devil.

[SilverJK]

I drove through there the other night... it wasn't that bad.  I would say it isn't any worse than brookesmith was 7-8 years ago.  I'm really looking at buying now.

 

I do believe that south of the railroad tracks will be the area to gentrify first though.

[s3mh]

I drove through there the other night... it wasn't that bad.  I would say it isn't any worse than brookesmith was 7-8 years ago.  I'm really looking at buying now.

 

I do believe that south of the railroad tracks will be the area to gentrify first though.

 

I would say it is worse that Brookesmith 7-8 years ago.  Too many vacant lots and vacant houses.  Too many easy spots for people selling/doing drugs to keep out of sight.  Brookesmith's housing stock was pretty much in tact.  Residents were just mostly lower income.  A few too many pitbulls running loose and an occasional crack house, but most everyone was working and looking out for each other and the neighborhood.  IH has a third-world quality to the poverty.  A lot of people are just beyond struggling and are barely surviving.

 

It will gentrify, but it will take time.  If you can keep your money locked up in land up there for 7-10 years and use the cost of carry to write down other gains, you might hit it big.  But, there are so many other parts of town that are ahead of the line for gentrification (East, 5th/3rd ward) and transition from industrial to residential (1st ward, industrial area out by 610 and Old katy, Hardy Yards, Halliburton), that IH might be the ugly duckling for a while as other areas attract attention first.

 

[stuu67]

I agree with you SilverJK, south of the track will gentrify first and it will continue to spread from there. However if you are thinking of buying you may want to start looking and you have to move fast because my experience is there are multiple contracts coming in as these properties come on the market. Especially the ones south of the track. They are getting contracts on them within days.

[SilverJK]

I would say it is worse that Brookesmith 7-8 years ago.  Too many vacant lots and vacant houses.  Too many easy spots for people selling/doing drugs to keep out of sight.  Brookesmith's housing stock was pretty much in tact.  Residents were just mostly lower income.  A few too many pitbulls running loose and an occasional crack house, but most everyone was working and looking out for each other and the neighborhood.  IH has a third-world quality to the poverty.  A lot of people are just beyond struggling and are barely surviving.

 

 

I was unaware you were around 7-8 years ago... the rest of this paragraph pretty much describes brookesmith 8 years ago.  I'll probably buy an IH property (or 2) by Spring. 

[s3mh]

I was unaware you were around 7-8 years ago... the rest of this paragraph pretty much describes brookesmith 8 years ago.  I'll probably buy an IH property (or 2) by Spring. 

 

You are right.  I am only 8 years old.  Or, I mean, you are right that when I lived 2 miles from the Heights for five years before moving to the Heights I never ventured north of I-10 and could not possibly be able to make the simple observation that one neighborhood is filled with vacant lots while another was not. 

 

If Houston's development trajectory stays constant, you will do well in IH, but it will take at least 5 years before any solid appreciation is seen.  If there is a downturn or if the market flattens out, you will be lucky to find anyone who will buy. 

[9075]

Here's some more information on Sullivan's stuff in Independence Heights.

http://www.richmartinhomes.com/uncategorized/independence-heights-new-homes

[s3mh]

http://thezeroenergyhome.com/#news

 

These folks are supposed to be building their energy efficient homes in Independence Heights.  Price point is supposed to be in the upper 100k to mid 200k.  If it ever gets going (have not seen much since the initial media blitz), this kind of project would have a better chance at getting a transition going in Independence Heights than what Sullivan is trying to build.  I just don't see many people who can afford the $300k price range going for a neighborhood that is as beat up as Independence Heights is.  To make matters worse, HISD has been slow walking the demolition of all the homes they bought up by the high school, making a couple of blocks by the school a vagrant/crackhead paradise.  Of course, HISD will eventually get the demos done and build a new high school.  But with the market flattening out, I still do not see any big gains in this area for the next 5-10 years.  This area reminds me of Cottage Grove around 2000.  People were just beginning to venture into the neighborhood at that time.  But Cottage Grove is a better location and has larger lots to build townhome clusters.  Lots in Independence Heights are mostly small.  So, it will be a longer and harder haul to turn around the neighborhood.