Houston School Districts: Should They Try To Accept Chinese International Students

[VicMan]

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/04/154008997/high-school-draws-chinese-students-tuition-dollars

This NPR story talks about a Michigan school district that converted an old elementary school into a dorm so it could house international students from China. Their families pay tuition so the kids go to American high schools.

Should HISD or other school districts in the Houston area do this? Maybe HISD can convert MacGregor or Stevenson elementary into dorms for Chinese students so they can attend Lamar?

Other articles:

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/06/02/news/bangor/chinese-students-pleased-with-maine-education-try-to-grasp-concept-of-free-time/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/27/education/27students.html?pagewanted=all

[Specwriter]

It has been a whole hour since this post and there are not several dozen responses already! I am surprised. This is one of those things I have to think about long and hard. I would did want, and did everything in my power to get, the best possible education for my children. I don't know what the situation is like in China but it intrigues me to learn that sending children to a public school (any public school) in the United States is something parents in another country entertaining.

[trymahjong]

I'm going to ponder this a bit longer also but wanted to add this small bit of info from when my kids were still at Lamar a few years ago.

Each year COH invites students from sister city Dailian, China to visit For a week and bunk in with Lamar High families and shadow those students in their classes. So I guess HISD has the beginnings of a relationship with that small section of China and the Chinese has a small " inkling" of what HISD/Lamar schooling entails. Hmmmmmmm don't know if that's helpful or not.

[VicMan]

I'm going to ponder this a bit longer also but wanted to add this small bit of info from when my kids were still at Lamar a few years ago.

Each year COH invites students from sister city Dailian, China to visit For a week and bunk in with Lamar High families and shadow those students in their classes. So I guess HISD has the beginnings of a relationship with that small section of China and the Chinese has a small " inkling" of what HISD/Lamar schooling entails. Hmmmmmmm don't know if that's helpful or not.

 

That's a good point! The relationship in the NPR article started as one where the Chinese students spent a short time but the schools decided to do long term exchanges. HISD could have a similar relationship with the Dalian high school and have Chinese students live for years in the US and attending Lamar High School.

[IronTiger]

Tricky. The idea of importing students, once you get over the initial idea, since although they would pay for tuition, the stress that would put on the school district would be a losing proposition overall (stress on class sizes, school capacity, etc.). And remember, public schools aren't supposed to make a profit. That's what Perry and his pals have been trying to convert the state schools (UT, A&M) to, and it's becoming a problem.

 

These things are supposed to be taxpayer supported.

[VicMan]

Tricky. The idea of importing students, once you get over the initial idea, since although they would pay for tuition, the stress that would put on the school district would be a losing proposition overall (stress on class sizes, school capacity, etc.). And remember, public schools aren't supposed to make a profit. That's what Perry and his pals have been trying to convert the state schools (UT, A&M) to, and it's becoming a problem.

 

These things are supposed to be taxpayer supported.

 

Many school districts doing this have had overall declining student populations and see importing Chinese students as a way to make up for the losses in student population from the native-born Americans. School districts with burgeoning populations (Katy ISD, Fort Bend ISD, Conroe ISD, etc) will likely see no need to do this.

 

I made it clear that it's not to "turn a profit" but to "make money" since, as you said, public school districts are not allowed to turn profits. But they can use this as a strategy to prevent cuts in state funding. The placement of Chinese students can also add foreign pressure against the state government (If Rick Perry has any Chinese business partners, they can "have his pecker in their pocket" as LBJ said).

[august948]

This is a growing trend at some colleges as well.  The purpose, from the college's viewpoint, is to get students in who are paying the full tuition amount.  The purpose, from the student's viewpoint, is anyone's guess but could be driven by more limited chances to go to college in China.  Most other countries have far fewer spots available in colleges and universities and usually those are filled via an examination process where only the top scorers get in.  I can't help but think, though, that another reason they come here is so they can try to stay after they finish and establish a family connection in case the rest of the family wants to migrate to the US.

[VicMan]

This is a growing trend at some colleges as well.  The purpose, from the college's viewpoint, is to get students in who are paying the full tuition amount.  The purpose, from the student's viewpoint, is anyone's guess but could be driven by more limited chances to go to college in China.  Most other countries have far fewer spots available in colleges and universities and usually those are filled via an examination process where only the top scorers get in.  I can't help but think, though, that another reason they come here is so they can try to stay after they finish and establish a family connection in case the rest of the family wants to migrate to the US.

 

Yes, and by graduating from a US high school it's easier for the student to enter a US university. There has been a dramatic expansion of universities in China but the US universities have better reputations.

 

[IronTiger]

Many school districts doing this have had overall declining student populations and see importing Chinese students as a way to make up for the losses in student population from the native-born Americans. School districts with burgeoning populations (Katy ISD, Fort Bend ISD, Conroe ISD, etc) will likely see no need to do this.

 

I made it clear that it's not to "turn a profit" but to "make money" since, as you said, public school districts are not allowed to turn profits. But they can use this as a strategy to prevent cuts in state funding. The placement of Chinese students can also add foreign pressure against the state government (If Rick Perry has any Chinese business partners, they can "have his pecker in their pocket" as LBJ said).

Yeah, but if they're using that as a defense against school funding cuts, you're now putting pressure on the taxpayers indirectly (at least) by saying they have to still support this with their tax money, which tends to defeat the purpose (if they still need tax money, then it's a losing proposition and doing more harm than good) and a good political reason to oppose it.

Making some extra money can be from varying sources (like advertising on school buses) but it shouldn't involve holding the state hostage for funding. See what I mean?

[august948]

Yes, and by graduating from a US high school it's easier for the student to enter a US university. There has been a dramatic expansion of universities in China but the US universities have better reputations.

 

 

You may have hit the nail on the head.  Could be Chinese parents are aiming to get their kids into top US schools and think that going to high school in the US will help with that.  Also, I'm not exactly certain how the Chinese educational system works, but I know in next-door Vietnam you have to pass an exam to get into high school and so not everyone qualifies.  Those who don't get in, get steered into vocational training.  I think that type of system is more common world-wide than our open enrollment system.  Plus with the system in China rigged to favor Communist officials and others with influence, could be that some people have the money now due to China's economic expansion but not the access to the best state-run schools.

 

[mollusk]

When I was in high school back when the earth was cooling, we had some foreign exchange students, and sent a few of our own elsewhere as well.  That was a much smaller scale thing than what this looks like, though.

[Firebird65]

Absolutely not. HISD and every other public school district in Harris County is in business (supposedly) to educate the children of the tax-paying residents of that district, not to educate the children of the world. If Chinese parents, or the Chinese government, want to educate their children, then they need to do it themselves and not contract it out to us. Now, if they want exchange students, that's just a small program and that's a different story. But no school district should dedicate entire campuses for foreign students, be they paying students or non-paying ones (such as the Central American children now trying to enter the country illegally).

[VicMan]

Absolutely not. HISD and every other public school district in Harris County is in business (supposedly) to educate the children of the tax-paying residents of that district, not to educate the children of the world. If Chinese parents, or the Chinese government, want to educate their children, then they need to do it themselves and not contract it out to us. Now, if they want exchange students, that's just a small program and that's a different story. But no school district should dedicate entire campuses for foreign students, be they paying students or non-paying ones (such as the Central American children now trying to enter the country illegally).

The program described in the NPR article is an exchange with a private school in Beijing but the students stay longer than a few months. Keep in mind that the Chinese students in the NPR article attend the American high school during the day and the only special education they get is from the Chinese tutors after school.

High school-aged illegal immigrants come in with far less education and often have to make money for the family, so this is why HISD opened Liberty High School near Gulfton.

Yeah, but if they're using that as a defense against school funding cuts, you're now putting pressure on the taxpayers indirectly (at least) by saying they have to still support this with their tax money, which tends to defeat the purpose (if they still need tax money, then it's a losing proposition and doing more harm than good) and a good political reason to oppose it.

Making some extra money can be from varying sources (like advertising on school buses) but it shouldn't involve holding the state hostage for funding. See what I mean?

The Michigan district officials state that the tuition from the Chinese students is a net positive for the district, so it should work as long as the Chinese are willing to spend money. This Michigan district is a tiny district that would have more relative infrastructure demands. HISD is far larger and can handle new infrastructure very easily which is why the state gave North Forest to HISD.

Frankly state officials are fair game for pressure. I understand education is more about hard work and less about funding, but if officials try to totally neuter the public education system with budget cuts the districts shouldnt take this lying down. Do you think a corporate industry would?

[IronTiger]

The program described in the NPR article is an exchange with a private school in Beijing but the students stay longer than a few months. Keep in mind that the Chinese students in the NPR article attend the American high school during the day and the only special education they get is from the Chinese tutors after school.

High school-aged illegal immigrants come in with far less education and often have to make money for the family, so this is why HISD opened Liberty High School near Gulfton.

The Michigan district officials state that the tuition from the Chinese students is a net positive for the district, so it should work as long as the Chinese are willing to spend money. This Michigan district is a tiny district that would have more relative infrastructure demands. HISD is far larger and can handle new infrastructure very easily which is why the state gave North Forest to HISD.

Frankly state officials are fair game for pressure. I understand education is more about hard work and less about funding, but if officials try to totally neuter the public education system with budget cuts the districts shouldnt take this lying down. Do you think a corporate industry would?

One of the things you're missing is that Michigan is a state that has been LOSING people for years and thus has more space in schools to play around with. Texas is rapidly GAINING lots of people and thus importing even more people makes no sense. And no, the state didn't "give" North Forest to HISD for infrastructure purposes. It was a consistently failing ISD that was shut down by the state because they were terrible. To note: only 15% of the teachers were re-hired by the HISD, and three old elementary schools and another alternative high school were demolished entirely (that's Tidwell, W.E. Rogers, Lakewood, and W.G. Smiley Career & Technology).

[VicMan]

One of the things you're missing is that Michigan is a state that has been LOSING people for years and thus has more space in schools to play around with. Texas is rapidly GAINING lots of people and thus importing even more people makes no sense. And no, the state didn't "give" North Forest to HISD for infrastructure purposes. It was a consistently failing ISD that was shut down by the state because they were terrible. To note: only 15% of the teachers were re-hired by the HISD, and three old elementary schools and another alternative high school were demolished entirely (that's Tidwell, W.E. Rogers, Lakewood, and W.G. Smiley Career & Technology).

HISD overall has been losing students although in some areas it is gaining students (in places away from the center city).

I am aware that North Forest had poor performance but by infrastructure I meant the state chose HISDbecause it could easily absorb NFISD. Smaller districts may have had more difficulty with absorbing NFISDbut for HISD NFISD was a drop in the bucket.

.

[IronTiger]

HISD may be losing students in some areas, but remember, the only school HISD ended up closing last year was Dodson Elementary. NFISD kept its students, but lost most of its teachers and facilities, with HISD only absorbing a few schools and the students. Either way, absorbing NFISD isn't a relevant argument to importing kids either, especially given that the NFISD kids were already (at least for the most part) citizens who were taxpayer supported (barely, at least).

[VicMan]

HISD may be losing students in some areas, but remember, the only school HISD ended up closing last year was Dodson Elementary. NFISD kept its students, but lost most of its teachers and facilities, with HISD only absorbing a few schools and the students. Either way, absorbing NFISD isn't a relevant argument to importing kids either, especially given that the NFISD kids were already (at least for the most part) citizens who were taxpayer supported (barely, at least).

Its true that one school closed altogether last year but many others in the central city have closed before. Only one NFISD school closed after HISD acquired NFISD. The other NFISD schools closed before.

The Chinese pay tuition to go overseas that can cover every expense. There is a reason American high schools and colleges want them to pay full price. NFISD is very property poor.

[IronTiger]

Its true that one school closed altogether last year but many others in the central city have closed before. Only one NFISD school closed after HISD acquired NFISD. The other NFISD schools closed before.

How many HISD schools have closed without replacement in the last ten years? I can think of Anson Jones and Dodson, but that's it.

[Ross]

There are quite a few that have closed or been repurposed. Stevenson Elementary was closed, sold, and is now being developed by Weekley Homes as townhouses, which is probably my fault, as I argued for doing just that at a public meeting instead of closing Love Elementary.. Wikipedia has a list of defunct schools here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Houston_Independent_School_District_schools#Defunct_schools that should help.

[VicMan]

How many HISD schools have closed without replacement in the last ten years? I can think of Anson Jones and Dodson, but that's it.

 

For schools closed 2004 or later:

 

Zoned schools closed without replacement:

* Allen Elementary (2009)

* Chatham Elementary (2006)

* Clinton Park Elementary (2005)

* Dodson Elementary (2004)

* Douglass Elementary (2005)

* Easter Elementary (2006)

* Eighth Avenue Elementary (2004)

* Fairchild Elementary (2007)

* Anson Jones Elementary (2006)

* J. Will Jones Elementary (2009)

* MacArthur Elementary (closed circa 2011)

* McDade Elementary

* Milam Elementary (2004)

* Rhoads Elementary

* Ryan Elementary (2005)

* Turner Elementary (2009)

* Will Rogers (2006) - St. George Place opened nearby but I wouldn't say it is an exact replacement

 

Zoned schools closed and replaced with magnet schools:

* Jones High School (2014)

* Ryan Middle School (2013)

 

Zoned schools closed with other replacement

* Bellfort Academy (consolidated into Lewis ES, repurposed as a PreK)

* Argyle Elementary (2005 - temporary school made while Foerster was expanded)

* Sanderson Elementary (2006) - Converted into Cook ES

[Tower26]

I see this would be a idea for the universities . 

[VicMan]

I see this would be a idea for the universities . 

 

That's right. The universities want the Chinese students since they pay full price tuition. Now some public school districts in the US have gotten the same idea...

[Blue Dogs]

Bigger question is whether this venture will be successful in the long run?

[VicMan]

Bigger question is whether this venture will be successful in the long run?

 

Good question! The school district agreement for Lake Shores was signed in 2011 and the NPR story was done in 2012. It's 2014 and AFAIK it's still going on.

 

Also maybe we can check on the Maine school districts which do this.