Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If you can find a way to create a mountain range or huge body of water to surround Houston then we will be able to combat sprawl. Until then, it's going to keep happening.Or growth limits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Or growth limits Why would you impose artificial growth limits? They don't work, and aren't needed. When growth limits are imposed, people end up paying far more for less housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Why would you impose artificial growth limits? They don't work, and aren't needed. When growth limits are imposed, people end up paying far more for less housing.Portland says hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Portland says hello.I don't think you want to argue that growth limits in Portland have kept house prices lower than without the limits. Especially for single family homes that families like to live in. You know, with a yard, good schools nearby, and so on. I've never seen anything about Portland that makes it an attractive place to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Portland says hello. Portland says "help!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 I don't think you want to argue that growth limits in Portland have kept house prices lower than without the limits. Especially for single family homes that families like to live in. You know, with a yard, good schools nearby, and so on. I've never seen anything about Portland that makes it an attractive place to live.I'm not arguing that growth limits have helped keep house prices lower, but they have made Portland a dynamic and attractive place to live, that's undeniable.I think there's a generational gap in your thinking. The young people now don't care so much about a yard, and with gentrification schools should improve naturally with population shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Portland says "help!"Yes help because so many people want to live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 These stats may mean nothing, but a quick look shows that the median income/house price for Portland is $68,100/$257,000, while Houston is $68,100/$164,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 These stats may mean nothing, but a quick look shows that the median income/house price for Portland is $68,100/$257,000, while Houston is $68,100/$164,000. That means that Portland is great...for certain income brackets. Artificially limiting growth will eventually lead to a city where the middle class is squeezed out (a la San Francisco). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Yes help because so many people want to live there. Most of them being pasty white hipsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 That means that Portland is great...for certain income brackets. Artificially limiting growth will eventually lead to a city where the middle class is squeezed out (a la San Francisco).Higher demand = more people want to live there because of higher quality of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Most of them being pasty white hipsters.Tell us how you really feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Tell us how you really feel Portland's a great town to visit, but in my visits it's seemed to be 90% pasty white people and 10% asian. Not diverse enough for my taste. Of course, that could just be the demographics of the people who can afford to live and hangout in downtown Portland. Higher demand = more people want to live there because of higher quality of life Higher demand and less available housing = middle class squeezed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I think there's a generational gap in your thinking. The young people now don't care so much about a yard, and with gentrification schools should improve naturally with population shifts. Every generation thinks it's "different". Yet a surprisingly high number of your generation will develop a taste for more space at less cost with a yard, too. At best they'll demand the amenities and employment be moved out to where they live in the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Every generation thinks it's "different". Yet a surprisingly high number of your generation will develop a taste for more space at less cost with a yard, too. At best they'll demand the amenities and employment be moved out to where they live in the suburbs.Out of the people I know under 30, less then 5% live in suburbs, including people married with kids. People are sick of commuting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Portland's a great town to visit, but in my visits it's seemed to be 90% pasty white people and 10% asian. Not diverse enough for my taste. Of course, that could just be the demographics of the people who can afford to live and hangout in downtown Portland.Higher demand and less available housing = middle class squeezed out.So you support the fair housing act be implemented fully, which requires a percentage of affordable housing in all cities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Out of the people I know under 30, less then 5% live in suburbs, including people married with kids. Unedited quote left with emphasis added, no further comment. On the highway itself (wrote this down, but didn't post somehow), I think it makes 290 very different looking (that area wasn't even limited access a decade ago!), it's a shame about that burial site, but it doesn't really encourage sprawl as that area was sprawling fast before. So you support the fair housing act be implemented fully, which requires a percentage of affordable housing in all cities? Believe or not, The Woodlands does have affordable housing included in the master plan designed by the late George Mitchell (a lengthy article on Mitchell and The Woodlands from 1994 is displayed in a physics building named after him at TAMU). Based on your other thoughts on the way cities should be, you seem like you would be the person to say you like cities but really want master planned communities, provided that they're higher density with residential above retail (and I'm not the first to suggest this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Every generation thinks it's "different". Yet a surprisingly high number of your generation will develop a taste for more space at less cost with a yard, too. At best they'll demand the amenities and employment be moved out to where they live in the suburbs.I'm not so sure about that... The world is changing.I really hope your wrong about that last part. I'm all for employment and amenities close to home, but suburbs are not a sustainable life style. If the people want to be close to employment and amenities they should stop being so stubborn and MOVE to where the employment and amenities are. Not try to force those things to move to the burbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If you want to live in a teeming metropolis with people squeezed into tiny hovels all around you, great... go for it! A large portion of American society DOESN'T want that. It's one of the great things about being American, we can all find somewhere we like and can afford. Personally, I wouldn't shed a tear at all if "downtown" disappeared tomorrow, since it holds zero interest for me, but I know others love it and I have no issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Out of the people I know under 30, less then 5% live in suburbs, including people married with kids. People are sick of commuting. And that's exactly why 8 out of every 10 home sales occurs outside the loop...oh, wait a minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 So you support the fair housing act be implemented fully, which requires a percentage of affordable housing in all cities? Is that aimed at middle class families? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm not so sure about that... The world is changing.I really hope your wrong about that last part. I'm all for employment and amenities close to home, but suburbs are not a sustainable life style. If the people want to be close to employment and amenities they should stop being so stubborn and MOVE to where the employment and amenities are. Not try to force those things to move to the burbs. People tend to move where they can afford the housing. That's increasingly not inside the loop or even near it. Those people also include decision makers who might find they can buy a much larger house and piece of land futher out than they can in the central core of the city. The Woodlands, for instance, has some very pricy homes, far outside the reach of middle class workers. Who's buying those? Business owners. Once they're out in the suburbs it's not a hard decsion to move the workplace as well. Plus, it's cheaper to buy or build facilities on the outskirts rather than inside the loop. That's driving a trend to distribute employment outwards. It really all comes down to economics and you may need to experience the middle class squeeze yourself to really apreciate what drives peoples decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Unedited quote left with emphasis added, no further comment.On the highway itself (wrote this down, but didn't post somehow), I think it makes 290 very different looking (that area wasn't even limited access a decade ago!), it's a shame about that burial site, but it doesn't really encourage sprawl as that area was sprawling fast before.Believe or not, The Woodlands does have affordable housing included in the master plan designed by the late George Mitchell (a lengthy article on Mitchell and The Woodlands from 1994 is displayed in a physics building named after him at TAMU). Based on your other thoughts on the way cities should be, you seem like you would be the person to say you like cities but really want master planned communities, provided that they're higher density with residential above retail (and I'm not the first to suggest this).1. Has the woodlands incorporated this?2. I know a lot of people. 3. Zoning is a master planned community? Way to twist words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 And that's exactly why 8 out of every 10 home sales occurs outside the loop...oh, wait a minute...Because they are cheap. Low quality of life is the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 People tend to move where they can afford the housing. That's increasingly not inside the loop or even near it. Those people also include decision makers who might find they can buy a much larger house and piece of land futher out than they can in the central core of the city. The Woodlands, for instance, has some very pricy homes, far outside the reach of middle class workers. Who's buying those? Business owners. Once they're out in the suburbs it's not a hard decsion to move the workplace as well. Plus, it's cheaper to buy or build facilities on the outskirts rather than inside the loop. That's driving a trend to distribute employment outwards. It really all comes down to economics and you may need to experience the middle class squeeze yourself to really apreciate what drives peoples decisions.There are plenty of affordable areas in the loop as well but many people are simply afraid of poor people particularly those without white skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt16 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Why do you think you have the right to tell me, or anybody else how or where we should live? Why are you so important that you get to decide these things for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 1. Has the woodlands incorporated this? 2. I know a lot of people. 3. Zoning is a master planned community? Way to twist words. Well, the article was from a 1994 issue of A&M Magazine, by which time The Woodlands had acquired places to work (no longer a bedroom community), had a few high-profile crimes, and so forth. George Mitchell even stated in said article that he wanted to The Woodlands to have a similar diversity makeup as Houston (and interestingly, in the mid-1990s, The Woodlands was slightly whiter than it is today). Now, do I know exactly where the affordable housing is? No, because I'm not too familiar with The Woodlands, but I'm guessing you aren't either. As for "knowing a lot of people", you missed the point of well, your point. If you surround yourself with well-off (not exactly "rich", but enough with an income and a decent apartment) people who live in the city, vote liberal, etc. you're going to get a different viewpoint than the population as a whole. As for "zoning is a master planned community", I never said that zoning was like a master planned community (who's twisting words here, again?), but you seem to have a viewpoint on the way things ought to be...all walkable, affordable housing in the area, high density, no surface lots, etc. You have a criteria built out in your mind, perhaps inspired by what you've seen in Europe or other places, and everything is doing it "wrong", from "Midtown shouldn't have surface lots at all" to "The suburbs ought to burn in hell" (I know you didn't say that last part, I'm just dramatizing things here). What you really WANT is an urban, master-planned community (New Urbanism, in fact) but would never admit to that fact as it would sound too commercialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 There are plenty of affordable areas in the loop as well but many people are simply afraid of poor people particularly those without white skin. Those affordable areas generally have smaller lots and old houses in various states of repair. Schools are an issue as well. And, the risk of ebing a property crime victim is much higher when you have the best stuff in the neighborhood. We seriously considered buying 4 houses on the Near North Side (think Collingsworth and Hardy), tearing them down and building a single house in the middle. we gave up on that when we found a house we like on a large lot near the Heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Because they are cheap. Low quality of life is the reason. I'm afraid quality of life is a subjective measure and thus varys from person to person. You may not like it but people have opinions of things that vary from your own. Unfortunately, not everyone has the resources you have available and thus would be forced into an apartment, a house too small for their needs, a school distirct that gets poor marks and/or a high crime area in order to afford someting not in the suburbs. Not surprisingly, many jump at the chance to get a decent sized house with a yard in a good school district. Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change. There are plenty of affordable areas in the loop as well but many people are simply afraid of poor people particularly those without white skin. Believe it or not, quite a few suburbanites in this city are not white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If you want to live in a teeming metropolis with people squeezed into tiny hovels all around you, great... go for it! A large portion of American society DOESN'T want that. It's one of the great things about being American, we can all find somewhere we like and can afford. Personally, I wouldn't shed a tear at all if "downtown" disappeared tomorrow, since it holds zero interest for me, but I know others love it and I have no issue with that. Personally, I'd like to see downtown be mostly residential with the employment centers on the outskirts. Then inside the loop would be a place to live and play and the commuting could be distributed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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