Houston Botanical Garden At The Glenbrook Golf Course

[astrohip]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:41 AM, thatguysly said:

 once a guy smoking a joint with his toddler

 

Start 'em young! 😋

[Twinsanity02]

10 minutes ago, astrohip said:

 

Start 'em young! 😋

Seriously, all joking aside, the scientific literature on the impact early drug use has on psychological development indicates many people develop arrested emotional development. In other words physically mature adults still acting as adolescents. Just thought I'd mention that.

[trymahjong]

I signed up as volunteer, they vetted me, and walked around to view construction that will lead to opening of section this fall.

 

Two interesting tidbits for me- 

The first year after land acquisition, decided not to mow......nothing sprang up till a year later.

Everything “on site”  will be reused somehow, nothing taken offsite.....cut down trees, old dirt.....everything. Hmmmmm

[X.R.]

58 minutes ago, trymahjong said:

I signed up as volunteer, they vetted me, and walked around to view construction that will lead to opening of section this fall.

 

Two interesting tidbits for me- 

The first year after land acquisition, decided not to mow......nothing sprang up till a year later.

Everything “on site”  will be reused somehow, nothing taken offsite.....cut down trees, old dirt.....everything. Hmmmmm

 

So that whole video that was posted in the thread is opening this year? Thats pretty impressive if so. Was there any reason why it took so long for stuff to grow? I guess if memory served me right, the ground there was kinda hard.

 

[Luminare]

4 minutes ago, X.R. said:

 

So that whole video that was posted in the thread is opening this year? Thats pretty impressive if so. Was there any reason why it took so long for stuff to grow? I guess if memory served me right, the ground there was kinda hard.

 

 

Yeah we need one of our top field photographers to check it out. I feel like we sort of forgot that this was a thing.

[marstrose]

who's gonna build it?

[trymahjong]

Uhmmmmmmmm

I was told, The HBG will open in phases.....kids garden and community garden will be first.

[HoustonIsHome]

On 2/6/2020 at 10:48 AM, X.R. said:

 

So that whole video that was posted in the thread is opening this year? Thats pretty impressive if so. Was there any reason why it took so long for stuff to grow? I guess if memory served me right, the ground there was kinda hard.

 

Modern landscaping is tough on soil health.

Ground that is continuously mowed gets compact because mowed grass leads to shallow roots which do little to open up the soil.

 

That's not even taking to account the stress from walking back and forth on the soil by mowing and golfers.

 

Other negative habits we do to keeping things picture perfect is blowing grass clippings and raking up leaves. The plants and grass are actively soaking up nutrients from the soil and what do we do? We actively remove nutrients by blowing away the organic matter.

 

Soils then get depleted of nutrients so what do we do? We buy fertilizers to compensate. As with all things, excessive human intervention corrects one imbalance while Knocking off a range of others. Inorganic fertilizers salt the ground and along with pesticides and herbicides, harm beneficial organisms necessary for good soil health. So I can see why few things grow the first few years.

 

I hate putting down my city but Houston lags in modern trends in landscape design. I hate mowing and find it silly to pay someone 45 bucks every week or two to mow a lawn that I never use so I jumped on the reduced lawn bandwagon. 

 

I encircled the yard with native trees and bushes and used the inner portion to grow fruits and veggies. The first few years the plants struggled but now they do their own thing with little intervention from me. Established natives require little watering, the plants feed me and I have a relaxing spot that I use instead of a boring lawn that I never went on. I use the chop and drop method when I prune so that I limit wastage on nutrients. I had a bug problem the first two years but now the few that are left are too insignificant to do that much damage.

I am just glad that there is no HOA in my area, but because of the outer ring of evergreens you wouldn't really be able to tell how much of a forest the yard is.

 

I would say Austin is the city in Texas that has caught on to the reduced lawn/native plant bandwagon the most. Not because of trends but it off necessity.  It is a less wet city than Houston and quite costly to keep lawns alive over there with recent boughts of drought. 

[Luminare]

15 minutes ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Modern landscaping is tough on soil health.

Ground that is continuously mowed gets compact because mowed grass leads to shallow roots which do little to open up the soil.

 

That's not even taking to account the stress from walking back and forth on the soil by mowing and golfers.

 

Other negative habits we do to keeping things picture perfect is blowing grass clippings and raking up leaves. The plants and grass are actively soaking up nutrients from the soil and what do we do? We actively remove nutrients by blowing away the organic matter.

 

Soils then get depleted of nutrients so what do we do? We buy fertilizers to compensate. As with all things, excessive human intervention corrects one imbalance while Knocking off a range of others. Inorganic fertilizers salt the ground and along with pesticides and herbicides, harm beneficial organisms necessary for good soil health. So I can see why few things grow the first few years.

 

I hate putting down my city but Houston lags in modern trends in landscape design. I hate mowing and find it silly to pay someone 45 bucks every week or two to mow a lawn that I never use so I jumped on the reduced lawn bandwagon. 

 

I encircled the yard with native trees and bushes and used the inner portion to grow fruits and veggies. The first few years the plants struggled but now they do their own thing with little intervention from me. Established natives require little watering, the plants feed me and I have a relaxing spot that I use instead of a boring lawn that I never went on. I use the chop and drop method when I prune so that I limit wastage on nutrients. I had a bug problem the first two years but now the few that are left are too insignificant to do that much damage.

I am just glad that there is no HOA in my area, but because of the outer ring of evergreens you wouldn't really be able to tell how much of a forest the yard is.

 

I would say Austin is the city in Texas that has caught on to the reduced lawn/native plant bandwagon the most. Not because of trends but it off necessity.  It is a less wet city than Houston and quite costly to keep lawns alive over there with recent boughts of drought. 

 

Houston is also a more complex environment being in the sub-tropics. We seem to be a node where everything starts off from. What might work in one part of Houston might not work in others. Of course I'm not saying that more arid or temperate climates aren't as complex, but they certainly have a more consistent climate that one can reasonably adapt too, and be successful over longer stretches of time. For instance the past few years Houston had very well balanced seasons, but then later we went to a simple hot and cold season with lots of rain, and many years before that we had several years of drought with simple hot and cold. Then of course I say we had nice balanced seasons the past few years, but then all the sudden a hurricane rolls on by. Its utterly ridiculous. Austin just has to prepare for one thing...that its going to be hot in the summer, and more often than not they will experience drought. There is just so many moving pieces in our climate and its different if I were in Katy than if I were in Spring, or in Downtown.

 

I will say this, I've become a devote follower of the SandyLeaf Fig. Such an awesome plant. Green all year round, yet can handle massive rains, and withstand some punishing heat, and is better for the soil than a lot of undergrowth, and it helps with water runoff, plus its beautiful. There are many others like it, but its the one plant I've seen thus far that just works in our crazy climate.

[Twinsanity02]

It is complex. The Houston metro appears to have three large ecosystems: The Northern swath north of Beltway 8 is heavily forested to the point it is jungle like especially in the northeast (where I live).  It is an especially thick version of the Southern Pinelands. It has much in common with Southern Louisiana. The western metro appears drier and more prairie like, and the southeast region has a wet coastal environment. There are not to many cities with this variety. It is one of the things (among many) which is fascinating about our area. I think this area is gifted with the ability to grow an enormous variety of plants.

[Luminare]

20 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

It is complex. The Houston metro appears to have three large ecosystems: The Northern swath north of Beltway 8 is heavily forested to the point it is jungle like especially in the northeast (where I live).  It is an especially thick version of the Southern Pinelands. It has much in common with Southern Louisiana. The western metro appears drier and more prairie like, and the southeast region has a wet coastal environment. There are not to many cities with this variety. It is one of the things (among many) which is fascinating about our area. I think this area is gifted with the ability to grow an enormous variety of plants.

 

You really notice it when you drive all of 99. Not only does it drive like the Autobahn haha, but you also get the chance to see just how much variety in our ecosystem we have. We might lack elevation, but we more than make up for it with ecosystem variety.

[samagon]

 

1 hour ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Modern landscaping is tough on soil health.

Ground that is continuously mowed gets compact because mowed grass leads to shallow roots which do little to open up the soil.

 

That's not even taking to account the stress from walking back and forth on the soil by mowing and golfers.

 

Other negative habits we do to keeping things picture perfect is blowing grass clippings and raking up leaves. The plants and grass are actively soaking up nutrients from the soil and what do we do? We actively remove nutrients by blowing away the organic matter.

 

Soils then get depleted of nutrients so what do we do? We buy fertilizers to compensate. As with all things, excessive human intervention corrects one imbalance while Knocking off a range of others. Inorganic fertilizers salt the ground and along with pesticides and herbicides, harm beneficial organisms necessary for good soil health. So I can see why few things grow the first few years.

 

golf courses are very unique circumstances, and I don't think we can compare the rest of Houston to how they are maintained.

 

while I agree the soil is very compacted, golf courses are aerated at least twice a year. 

 

you also can't compare how different parts of the course are maintained. the greens are cut exceedingly short, and very often, which does result in exactly what you are saying with a root system that is very shallow. fairways are going to be longer, and not cut as often, and then there's the first rough cut which is even longer still. that's not taking any consideration for things like sand traps, or other course hazards.

 

the biggest problem that golf courses introduce and that stays in the soil is chemicals that are used (thanks Monsanto, probably) to fertilize so that the grass you want to grow grows healthy, but everything else is stunted, or doesn't grow at all. these chemicals likely stay in the soil having an effect longer than the root systems would make a difference. 

 

I mean, if roundup can build up in the system of people who deploy it and they get cancer from it, then I imagine it can stay in the soil for a period of time too, still having an effect on the plants that can grow in the space.

 

the reality is not that Houston doesn't know how to maintain things, it's that golf courses have very specific needs, and Monsanto is the devil.

Edited February 7, 2020 by samagon

[HoustonIsHome]

I agree with responses, but I should have mentioned that I live very close to that area so the climatic conditions are the same.

 

@Luminare I like the Sandy leaf fig too. I was tempted to get some of the variegated ones but I might wait until I prepare a spot in the back yard to give it room to do its thing.

 

@Twinsanity02 yes it is fascinating. Houston straddles between zones 8b through 9b towards the coast. Since most tropicals survive in zone 9 and higher while temperate plants thrive in zone 9 or lower we are able to grow a large variety of plants. 

 

@samagon I didn't mean to imply that Houston knows less than other cities ( for example I mentioned that Austin is going away from lawned front yards out of necessity. What I mean to say is that for a city that changes every time you blink your eye, in terms of gardening trends we resist change fiercely.

 

A single family home set in the middle of the lot with vast lawnscape and scant foundation planting is something that has been since about the 1950s. The fact that this style has been the standard says something. It is a really picture perfect style. But for me it is a very boring style. Apart from the negative effects of so much of the landsurface covered in concrete and lawn, I also am not a fan of foundation plantings that often go with the lawns. Plants such as ligustrums are overly used as a foundation plant but it shouldn't be at all. These are trees with an eventual height of 15 plus feet and although they make cute hedges for a few years, eventually it becomes very difficult to Keep it looking pleasant when planted 2 feet from your house.  Ligustrums make beautiful ever green trees.

 

Also @samagon although the greens are worse in terms of root depth the rest of the course is still very bad. For beginners the variety of grass used for lawns don't have deep roots to begin with. Then you don't have to cut the grass as low as the greens to have reduced root growth.

We usually buy lawn grass in sheets with about an inch of roots. Those roots don't grow much further in the soil even if we don't clip the grass that short. 

 

The prairie grasses native to our area have deeper roots and held our soils better and aided in flood mitigation by absorbing water. St Augustine, Bermuda grass etc are not native and have very shallow roots. Kentucky blue Grass and various fescues have much deeper roots. 

 

Compacted soil act like the seas of concrete that plague or city. The water just runs off and doesn't help with the flooding. When I bought the house my yard was consistently soupy when it rained and that would last for days. Since I got rid of the grass and planted deeper rooted pants the yard no longer floods and the water gets absorbed days quicker. 

 

I am very happy that the poster mentioned the more naturalistic approach the botanical gardens are taking by letting things sit undisturbed for a while and reusing most of what grew on the land instead of hauling it off.

Apart from nourishing the soil, using felled trees as edging creates habitats for organisms that also contribute to good soil health and I really like the natural look. Instead of termites, now when I lift a log I see tons of worms, bugs, mushrooms. 

 

I am very excited about this project and being 5 minutes from my house I might be a frequent visitor. I love Herman Park, but was hoping the gardens wouldn't be Hermann 2.0 and so far it doesn't sound like it is being planned that way. Crossing my fingers that it will become a medium for showcasing something different for our city. 

[Twinsanity02]

Spoke yesterday with a lady at the Azalea trail. She is a volunteer at the Botanic Garden. Told me they've had a "soft opening" of the Botanic Garden with the major opening scheduled for the Fall. 

[trymahjong]

I asked the Director of Communications of HBC:

 

He replied

We held a community sneak peek event on Sunday, Jan. 26. It was primarily for residents of the three zip codes closest to our site, but Houstonia magazine did include details on its website, so word got out a little more broadly than we expected. We had almost 1,000 RSVPs (many of which came in quickly once word got out), so we didn’t do much broad promotion of it after that.

 

Volunteering on-site or attending one of our spring programs are the current ways people can get in to see how things have progressed.

 

Justin Lacey

DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS & COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT

[EaDo Lou]

https://abc13.com/community-events/houston-botanic-garden-opens-to-the-public-today/6424092/

[Triton]

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Houston Botanic Garden by Marc longoria, on Flickr

[AnTonY]

^^^ Whoa, it's shaping up real nice. Just imagine if it were Gus that were chosen.

[kennyc05]

33 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

^^^ Whoa, it's shaping up real nice. Just imagine if it were Gus that were chosen.

Yep I wish it was connected to Hermann how the Atlanta Gardens are connected to Piedmont. I feel like this park is too far from the core 🤦🏽‍♂️

[AnTonY]

17 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

Yep I wish it was connected to Hermann how the Atlanta Gardens are connected to Piedmont. I feel like this park is too far from the core 🤦🏽‍♂️

 

That's definitely all true. Though the definition of Houston's core might eventually expand/shift eastward, depending on how successful the Buffalo Bayou development projects are.

[HOUCAJUN]

This is an odd part of town for this. Does the surrounding area compliment this?

[tangledwoods]

Quote

This is an odd part of town for this. Does the surrounding area compliment this?

 

 

odd location = good clean local (totally not sketchy) politics.  I am not saying it is a bad location, but it was 1000% placed there based on politics.

 

Ironically, there was a decent amount of pushback against the project by local folks.  It seems that no one "won" in the end.  But of course someone did...

[Avossos]

I️ think everyone who is critical of the location needs to take a deep breath of Houston air. For those who aren’t paying attention, this span of Houston from Lawndale to Hobby is becoming considerably more attractive. Some big investments are happening.

 

this area in 15 years won’t feel so ‘odd’. There were many factors in this and I️ think this will be good in the long term.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Avossos

[nate4l1f3]

Don’t know the politics of it all but I have no problem giving poor parts of town nice parks. 

[X.R.]

3 hours ago, Avossos said:

I️ think everyone who is critical of the location needs to take a deep breath of Houston air. For those who aren’t paying attention, this span of Houston from Lawndale to Hobby is becoming considerable more attractive. Some big investments are happening.

 

this area in 15 years won’t feel so ‘odd’. There were many factors in this and I️ think this will be good in the long term.

 

One can only hope. Growing up in and around the area, and then seeing this placed there without ridiculous fanfare and what not is something I don't think I could have imagined. Its too nice, but maybe thats the point. Now these people can take their kids somewhere nice that is closer to home and doesn't require you to navigate all this traffic to get to a park and then parking fees or signs you don't understand. On the flip side, it expands potential Houston tourism/arts to its southern-most point (within the loop) and with it all the negative externalities some may prescribe to that. 

 

Like you said, Lawndale to Hobby (I'd argue to Almeda Mall) is getting busier now but before it felt like we were forgotten/left behind. A blip on everyone's radar as they went home to Clear Lake or Pasadena. I hope the Botanical Garden is doing outreach to the local communities letting them know all the rules and prices. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by X.R.

[thedistrict84]

6 hours ago, AnTonY said:

^^^ Whoa, it's shaping up real nice. Just imagine if it were Gus that were chosen.

 

I'm glad they went with this location instead. Gus Wortham has more historical provenance as a golf course and made more sense to renovate. Plus, there are not many golf courses within the loop--as far as public courses go, it's just Hermann, Memorial, and Gus Wortham I believe.  

 

The Glenbrook Golf Course was . . . not great. The Botanical Gardens look to be a vast improvement on the space occupied by the old course. 

[Triton]

Based on this project, the Broadway St rebuild to Hobby, the city's push to remove unwanted billboards/marketing in the area, and having a complete rebuild of neighborhood streets in the area, it's obvious that the city is trying to get this area to begin some sort of redevelopment so that they can increase the attractiveness of Hobby Airport.

[samagon]

On 11/9/2020 at 7:56 AM, AnTonY said:

^^^ Whoa, it's shaping up real nice. Just imagine if it were Gus that were chosen.

 

 

let it go.

 

Gus Wortham is a historic golf course, it is a far better golf course than Glenbrook ever was, Glenbrook was in far worse shape as a golf course.

 

 

would you rather have a botanical garden that has a US highway running along nearly an entire mile long stretch adjacent to the site, or an interstate freeway that runs along less than 1/3 of a mile of a section of botanical garden that is kind of hard to reach?

 

I guess both sites are very 'Houston' (aka no zoning is very obvious) at Glenbrook you can see the tips of refinery stacks in the distance, at Gus Wortham you have Fiesta, pawn shops, and strip centers across the street.

 

Glenbrook is in a far more serene setting for a botanical garden, nestled in the middle of a neighborhood, while yes, there is a 1/3 of a mile stretch that is adjacent to the freeway, it's kind of an off to the side area, you can't hear/see freeway in most of the garden.

 

anywho, those photos really don't offer such an accurate representation of how built up (or not built up) the botanical gardens are right now. there are 2 areas that are built up at the moment, one section is near the entrance and is a very beautiful representation of what I hope most of the garden will be eventually, there is another section near the old clubhouse that is a 'lake', bathrooms, and some playground equipment. 95% of the grounds is former cart paths that are now walking paths through the 'wetlands'.

 

$15 per person for admission is a bit much at the moment. don't get me wrong, I've paid more for less entertainment, but when you can go to the arboretum for free, or the Sam Houston national forest, or get a day pass to a state park. I probably won't go back for a few years.

 

[AnTonY]

@samagon

 

It's all been pretty chill. I simply expressed preference with for the Gus location, but I still very much enjoyed those Botanic development photos taking place at Glenbrook.

 

My preference for Gus was based strictly on proximity to the population mass of Houston - the area was more integrated, and even had a direct light rail connection. Whereas the Glenbrook location is a bit farther off, though not totally suburban. I don't really care for any golf course, quite frankly, and wouldn't lose sleep if they all got replaced with something else.

 

You do have a good case regarding proximity to freeways, but I supposed that depends on where specifically the garden would have been placed at Gus (closer to Brays would have been farther way). Also, some years back, there was a suggestion that called for alteration along the nearby freeway - I believe it was to sink the entire stretch, underground, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Nevertheless, as mentioned before, I very much enjoy the development of the park even at Glenbrook. And as some other posts mentioned, Houston seems to have quite some plans regarding Hobby and the entire Eastern End. Looking forward to seeing what comes of them.

 

 

[thatguysly]

There are some nice older homes about this location. It will be interesting to see if the area sort is sort of lifted by this project. I think about the Botanical Garden in Fort Worth since I grew up going there. That area took a very long time to turn around and there were a lot more factors than just the garden. 

 

The walking/biking trails along the Bayou are cool too.