Casinos Coming To Texas?

[BigFootsSocks]

True, I will admit that point, they're "better" than lotto tickets but those are just as much of a scam

[IronTiger]

I realize it's not a waterproof argument, but I find it interesting that areas that are open to casino gambling also happen to be pretty sucky places in general. For example: New Jersey, Louisiana, and Las Vegas. When was the last time you heard anyone telling you how great places they were to live?

[BigFootsSocks]

Something something causation correlation

Seriously though, before anyone jumps on it, he does not mean they're poor places because of casinos. Lousiana has some nice places and uhhhh...well Vegas is trash and NJ is NJ. However, it's not just a coincidence that these places are home to the failing casino market.

[arche_757]

New Jersey's biggest cities are suburbs of New York and Philadelphia.... the other areas in that state are quite nice.  Atlantic City - like many "rust belt" towns is bad not because of gambling, but because of failures on every other level.  I'm sure if the casino owners spend the time/effort/money that Vegas did with their casinos AC wouldn't be quite as bad off.

 

New Orleans (for what its worth) has only 1 casino - Harrah's.  Which only opened about 10 years ago.  Before that its safe to say most of NOLA was a dump.  Can we blame casinos on that?  The Mississippi Gulf Coast was in fairly bad shape prior to casinos taking a key part in helping to reinvigorate that stretch of coast line.  Vicksburg, Natchez and other cities along the Mississippi that have casinos were in less than favorable conditions pre-casinos, not post-casinos.

 

To argue that any place that currently has casinos is worse off than before...well, petty property crime may have risen a bit - I don't know?  But I'll wager that overall the influx of money, tourists etc. due to casinos (for the above mentioned cities) has greatly outweighed the negatives.  Do casinos bring about people that are less than savory?  Yep.  Bars, clubs and liquor stores bring about the same unsavory types.  If we closed, or chose to not allow businesses that might attract 5% of its base (if even that high of a number) who are unsavory, disreputable or otherwise have problems then just about every business that serves food or drink would be automatically shuttered.

 

Again - I'm not saying we allow 100% casinos in 100% of Texas.  I'm saying we pass an law that allows 4-6 in select areas, and put some financial requirements on them to keep Joe's Beer, Gas and Slots from opening.

[Montrose1100]

Something something causation correlation

Seriously though, before anyone jumps on it, he does not mean they're poor places because of casinos. Lousiana has some nice places and uhhhh...well Vegas is trash and NJ is NJ. However, it's not just a coincidence that these places are home to the failing casino market.

Vegas is not trash, you are clearly thinking of Louisiana.

Have you been to Vegas? Are you old enough to gamble? Have you ever gambled?

Obviously I am self aware that gambling is basically throwing your money away, but it's fun to me. It's not like every casino in Louisiana and vegas have people on the streets begging to go inside while drinking a 40 because of their addictions. Even still why are you being such a wet blanket and ruining the fun for the rest of us? You big foot jerk.

[Fringe]

It's been a while since I've been in Atlantic City but the way I remember it the casinos and board walk was the nice features of the city. Travel a block away though and it gets downright scary. I don't think Harrah's in New Orleans has had much of an impact on the city at all. It is kind of fun to watch all the "players" in their big black SUV's crowd into the place. I think every drug dealer on the Gulf Coast must go there. If anything Lake Charles has improved with the casinos. I haven't been to Vegas in years but it seems it's entertainment that attracts most people there now, not gambling.

 

I think, like the lotto, initially Texas casinos would be popular but would grow old after a while. Does anyone remember how crowded the dog racing park by Texas City was when it first opened? Now there's more employees then customers most nights. 

[luciaphile]

Don't worry, gambling HAIF-ers! With any luck at all you'll have your casinos within the decade; and perhaps one of them will also appeal to your love of architecture, as does this fine establishment to our north:

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2550/3713553240_855a9bdcdb_z.jpg

 

 

[IronTiger]

Well, right now the casino demand is down, earnings are down, and the jobs and economic boost are reliant on that. And it will depress property values either way (which cuts into the tax base)

[BigFootsSocks]

Vegas is not trash, you are clearly thinking of Louisiana.

Have you been to Vegas? Are you old enough to gamble? Have you ever gambled?

Obviously I am self aware that gambling is basically throwing your money away, but it's fun to me. It's not like every casino in Louisiana and vegas have people on the streets begging to go inside while drinking a 40 because of their addictions. Even still why are you being such a wet blanket and ruining the fun for the rest of us? You big foot jerk.

Ahhh cmon, LA has great fishing and French Quarter is pretty cool.

The casinos are trash tho and that's what I'm afraid Texas will turn into. Vegas wouldn't be bad, but Vegas was built on casinos. If those fail, what happens to the city? Obviously that's not their only form of income but that's its symbol.

[Montrose1100]

Don't worry, gambling HAIF-ers! With any luck at all you'll have your casinos within the decade; and perhaps one of them will also appeal to your love of architecture, as does this fine establishment to our north:

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2550/3713553240_855a9bdcdb_z.jpg

There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

 

Ahhh cmon, LA has great fishing and French Quarter is pretty cool.

The casinos are trash tho and that's what I'm afraid Texas will turn into. Vegas wouldn't be bad, but Vegas was built on casinos. If those fail, what happens to the city? Obviously that's not their only form of income but that's its symbol.

Have you been to L'auberge in Lake Charles? Really cool place. The hotel is awesome, the rooms are great, they throw pool parties with live bands (some loungey, some MTV spring break stuff), Probably the best Casino in the state. Coushatte is a nice place, but kinda out of the way. And what are all the licence plates in the parking lot? you guessed it, Texas.

 

I only want for Galveston to prosper, bring in some more cash and tourists. I mean, have you been to the Mardi Gras down there? TRASH central...

[BigFootsSocks]

I'm with you on that last part, but I just don't think casinos are the answer.

[Dakota79]

There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

Have you been to L'auberge in Lake Charles? Really cool place. The hotel is awesome, the rooms are great, they throw pool parties with live bands (some loungey, some MTV spring break stuff), Probably the best Casino in the state. Coushatte is a nice place, but kinda out of the way. And what are all the licence plates in the parking lot? you guessed it, Texas.

I only want for Galveston to prosper, bring in some more cash and tourists. I mean, have you been to the Mardi Gras down there? TRASH central...

I agree with you 100%. All Texas plates in Lake Charles.

And they have nice new roads, etc. People are going to gamble anyway, so we should keep the $$$ here.

[BigFootsSocks]

...that's not a great argument though. You could insert anything into the statement "people are going to do x thing so we should do it too" but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed, for example. There are better arguments for that sort of legalization, and lawyers/judges are not going to listen to things like that.

If Texans want casinos they're going to need a better case than that.

[Dakota79]

...that's not a great argument though. You could insert anything into the statement "people are going to do x thing so we should do it too" but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed, for example. There are better arguments for that sort of legalization, and lawyers/judges are not going to listen to things like that.

If Texans want casinos they're going to need a better case than that.

You are right, but I'm talking about things that are legal anyway. (Which I guess weed is too, in some states).

How about the first part of my comment - all the Texas $$$ going to LC?

[BigFootsSocks]

That's where it comes down to opinion. I'd rather the state forgo that money if it means it doesn't come from a business that's built on people risking and losing(majority of the time) their money.

[cloud713]

but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed, for example.

Hold up man.. Are you not for legalization?

[BigFootsSocks]

No I definitely am... I just think there are better arguments for it than "everyone else is doing it!"

[Nate99]

I'm ambivalent about gambling myself. The moral angle seems rather muddied with any particular jurisdiction taking approaches from violently enforced prohibition to outright subsidization of potentially addictive life ruining activities, so it's not like there is any particular foundation to stand on there.

 

For Galveston in particular, it seems like a good fit to me. Whatever downside comes with, that "element" is just a couple of blocks away as it sits right now.

 

Atlantic City is a good cautionary case study though. I don't know enough about the specifics, but they certainly have not created something sustinable at the levels that they had built for. Many moving parts there, so people will likely see what they want to see as the source of the failure.

[luciaphile]

There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

 

 

It's less obvious to me than to you, I guess, how the existence of a world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands testifies to the unlikelihood Texas will see a world-wonder-facade casino in the middle of a treeless parking lot so big you can see the curvature of the earth.

The second sentence I can't say I follow.

 

The Atlantic recently had a short negative piece by David Frum on casinos:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/a-good-way-to-wreck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/2/#disqus_thread.

 

It was a little surprising for 2 reasons: one, it didn't follow the Atlantic's tendency of many years' standing to force every story to (shallowly) upend polite opinion in one direction or another, so that it would have been actually more predictable for them to write something like "Why You Should Want a Casino Next Door"; and two, that a neo-con should have written it.

 

There wasn't much to it, but the comments at the top were interesting and thoughtful (I know, the exception that proves the rule).

 

One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

[Montrose1100]

It's less obvious to me than to you, I guess, how the existence of a world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands testifies to the unlikelihood Texas will see a world-wonder-facade casino in the middle of a treeless parking lot so big you can see the curvature of the earth.

The second sentence I can't say I follow.

 

The Atlantic recently had a short negative piece by David Frum on casinos:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/a-good-way-to-wreck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/2/#disqus_thread.

 

It was a little surprising for 2 reasons: one, it didn't follow the Atlantic's tendency of many years' standing to force every story to (shallowly) upend polite opinion in one direction or another, so that it would have been actually more predictable for them to write something like "Why You Should Want a Casino Next Door"; and two, that a neo-con should have written it.

 

There wasn't much to it, but the comments at the top were interesting and thoughtful (I know, the exception that proves the rule).

 

One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

Well the fact that the world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands looks a thousand times better than the casino in Oklahoma (it more so a playful stab at Oklahoma). I'm advocating gambling on Galveston Island, and Galveston Island alone. I'm not hoping for a thousand truck stop casinos, I'm hoping for some big names (even our home grown Tilman Fertitta), to open a couple resort/hotel casinos on Galveston. Maybe even just one to start with. 

[Nate99]

 

One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

 

True, but you couldn't really emblazon the county commissioner's name on the side of the Gulf Nugget like you can on those buses that take them on subsidized trips to where I don't know exactly. Cutting in to publicly funded campaign advertising is rarely popular with incumbents.

[arche_757]

Tilman owns the Golden Nugget in Vegas.

[mollusk]

 I just think there are better arguments for it than "everyone else is doing it!"

 

(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?" 

[BigFootsSocks]

(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?"

Exactly. I didn't want to say it because it's so cliche, but it has some ring of truth to it.

[Nate99]

(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?" 

 

Paraphrasing something I read once...

 

"If they all did so repeatedly and survived reporting that they enjoyed the experience and found it to be worth their while, yeah I'd probably give it a shot."

[Sparrow]

Let's go back to the bargaining table here again.

 

What if they came up with the "natural island" clause and made provisions for the maximum number of casinos in the state by year for the next hundred years. In a sense, you will encourage a bigger and better product by ensuring minimal competition. At the same time, the opposition will be satisfied in the sense that they can be assured casinos won't be running rampant throughout the state. Casino A will know for a certainty that Casino B won't be built across the street for another X years.  At the same time, require minimum standards (ie year of operation start up, casino floor size, hurricane building standards, accompanying number of hotel keys, minimum payout percentages, etc.). Auction off the casino licenses to ensure maximum revenue for the state--if you can only build one in the state every X years I'm sure the bidding wars will be fierce. Use part of the revenue stream to fund the unilateral quashing of all illegal "game rooms"--all parties benefit from this (except the game rooms of course).

[BigFootsSocks]

I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother. It's almost too much work to somehow maintain an ethical stance on this while still legalizing casinos themselves.

[Montrose1100]

I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother. It's almost too much work to somehow maintain an ethical stance on this while still legalizing casinos themselves.

That's why there are bars in dry counties.

[Sparrow]

I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother.

 

I like to think of it like this. Say a city decided to only allow only one residential building in their downtown area. Maybe the city requires a building of such height and such setback and such style, but someone will take advantage of the opportunity and build something that meets those requirements. Moreso, if they are going to build something, they will build up to their maximum economic potential to acquire the most return on their investment. Because no one else can build residential in that area, their economic potential outlook will rise because of reduced competition. A bigger, better building is more economically achievable.

 

If the state does allow casinos, but restricts the quantity, they can create many more "demands" than otherwise, all the while the de jure competition reduction will benefit the casino operator immensely.

 

It's the other side of zoning economics.

[BigFootsSocks]

That's why there are bars in dry counties.

There are just some things we can't fight. Prohibition didn't really work did it? People will find ways to drink (see:Texas Tech), people need casinos to gamble, which obviously excludes online gambling.