Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[TheNiche]

Hey Niche, back up a bit. Perhaps you ought to take a look in to the indoctrination mirror, especially from the "douchey" angle. Not everyone who lives in the Heights is a low-earning Mexican. There are quite a few high-earning Mexicans, as well as low-earning families from all the other categories you seem to be preinclined to reference, living in the Heights. Citing a stereotypical image of several generations of a Mexican family being packed in to a car is, dare I say it, douchey?

Believe it or not, that's actually a very specific story I got from a focus group that targeted Mexican families in your area. Take it for the anecdotal evidence it is, but many people live that life. And stereotypes are all to often rooted in truth.

Can I be just as tired of packing several generations of my anglo family in to a car to drive basically the same distance as the closest Wal-Mart to hit an H-E-B?

No, because you don't do that.

IMHO H-E-B has better quality products, wider selection, better customer service, and much better employee morale (due to Charles Butt actually caring about his employees)than Wal-Mart. H-E-B is a better neighbor than Wal-Mart. They care much more about the local community. Check out what they invest annually back in to the communities, not to mention their support of public schools. Don't believe me? Then you try to help out your local public school's annual Fall Festival, Spring Picnic or whatever. Ask your local H-E-B for a donation of food, water, gift cards, whatever, and you will be pleasantly surprised. Ask WalMart and you're lucky if you get a small, and I do mean small as in buy a couple of candy bars, gift card.

All I am saying is that I would much rather have someone who is vested in the prosperity of the local community, as H-E-B is, than a company like WalMart who is constantly in the press for all the new ways they have come up with to screw the little guys.

HEB doesn't compete with Wal-Mart in very many categories at all beyond grocery, pharmacy, and a limited assortment of household items. It's apples and oranges. HEB also brands itself to suit the local character, as they have using the Mi Tienda or Joe V's store concepts. I certainly won't dispute that they're more philanthropic than Wal-Mart, and if I had to live practically across the street from the one or the other, I'd prefer it be an HEB. Even then, I would appreciate having a Wal-Mart close by. Both stores are a community amenity, particularly when there are still low-earning families living there.

As for the little guys...what little guys in the Heights are going to compete with Wal-Mart? Are you that concerned that revenues at your local CVS might drop 20%? Please note that the Heights cannot be monopolized by Wal-Mart; as much as the "new Heights" wishes it were it's own distinct city separated from Houston and connected only by a streetcar line...it isn't. Get with the times.

[N Judah]

Ah well, if someone can't manage their time effectively, then maybe they should have to drive the extra few miles to find a Wal-Mart.

[HeyHatch]

No, because you don't do that.

Actually I do, so let's not argue facts.

As for the little guys...what little guys in the Heights are going to compete with Wal-Mart? Are you that concerned that revenues at your local CVS might drop 20%? Please note that the Heights cannot be monopolized by Wal-Mart; as much as the "new Heights" wishes it were it's own distinct city separated from Houston and connected only by a streetcar line...it isn't. Get with the times.

Get with the times? Really? My times are very reality based, juggling work and a family with young kids, trying to keep the neighborhood safe from the undue influence and influx of snarky pastafarians.

[TheNiche]

Ah well, if someone can't manage their time effectively, then maybe they should have to drive the extra few miles to find a Wal-Mart.

Getting lots of different sorts of ho-hum generic items in a single trip and at a time of my choosing allows me to optimize productivity and do PT outdoors during scarce daylight hours and optimize my leisure time during the evening. Why should effective time management be deserving of a punitive reaction?

I think you're just jealous of the ease with which I reject the douchey mass-marketed sense of shame that I'm supposed to feel over shopping at Wal-Mart.

[Jeebus]

What mom & pops? This is Houston - the 4th largest city in the nation and the 6th largest metro (soon to be 5th) area in the nation. This is one of the most interior neighborhoods of the city as well.

So what exactly is going to be preserved that as mentioned above hasn't already been closed down by Target, CVS, Walgreens, or Kroger if a Walmart isn't built there?

[N Judah]

Getting lots of different sorts of ho-hum generic items in a single trip and at a time of my choosing allows me to optimize productivity and do PT outdoors during scarce daylight hours and optimize my leisure time during the evening. Why should effective time management be deserving of a punitive reaction?

Punitive? We're building a Wal-Mart, not tearing one down. To put it another way: we certainly shouldn't bring traffic 24/7 into somebody else's neighborhood just to indulge your sense of entitlement, should we?

I think you're just jealous of the ease with which I reject the douchey mass-marketed sense of shame that I'm supposed to feel over shopping at Wal-Mart.

LoL. When I saw you say something similar above, I thought "project much?" but didn't say anything because I didn't want to incur a tantrum

Edited June 24, 2010 by N Judah

[TheNiche]

Punitive? We're building a Wal-Mart, not tearing one down. To put it another way: we certainly shouldn't bring traffic 24/7 into somebody else's neighborhood just to indulge your sense of entitlement, should we?

A Wal-Mart should be brought into the community when people will shop there. And they will! I will. And I'll shop at Wal-Mart with much greater frequency when it isn't a 30-minute round trip.

What would you rather see there, an HEB with strip centers? Sooner or later, that land will be developed by something that will generate traffic...and that's too much land for merely another apartment project.

LoL. When I saw you say something similar above, I thought "project much?" but didn't say anything because I didn't want to incur a tantrum

I drank Lone Star before it was popular. And when it was adopted for the sake of irony and the price increased by $0.50 per six pack to reflect something more tasty than horse piss, I switched to 40oz King Cobras. And I openly admit it. You can call me lots of things that are derogatory (i.e. unsophisticated, redneck, cheapskate, asshole, et al.); I'm not thinking that "pretentious" or "douche" would be among them.

Edited June 24, 2010 by TheNiche

[heights_yankee]

A Wal-Mart should be brought into the community when people will shop there. And they will! I will. And I'll shop at Wal-Mart with much greater frequency when it isn't a 30-minute round trip.

What would you rather see there, an HEB with strip centers? Sooner or later, that land will be developed by something that will generate traffic...and that's too much land for merely another apartment project.

I drank Lone Star before it was popular. And when it was adopted for the sake of irony and the price increased by $0.50 per six pack to reflect something more tasty than horse piss, I switched to 40oz King Cobras. And I openly admit it. You can call me lots of things that are derogatory (i.e. unsophisticated, redneck, cheapskate, asshole, et al.); I'm not thinking that "pretentious" or "douche" would be among them.

The fact is that you call any opinions outside of your own "pretentious" or "douchey" or "brainwashed" or "classist." People are only entitled to their own opinions if those opinions mirror yours. God forbid anyone be born white and worked their tail off against great odds to educate themselves. Me and my stupid, educated husband. I never should have defied all the statistics of being the child of a single mother on welfare. If we don't like WalMart, we're apparently anti-working class. I saw Walmart decimate the economy of my very poor hometown and ruin what working class there was left. For years after, it was just abject poverty. As a company, they actually keep the people who work for them below the poverty line. Even their "American made" items are actually made made in sweatshops in Saipan, a U.S. territory not subject to labor laws. I don't like them and it's not because I am afriad of brown or black or poor people.

I mean, what do you want from people? To acknowledge that you are the be all, end all? You honestly think you are the authority on what everyone is thinking and feeling about every issue? That you know people's motivations better than they themselves? Get over yourself.

[lockmat]

For a while there, Northline Commons was supposed to be getting a WalMart. Wonder if thats still the case. If so, this spot wouldn't make any sense at all.

A guy I work with said his wife already applied to work there.

[TheNiche]

The fact is that you call any opinions outside of your own "pretentious" or "douchey" or "brainwashed" or "classist." People are only entitled to their own opinions if those opinions mirror yours. God forbid anyone be born white and worked their tail off against great odds to educate themselves. Me and my stupid, educated husband. I never should have defied all the statistics of being the child of a single mother on welfare. If we don't like WalMart, we're apparently anti-working class.

As an over-educated white male that held a full-time job and developed a career during his college years which was rendered a liability by the financial crisis...and that responded by investing my life's savings in an ill-conceived partnership that has ultimately voided those savings...and having found myself being the lowest earner of my two college student roommates... with no employment prospects other than the Army...I find that I'm positioned well below the working class Mexican households that I've been Censusing in terms of buying power (and earning power).

Consider yourself lucky, as I would if I had easier access to a Wal-Mart.

I saw Walmart decimate the economy of my very poor hometown and ruin what working class there was left. For years after, it was just abject poverty. As a company, they actually keep the people who work for them below the poverty line. Even their "American made" items are actually made made in sweatshops in Saipan, a U.S. territory not subject to labor laws. I don't like them and it's not because I am afriad of brown or black or poor people.

As for your hometown...clearly it wasn't a big city. Houston is not a small town. Attempting to compare the two is a fallacy of composition. Since you have embraced the name "Yankee", I'm gathering that you're probably from the northeast or the rust belt. And yeah, with or without Wal-Mart, those places are withering. High taxes and a strict regulatory environment there are how you make a living here.

I mean, what do you want from people? To acknowledge that you are the be all, end all? You honestly think you are the authority on what everyone is thinking and feeling about every issue? That you know people's motivations better than they themselves? Get over yourself.

I have an academic background in economics and professional backgrounds in market research, economic development, and commercial real estate development. Who better to provide input on the matter? Really.

[heights_yankee]

As an over-educated white male that held a full-time job and developed a career during his college years which was rendered a liability by the financial crisis...and that responded by investing my life's savings in an ill-conceived partnership that has ultimately voided those savings...and having found myself being the lowest earner of my two college student roommates... with no employment prospects other than the Army...I find that I'm positioned well below the working class Mexican households that I've been Censusing in terms of buying power (and earning power).

Consider yourself lucky, as I would if I had easier access to a Wal-Mart.

Oh, so it's a chip on your shoulder that makes you act like this. Makes more sense now.

As for your hometown...clearly it wasn't a big city. Houston is not a small town. Attempting to compare the two is a fallacy of composition. Since you have embraced the name "Yankee", I'm gathering that you're probably from the northeast or the rust belt. And yeah, with or without Wal-Mart, those places are withering. High taxes and a strict regulatory environment there are how you make a living here.

Whether or not it was inevitable doesn't invalidate my feelings about it.

And I don't believe it was inevitable as the only other Walmart in Western Ma is in Pittesfield, population roughly 100,000, and many of the other clusters of small towns around there which have kept Walmart out continue to thrive. Even now that they have opened the largest contemporary art museum in the country in an old factory, the town can't recover and many locals will point to Walmarts destruction of the local economy as part of it.

And, again, I also dislike Walmart as a company due to their employment policies which keep thousands of people on their "payroll" below the poverty line. They use sweatshop labor. They discriminate against women in their power structure. They even dictate the size of home their corp staff can purchase (i.e. regardless of the size of his family, an inhouse lawyer for Walmart was told that he could not buy anything larger than a 3/2- in Arkansas, mind you- because they didn't want it too look like they pay their lawyers too much). I don't like them as a company and I don't have to support or be happy about them moving so close to me (maybe, this is all just rumor at this point no matter how much HeyHatch hears it's a done deal). And I don't have to change my mind just because you are excited about the prospect of having cheap, Chinese made products made so much more accessible to you...

I have an academic background in economics and professional backgrounds in market research, economic development, and commercial real estate development. Who better to provide input on the matter? Really.

See, you miss the point. This is, for many people, an emotional issue. We like or dislike Walmart for our own personal reasons, e.g. corp policies, sweatshop labor, discrimination, aesthetics, parking lot safety, etc. So no one really cares that you have anointed yourself the supreme expert on what we should all want. Your education and hodge podge of professional backgrounds isn't going to make HeyHatch feel safe in a Walmart parking lot at night and it's not going to make me go back and say "yeah, I'm sure glad there's a Walmart scarring the face of my quaint New England hometown." Frankly, we don't have to want it and, like you said, this is Houston. It's not like Walmart is the only option and we'd be silly for turning it away. If not Walmart, there are a lot of other ways that land could be developed that would benefit the area as much, if not more, than a Walmart. I'm sure you're aware that there are more options but you pull so hard for this one because it benefits you. Fine. That is your emotional reaction as well, but don't play it off as if everyone else is stupid for having a differing opinion.

I said earlier in the conversation that I don't believe Walmart will close the locally owned businesses in the Heights and surrounding neighborhoods. C&D survives with Home Depot and Lowe's a 5 minute drive away. People who are buying baby gifts at Tulips & Tutus aren't going to switch to Walmart. People who want handcrafted items aren't going to stop going to The Artful COrner and 18 Hands Gallery b/c Wallyworld moved below I10.

And here is a great tip for you: there are also 2 Fiestas, the nice one on Studewood and the giant Fiesta on Shepherd, where you can get all the inexpensive food you want, probably cheaper than Walmart will be anyway.

Edited June 24, 2010 by heights_yankee

[lwood]

Hey Niche, back up a bit. Perhaps you ought to take a look in to the indoctrination mirror, especially from the "douchey" angle. Not everyone who lives in the Heights is a low-earning Mexican. There are quite a few high-earning Mexicans, as well as low-earning families from all the other categories you seem to be preinclined to reference, living in the Heights. Citing a stereotypical image of several generations of a Mexican family being packed in to a car is, dare I say it, douchey? Can I be just as tired of packing several generations of my anglo family in to a car to drive basically the same distance as the closest Wal-Mart to hit an H-E-B?

IMHO H-E-B has better quality products, wider selection, better customer service, and much better employee morale (due to Charles Butt actually caring about his employees)than Wal-Mart. H-E-B is a better neighbor than Wal-Mart. They care much more about the local community. Check out what they invest annually back in to the communities, not to mention their support of public schools. Don't believe me? Then you try to help out your local public school's annual Fall Festival, Spring Picnic or whatever. Ask your local H-E-B for a donation of food, water, gift cards, whatever, and you will be pleasantly surprised. Ask WalMart and you're lucky if you get a small, and I do mean small as in buy a couple of candy bars, gift card.

All I am saying is that I would much rather have someone who is vested in the prosperity of the local community, as H-E-B is, than a company like WalMart who is constantly in the press for all the new ways they have come up with to screw the little guys.

Thank you. Well said.

[Marksmu]

Oh, so it's a chip on your shoulder that makes you act like this. Makes more sense now.

Whether or not it was inevitable doesn't invalidate my feelings about it.

And I don't believe it was inevitable as the only other Walmart in Western Ma is in Pittesfield, population roughly 100,000, and many of the other clusters of small towns around there which have kept Walmart out continue to thrive. Even now that they have opened the largest contemporary art museum in the country in an old factory, the town can't recover and many locals will point to Walmarts destruction of the local economy as part of it.

And, again, I also dislike Walmart as a company due to their employment policies which keep thousands of people on their "payroll" below the poverty line. They use sweatshop labor. They discriminate against women in their power structure. They even dictate the size of home their corp staff can purchase (i.e. regardless of the size of his family, an inhouse lawyer for Walmart was told that he could not buy anything larger than a 3/2- in Arkansas, mind you- because they didn't want it too look like they pay their lawyers too much). I don't like them as a company and I don't have to support or be happy about them moving so close to me (maybe, this is all just rumor at this point no matter how much HeyHatch hears it's a done deal). And I don't have to change my mind just because you are excited about the prospect of having cheap, Chinese made products made so much more accessible to you...

See, you miss the point. This is, for many people, an emotional issue. We like or dislike Walmart for our own personal reasons, e.g. corp policies, sweatshop labor, discrimination, aesthetics, parking lot safety, etc. So no one really cares that you have anointed yourself the supreme expert on what we should all want. Your education and hodge podge of professional backgrounds isn't going to make HeyHatch feel safe in a Walmart parking lot at night and it's not going to make me go back and say "yeah, I'm sure glad there's a Walmart scarring the face of my quaint New England hometown." Frankly, we don't have to want it and, like you said, this is Houston. It's not like Walmart is the only option and we'd be silly for turning it away. If not Walmart, there are a lot of other ways that land could be developed that would benefit the area as much, if not more, than a Walmart. I'm sure you're aware that there are more options but you pull so hard for this one because it benefits you. Fine. That is your emotional reaction as well, but don't play it off as if everyone else is stupid for having a differing opinion.

I said earlier in the conversation that I don't believe Walmart will close the locally owned businesses in the Heights and surrounding neighborhoods. C&D survives with Home Depot and Lowe's a 5 minute drive away. People who are buying baby gifts at Tulips & Tutus aren't going to switch to Walmart. People who want handcrafted items aren't going to stop going to The Artful COrner and 18 Hands Gallery b/c Wallyworld moved below I10.

And here is a great tip for you: there are also 2 Fiestas, the nice one on Studewood and the giant Fiesta on Shepherd, where you can get all the inexpensive food you want, probably cheaper than Walmart will be anyway.

I dont disagree with most of what you have said here, except that Walmart will take market share from the small mom and pop stores, even from the people who despise the store. There are too many instances, where you need something cheap, fast, and now. Mom & Pop stores often are not open when you need those things....WalMart fills that void, even for people who despise it.

I despise Walmart - I hate going in them...but if you need a fishing license at 3am, and a few snacks, and some gas, and you want to do that fast and in all in one stop....well your SOL anywhere but Walmart.

Walmart is about cheap convenience....nothing more. They treat their employees the way they do, because if they did not, their products would cost more. I am a huge fan of shopping local, and avoiding large chain stores that dont care or support our community, but there are instances when you have to break your own rules because you actually need something they have.

That said, while I have succesfully avoided Walmart for at least the past 3 years, I support their right to build whatever they want wherever they want to. If a community does not like a walmart, then by god dont shop there. Opinionated people should not have any say whatsoever about what gets built....money talks. If you dont like it, dont shop there, or buy the area yourself....they will go out of business if nobody shops there.

[goavs4]

If it is a Wal-Mart it will just be one more business in the Washington Corridor area I won't shop at since I never go to Wal-Mart.

[heights_yankee]

I dont disagree with most of what you have said here, except that Walmart will take market share from the small mom and pop stores, even from the people who despise the store. There are too many instances, where you need something cheap, fast, and now. Mom & Pop stores often are not open when you need those things....WalMart fills that void, even for people who despise it.

I despise Walmart - I hate going in them...but if you need a fishing license at 3am, and a few snacks, and some gas, and you want to do that fast and in all in one stop....well your SOL anywhere but Walmart.

Walmart is about cheap convenience....nothing more. They treat their employees the way they do, because if they did not, their products would cost more. I am a huge fan of shopping local, and avoiding large chain stores that dont care or support our community, but there are instances when you have to break your own rules because you actually need something they have.

I guess my argument is more that there is nothing you can get at 99% of the stores in the Heights that you otherwise need in a cheap, fast and instant manner. If you look at the retailers in the Heights, they are all specialty retailers, not general "needs" retailers.

As far as a "they can build it and then no one shop there and let it close" mentality, well a) we know a Walmart would probably stay open anywhere inside the loop but if it did fail then you are left with a big, ugly hulking shell of a big box store visible from space. It will take years to find someone willing to occupy or subdivide or tear down. This is a problem cities are seeing all across the country (mostly with empty, old Kmarts). In the time it takes to redevelop an old big box store, the vacant space can also have a hugely detrimental effect on a neighborhood. IMO, we are already at risk of Rice Military becoming a ghetto if development isn't done in a wise and careful manner. All business owners around that area should be invested in what goes up around them and for the long term health of the area, they should not want it to be a Walmart.

[CleaningLadyinCleveland]

As an over-educated white male that held a full-time job and developed a career during his college years which was rendered a liability by the financial crisis...and that responded by investing my life's savings in an ill-conceived partnership that has ultimately voided those savings...and having found myself being the lowest earner of my two college student roommates... with no employment prospects other than the Army...I find that I'm positioned well below the working class Mexican households that I've been Censusing in terms of buying power (and earning power).

Consider yourself lucky, as I would if I had easier access to a Wal-Mart.

As for your hometown...clearly it wasn't a big city. Houston is not a small town. Attempting to compare the two is a fallacy of composition. Since you have embraced the name "Yankee", I'm gathering that you're probably from the northeast or the rust belt. And yeah, with or without Wal-Mart, those places are withering. High taxes and a strict regulatory environment there are how you make a living here.

I have an academic background in economics and professional backgrounds in market research, economic development, and commercial real estate development. Who better to provide input on the matter? Really.

Really.... Since you've already disclosed how unsuccessful you are then I would interpret that your background as mentioned above was not very successful/knowledgeable and may be a low level employee(?), therefore it seems that you may not the better (or only) person to give input in the matter You also previously mentioned a focus group study...how many people were in the study - 12 to about 25...? Usually modeling research to project up to a population should be over 1,000 people at least. Were they studying first generation Mexican-Americans (not Hispanics since you mentioned Mexican Families) , 2nd or 3rd generation or new arrivals...? There are vast differences between the groups.

The Heights has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and lots of companies (including commercial real estate) are just using the 2000 census with annual adjustments made on average/projected population growth. What can drastically change demographics in a short time in a zip code (or block group) are new apartment complexes due to their high number of households in a limited space. That I am aware of - there have not been many new apartment complexes built - except for the two on I-10 (Target & near Heights blvd) and the one on Yale (at 22nd) and it doesn't look to me that they are marketing and housing "Mexican families" (as you put it). If they are building a store at Northline Commons, not too far from there that will service Walmart's typical (repeat) customer (demographics), I would be very surprised if WalMart put a store in the Heights on Yale at I-10.

If you look at Walmart's actual statistics about their parking lot crime - then naturally the Heights store (if there is to be one) will probably have the same stats, especially if it is right off of I-10. Does anyone know what the stats are for Target parking lot crime as a whole and the Target off Sawyer parking lot crime as compared to their average? The percentage up or down of the Sawyer store compared to their average crime rate would be good to estimate the parking lot crime of the proposed Walmart on I-10 at Yale.

Edited June 24, 2010 by CleaningLadyinCleveland

[heights_yankee]

The Heights has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and lots of companies (including commercial real estate) are just using the 2000 census with annual adjustments made on average/projected population growth. What can drastically change demographics in a short time in a zip code (or block group) are new apartment complexes due to their high number of households in a limited space. That I am aware of - there have not been many new apartment complexes built - except for the two on I-10 (Target & near Heights blvd) and the one on Yale (at 22nd) and it doesn't look to me that they are marketing and housing "Mexican families" (as you put it). If they are building a store at Northline Commons, not too far from there that will service Walmart's typical (repeat) customer (demographics), I would be very surprised if WalMart put a store in the Heights on Yale at I-10.

We were just talking about this at dinner last night.

The widespread and sustained rumor is that Target used these older stats in development of the Sawyer Heights store and now greatly regret it. They believed that the area would only sustain a small store and now the SH store is one of the highest grossing in metro Houston. Since they dropped the ball and didn't make it a Super Target (like a lot of the people around here had hoped), they are now sticking random produce on aisle end caps and adding food/wine wherever possible to make up for the bad stats they were forced to use...

Which brings up another point- if Walmart has a target demographic of people under a certain income level, but this area has transitioned so much that it's now mostly the educated, upper middle class that The Niche hates so much (because apparently he had a taste of the lifestyle and then lost it, so the rest of us are to blame and we should all be ashamed of our own successes) why should the area be forced to accept a store that caters to the smaller percentage of the area population?

[AtticaFlinch]

if Walmart has a target demographic of people under a certain income level, but this area has transitioned so much that it's now mostly the educated, upper middle class ... why should the area be forced to accept a store that caters to the smaller percentage of the area population?

Because you'll use it too. People always do. And not just you either. As the only inner loop Walmart location, people of all sorts of income brackets will drive in or ride a bus to use it. The Heights is centrally located and not a dangerous neighborhood. It's a pretty obvious choice for any major retailer to set up shop. Plus, it has the added benefit of having the Target in close proximity increasing consumer choice and competition.

And don't get me wrong. I hate Walmart. I can't stand the place. I always feel like I need a shower after I leave one. It's obvious the employees hate their jobs. It's obvious the company promotes unethical business practices to keep their prices low. I hate that in their first foray into Mexico, they built a store practically atop the archaeologically priceless site of Teotihuacan. I lived in Austin when they built on the environmentally sensitive Barton Springs watershed despite thousands of protests from residents. I hate that all new Walmarts are built with a McDonald's in them as there's one company I like less than Walmart, and it's McDonald's. Yet, I can't not shop at Walmart from time to time. When you're on a budget or pressed for time, it's the best shopping option, even if it leaves you feeling unclean.

[little frau]

The Heights is upper middle class??

Does that include all the elderly property owners who are likely living on retirement in the same little homes they've lived in for over 40 years? Those are some of the residents who will probably shop at Walmart.

[htownproud]

it will certainly draw folks from well beyond the heights, which is the problem. i suspect it will draw on residents from the 5th ward, 3rd ward, and others from east of 45. they will all be getting off I-10 at heights/yale.

i rarely go north of allen parkway, so not really my fight to pick, but if i lived in washington heights or even the heights proper, then i would be concerned.

[JLWM8609]

it will certainly draw folks from well beyond the heights, which is the problem. i suspect it will draw on residents from the 5th ward, 3rd ward, and others from east of 45. they will all be getting off I-10 at heights/yale.

Is this a problem because of increased automobile traffic? Or because the store may attract outsiders to the Heights?

Edited June 24, 2010 by JLWM8609

[Yankee_in_TX]

On the weekends we could gather and take photos for peopleofwalmart.com?

[TheNiche]

Oh, so it's a chip on your shoulder that makes you act like this. Makes more sense now.

Really.... Since you've already disclosed how unsuccessful you are then I would interpret that your background as mentioned above was not very successful/knowledgeable and may be a low level employee(?), therefore it seems that you may not the better (or only) person to give input in the matter

First, I want to address these two personal attacks:

The decimation of my industry by a financial crisis was completely unforeseeable when I began my career about eight years ago. Indeed I'm not happy about it, but (HeightsYankee) you'll note that I've been a genuine cheapskate--and a Wal-Mart shopper--since even before that. I want a Wal-Mart that's close to me, and the chip on your shoulder over what you've seen happen to your small hometown is prompting you to rail against what I (and many other unemployed and underemployed people in our community) need.

As for CleaningLady, I've yielded hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue by dolling out untold thousands of pages of thoughtful and researched opinion on these kinds of issues. Certainly there are other people that can do the job; I had coworkers and their very existence is evidence of the fact. Still, I think myself more qualified than most to add constructively to the conversation...particularly when so much of the backlash appears to be founded in emotion rather than reason.

Let's move on, shall we?

And I don't believe it was inevitable as the only other Walmart in Western Ma is in Pittesfield, population roughly 100,000, and many of the other clusters of small towns around there which have kept Walmart out continue to thrive. Even now that they have opened the largest contemporary art museum in the country in an old factory, the town can't recover and many locals will point to Walmarts destruction of the local economy as part of it.

And, again, I also dislike Walmart as a company due to their employment policies which keep thousands of people on their "payroll" below the poverty line. They use sweatshop labor. They discriminate against women in their power structure. They even dictate the size of home their corp staff can purchase (i.e. regardless of the size of his family, an inhouse lawyer for Walmart was told that he could not buy anything larger than a 3/2- in Arkansas, mind you- because they didn't want it too look like they pay their lawyers too much). I don't like them as a company and I don't have to support or be happy about them moving so close to me (maybe, this is all just rumor at this point no matter how much HeyHatch hears it's a done deal). And I don't have to change my mind just because you are excited about the prospect of having cheap, Chinese made products made so much more accessible to you...

See, you miss the point. This is, for many people, an emotional issue. We like or dislike Walmart for our own personal reasons, e.g. corp policies, sweatshop labor, discrimination, aesthetics, parking lot safety, etc. So no one really cares that you have anointed yourself the supreme expert on what we should all want. Your education and hodge podge of professional backgrounds isn't going to make HeyHatch feel safe in a Walmart parking lot at night and it's not going to make me go back and say "yeah, I'm sure glad there's a Walmart scarring the face of my quaint New England hometown." Frankly, we don't have to want it and, like you said, this is Houston. It's not like Walmart is the only option and we'd be silly for turning it away. If not Walmart, there are a lot of other ways that land could be developed that would benefit the area as much, if not more, than a Walmart. I'm sure you're aware that there are more options but you pull so hard for this one because it benefits you. Fine. That is your emotional reaction as well, but don't play it off as if everyone else is stupid for having a differing opinion.

I said earlier in the conversation that I don't believe Walmart will close the locally owned businesses in the Heights and surrounding neighborhoods. C&D survives with Home Depot and Lowe's a 5 minute drive away. People who are buying baby gifts at Tulips & Tutus aren't going to switch to Walmart. People who want handcrafted items aren't going to stop going to The Artful COrner and 18 Hands Gallery b/c Wallyworld moved below I10.

And here is a great tip for you: there are also 2 Fiestas, the nice one on Studewood and the giant Fiesta on Shepherd, where you can get all the inexpensive food you want, probably cheaper than Walmart will be anyway.

Houston, TX is not Westerfield, MA. There are about 60 times the number of people in our region, better higher-paying jobs, productive industry, and modern infrastructure. Your apparent surprise that a cultural institution could not turn around the town's economy is also kind of telling. The problem with towns such as that one is that the core employers cannot sustain their business. And to be clear, a mom & pop dry goods store is not a core employer; a museum is not a core employer; nor is a Wal-Mart; they are all non-core employers enabled by the disposable income injected into the workforce by industry (and to some extent from transfer payments).

Compare cities and towns in the northeast and the rust belt to Texas; with only three exceptions (Beaumont, Wichita Falls, and Sherman-Denison), all of our MSAs are growing. They all also have one or more Wal-Marts, and I'd suspect in higher concentration per capita than they exist in the northeast. Energy is only part of the story; why is Waco growing...or Amarillo? The answer is that Texas is a business-friendly state. We can out-compete Massachusetts and even China in many categories. ...and whether in spite of our Wal-Marts or more likely regardless of them, people move here from stagnant places like Pittsfield, MA for self-betterment in one form or another.

And, again, I also dislike Walmart as a company due to their employment policies which keep thousands of people on their "payroll" below the poverty line. They use sweatshop labor.

My monthly living expenses are only slightly more than half of what a full-time Wal-Mart employee on minimum wage earns. If that level of income is poverty, then whatever definition of poverty you're using was cooked up by one greedy bastard.

Also, FYI, Wal-Mart is air conditioned.

They discriminate against women in their power structure. They even dictate the size of home their corp staff can purchase (i.e. regardless of the size of his family, an inhouse lawyer for Walmart was told that he could not buy anything larger than a 3/2- in Arkansas, mind you- because they didn't want it too look like they pay their lawyers too much). I don't like them as a company and I don't have to support or be happy about them moving so close to me (maybe, this is all just rumor at this point no matter how much HeyHatch hears it's a done deal). And I don't have to change my mind just because you are excited about the prospect of having cheap, Chinese made products made so much more accessible to you...

Ummm...yeah, intentional or unintentional discrimination against women happens all the time. Big corporations try to keep a low-profile on high-earning employees all the time (and for good reason, as evidenced by the PR nightmares created by BP's and AIG's errors). And as for importing, Wal-Mart is only a huge participant in the trend, but other companies do it all the time. (Sadly, most Houstonians hear profoundly more propaganda over low-skill jobs outsourced indirectly by Wal-Mart than we do about the thousands of high-skill accounting and finance jobs that are outsourced by Shell Oil and the other majors.)

You seem to be jumping on the "I hate Wal-Mart" bandwagon because it's a symbol of all the other things that happen in a market economy with free trade. You're a sentimentalist. Not me. I know that Target, CVS, Walgreens, Family Dollar, Dollar General, etc., are no better. And in fact quite the opposite, I think that Wal-Mart is the best. I'm a consumer. I want the best deal. And aside from the aberrant instance that Wal-Mart is a monopsony in some tiny little ramshackle town...the needs of the many--the consumers--outweigh the needs of the few--those economically displaced by Wal-Mart.

And hey, after all...the Chinese are humans too. They move to big cities to get jobs at factories because it's a better life for them, not unlike our American ancestors that once flocked to a once-industrious Pittsfield, MA. So more power to them!

And here is a great tip for you: there are also 2 Fiestas, the nice one on Studewood and the giant Fiesta on Shepherd, where you can get all the inexpensive food you want, probably cheaper than Walmart will be anyway.

I'm not looking forward to a Wal-Mart so that I can drive an eight-mile round trip for mere groceries; I walk to Battle Kroger, which is usually cheaper than the Fiesta on Wayside to begin with.

As far as a "they can build it and then no one shop there and let it close" mentality, well a) we know a Walmart would probably stay open anywhere inside the loop but if it did fail then you are left with a big, ugly hulking shell of a big box store visible from space. It will take years to find someone willing to occupy or subdivide or tear down. This is a problem cities are seeing all across the country (mostly with empty, old Kmarts). In the time it takes to redevelop an old big box store, the vacant space can also have a hugely detrimental effect on a neighborhood. IMO, we are already at risk of Rice Military becoming a ghetto if development isn't done in a wise and careful manner. All business owners around that area should be invested in what goes up around them and for the long term health of the area, they should not want it to be a Walmart.

Remember when Albertson's closed up shop en masse around 2003? And then, when K-Mart followed suit a few years later? Then Garden Ridge? Retail investors thought that the glut of big box was going to wipe them out. The boxes got repurposed in short order, even in marginal neighborhoods.

This is Houston. We aren't a small town, nor is our economy stagnant.

You also previously mentioned a focus group study...how many people were in the study - 12 to about 25...? Usually modeling research to project up to a population should be over 1,000 people at least. Were they studying first generation Mexican-Americans (not Hispanics since you mentioned Mexican Families) , 2nd or 3rd generation or new arrivals...? There are vast differences between the groups.

Out of respect for my client, I will not reveal details that might be identifying. The disappointment over it being a Target rather than a Wal-Mart was widespread throughout the group. I hear (and validate) what you're saying; I know that this merely qualifies as anecdotal evidence, but it needs to stay that way.

The Heights has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and lots of companies (including commercial real estate) are just using the 2000 census with annual adjustments made on average/projected population growth. What can drastically change demographics in a short time in a zip code (or block group) are new apartment complexes due to their high number of households in a limited space. That I am aware of - there have not been many new apartment complexes built - except for the two on I-10 (Target & near Heights blvd) and the one on Yale (at 22nd) and it doesn't look to me that they are marketing and housing "Mexican families" (as you put it). If they are building a store at Northline Commons, not too far from there that will service Walmart's typical (repeat) customer (demographics), I would be very surprised if WalMart put a store in the Heights on Yale at I-10.

I'm not especially happy with many of the commercially-available demographic projections, either. I think that the Heights and the East Downtown area have gotten an especially raw deal, particularly where household income and ethnicity are estimated, and that many retailers would be much more interested if there were more realistic estimates. Having said that, you have to recognize that this store would not merely serve the Heights. The whole inner loop is poorly served by Wal-Mart; and their Post Oak store is obsolete.

In retail real estate there is are broad concepts for describing a shopping center and its tenants in order to characterize how it interacts with a customer base. For instance, a shopping center might have a "Neighborhood", "Community", or "Regional" draw, or be "Anchored", "Grocery Anchored", or "Non-Anchored". Tenants might fall on a spectrum between "Destination" and "Convenience".

If HEB were to take the site, there would also be other stores and probably pad sites. It would be a shopping center with tenants that aren't too uncommon, and it'd lack freeway visibility so that most customers would live or work nearby. It would serve the Neighborhood. And because it'd be Grocery Anchored with regular traffic from the same customers, the grocer would be the Destination, but most of the other retailers would rely on the Convenience factor relative to the anchor/destination to try and capture or induce business. Contrast this with a freestanding Wal-Mart Supercenter. It has an unusually large Community draw, is a Destination in its own rite, and functions as pretty much an entire shopping center (and then some) rolled into one store. This is why it's apples and oranges. The two possibilities draw from very different market areas.

Yes, that means that there are going to be different kinds of people going there. It serves a larger area and a different kind of need. But it doesn't mean that the need isn't there. Firstly, Wal-Mart does well in affluent communities and poor communities alike. Secondly, if the core of this argument is NIMBY, well then what's your proposed alternative? Go put it in a less politically-sensitive neighborhood? Or deny it altogether to people who'd want it? And some on here seem to wonder at my disdain for uppity white people...

[J008]

Duplicate post please delete

Edited June 24, 2010 by J008

[J008]

Happened to see this article on Khou.com with the new I-10 access it seems a Heights Wal-Mart would fit in nicely.

http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Suspects-charged-in-connection-with-brazen-midday-Walmart-holdup-97094579.html

[RedScare]

They even dictate the size of home their corp staff can purchase (i.e. regardless of the size of his family, an inhouse lawyer for Walmart was told that he could not buy anything larger than a 3/2- in Arkansas, mind you- because they didn't want it too look like they pay their lawyers too much).

I agree, it is abhorable that your employer would dictate the size of your home. Even worse would be the city government dictating what I can do with my home. Or my neighbors. Or changing the rules on what I can do with my home after the fact.

[RedScare]

You know, I found some interesting things while perusing the Walmart website. First, it appears that there are only 48 Walmarts in the entire state of Massachusetts, so I would suggest that their ability to decimate the 'mom and pop' economy is a bit overstated. However, more interesting was the fact that the average hourly wage of their 12,914 Massachusetts associates is $12.72. That's $26,500 per year, which is ABOVE the poverty level of the average family of four. Considering the skill and education level of a retail employee, 26 thou a year ain't bad wages.

Another interesting tidbit is the fact that Walmart bought $2.23 Billion in products from Massachusetts based suppliers last year, supporting 48,000 Massachusetts supplier jobs. Not Chinese jobs...Massachusetts jobs. Now, I have no idea what the mom and pops support (no one ever does), but Walmart is supporting over 60,000 Massachusetts jobs.

http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/statebystate/State.aspx?st=MA

Edited June 25, 2010 by RedScare

[poyea]

All of this conversation is nice and all....I'm still wondering if anyone has any concrete evidence that it is indeed a WalMart going into this spot? Usually, this HAIF crew comes through with some pretty good inside information.

[20thStDad]

All of this conversation is nice and all....I'm still wondering if anyone has any concrete evidence that it is indeed a WalMart going into this spot? Usually, this HAIF crew comes through with some pretty good inside information.

Why worry about facts when we can carry on bitching about walmart in TWO threads!!

Sam's choice root beer from the machine for a quarter? Find me some change!!

[crunchtastic]

I'm late to the game and still trying to figure what Heights-invasion is happening. This is proposed for south of the I-10? It's practically at the railroad tracks! The cries for more fancy cheese, more checkout lanes and more parking just resulted in the planet's largest Kroger on Shepherd, but a Wal-Mart on the other side of the highway is a problem? There is apparently no pleasing the Heights.

I hate shopping at Wal-mart (and virtually all large stores) because it attracts so many people with their armies of horrible little children. But, I love their RV parking policy. I'm stoked, because when I cash out and get rid of all my stuff to live in a used motor home, thanks to the Wal-Mart parking lot, I can stay inside the loop.