TX GOV 2010

[TheNiche]

Perry is a hypocrite. He deplores the federal goverment and the stimuls but accepts it to blance the budget. Right now Texas has some of the worst public schooling systems in the nation, but he denies federal money that our schools need. Maybe he will change his tune again for the betterment our schools.

There's no denying that Rick Perry sucks. However...

Texas schools generate some of the best bang-for-the-buck out of any state. That's impressive, considering that we have the longest border and the largest border population...which is to say, our problems are more cultural than fiscal. And some of our urban school districts, including HISD, are actually quite effective as compared to peer districts in other states.

[ricco67]

There's no denying that Rick Perry sucks. However...

Texas schools generate some of the best bang-for-the-buck out of any state. That's impressive, considering that we have the longest border and the largest border population...which is to say, our problems are more cultural than fiscal. And some of our urban school districts, including HISD, are actually quite effective as compared to peer districts in other states.

I don't see how that is possible. People are constantly whining about the school districts in Texas, particularly those in HISD. I do have to agree with your statement when it comes from certain states like Louisiana and Mississippi, but those are pretty low bars to step over.

[crunchtastic]

In the broadest of measures, education in this state is an unmitigated failure. Texas ranks 43 out of 50 in state graduation

rates. Lack of a high school diploma virtually guarantees a poverty-level existence.

And it's gotten worse under Perry: since 2001, that rate dropped from 65% to 61%.

[jgriff]

<br />Perry is a hypocrite. He deplores the federal goverment and the stimuls but accepts it to blance the budget.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a fan of him either but would you rather him let the Feds keep the all money that they have taken from us or have them give back at least a portion of it after they skim off the top?

[ricco67]

<br /><br /><br />

I'm not a fan of him either but would you rather him let the Feds keep the all money that they have taken from us or have them give back at least a portion of it after they skim off the top?

I couldn't stand Perry from the beginning. All this insane talk about him not taking funds the stimulus funds for the sake of being wrong fueled my anger when I realized later on that some other state probably got the same exact funds, in effect not saving us (Texans who pay taxes) a dime.

[AtticaFlinch]

I couldn't stand Perry from the beginning. All this insane talk about him not taking funds the stimulus funds for the sake of being wrong fueled my anger when I realized later on that some other state probably got the same exact funds, in effect not saving us (Texans who pay taxes) a dime.

Perry's a grandstanding prick. It amazes me he still has any support in this state. His schtick hasn't changed in ten years, and it's not even as if he does a good job of hiding his true intentions. His sole reason to be is getting reelected; that's it and nothing more. He panders to his base with empty moralistic platitudes and then to his corporate sponsors with sweetheart deals. He has no moral compass, and his soul is for sale to the highest bidder. I wish he'd take the job of a used car salesman that he'd be so effective at and leave Texas politics for good.

[TheNiche]

Lack of a high school diploma virtually guarantees a poverty-level existence.

Not true. Intelligence and ambition determine success, in no small part because such people realize the value of basic educational credentials and are disciplined enough to obtain them.

Also, if students lacking intelligence and ambition drop out, at least they aren't holding up the students that want to be there and that have a future.

[AtticaFlinch]

Intelligence and ambition determine success,

You forgot several other rather important factors, with luck, emotional support and a built-in bankroll being chief among them.

[crunchtastic]

Not true. Intelligence and ambition determine success, in no small part because such people realize the value of basic educational credentials and are disciplined enough to obtain them.

Also, if students lacking intelligence and ambition drop out, at least they aren't holding up the students that want to be there and that have a future.

Some might argue that one reason education is in the toilet is because of vague notions of cultural relativism such

as ones you mention--but that's not my point. Unfortunately poverty, as measured (by people with educations!)for economic

policy reasons does not contemplate native intelligence or good intentions.

Alas, I'm far too lazy to pull the BLS data that shows income relative to education level, but I

eagerly await your data measuring 'ambition' relative to oh, say, GDP.

[TheNiche]

Alas, I'm far too lazy to pull the BLS data that shows income relative to education level, but I

eagerly await your data measuring 'ambition' relative to oh, say, GDP.

I wouldn't dare claim that there isn't a correlation between educational attainment and income, just that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a causal relationship.

As a matter of public policy, the focus shouldn't be on keeping kids in school that aren't motivated to be there, allowing them to disrupt the learning environment for the kids that do care, and then printing out credentials and waving around a "Mission Accomplished" banner. That's so naive. Do you honestly think that they're going to get anything out of their half-year of high school government, taught by the track coach, that'll make them better citizens and neighbors?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that education should be less important or less available. But focusing on the dropout rate speaks more to local culture and individual aptitudes or motivations than it does to the effectiveness of a school district or state agency. (I suspect that the metric is only politically relevant because of teachers' unions.)

But why are we bickering over a claim that I haven't made instead of a claim that I did make, which was that, "Texas schools generate some of the best bang-for-the-buck out of any state." And I stand by that. Check out state comparisons using NAEP data. For 8th grade math (which isn't so affected by language issues), we score solidly above average and rank 17th out of all states; yet we rank 48th for spending per student.

Vermont spent about twice what we spent per student (a difference of about $7,500 per student per year) to rank 3rd in the nation. ...but that's Vermont. Educating Vermont is akin to policing Canada. So compare us to California, another border state with large ESL and border populations. California spends almost exactly what we do per student each year, but ranked 46th for math scores, about on-par with West Virginia.

The fact is, Texas WIPES THE FLOOR with the rest of the American south or southwest in terms of spending and performance.

I genuinely do not like Rick Perry, But we are succeeding in spite of ourselves. Don't take it for granted.

[crunchtastic]

Yay, so we suck marginally less than California, and the costs to teach 8th grade math relative to Vermont are......who the hell cares?

In the state of Texas, today, 4 out of 10 young people will face the odds of never rising above unskilled and/or

low wage labor. Maybe I'm wrong, and 4 of 10 is an acceptable trade-off for the cost. After all, lots of them will end up incarcerated, which will provide underpaid, dangerous jobs for the slightly better-off high school graduates. I still call it a failure of education. I think the national rate is only 70%, and I consider that a failure as well.

But now you've got me thinking.... the since our economy is increasingly threatening a permanent 15-20% u6 unemployment rate, my point is largely moot. The extreme solution is to assume perpetual double digit unemployment and higher needs for low and unskilled labor.

So, we send only 60% of children to school at all. Everyone else then tracks either into skilled trades, a general higher ed path (your liberal arts and business degrees, etc),

and Universities become research and publishing- only postgraduate level programs (free, but extremely exclusive).

Whew. I should solve the country's problems more often. It sure beats dealing with testy actuaries at the office.

[Deut28Thirteen]

There's no denying that Rick Perry sucks. However...

Texas schools generate some of the best bang-for-the-buck out of any state.

I have to disagree with your statement. Texas has the 2nd largest public school system in the country; but we rank 47th in percentage of state revenue spent on public education, 49th in teacher pay, 46th in SAT scores, last in residents with a high school diploma, and 41st in graduation rates. We are getting what we pay for and it does not seem like much.

[TheNiche]

Yay, so we suck marginally less than California, and the costs to teach 8th grade math relative to Vermont are......who the hell cares?

We're a second-quintile state, closer to first-quintile Vermont in performance (a 6-point spread) than we are to fifth-quintile California (a 17-point spread).

To even stand a chance at being a first-quintile state, we'd have to double education spending. But if state and local entities increased funding, they'd have to do so with the knowledge that their labor force is mobile and that much of their investment (particularly the best and brightest) would leave the jurisdiction as soon as possible, supplanted by migrants from other states and countries that didn't have the benefit of a Texas education.

In the state of Texas, today, 4 out of 10 young people will face the odds of never rising above unskilled and/or low wage labor. Maybe I'm wrong, and 4 of 10 is an acceptable trade-off for the cost. After all, lots of them will end up incarcerated, which will provide underpaid, dangerous jobs for the slightly better-off high school graduates. I still call it a failure of education. I think the national rate is only 70%, and I consider that a failure as well.

Wow, I didn't figure you for a classist. There's nothing wrong with unskilled or low-skilled occupations, and Texas' economy is such that we're still importing people to do those jobs, and our cost of living is low enough that they can be fat and comfortable here.

More to the point, those kinds of jobs need to be done one way or the other, and they'll get done by someone with or without a low-level credential. The factors that determine (relative) success for people that make these jobs their career are going to be entirely personal, primarily relating to their character, their intelligence, and oftentimes their good health. For these people, I say teach them what they need to be good citizens, provide the option of a vocational track through the end of high school, and otherwise send them on their merry way.

As for the incarceration rate, it is 930 citizens per 100,000. (For comparison's sake, California is 694 and Vermont is 260.) And yeah, it's pretty high, but I'm not thinking that it's going to have a huge impact on the labor market.

[crunchtastic]

Classist? Ha, you are SO literal, Niche! That whole last post was my 'modest proposal'.

There's nothing wrong with unskilled labor. There is very much wrong when that number is 40% of our youth, and when asshat Rick Perry would rather pander to intellectually dishonest faux conservatives than provide our own kids the right tools to develop their intelligence and ambition and stay competitive.

otherwise, I totally agree with you.

[KinkaidAlum]

Not sure that Texans should be OK with the fact that Vermont spends more per pupil than Texas. I've been to Vermont. It's a beautiful state. That said,

GDP of Texas $880,936,000.00

GDP of Vermont $22,114,000.00

Classist? Ha, you are SO literal, Niche! That whole last post was my 'modest proposal'.

There's nothing wrong with unskilled labor. There is very much wrong when that number is 40% of our youth, and when asshat Rick Perry would rather pander to intellectually dishonest faux conservatives than provide our own kids the right tools to develop their intelligence and ambition and stay competitive.

otherwise, I totally agree with you.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with unskilled labor, but there is something wrong with pigeon-holing kids into said labor. In Texas, the poor are pretty much destined to fail unless they live in a district like HISD that has magnet schools. Even then, the kids need motivated parents to get them into those programs.

[TheNiche]

I have to disagree with your statement. Texas has the 2nd largest public school system in the country; but we rank 47th in percentage of state revenue spent on public education, 49th in teacher pay...

Good! We do more with less.

...46th in SAT scores...

The College Board, which promulgates the SAT and publishes statistical data about the results, cautions not to use rankings by state because participation rates vary in random ways (often influenced by state laws more than by demographics), and the participation rate is inversely correlated with average scores. Sample bias corrupts the analysis.

...last in residents with a high school diploma...

According to American Factfinder, 81.1% of Texans between 25 and 64 years old have a high school diploma. That's not counting everybody, but it captures the relevant workforce. We're essentially on-par with California (81.4%).

...and 41st in graduation rates. We are getting what we pay for and it does not seem like much.

According to Table 1 in this report from the National Center for Educational Statistics, Texas' averaged freshman graduation rate is 73.1%, slightly below the national average of 74.9%. But we outperform all of the border states: California (71.2%), Arizona (70.7%), New Mexico (66.3%). We outperform the American south: Louisiana (63.5%), Mississippi (63.9%), Alabama (69.0%), Florida (66.9%), and Georgia (65.4%). And we aren't Nevada (51.3%). Taking budgetary, cultural, and migratory factors into account, we're doing really very well. ...but even the NCES admits in the narrative that this data isn't especially reliable.

More importantly (see Table 4) Texas' high school dropout rate is 4.0% per year, slightly below the national average. This data is reliable.

[IronTiger]

I'm totally stuck. Is there any Texas governor candidate that doesn't rhyme with "blight" or "scary", yet still has a really good chance of winning?

(Answer: Probably not)

[Blue Dogs]

Perry won the 2010 elections with 55% of the statewide vote carrying 226 out of 254 counties!

Perry won 69% of Anglos, 12% of African Americans & 38% of Latinos.