Taxing Full sugared Cola

[dachmation]

Found this artical in today's Chronicle very interesting , but wonder if it would truly help the obese.--Taxing luxuries isn't exactly new, though, and it could generate needed money?

"Fund reform and fight obesity with tax on sodas"

By ARTHUR B. MARKMAN

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

[Jeebus]

Found this artical in today's Chronicle very interesting , but wonder if it would truly help the obese.--Taxing luxuries isn't exactly new, though, and it could generate needed money?

"Fund reform and fight obesity with tax on sodas"

By ARTHUR B. MARKMAN

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

[20thStDad]

Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

[RedScare]

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

Do your research.

[BryanS]

Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

For men, anything above ~2,000 to 2500 calories/day... you get fat. You eat meals. But between meals... it is the sodas and other snacks that turn your body into a shape that you only need one hand to clap. That being one hand slapping your bare, fat belly. And then you ask yourself: How the hell did this happen?

Here's a link:

http://www.sugarstacks.com/beverages.htm

Look at this picture:

I say we do like the Netherlands. They tax gas vehicles at rate of 180% of the MSRP (plus even more taxes). After all taxes, a $20,000 car becomes $70,000. Electric car? Hardly any tax. That will provide the incentive for people NOT to keep doing something that is harmful to them and everyone else. Which do you think you would buy? (from PBS this morning).

We need to take on "Big Soda." Drink manufactures must produce zero calorie or NEGATIVE calorie drinks. All others to be taxed at 200%. Because I am tired of my tax money going to those who are unemployed, who buy sugar-laden drinks and food - become diabetic... and now I have pay for their health care... When will it ever end?!?

No vending machines of ANY SORT in ANY schools. We had things called water fountains back in my day. You could drink all you wanted. For free!

Enough is enough.

[20thStDad]

Do your research.

No. But if I did, I would come across studies that say diet drinks actually make you fatter than the ones with sugar. source: internet. Fries come with everything. Starch plus oil = bad.

For men, anything above ~2,000 to 2500 calories/day... you get fat. You eat meals. But between meals... it is the sodas and other snacks that turn your body into a shape that you only need one hand to clap. That being one hand slapping your bare, fat belly. And then you ask yourself: How the hell did this happen?

Here's a link:

http://www.sugarstac...m/beverages.htm

Look at this picture:

I say we do like the Netherlands. They tax gas vehicles at rate of 180% of the MSRP (plus even more taxes). After all taxes, a $20,000 car becomes $70,000. Electric car? Hardly any tax. That will provide the incentive for people NOT to keep doing something that is harmful to them and everyone else. Which do you think you would buy? (from PBS this morning).

We need to take on "Big Soda." Drink manufactures must produce zero calorie or NEGATIVE calorie drinks. All others to be taxed at 200%. Because I am tired of my tax money going to those who are unemployed, who buy sugar-laden drinks and food - become diabetic... and now I have pay for their health care... When will it ever end?!?

No vending machines of ANY SORT in ANY schools. We had things called water fountains back in my day. You could drink all you wanted. For free!

Enough is enough.

There are still questions about the long term effects of artificial sweeteners. Some still require cancer warnings on the label. Natural sounds better to me. Punish them by denying benefits later in life. I drink water all day, I don't snack, and I drink maybe 2 sodas a week. It's not that hard.

My point is that people not being able to moderate themselves or their kids has nothing to do with the government and even less to do with taxes. Taxing should not be a method employed to curb self-destructive behavior. Or do you enjoy paying a 90% tax on those cigarettes? If the government thinks it's that bad, make it illegal. Let me eat my oysters, let you smoke Kentucky out of a recession, and let idiot fat kids die at 36 because they drink sodas and eat fries all day.

[AtticaFlinch]

Let me eat my oysters, let you smoke Kentucky out of a recession, and let idiot fat kids die at 36 because they drink sodas and eat fries all day.

I'm all for letting their bad habits kill them too as we are all free to choose how we live our own lives, but there's no reason we can't make a buck or two off them in the process. It's not like they'll complain about it either. They won't be able to participate in protest marches because they'll be too fat to actually march, and all the handicap spots near the protest will have been taken by the early-bird fatties. What you'll end up with is a parking lot full of obese soda drinkers circling the parking lot waiting for a close spot to open; all the while a handicap placard dangles from their rearview. Meanwhile, the protest itself will be attended by the only two lard bottoms who got the handicap spots - which were wide enough for them to pull their Hoverounds from the backseat.

It's a perfect plan. Plus, considering the obese are statistically more likely to be poor, and the poor are statistically more likely to not have health insurance, I say this tax is a bit like a down payment on their future health care bills.

[20thStDad]

I'm all for letting their bad habits kill them too as we are all free to choose how we live our own lives, but there's no reason we can't make a buck or two off them in the process. It's not like they'll complain about it either. They won't be able to participate in protest marches because they'll be too fat to actually march, and all the handicap spots near the protest will have been taken by the early-bird fatties. What you'll end up with is a parking lot full of obese soda drinkers circling the parking lot waiting for a close spot to open; all the while a handicap placard dangles from their rearview. Meanwhile, the protest itself will be attended by the only two lard bottoms who got the handicap spots - which were wide enough for them to pull their Hoverounds from the backseat.

It's a perfect plan. Plus, considering the obese are statistically more likely to be poor, and the poor are statistically more likely to not have health insurance, I say this tax is a bit like a down payment on their future health care bills.

Then can we just charge a tax for being fat (future national health coverage claim denial)? That way non-obese people can keep enjoying bad things in moderation without paying too much for it. It's not the product so much as it is the gross misuse of the product.

Speaking of doing research, I wonder what the success rate is of using taxation as a means to make large scale lifestyle and health improvements in the population.

[BryanS]

Then can we just charge a tax for being fat (future national health coverage claim denial)? That way non-obese people can keep enjoying bad things in moderation without paying too much for it. It's not the product so much as it is the gross misuse of the product.

Speaking of doing research, I wonder what the success rate is of using taxation as a means to make large scale lifestyle and health improvements in the population.

I like the idea of penalizing fat people with a fat tax. Good suggestion.

Regarding products... the government is to protect us. EPA has restrictions on dumping chemicals, you are required to wear a seat belt, you cannot put dursban down anymore to kill fire ants (damn them!), etc, etc. We thought for years that there was nothing wrong with asbestos. Now we know it kills people. Same story with sugar. It just kills us more slowly.

Regarding the fat kids that die at 36... problem is they don't die. They keep living. And need more medical care vs. if they were healthier. It's harmful to their health, and its harmful to my wallet. I say let's tax them, as a function of their weight, and introduce them to tap water. And if they insist on sugar drinks and food... they pay the tax on those items.

...as for cigarrettes... they should be declared illegal and stop all production. But... big tobacco keeps getting in the way... and now Big Soda is crying foul.

There is this commercial on TV... some lady grocery shopping, complaining about all the taxes she has to pay. Hey lady: STFU and just buy DIET COKE! Problem solved!

[20thStDad]

I like the idea of penalizing fat people with a fat tax. Good suggestion.

Regarding products... the government is to protect us. EPA has restrictions on dumping chemicals, you are required to wear a seat belt, you cannot put dursban down anymore to kill fire ants (damn them!), etc, etc. We thought for years that there was nothing wrong with asbestos. Now we know it kills people. Same story with sugar. It just kills us more slowly.

Regarding the fat kids that die at 36... problem is they don't die. They keep living. And need more medical care vs. if they were healthier. It's harmful to their health, and its harmful to my wallet. I say let's tax them, as a function of their weight, and introduce them to tap water. And if they insist on sugar drinks and food... they pay the tax on those items.

...as for cigarrettes... they should be declared illegal and stop all production. But... big tobacco keeps getting in the way... and now Big Soda is crying foul.

There is this commercial on TV... some lady grocery shopping, complaining about all the taxes she has to pay. Hey lady: STFU and just buy DIET COKE! Problem solved!

I don't disagree with any of that, but there's a difference between making something illegal (ban) and just taxing it. The government should absolutely ban things that cause direct harm. But things that cause no harm when they're not used in excess? Too much. I don't like the some-but-not-all approach. And I'm definitely not pushing towards all, because then my scotch and beer get taken away, and I'll have to move to another country. Also, I plan to start smoking a pipe sometime in the next 10 years - in moderation of course, no increased insurance rates because of me - and there's no reason the government should tell me I can't do that.

[musicman]

Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

so there's a need for "new" sodas?

[Mr. Chenevert]

Yea, lets cut out the middleman... what you are suggesting is a fat tax... I like it...

Now let my skinny butt have a coke...

[LTAWACS]

Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

Most people are too ignorant to realize this. They barely know how to get to work and back.

[Ross]

Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

[musicman]

Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

no ketchup, fruit juices, salad dressing, etc. agave for everyone!

[LTAWACS]

no ketchup, fruit juices, salad dressing, etc. agave for everyone!

ketchup is nasty. fruit jooses are anything but. and salads? Argh.

Agave. Yes. Now.

[BryanS]

Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

[musicman]

You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

put down that sweet and sour.

and for those who must, try truvia.

[LTAWACS]

You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

Maybe he's diabetic?

[RedScare]

Most people are too ignorant to realize this. They barely know how to get to work and back.

Another poster who hasn't done his research.

[LTAWACS]

Another poster who hasn't done his research.

Okaaayyy....

The evidence is all around for one to see.

[barracuda]

I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture. Soda is an easy and specious tax target...it will make us feel like we're doing something while having no effect on the larger problem.

[AtticaFlinch]

I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

Let's change the tax to include all things associated with an unhealthy fatty lifestyle, from sodas and fast food to Xbox 360s and Chevy Aveos.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture.

Corn can be a really healthy grain if prepared properly. There's nothing wrong with overproducing it. It was the basic grain crop for an entire hemisphere for millenia. If prepared properly, corn can be quite healthy. It's certainly no worse than wheat, and it produces considerably higher yields per acre.

[TJones]

I don't know if it will honestly help us poor obese people as over the years we have fooled our tastebuds into thinking DIET COKE tastes just like regular, I like Coke Zero muself. I do have concern that it will mostly affect the poor Appalachian children in their quest to have "Mountain Dew Mouth".

[20thStDad]

Let's change the tax to include all things associated with an unhealthy fatty lifestyle, from sodas and fast food to Xbox 360s and Chevy Aveos.

But not bacon, right? No way. Leave my yummy animals alone.

Corn can be a really healthy grain if prepared properly. There's nothing wrong with overproducing it. It was the basic grain crop for an entire hemisphere for millenia. If prepared properly, corn can be quite healthy. It's certainly no worse than wheat, and it produces considerably higher yields per acre.

Corn is awesome. Specifically, Doritos are awesome. If there is a such a big corn surplus, I want to see Doritos prices at 1/3 of what they currently are. This would be true progress.

[AtticaFlinch]

But not bacon, right? No way. Leave my yummy animals alone.

Most definitely not bacon. I like my burgers with extra cow and extra pig, and considering the good burger joints already think that makes the thing worth almost ten dollars... I can't pay twenty bucks for a burger. I just can't. And, I'd hate to be forced to become a vegetarian by default.

Corn is awesome. Specifically, Doritos are awesome. If there is a such a big corn surplus, I want to see Doritos prices at 1/3 of what they currently are. This would be true progress.

I'm thinking Chili-Cheese Fritos, but same concept.

[trymahjong]

I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture. Soda is an easy and specious tax target...it will make us feel like we're doing something while having no effect on the larger problem.

I think taxing full sugar soda is a place to start--but don't have any expectations other than that-- "a start"

I'm wondering what manufacturers reaction will be. . . . . . will their researchers give us "different" or "less harmful" sugar-------as the tobacco companies gave us different cigarettes?

[sevfiv]

I don't know...there needs to be a better holistic approach to this. Taxing may bring in some revenue but I am not sure how much it will change habits/lifestyles (think cigarettes, gasoline perhaps).

Encouraging eating more whole/less refined foods from the beginning will help, though it doesn't help that so much of the bad stuff is so cheap.

[marmer]

I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

[LTAWACS]

I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

It's not impossible. One has to make changes in their diet. For example, you say you eat a lot of lean meat and chicken. Well those items still contain calories. I have not eaten red meat in 3 years. I rarely eat chicken. For meat I usually eat fish. Tuna straight from the can or the like. I sit all day at work. Run 3 (sometimes 4) miles a day. I don't drink milk at all - it's not even designed for humans. I've lost 40 lbs and still dropping. Slowly and steadily.

The point of all this is that people simply don't know what or how to eat. Almost everything out there is processed. Ugh. I mean come on... who the hell drinks soft drinks anyway? Ugh. Those things are a cesspool of toxins. The food industry has a big part in all this because they cater to the ignorant. Try ordering a chicken sammich at McDs or anywhere else. They will ask you "Grilled or Crispy?"

Grilled or Crispy.

We're talking apples and oranges. They SHOULD say "Grilled or Fried" because that is the method of cooking used. But Crispy sounds a lot better than Fried. And again, most are too stupid to see this. If they are fat, then they are fat for a reason and it's their very own fault. NOT genetics. It's sheer ignorance.