SJL Town Halls

[plumber2]

She was probably getting call from her office on Mars.

Or from her "End of Term" counselor.

[plumber2]

That was beyond rude. I don't care if you agree with Obama's healthcare plan or not, it was still rude and disrespectful. I really am hoping that Sean Roberts can at least give her a run for her money.

And as far as Shelia being a patsy for the Dems, I don't believe she wields that much power. Everyone knows she's a joke. I'd bet that candid interviews with some of her colleagues would suggest that deep down inside, they think she's a nutcase.

She is really not that important to the Obama administration or to Nancy Pelosi. If you remember right, she stayed loyal to Hillary Clinton right up to the end of the primary. She is black and her district is predominently black, therefore the administration does not need to reward her or persuade her. Her allegiance is taken for granted.

[brian0123]

They were going about their business, not being affected whatsoever by the Patriot Act. This affects everyone.

Actually, they were lied to by the right wing into thinking the Patriot Act didn't effect them... so they were subservient.

Of course this health care "bill" (technically it's not even a bill yet... but people are angry over proposals) affects everyone... just like any other piece of legislation impacts you in one way or another. The only reason people are so angry about this is that they have been lied to again by the right wing.

Angry about the government running things? Well then why not protest against our military, and argue for privatizing it? Heck, why not just outsource it all to KBR and Blackwater?

Afraid a government run company will put private companies out of business? Hmm, seems like UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. compete fairly well against the USPS.

SJL is a moron... but the people protesting against her are even more idiotic. At least it makes for some great entertainment on the nightly news.

[spiderroller]

The bottom line is this:

The 2 primary people to blame for anything you don't like about the Obama Administration or any plan he proposes are:

1. George Bush (no explanation needed here)

2. John McCain (for picking a nutball because he was interested in "Country First")

Obama is President... and the Democrats control enough power to ruin our lives... primarily because of these 2 men. Don't blame "the other side". Don't blame those you ideologically hate. Blame "your side" if a healthcare plan passes that ruins America and your childrens' future.

As far as Spoda Jackson Lee... the only difference between now and the Retard Administration is that she'll get more publicity and TV time than when she sat in the front row when Dilbert gave his State of the Yoonion addresses. Though she's a self-serving fool, why complain about her?

And as far as having "planted" people asking questions.... friggin' please.... planted people and planted questions are part of every public speaking event in the Country, by all politicians, from both parties.

[Marksmu]

Actually, they were lied to by the right wing into thinking the Patriot Act didn't effect them... so they were subservient.

Of course this health care "bill" (technically it's not even a bill yet... but people are angry over proposals) affects everyone... just like any other piece of legislation impacts you in one way or another. The only reason people are so angry about this is that they have been lied to again by the right wing.

Angry about the government running things? Well then why not protest against our military, and argue for privatizing it? Heck, why not just outsource it all to KBR and Blackwater?

Afraid a government run company will put private companies out of business? Hmm, seems like UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. compete fairly well against the USPS.

SJL is a moron... but the people protesting against her are even more idiotic. At least it makes for some great entertainment on the nightly news.

Wow - its hard to believe that people like you really do exist, but your post is proof of it. This bill effects everyone, if you think for even one second that a government run plan that undercuts private companies left and right for all essential care will not price the private programs out of business you are blind. The government is going to say to the pharmacetuicals give us x and y and we are paying z...if they dont comply, no more tax break, no more federal grants, no more of a whole lot of things...they get their products at z now....well Private industry who will still be "competing" if you can call that - will end up making up the difference, Z+5. Eventually private care wont be profitable anymore...the essential care, though simple and routine makes up a large amount of the volume of money that practitioners receive.

The only real care that will still exist is catastrophic insurance, which under the terms of some of the 5 competing drafts is made illegal as it does not cover enough of the different things required to be a legal insurance policy.

Comparing health care to the military though really? I can think of about 300,000,000 differences that matter...not the least of which is a chain of command that prevents abuse of the military on others.

And comparing the post office to the health industry...really? I can LIVE if I dont get any mail for a few days, if I dont get the care needed WHEN I need it...I die. Besides the post office is losing money hand over foot, and they have a complete monopoly over placing anything in a mail box. Do you know how much cheaper it would be if Fed Ex could leave a letter in a mail box instead of having to hand deliver it to people?

The Patriot act may have taken away a few rights, and I dont agree with that, but Im not about to sacrifice the HIGH quality affordable care that I currently do have, so that some person who currently does not WANT to pay for health care can get it for free. I would like to know how many of those who dont have health insurance because they "cant afford it" DO HAVE a car, cable television, cell phone and other luxuries, but not health care. People just think they deserve that which they dont want to pay for out of their own pocket. If you got a free tv every time you saw a doctor I bet a bunch of folks would start going more often!

When you make free that which was not free - there will be shortages of doctors, drugs, hospital beds, everything...Health care is not a right. Its a privilege, one that comes from work. I am sick to death of being taxed to death and continually hear the democrats tell me that I make too much, and we need to give more of my money to other people because they dont have enough. Its sick - When I saw that NY just gave $165,000,000 to the poor in the form of CASH from the federal stimulus I threw my hands up in the air and just about lost it! What a waste of MY money...giving flat out cash to those who are "poor" Ya Great idea! That really gives them incentive to get off their butt and work. Free health care just means that those who were paying for it, now are not going to continue to do so.

Every action has a reaction. Your pretty picture of free health care will bankrupt the country and destroy the worlds greatest health care system.

[brian0123]

...Im not about to sacrifice the HIGH quality affordable care that I currently do have, so that some person who currently does not WANT to pay for health care can get it for free. I would like to know how many of those who dont have health insurance because they "cant afford it" DO HAVE a car, cable television, cell phone and other luxuries, but not health care. People just think they deserve that which they dont want to pay for out of their own pocket. If you got a free tv every time you saw a doctor I bet a bunch of folks would start going more often!

I hate to bust your bubble, but we are already paying for the uninsured. When people show up at the emergency room that don't have health care...you (or your employer) are paying for them through higher premiums. By getting these people covered and paying into the system through taxes... they will start receiving the cheaper, preventative care instead of showing up at the ER for a sore throat. Overtime, this will reduce costs, and we will be paying less as a result.

When you make free that which was not free - there will be shortages of doctors, drugs, hospital beds, everything...Health care is not a right. Its a privilege, one that comes from work.

First, no one is proposing a free system. Second, health care IS a right. If you were sick and couldn't pay for it, I believe you should receive treatment (and I would have no problem with my taxes going for that). I'd rather you be healthy, instead of walking around and coughing on me (maybe passing some swine flu in the process)

I am sick to death of being taxed to death and continually hear the democrats tell me that I make too much, and we need to give more of my money to other people because they dont have enough.

Uh, yeah. Democrats literally say this all the time . I make a lot of money too, but I don't feel "taxed to death". I understand that I made my money in a country that provides me safety with an incredible military, allowed me to get to work on roads with a great infrastructure, etc. etc. In other words, I have no problem paying my fair share in order to be a part of a civilized society.

Its sick - When I saw that NY just gave $165,000,000 to the poor in the form of CASH from the federal stimulus I threw my hands up in the air and just about lost it! What a waste of MY money...giving flat out cash to those who are "poor" Ya Great idea! That really gives them incentive to get off their butt and work. Free health care just means that those who were paying for it, now are not going to continue to do so.

The point of the stimulus money was to get it in the hands of people that would spend it... you know... to stimulate the economy. The program you are referring to was for poor kids so they could purchase back to school supplies... which you know... stimulates the economy. Also, God forbid we try to help poor kids actually get an education so that they CAN get a job later in life.

If they had given that stimulus money to me, I probably would have just put it in the stock market and sat on it for a long time... doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

[spiderroller]

I hate to bust your bubble, but we are already paying for the uninsured. When people show up at the emergency room that don't have health care...you (or your employer) are paying for them through higher premiums. By getting these people covered and paying into the system through taxes... they will start receiving the cheaper, preventative care instead of showing up at the ER for a sore throat. Overtime, this will reduce costs, and we will be paying less as a result.

First, no one is proposing a free system. Second, health care IS a right. If you were sick and couldn't pay for it, I believe you should receive treatment (and I would have no problem with my taxes going for that). I'd rather you be healthy, instead of walking around and coughing on me (maybe passing some swine flu in the process)

Uh, yeah. Democrats literally say this all the time . I make a lot of money too, but I don't feel "taxed to death". I understand that I made my money in a country that provides me safety with an incredible military, allowed me to get to work on roads with a great infrastructure, etc. etc. In other words, I have no problem paying my fair share in order to be a part of a civilized society.

The point of the stimulus money was to get it in the hands of people that would spend it... you know... to stimulate the economy. The program you are referring to was for poor kids so they could purchase back to school supplies... which you know... stimulates the economy. Also, God forbid we try to help poor kids actually get an education so that they CAN get a job later in life.

If they had given that stimulus money to me, I probably would have just put it in the stock market and sat on it for a long time... doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

Until the boogeymen take out our entire political system during the state of the union address (mapquest osama... mapquest buddy....... Jan '10... "calendar" on your iphone.... ).... so we can start over.... our Country is nothing but a bunch of foke arguing over nothing that will fix anything.

[Marksmu]

I hate to bust your bubble, but we are already paying for the uninsured. When people show up at the emergency room that don't have health care...you (or your employer) are paying for them through higher premiums. By getting these people covered and paying into the system through taxes... they will start receiving the cheaper, preventative care instead of showing up at the ER for a sore throat. Overtime, this will reduce costs, and we will be paying less as a result.

I think emergency rooms should be able to turn people away for non emergency care. Tell them where the closest redi clinic is and go on with their day. Plenty of savings there. The redi clinic is CHEAP, with or without insurance - lets utilize those types of places where a non doctor can prescribe a generic prescription for cheap before we give them free care at an emergency room. What is it $60 at a redi clinic - everyone has that.

First, no one is proposing a free system. Second, health care IS a right. If you were sick and couldn't pay for it, I believe you should receive treatment (and I would have no problem with my taxes going for that). I'd rather you be healthy, instead of walking around and coughing on me (maybe passing some swine flu in the process)

If its not "free" how are those who cant afford it going to? How are those who wont buy it cause they dont want it going to get it? They are going to force it on you - and those who dont make enough, get it for free. I do admire you for your good will towards humanity that you would rather me be healthy, and I too would like you to be healthy, but for me to be forced to pay for it, I dont agree with that. The US is the most charitable nation there is...lets let Charity solve the problems for the few who really cant afford it, and not Force the rest of us to pay for those who just would rather have a car and cable TV.

Uh, yeah. Democrats literally say this all the time . I make a lot of money too, but I don't feel "taxed to death". I understand that I made my money in a country that provides me safety with an incredible military, allowed me to get to work on roads with a great infrastructure, etc. etc. In other words, I have no problem paying my fair share in order to be a part of a civilized society.

I recognize plenty of Dems make plenty of money too - I wasnt saying that any one party makes more - I just fee like I pay more than my fair share and dont think I should have addittional taxes as punishment so the current Democrats can get their agenda through. Some of this is legitimate wanting to help the people - most is a pure desire to secure a huge base of voters by giving away everything. Obama ran on the platform of taking from those who have too much...the rich dont pay enough, he must have said it on 20 different appearances...Im just going to take from those who can afford it...

The point of the stimulus money was to get it in the hands of people that would spend it... you know... to stimulate the economy. The program you are referring to was for poor kids so they could purchase back to school supplies... which you know... stimulates the economy. Also, God forbid we try to help poor kids actually get an education so that they CAN get a job later in life.

I believe that is called trickle down poverty - take from those who have it, and give to those who dont! It is also called socialism - If they wanted to buy school supplies for poor kids they should have mandated how a school district spent it, not given it as CASH on their welfare card - which can be spent any way they please. Some of that probably got spent on the kids, a huge portion of it went to drugs and everything else they wanted. They get to withdraw that as CASH at a check cashing store - thats not right.

If they had given that stimulus money to me, I probably would have just put it in the stock market and sat on it for a long time... doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

I cant argue with what you would have done....I save my set amount every month, I put away for the future....but when I have extra, I frequently spend it. I cant say what I would do if I all of a sudden got back a bunch of money, but I can say for sure I would spend a good bit of it.

Finally - what about all those who have cars, cable, cell phones but not health care....should they not have to prioritize like the rest of us? I dont think those things are rights, and they have put those things above their own health care...if I have to pay for their health care, then they need to take away those non-necessary items including cell phones, cars, television etc...You pay for your basics first, food, clothing, shelter, health care, then you get your luxuries.

[kylejack]

I think emergency rooms should be able to turn people away for non emergency care.

Well that's an untenable position that will never grab hold.

[rsb320]

Finally - what about all those who have cars, cable, cell phones but not health care....should they not have to prioritize like the rest of us? I dont think those things are rights, and they have put those things above their own health care...if I have to pay for their health care, then they need to take away those non-necessary items including cell phones, cars, television etc...You pay for your basics first, food, clothing, shelter, health care, then you get your luxuries.

I have a cell phone, car, TV and healthcare coverage. The irony is that my healthcare insurance payment is more than my car payment. I just don't think that's right.

[Marksmu]

I have a cell phone, car, TV and healthcare coverage. The irony is that my healthcare insurance payment is more than my car payment. I just don't think that's right.

What is more important? Your health care or your car? If its your health care then its priced correctly.

[heights_yankee]

Finally - what about all those who have cars, cable, cell phones but not health care....should they not have to prioritize like the rest of us? I dont think those things are rights, and they have put those things above their own health care...if I have to pay for their health care, then they need to take away those non-necessary items including cell phones, cars, television etc...You pay for your basics first, food, clothing, shelter, health care, then you get your luxuries.

well, in many small cities (or large ones like, say, houston) a car is needed to get to work to provide for themselves or their family. some jobs even require a car (say, pizza delivery). many people have cell phones rather than home phones these days. should people have no phone at all? what if they have kids? television- sure. i will give you that.

then there are the adults who choose to pay, out of pocket, for their kids' healthcare rather than their own because that is what they can afford. but what about when a parent gets sick? they have no insurance, get sicker, have to stay home from work, lose their job. then they are on welfare or unemployment and we paid for their medical bills when they went to the ER anyway. shouldn't we just provide them with some basic preventative care before hand and help the whole family to avoid paying several other entitlements later?

[Zippy]

Actually, they were lied to by the right wing into thinking the Patriot Act didn't effect them... so they were subservient.

Of course this health care "bill" (technically it's not even a bill yet... but people are angry over proposals) affects everyone... just like any other piece of legislation impacts you in one way or another. The only reason people are so angry about this is that they have been lied to again by the right wing.

Ignorance is bliss, and kool aid tastes good!

pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:

1. This section amends the Social Security Act

2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”

3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.

4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.

5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.

6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.

7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.

pages 26-30, SEC. 122, ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED:

1. The bill defines “acceptable coverage” and leaves no room for choice in this regard.

2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services, but carry insurance only for catastrophic events, (such as Health Savings Accounts) illegal.

Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?

Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE

1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.

2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government “option.”

3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.

4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.

5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.

6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.

Want more? http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm

But that's okay.. it's really about covering people and keeping costs down.. not about control of you and your lives.

Drink up!

Edit: Yes is it a "Bill".. HR3200.. it would not have a number if it were still in committee..

[VicMan]

With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.

According to http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/seniordeath.asp some people feel that will happen if the federal government has enough incentives for a federal health care system and/or enough disincentives for a private system.

The thing is, these HMOs deserve being cut down.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/opinion/31krugman.html?em

"Yet private markets for health insurance, left to their own devices, work very badly: insurers deny as many claims as possible, and they also try to avoid covering people who are likely to need care. Horror stories are legion: the insurance company that refused to pay for urgently needed cancer surgery because of questions about the patient’s acne treatment; the healthy young woman denied coverage because she briefly saw a psychologist after breaking up with her boyfriend."

I would prefer that the federal government covers everyone who needs coverage, even if the care and services are imperfect, instead of having people who need health care coverage denied health care coverage.

[RedScare]

I am amused by people defending US insurance companies.

[JLWM8609]

Ignorance is bliss, and kool aid tastes good!

pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:

1. This section amends the Social Security Act

2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”

3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.

4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.

5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.

6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.

7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.

pages 26-30, SEC. 122, ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED:

1. The bill defines “acceptable coverage” and leaves no room for choice in this regard.

2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services, but carry insurance only for catastrophic events, (such as Health Savings Accounts) illegal.

Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?

Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE

1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.

2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government “option.”

3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.

4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.

5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.

6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.

Want more? http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm

But that's okay.. it's really about covering people and keeping costs down.. not about control of you and your lives.

Drink up!

Edit: Yes is it a "Bill".. HR3200.. it would not have a number if it were still in committee..

You would have done better if you provided a link to the bill from a site that doesn't have a political slant to it. Let folks read it for themselves and form their own conclusions free of bias.

[JLWM8609]

She is really not that important to the Obama administration or to Nancy Pelosi.

Has she ever been important to ANY administration?

If you remember right, she stayed loyal to Hillary Clinton right up to the end of the primary. She is black and her district is predominently black, therefore the administration does not need to reward her or persuade her. Her allegiance is taken for granted.

Yes, I remember Sheila's support of Hillary while her district was clearly an Obama supporting majority district. I was there when Sheila got booed by her constituents at the big convention at TSU. I'll admit, yes I booed at her. Even if I was supporting Hillary I still would've booed her because she's an egocentric, ignorant embarrassment to District 18. The woman is sick and the only cure is to vote her out.

[20thStDad]

I think emergency rooms should be able to turn people away for non emergency care.

Well that's an untenable position that will never grab hold.

Why? I like it. I bet 90% of people in the emergency room don't have real emergencies. If you are sick go to the hospital or doctor, get admitted if needed. Not the ER. If you can wait 4-8 hours like most people have to, it wasn't an emergency. Or maybe we just split "I'm sick" from "I'm bleeding or having a heart attack" in hospitals so it's not all so ridiculous when you get there.

Health care costs way too much the way the insurance companies run it right now. I have no faith that the government can do it better. I prefer that it simply regulate the private companies rather than administrate things. I haven't read anything about this bill, so I'm not really arguing one way or the other.

[crunchtastic]

What is more important? Your health care or your car? If its your health care then its priced correctly.

No. Health care and health insurance are not the same thing. In the current system, it is possible to pay thousands over the years, while using very little actual 'care,' Then one day when you need care, the so-called insurance will try to refuse to cover the claim. It is nothing short of a criminal racket. One day, a few good plaintiff's lawyers will find a way to prosecute health insurance companies under federal RICO law.

The system is broken for too many people. Including people who have spent their lives playing by the rules, paying for benefits they never get. Most people understand the concept of pooled risk. That they pay in. But with the understanding that they will eventually get something in return. Private insurance companies not forced to compete will do everything in their power to make sure you pay in, and don't get anything in return. I am willing to gamble on the new option. Hell, I'm pissed they've taken single payer off the table.

To everyone who is happy with their current coverage and is pissed at what will potentially be 'stolen' from them: do a little pricing experiment. Pretend you work, and have a SAH wife who's pregnant. You get laid off and lose your employer-provided coverage. Assume you have to cover you, your wife with her preexisting condition, and your 4 year old, who has mild asthma. Shop those private company rates and get back to me. That is an everyday scenario which puts health insurance, (as well as health care that involves hospital stays, complicated blood work, imaging, surgery, etc,) out of reach in this country for middle-class people. Every day families in this country become at-risk for medically related financial ruin through no fault of their own.

I understand the compulsion to try and make a stand on principle. But we can't afford the principle anymore, simple as that.

[Gooch]

I'm going to say one thing on this thread then never reopen it again. For all those that want the government to run their healthcare need to remember something...

Keeping in mind that GWB (who liberals consider an idiot got elected TWICE).... Sarah Palin could win in 2012, 2016, or 2020. Do you really want to risk having her in charge of your healthcare?

[RedScare]

I'm going to say one thing on this thread then never reopen it again. For all those that want the government to run their healthcare need to remember something...

Keeping in mind that GWB (who liberals consider an idiot got elected TWICE).... Sarah Palin could win in 2012, 2016, or 2020. Do you really want to risk having her in charge of your healthcare?

Well, since you won't be opening this thread again you won't ever know that I proclaimed this the single most ignorant reason to oppose healthcare reform ever...just ahead of the 'death panel'.

I note that everyone touting how great their health insurance is seems to be healthy, and pays very little for it. It is more than a little ironic that on the subject of INSURANCE, these healthy and employed individuals would gamble that they will always be healthy and employed. Then again, when it's all about the ideology as opposed to good policy, things tend to get goofy.

[brian0123]

Sarah Palin could win in 2012, 2016, or 2020.

Wow. Um... yeah.

By 2020, my guess is that the Republican primary will think Palin is too liberal. Instead, they will elect some stay-at-home mom who speaks in tongues and claims Jesus told her how to fix this country. Oh, and Joe the Plumber will be her VP.

[spiderroller]

The issue of "end of life" healthcare will be the nail in the coffin for the proposed healthcare plan.

The care of the elderly is 20-fold more important than the care of a 3 year old.

[Marksmu]

No. Health care and health insurance are not the same thing. In the current system, it is possible to pay thousands over the years, while using very little actual 'care,' Then one day when you need care, the so-called insurance will try to refuse to cover the claim. It is nothing short of a criminal racket. One day, a few good plaintiff's lawyers will find a way to prosecute health insurance companies under federal RICO law.

The system is broken for too many people. Including people who have spent their lives playing by the rules, paying for benefits they never get. Most people understand the concept of pooled risk. That they pay in. But with the understanding that they will eventually get something in return. Private insurance companies not forced to compete will do everything in their power to make sure you pay in, and don't get anything in return. I am willing to gamble on the new option. Hell, I'm pissed they've taken single payer off the table.

To everyone who is happy with their current coverage and is pissed at what will potentially be 'stolen' from them: do a little pricing experiment. Pretend you work, and have a SAH wife who's pregnant. You get laid off and lose your employer-provided coverage. Assume you have to cover you, your wife with her preexisting condition, and your 4 year old, who has mild asthma. Shop those private company rates and get back to me. That is an everyday scenario which puts health insurance, (as well as health care that involves hospital stays, complicated blood work, imaging, surgery, etc,) out of reach in this country for middle-class people. Every day families in this country become at-risk for medically related financial ruin through no fault of their own.

I understand the compulsion to try and make a stand on principle. But we can't afford the principle anymore, simple as that.

It is too expensive, but its too expensive now, not because the insurance companies and the doctors making big profits are making it too expensive - its too expensive because hospitals are forced to care for everyone that shows up whether or not they pay, and because insurance companies are given various non compete areas, and are forced to follow ridiculous number of state laws that vary drastically between the states. As long as you force people to take patients against their will and force people to pay for other peoples care against their will, everything stays screwed up. How do we solve the problem? Its not that hard. Letting the government control it, is not going to make it cheaper, it will get more expensive, only this time, instead of the cost being borne by the people who are using the service, the cost will be borne by the person who is working and earning money - the "millionaires" (those making more than $200,000/yr) will start paying more and more and more, until they say I quit and go somewhere else.

You want ways to make it cheaper, here are some very good starting points:

1) If a hospital could turn people away and send someone to a redi clinic for a prescription ($60) instead of seeing them in the emergency room ($1600) health care gets cheaper.

2) If you prevent scummy PI lawyers from making millions on accidents, health care gets cheaper

3) If you allow health insurance to be tax deductible more people buy it, health care gets cheaper because the pool gets bigger.

4) If you let people choose which parts of insurance they want, and what degree of coverage, healthcare gets cheaper - most people dont need to pay for mental health, and its one of the most expensive parts of health insurance.

5) Make the costs more transparent - let people choose what tests they want and have the doctor explain why. If the doctor isnt afraid of being sued, he wont run multiple un-necessary tests.

6) Require people to enroll in some kind of a private health care program - give a tax break for it - the insurance companies like it, they get more base, and the people get coverage. No drivers license without health care, no cell phone without health care, no cable tv without health care....require health care to buy a house, get a loan for anything, etc....you cant make people get it but you can prevent them from getting luxuries till they have it!

People see health care as a right, but they think it should be free. They dont like to pay for health care because they seldom use it, but when all of a sudden they need it and they dont have it, its someone elses fault -

Dont get me wrong the system needs to be fixed, but a government run plan is definitely NOT the solution to our problem. Everything government touches, gets bigger, and more expensive fast! mandatory pay increases, inability to get fired from the job, countless unnecessary positions that get paid with zero accountability - Government is NOT the answer - more government people to pay is a problem! Let the private insurance do it, regulate it, and utilize the vast existing networks already there!

[brian0123]

6) Require people to enroll in some kind of a private health care program - give a tax break for it - the insurance companies like it, they get more base, and the people get coverage. No drivers license without health care, no cell phone without health care, no cable tv without health care....require health care to buy a house, get a loan for anything, etc....you cant make people get it but you can prevent them from getting luxuries till they have it!

So you want the government to force people to buy private insurance? What about those that can't (since you don't like the idea of others paying for the poor through taxes)? Are you going to not let poor people drive a car to a job?

Essentially, you (someone arguing against government intrusion) has just argued for some of the most extreme government intrusion into people's lives.

[Marksmu]

So you want the government to force people to buy private insurance? What about those that can't (since you don't like the idea of others paying for the poor through taxes)? Are you going to not let poor people drive a car to a job?

Essentially, you (someone arguing against government intrusion) has just argued for some of the most extreme government intrusion into people's lives.

Public transportation or live close to your job. People are apparently so stupid they fail to prioritize properly. You dont have to have a car...Im not saying that forced insurance is what I want, but its much better than other people paying for everyone elses care, when even though they are technically "poor" they still have a car, cable, cell phones, etc...

Receiving health care is a privilege - not a right. Its beneficial for everyone if everyone has health care - you cant drive without casualty insurance already, whats the difference? Now you just cant buy luxury goods, and a car is a luxury, until you have health insurance. If your going to put all of us out there who have health care, at risk of catching your diseases, and illnesses, then you should pay your share. There is no government run auto insurance and its affordable.

Im not necessarily advocating it, but ideas need to be out there.

[gto250us]

I don't want either a Democrat or Republican, Blue or Red, Left or Right leaning politician in charge of my health care, or in charge of anything else. We should have all politicians stay home for a year. I think that we would find that the country went on just fine or perhaps better without them. After that one year we would probably just want to eliminate most of the federal government.

Oh and by the way. Just what is a "User Rank"? I see that I am a "Theater". What am I aspiring to next and how do I get there?

[RedScare]

Receiving health care is a privilege - not a right.

Many disagree.

[gto250us]

Many disagree.

I think those old guys in Philadelphia mumbled something about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so some may argue that health care is a right since it leads to all three. But I think the real question is whether or not Affordable Health Care is or is not a right.

We end up with severely distorted economies when people are not held responsible for their costs. As long as someone else is paying the bill why should I care if i am obese, smoke 2 packs Lucky's a day and eat at McDonalds 4 times a week, is what they will think

[RedScare]

I think those old guys in Philadelphia mumbled something about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so some may argue that health care is a right since it leads to all three. But I think the real question is whether or not Affordable Health Care is or is not a right.

We end up with severely distorted economies when people are not held responsible for their costs. As long as someone else is paying the bill why should I care if i am obese, smoke 2 packs Lucky's a day and eat at McDonalds 4 times a week, is what they will think

You have a point, and that should be part of the debate. The truth is, healthcare is completely out of whack in this country because of insurers, doctors, drug companies AND consumers abusing the system. Insurers limit maximum coverage and deny claims, among many other transgressions. Doctors order needless tests to run up a tab. An example is the doctors' clinic that referred 5 or 6 patients for MRIs per month until they bought their own scanner. Immediately, referrals to their own MRI jumped to 74 per month. Drug companies push unneeded pills on consumers and doctors. And consumers are perhaps the worst. They eat what they want, don't exercise, commit countless other unhealthy acts, and expect insurance to cover it all. Yet, the opposition to healthcare reform centers on encouraging consumers to continue engaging in these very same behaviors. Reform means CHANGES. If costs are out of control because every one of the participants is looting the system, then reform can ONLY come from limiting the ability to gouge. Yet, here are the big money interests misleading people into thinking it is the government causing the problem. NO! It is the doctors, drug cos., insurers and consumers causing the problem.

Some of Marksmu's suggestions actually could eliminate some of the waste. I would support limits on malpractice damages to help eliminate waste. I support ERs directing the simply sick to lower cost clinics, reserving the ER for the critically ill and injured. But, there also need to be minimum standards for coverage. There need to be limits on needless testing. Frankly, since taxing bad behavior works, we need to tax sodas and fast food, just as my pack a day habit and my rum is taxed heavily. All of these things should be on the table. But, what do we get instead? Quitters from Alaska...who supported end-of-life counseling in 2008...decrying 'death panels', which do not even exist in the proposals. In fact, the counseling that was to be paid for was actually a proposal by a Georgia Republican.

The town hall yellers are doing no one...least of all themselves...any favors. By yelling down the speakers and putting falsehoods forward as fact, they have eliminated any discussion of what the reform should include. This is exactly as the lobbyists designed it to work, but once again the American people get screwed. But the yellers are too ignorant to realize that they just cut off their nose.