God talked to me... does that make me crazy?

[HtownWxBoy]

Ok, no, God didn't really talk to me, at least not today. But I was watching the movie Evan Almighty today while I was home... I have seen it before and it's a really cute movie. In it Steve Carell plays Evan who is told by God, played by Morgan Freeman, that he needs to build an arc because a flood is coming. So anyways, after some convincing he begins building the arc and everyone in town calls him crazy even though he tells them that God told him to do this.

We live in a Nation where many people consider themselves "Christians" and they believe in God and they pray to God and believe all that stuff... yadda, yadda, yadda. If I were to say tomorrow that God spoke to me and he wants me to build a big boat and I start building it... a lot of people, many of them "Christians", would probably think I should be locked up in an institution. Why is that? What if I went on TV tomorrow and claimed that God came to me in my dream and wanted me to deliver the message that some people being born gay is normal and part of his divine plan and that gays should be allowed to get married... would gay marriage have to automatically be made legal... b/c God said so? How would people know for sure whether or not God did talk to me... why would most automatically think it's not true even though many believe in God and believe you can pray to God and that God hears your prayers and all that stuff...?

Long night at work... I have some downtime... just something I was thinking about.

[Heights2Bastrop]

I was going to address this in the thread about science in the classroom, but this seems to be a more appropriate topic to do so.

As one who converses with god, I can assure you I don’t think people who claim to do so are crazy. That’s not to say I always believe it when someone makes that claim, especially when some TV evangelist claims god told him I needed to send him money. But if someone truly has “found god”, then I would hope they also found a way to communicate with him, or her.

The thing is, though, that not everyone communicates with god in the same way. I suppose there are some who might have interactive discussions with god. Personally, my conversations run along the lines of 20 Questions – I ask her questions that require a yes or no answer, and she answers thusly.

Sometimes I get the answer to my question immediately. Sometimes the answer comes days later, or weeks, or months later. But I feel confident she will answer eventually.

And I don’t always get the answers in the same manner every time. Sometimes the answer comes to me like a loud voice. Sometimes it comes like a gentle nudge. Sometimes the answer comes from a friend, or relative.

And sometimes it comes through the television. Countless times I have asked a question, and within days, I will chance upon a TV program that deals with the issue my question relates to.

This may sound even stranger than god suggesting someone build an ark, but many times in the past, god answered my question with a meteor, or “shooting star”. Usually these were questions that weighed heavily on my mind, like if I was making the right decision in a relationship.

Once I was driving with a woman I was dating, and we were discussing marriage. We just sort of came to a mutual decision to do the deed, and I said something to the effect, “Good. Let’s do it”. At that very moment, one of the brightest meteors I have ever seen appeared through the front windshield slowly heading in the direction we were heading along the West Loop.

The meteor pulsed once, then another time, and then split into two parts just before dying out, and taking about three seconds to do so, which is a long duration for a meteor. But that was my answer from god. I can’t explain it, but I accepted it as such.

Here’s the kicker, though. The woman and I had a bit of a blowup sometime after that, but we stayed together. Then we had a second major argument that we couldn’t get past and broke up for good.

The sign, the meteor, the answer from god was exactly as the relationship unfolded. I just misunderstood the answer. And thinking back on other “meteoric” situations, it came to me that I had misread many of those answers, too.

The point is, even though we get answers from god, we don’t always understand the answer correctly.

Finally, and this is curtail, god does not give everyone the same answers, especially about “right or wrong” situations. God has repeatedly made it clear to me that while I am right about a particular thing, it doesn’t necessarily mean those who think differently are wrong.

I will consider a situation and come to a decision about how I feel about it, and what I should do about it. I then ask god, “Is my way the right way?”

And she so often answers me in the same way, “Yes, your way is the right way, but it’s not the only way.”

[TheNiche]

Ok, no, God didn't really talk to me, at least not today. But I was watching the movie Evan Almighty today while I was home... I have seen it before and it's a really cute movie. In it Steve Carell plays Evan who is told by God, played by Morgan Freeman, that he needs to build an arc because a flood is coming. So anyways, after some convincing he begins building the arc and everyone in town calls him crazy even though he tells them that God told him to do this.

We live in a Nation where many people consider themselves "Christians" and they believe in God and they pray to God and believe all that stuff... yadda, yadda, yadda. If I were to say tomorrow that God spoke to me and he wants me to build a big boat and I start building it... a lot of people, many of them "Christians", would probably think I should be locked up in an institution. Why is that? What if I went on TV tomorrow and claimed that God came to me in my dream and wanted me to deliver the message that some people being born gay is normal and part of his divine plan and that gays should be allowed to get married... would gay marriage have to automatically be made legal... b/c God said so? How would people know for sure whether or not God did talk to me... why would most automatically think it's not true even though many believe in God and believe you can pray to God and that God hears your prayers and all that stuff...?

Long night at work... I have some downtime... just something I was thinking about.

The question that would undoubtedly arise would be, "whose god talked to you; it wasn't mine." Christianity is not practiced by one monolithic category of people. There are thousands of different sects of Christians in the United States, each playing by their own rulebook. Not all of them are opposed to gay marriage, though some are.

FWIW, I believe that marriage is an irrelevant institution propagated by religion that gays should be proud and grateful to be exempted from. People like me have to worry about common law when there's cohabitation, and if I did get married for some reason (most likely to gain access to a tax incentive which could very easily change under any given Congress) I'd expose myself to the financial risks of a divorce later on. And that's not to say that I dislike the social aspects that traditionally come with marriage--the fact is that I don't really care to waste my time by pursuing any kind of relationship without long-term potential--it's just that I can achieve my goals outside of traditional judeo-christian constructs.

^And there you have, it someone's God talked to you. Now you can go on Fox News as my prophet and reveal the Truth the nation.

[lockmat]

If it was the God of the Bible, would he tell you to do something inconsistent with his commandments/teachings?

Would you expect his followers to believe you if what he told you was inconsistent?

Even if you were saying it was Allah or some other religions god, would you expect people to believe you if the revelation was inconsistent with their beliefs and teachings from their source/book of truth?

As a parallel, if some stranger came to you and said your parents told them to do something to you that was totally inconsistent with the character you know they have, would you believe them? You know your parents so you would know if what they're saying is true.

If you were saying it was the God of the bible and it was consistent with his commandments/teachings, then sure, Christians might believe you. But then again, the Bible does teach the principle of not adding or taking away anything from it.

Just a couple of things to think about.

[TheNiche]

If it was the God of the Bible, would he tell you to do something inconsistent with his commandments/teachings?

Would you expect his followers to believe you if what he told you was inconsistent?

Even if you were saying it was Allah or some other religions god, would you expect people to believe you if the revelation was inconsistent with their beliefs and teachings from their source/book of truth?

As a parallel, if some stranger came to you and said your parents told them to do something to you that was totally inconsistent with the character you know they have, would you believe them? You know your parents so you would know if what they're saying is true.

If you were saying it was the God of the bible and it was consistent with his commandments/teachings, then sure, Christians might believe you. But then again, the Bible does teach the principle of not adding or taking away anything from it.

Just a couple of things to think about.

Yes (and this is fertile territory, so think about it), no, no, and no.

New Testament God is very different from Old Testament God. And the very fact of the New Testament (never mind the apocryphal texts) is evidence of inconsistency by way of adding or taking away from the Bible.

[lockmat]

Yes (and this is fertile territory, so think about it), no, no, and no.

New Testament God is very different from Old Testament God. And the very fact of the New Testament (never mind the apocryphal texts) is evidence of inconsistency by way of adding or taking away from the Bible.

How is he different? Are you thinking along the lines that he was an angry God in the OT and a loving God in the NT?

[TheNiche]

How is he different? Are you thinking along the lines that he was an angry God in the OT and a loving God in the NT?

Yeah, that's the short of it. The character of the entity's actions changed rather abruptly. No more global floods, no more destruction of sin cities or turning those that looked at the blast into pillars of salt, no more commanding followers to sacrifice their children in his name, no more destruction of his followers' livelihood just to make an argumentative point to Satan. He's a really high-strung, angry kind of guy in the Old Testament. ...and then, not so much.

[sevfiv]

As someone who grew up without much exposure to religion, the OP's example would yes, in the DSM-IV, probably come up with something near a 297.1 (delusional psychotic episode sorta thing).

Of course, as I started seeing more of the world, I realized there were WAY more religious people out there than I could have ever imagined, and it scared me.

All I know is that religion (I'm talking organized religion, not individual spirituality) is a learned thing, people subscribe to it, and I don't personally get it. But if it is a therapeutic and meditative exercise for people, then that's great.

[Highway6]

What if I went on TV tomorrow and claimed that God came to me in my dream and wanted me to deliver the message that some people being born gay is normal and part of his divine plan and that gays should be allowed to get married... would gay marriage have to automatically be made legal... b/c God said so? How would people know for sure whether or not God did talk to me... why would most automatically think it's not true even though many believe in God and believe you can pray to God and that God hears your prayers and all that stuff...?

If someone went on the air and claimed God told him gay marriage is of the devil and that all gay people should be burned at the stake..... you'd probably be pretty darn glad the world, Christian and others, would dismiss him as a wacko.

[memebag]

If someone went on the air and claimed God told him gay marriage is of the devil and that all gay people should be burned at the stake..... you'd probably be pretty darn glad the world, Christian and others, would dismiss him as a wacko.

Really? Because some wacko wrote that in the Bible. See Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

A lot of Christians believe that isn't the word of just any wacko, but the literal word of their god.

[editor]

Ok, no, God didn't really talk to me, at least not today. But I was watching the movie Evan Almighty today while I was home... I have seen it before and it's a really cute movie. In it Steve Carell plays Evan who is told by God, played by Morgan Freeman, that he needs to build an arc because a flood is coming. So anyways, after some convincing he begins building the arc and everyone in town calls him crazy even though he tells them that God told him to do this.

We live in a Nation where many people consider themselves "Christians" and they believe in God and they pray to God and believe all that stuff... yadda, yadda, yadda. If I were to say tomorrow that God spoke to me and he wants me to build a big boat and I start building it... a lot of people, many of them "Christians", would probably think I should be locked up in an institution. Why is that? What if I went on TV tomorrow and claimed that God came to me in my dream and wanted me to deliver the message that some people being born gay is normal and part of his divine plan and that gays should be allowed to get married... would gay marriage have to automatically be made legal... b/c God said so? How would people know for sure whether or not God did talk to me... why would most automatically think it's not true even though many believe in God and believe you can pray to God and that God hears your prayers and all that stuff...?

Long night at work... I have some downtime... just something I was thinking about.

I think the problem is, as it often is, that you're generalizing people's actions and reactions.

If you said tomorrow that God spoke to you, the reaction you'd get would depend on who you're talking to. The Internet Tough Guys would likely ridicule you, that's a given. But what about your family? What about your very good friends? What about people at work? What about a neighborhood priest? I don't think you should assume that people would think you're crazy. I would think that most would want to know more before making a judgement.

If someone I knew well told me that God spoke to them, my first question wouldn't be, "Are you crazy?" It would be, "What did he say?"

If you believed that God told you to go stick your head in a pig, then I might think you're off your meds. If God told you that you should be nicer to other people, I wouldn't make the same assumption. If God told you to build an ark, I'd want more information.

There are people who believe that God speaks to them every day, with varying definitions of the word "speaks." For some people, it's outward signs. For others, it's inward feelings. For some, a beautiful calming sunset at the end of a bad day at work is God telling them that everything will be all right. It doesn't make these people crazy, it's just how they practice their faith.

I think the answer to a lot of the hypothetical questions you posed above is, "nothing." It's your money, go build yourself an ark, as long as you're not hurting anyone, who cares? If you blew your paycheck on a 30 second TV spot to tell people that God told you being homosexual is OK, then good for you. It's your money and you didn't hurt anyone. It's no different than any other ad. 99.999% of the world would simply move on with their lives. I don't think you'd get the persecution you'd imagine.

As an aside, I once saw this line in someone's .sig and sometimes I use it: "How come when we talk to God, it's prayer; but when God talks to us it's crazy?

[Heights2Bastrop]

I think people confuse god with religion. God is god, and can

[Highway6]

Really? Because some wacko wrote that in the Bible. See Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

A lot of Christians believe that isn't the word of just any wacko, but the literal word of their god.

The Bible says lots of things, some of which are believed more literally than others, by some people... But believing something and acting on that belief are two different things.

Regardless, you just proved my point... even for those Christians that believe literally your passage above, when was the last time one stood up and said "follow me, time to kill gay people" .....and it actually worked. How much support did he have? And if he was laughed out of the building by sane people, regular Christians, and anyone else... what chance does someone have that says God talked to them with the same message ?

Of course... in the original example.. it was a gay person saying God talked to him to spread the word that gay is okay. One would assume if he willing to accept that God really just talked to him.. he's either Christian or gonna be a really quick convert... and if that happens.. he has to contend with your Leviticus passage himself.... so let's hope he's not the literal type.

[TheNiche]

The Bible says lots of things, some of which are believed more literally than others, by some people... But believing something and acting on that belief are two different things.

Regardless, you just proved my point... even for those Christians that believe literally your passage above, when was the last time one stood up and said "follow me, time to kill gay people" .....and it actually worked. How much support did he have? And if he was laughed out of the building by sane people, regular Christians, and anyone else... what chance does someone have that says God talked to them with the same message ?

Locally, a year or two back, there were the teenagers in Spring where one of them said something to the effect of "hey, let's go shove a pipe up our gay classmate's asshole" .....and they did it.

Clearly there is persecution, and I don't excuse it, nor do I deny it. But if your point was that it was uncommon even among Christians who read the Bible literally (or very close to it), that is also true.

[memebag]

Regardless, you just proved my point... even for those Christians that believe literally your passage above, when was the last time one stood up and said "follow me, time to kill gay people" .....and it actually worked.

I don't know. I know a lot of them say the Bible is the literal word of God and they are obliged to obey it. It seems inconsistent for them not to kill gay people on a regular basis.

Are there any Christians out there who can tell us what is stopping you?

[Highway6]

Locally, a year or two back, there were the teenagers in Spring where one of them said something to the effect of "hey, let's go shove a pipe up our gay classmate's asshole" .....and they did it.

Clearly there is persecution, and I don't excuse it, nor do I deny it. But if your point was that it was uncommon even among Christians who read the Bible literally (or very close to it), that is also true.

Yes.. there are wackos.. and yes there are persecutions. I'm not sure how tied in the Spring incident was the Leviticus passage. I don't remember reading in the stories the "Remember Leviticus" war cry as they charged that poor guy. We don't know what the root of their anger towards gays was.. or even if they held enough anger already towards this guy for other reasons and the gay aspect was just the tipping point. So I'm not sure how much religious persecution this one incident was.

Regardless.. the maybe-persecution happened... and it was properly found revolting by all, Christians included.

[editor]

Let's keep this discussion on topic, or the thread will be closed.

[Highway6]

I don't know. I know a lot of them say the Bible is the literal word of God and they are obliged to obey it. It seems inconsistent for them not to kill gay people on a regular basis.

Are there any Christians out there who can tell us what is stopping you?

I just did a quick google search on the % of Chrisitans that believe the Bible is literal.. came up with roughly 1/3.

That is significant. However, there is still a difference in what you believe and how you act and even in what you say you believe vs what you believe when reality hits the fan.

The other 2/3 of Christians believe the Bible is a guide.. that the Word is inspired by God.

[TheNiche]

Let's keep this discussion on topic, or the thread will be closed.

Was that a preemptive warning or are we actually all that off topic? I mean, it isn't like we're discussing the comparative merits of Houston vs. Dallas rap music in a thread about a new retail center or anything.

[Highway6]

Let's keep this discussion on topic, or the thread will be closed.

If the original post was concerning following God voice.... how is talking about beliefs, and literalness of the Bible off-topic ??

If the original post used the context of gays to address the above concern.... how have we strayed off topic ?

[TheNiche]

Yes.. there are wackos.. and yes there are persecutions. I'm not sure how tied in the Spring incident was the Leviticus passage. I don't remember reading in the stories the "Remember Leviticus" war cry as they charged that poor guy. We don't know what the root of their anger towards gays was.. or even if they held enough anger already towards this guy for other reasons and the gay aspect was just the tipping point. So I'm not sure how much religious persecution this one incident was.

Regardless.. the maybe-persecution happened... and it was properly found revolting by all, Christians included.

You stated that there are wackos and persecutions. Then you stated that everyone finds it revolting. These statements are in conflict with one another.

[editor]

If the original post was concerning following God voice.... how is talking about beliefs, and literalness of the Bible off-topic ??

Because the original post was about God talking to him, not about interpreting the Bible and not about a crime that happened in suburban Houston.

[Fringe]

Haven't talked to God but have talked to Jesus a lot. He mows my yard every week.

[editor]

Really? Because some wacko wrote that in the Bible. See Leviticus 20:13:

If you can't participate in this discussion in a respectful manner, you will be removed from this discussion.

[TheNiche]

Because the original post was about God talking to him, not about interpreting the Bible and not about a crime that happened in suburban Houston.

The mention of the crime was an example used to validate a point; the crime is not itself a topic of discussion.

Also, you're vastly oversimplifying the nature of the OP's subject matter.

[Highway6]

You stated that there are wackos and persecutions. Then you stated that everyone finds it revolting. These statements are in conflict with one another.

The fact that there are wackos in the world, and the fact that there are persecutions, whether they are religious, gender, racial, political, etc, in the world was a general statement of acceptance.

You're right.. maybe not everyone found the Spring incident revolting... but by everyone, i was referring to the group we were talking about.. Christians that believe Leviticus literally...... not the wackos that gay-bash for non religious reasons, or the wackos that find murder, pain, and mayhem amusing

[editor]

The mention of the crime was an example used to validate a point; the crime is not itself a topic of discussion.

Also, you're vastly oversimplifying the nature of the OP's subject matter.

A necessity. These sorts of threads go bad very easily since not everyone on HAIF (or the rest of the internet for that

matter) is capable of having an intelligent theological discussion.

All I ask is that people think before they post and not let this thread devolve the way so many other religious discussions have on HAIF.

[memebag]

If you can't participate in this discussion in a respectful manner, you will be removed from this discussion.

Then I don't understand what you mean by "respect". The term "wacko" was taken from Highway6's post, and used to demonstrate that not every Christian shares his view. I meant no disrespect, and didn't realize I had disrespected anyone.

[editor]

Then I don't understand what you mean by "respect". The term "wacko" was taken from Highway6's post, and used to demonstrate that not every Christian shares his view. I meant no disrespect, and didn't realize I had disrespected anyone.

I have too much work to do today to play high school debate team pendant with you.

[Heights2Bastrop]

I have too much work to do today to play high school debate team pendant with you.

I just talked with god, and she said she'd take it from here, and if these guys don't behave, she'll just wrath this thread up.