Sprawling developments

[marc]

Ok- Hey everybody. i think SA is missing a fantastic opportunity to build vertical in a concentrated area during this time of growth. i realize that SA's city borders allow for A LOT of sprawling projects, but why not choose a section of the city and devote energy into creating a vertical urban oasis? i feel this may become a missed opportunity. Any thoughts?

i am thinking Atlanta-like area devoted to residential highrises in a cluster to give some sort of iconic definition to the city.

m.

[TheNiche]

Ok- Hey everybody. i think SA is missing a fantastic opportunity to build vertical in a concentrated area during this time of growth. i realize that SA's city borders allow for A LOT of sprawling projects, but why not choose a section of the city and devote energy into creating a vertical urban oasis? i feel this may become a missed opportunity. Any thoughts?

i am thinking Atlanta-like area devoted to residential highrises in a cluster to give some sort of iconic definition to the city.

m.

A good candidate neighborhood would be in the vicinity of Pearl Brewery, and extending right across SH 281 to the Broadway corridor, where existing structures are mostly warehouses and most of them are not of significant historical value. The surrounding neighborhoods are already a fair bit quirky, and with the extension of the Riverwalk northward, it creates a pedestrian gateway from there into downtown SA.

There have already been a fair number of attempts by developers to densify that area, however most have floundered. Housing prices are very low in San Antonio, even less than Houston. But materials costs are basically the same as anywhere else. This creates a problem for that area where density is concerned. There's just too little demand for very expensive housing to justify the cost of density, and to the extent that there is a niche market, it is being satisfied by a handful of projects in the downtown area. Additionally, the vast majority of employment growth is occurring in San Antonio's suburbs. It isn't like Houston or Dallas, where a developer can argue that the three new office buildings going up within a few blocks will fill up with employees that'll increase the demand for nearby housing.

But perhaps San Antonio's biggest problem is that it isn't sexy (like Austin) and it doesn't have a compelling economic story (like Houston). Highrises in San Antonio are too expensive for most local banks to finance, but it's also very difficult to get national lenders interested.

EDIT: For the record, I like San Antonio both personally and from a developer's perspective...but the evidence would seem to indicate that my like for SA is analogous to guys that like hairy women. I'm in the minority.

[MaggieMay]

Ok- Hey everybody. i think SA is missing a fantastic opportunity to build vertical in a concentrated area during this time of growth. i realize that SA's city borders allow for A LOT of sprawling projects, but why not choose a section of the city and devote energy into creating a vertical urban oasis? i feel this may become a missed opportunity. Any thoughts?

i am thinking Atlanta-like area devoted to residential highrises in a cluster to give some sort of iconic definition to the city.

m.

TheNiche has explained some of the practical reasons San Antonio isn't going vertical.

If we're speaking about "iconic definition"--San Antonio has the Alamo. Why should the city try to become more like Atlanta? Isn't that Houston's job?

[crunchtastic]

But perhaps San Antonio's biggest problem is that it isn't sexy (like Austin) and it doesn't have a compelling economic story (like Houston). Highrises in San Antonio are too expensive for most local banks to finance, but it's also very difficult to get national lenders interested.

EDIT: For the record, I like San Antonio both personally and from a developer's perspective...but the evidence would seem to indicate that my like for SA is analogous to guys that like hairy women. I'm in the minority.

There is still a prevailing attitude among locals that moving up means moving out. Having worked for years among the largest concentration of well paid/educated people in the city (the usaa compound) the general attitude is 'why would anyone want to live downtown???' Of course among transplants and young singles and yups it is changing, but slowly. Tough going to densifying SA-- unti they get a much bigger influx of out of towners with a predispotion to urban living (as opposed to military retirees). Or the city's demographics change pretty radically in terms of educational level and income.

For the record I like SA too. Hairy women, not so much.

[memebag]

Wait. did TheNiche just say he likes hairy women?

[TheNiche]

For the record I like SA too. Hairy women, not so much.

You like your women bald? Like those hairless chihuahuas?

Wait. did TheNiche just say he likes hairy women?

Depends on the location of the hair. Bald-headed women don't appeal much, but then neither do women with mustaches.

...seriously though, in context with post #2, the answer is a categorical no.

[RedScare]

I'm still stuck on the image of ATLANTA as the pardigm of density.

[marc]

TheNiche has explained some of the practical reasons San Antonio isn't going vertical.

If we're speaking about "iconic definition"--San Antonio has the Alamo. Why should the city try to become more like Atlanta? Isn't that Houston's job?

That's a good one. Yes, about the Houston comment, but i see H-town as already surpassing Atlanta in the concept of multiple urban areas, because they already exist, right? i actually see H-town as a mini-LA when it comes to the pockets of urban areas throughout the great city. i am no big fan of SA i must say. It does have the River Walk, BUT, that's about it.... well, not really the only thing, BUT i am just a bigger fan of Austin and Houston. i suppose it is what i know the most.

Anyway, i was coming from the perspective that now SA is #2 in pop. in TX and thanks to Dallas and Houston, i suppose i have a sort of image in my head what a large TX city should look like- SA ain't it.

m.

[marc]

I'm still stuck on the image of ATLANTA as the pardigm of density.

What i meant about that was i feel Atlanta has taken a relatively sparse area and transformed it into a really nice area for those who like a more compact space to live in with new amenities, convenience, etc. Honestly, it was just the first city to come to mind. i certainly was not using it as a paradigm of GOOD urban density.

m.

[TheNiche]

Anyway, i was coming from the perspective that now SA is #2 in pop. in TX and thanks to Dallas and Houston, i suppose i have a sort of image in my head what a large TX city should look like- SA ain't it.

The incorporated area of the City of San Antonio is #2 in population, but that's only because, like the City of Houston, it covers a large geographic area. San Antonio is #3 in population when you compare the rankings by metro area, but not by all that much. For all intents and purposes, Austin and San Antonio are about the same size, just as for all intents and purposes, Houston and Dallas are about the same size.

[crunchtastic]

Are Atlanta's water supply/drought issues severe? Are they aquifer dependent? I remember hearing stories a couple of summers ago about the water situation.

I never saw the appeal, frankly. Dated a guy long distance for a while who lived right near Bucktown. My impression of Atlanta was it had all the ex-urban charm of Houston, but the people seemed very insular. The inner city area seemed more spread out and not as interesting as here. ( Although I did really enjoy being able to take the metro from the airport to the station near his place. ) Just a footnote, but my goodness, all those southern frat boys love their strippers. Plus, the Braves fans suck.

Hmm, Mexican Hairless? Not my thing. I guess The Niche and I have something in common.

edit: Buckhead, not Bucktown. (.......just got back from New Orleans)

[marc]

The incorporated area of the City of San Antonio is #2 in population, but that's only because, like the City of Houston, it covers a large geographic area. San Antonio is #3 in population when you compare the rankings by metro area, but not by all that much. For all intents and purposes, Austin and San Antonio are about the same size, just as for all intents and purposes, Houston and Dallas are about the same size.

Thanks. i did not know that. Question- Dallas and H-town being about the same size...does that incorporate FtW with Dallas or just Dallas itself? Thanks for all of your observations over the years. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? i am always impressed by the stuff you know regarding development.

m.

[TheNiche]

Thanks. i did not know that. Question- Dallas and H-town being about the same size...does that incorporate FtW with Dallas or just Dallas itself?

The counties considered part of Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land MSA and Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington MSA are each shown in red. Micropolitan areas are shown as other colors.

Thanks for all of your observations over the years. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? i am always impressed by the stuff you know regarding development.

m.

I used to be employed and work for developers of big projects. Now I am not employed and am myself a developer of small projects.

[marc]

^^^ Thanks. Much luck and success to you! How "small" is small?

m.

[TheNiche]

^^^ Thanks. Much luck and success to you! How "small" is small?

m.

Less than 10,000 square feet at a time.