William List Mansion At 514 Villa Dr.

[pookrat]

I searched the site but could not find anything. If this topic has been discussed, please shoot me a PM to the thread and close this one.

Someone on another forum was asking about and talking about the Seabrook Murder Mansion aka Toddville Road Mansion aka List Mansion and was looking for more information. Supposedly it was haunted and a pretty nasty murder occured there back in the 70's. Many urban legends surrounded it. I found the following site that as a little tidbit on the story which interested me so I thoughh I would post up here to get the real scoop. Couldn't really find much more. Anyone got any pictures of the place and or credible stories or sources for more information? Who was Bill List?

http://www.texasghosthunters.com/stories/east/list_mansion.html

Thanks ahead of time.

[Native Montrosian]

From the Chronicle archives November 1985. Try Dogpile in lieu of Google for esoteric stuff.

The Street That Led To Murder

[HTX]

Mansion was not really the right word for it. Think Holiday Inn Holidrome and you will get a better picture. I'm pretty sure it was torn down and the land subdivided into lots. I don't know if anyone ever actually built a house on it.

[bmil128]

I remember seeing a retrospective story about that place on Ch 26 in the early 90's and driving by it not too much later; it was a very creepy looking place.

[bred]

There is a terribly cheesy movie that was filmed there just before it was torn down called "The House on Todville Road". I bought it on VHS for about 50 cents from a video store that was going out of business in Clear Lake a few years ago. There is no reason to watch this movie, other than to see exactly how the mansion looked:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110065/

I went inside the place once before it was torn down. Ironically, I entered through the garage and up the staircase, and was unaware that the murder occurred in exactly that spot until I read the Chronicle story above. The place scared the heck out of me, and I only made it into a few of the apartments before I decided to get out of there. I'm trying to find some pics online but have been unsuccessful so far, and I have no idea what I did with the video tape.

[EastEnd Susan]

I got onto the property in the early 90's and took a couple of pictures. I'll scan and post them as soon as I find them. I used to have the original of the chronicle article. It had quite a few photos. Some color and some black and white. It showed how the kids tore the place up before killing Mr. List. I remember photos of food thrown on the walls, a knife sticking out of the wall and plants thrown into the pool. Very eerie.

[FilioScotia]

I got onto the property in the early 90's and took a couple of pictures. I'll scan and post them as soon as I find them. I used to have the original of the chronicle article. It had quite a few photos. Some color and some black and white. It showed how the kids tore the place up before killing Mr. List. I remember photos of food thrown on the walls, a knife sticking out of the wall and plants thrown into the pool. Very eerie.

That Chronicle story is one of the most depressing and haunting I've ever read. We all know there are street people, and street kids who survive by selling sex to anybody who'll buy. That's a very dark world, but I don't think I've ever seen it depicted in such stark and realistic imagery as the writer of that article accomplished.

Anyone who pays even a little attention to what's going on around them knows there are children who're thrown away by their parents and/or guardians and forced to survive any way they can. We also know there are adults who live among us, and take advantage of the street kids' situation to satisfy their own perversions.

None of that is new, but seeing how close their world is to ours, and seeing it portrayed with such terrifying clarity forces us to know that "there but for the grace of God go I."

Hell has no circles low enough for people like Bill List.

And if this isn't enough to send you into terminal depression, consider the fact that absolutely nothing has changed in the Montrose area since List was killed in 1984, or since that Chronicle article was written in 1985.

Check out this article in TODAY'S Chronicle. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...es/6262563.html

It's about an aging Montrose hustler who was there in the early 80s, and who probably knew the guys who killed Bill List.

Edited February 15, 2009 by FilioScotia

[EastEnd Susan]

This is the back of the mansion that faces the bay. The front looked exactly the same as the back. There was a pool in between the front and back buildings with tons of plants and a walkway over the pool.

This is the glass covered area in between the front and back portions of the mansion. It contained the pool.

This is where Mr. List was shot. The partial door visible at the bottom right is the doorway to the garage. Smiley was waiting at the top of the spiral staircase with a shotgun. Mr. List was killed as he came through the garage door.

[NenaE]

Wow, how strange, looks like a prison with fancy ironwork...when was this built?

[bred]

Wow, how strange, looks like a prison with fancy ironwork...when was this built?

It was built sometime in the mid to late 70's. It looked even scarier from the street, with the huge driveway and the way it just rose up out of the ground, backing up to the bay. You can see one pretty fuzzy image of it on Historic Aerials from 1981. If you use the "compare years" feature, you can see that later a small street with homes was built on the site. Nice homes, too.

http://www.historicaerials.com?poi=4176

[EastEnd Susan]

It was built sometime in the mid to late 70's. It looked even scarier from the street, with the huge driveway and the way it just rose up out of the ground, backing up to the bay. You can see one pretty fuzzy image of it on Historic Aerials from 1981. If you use the "compare years" feature, you can see that later a small street with homes was built on the site. Nice homes, too.

http://www.historicaerials.com?poi=4176

That street on the property is part of the original driveway. The homes that now sit north of the street are on what used to be a very long reflection pond. Sure would'nt want to live there.

[EastEnd Susan]

Just learned something a little odd. Bill List was the biological father of Ron Carlton. Ron was the brother of Debbie Thornton, one of the victims in the Karla Faye pick axe murder. Bill left when Ron was three and he was raised by his step father. The police thought Bill List might have hired someone to kill Debbie because she was to testify against him for tax evasion. Not sure if he was also Debbies father.

[bred]

Just learned something a little odd. Bill List was the biological father of Ron Carlton. Ron was the brother of Debbie Thornton, one of the victims in the Karla Faye pick axe murder. Bill left when Ron was three and he was raised by his step father. The police thought Bill List might have hired someone to kill Debbie because she was to testify against him for tax evasion. Not sure if he was also Debbies father.

I found out the same thing.

Also, somebody on another board came up with "Smiley's" prison information and believes he is now paroled and living in League City, since a people search they did turned up an Elbert E. Homan, age 42, listed at a League City residence. The TDCJ link is broken, so does anybody know how to verify this? I can't find anything. Homan's info is below:

SID Number: 03258285

TDCJ Number: 00401830

Name: HOMAN,ELBERT ERVIN

Race: W

Sex: M

Age: 42

Maximum Sentence Date: LIFE SENTENCE

Current Facility: POLUNSKY

Projected Release Date: LIFE SENTENCE

Parole Eligibility Date: 2004-09-02

[marketingwiz]

Just learned something a little odd. Bill List was the biological father of Ron Carlton. Ron was the brother of Debbie Thornton, one of the victims in the Karla Faye pick axe murder. Bill left when Ron was three and he was raised by his step father. The police thought Bill List might have hired someone to kill Debbie because she was to testify against him for tax evasion. Not sure if he was also Debbies father.

I read on-line that Bill List was indeed Debbie Thornton's father. The article pointed out how both father and daughter had died violent deaths. Just 'Google' Debbie Thornton or Carla Faye Baker.

[FilioScotia]

I read on-line that Bill List was indeed Debbie Thornton's father. The article pointed out how both father and daughter had died violent deaths. Just 'Google' Debbie Thornton or Carla Faye Baker.

Actually, the killer's name was Karla Faye Tucker. I have no idea where that other name came from, but it's out there in so many places that it does turn up in a Google search.

Edited February 17, 2009 by FilioScotia

[marketingwiz]

Actually, the killer's name was Karla Faye Tucker. I have no idea where that other name came from, but it's out there in so many places that it does turn up in a Google search.

That's it, Tucker. Thanks for the heads up, Filio. Boy would I love to see the photos that accompanied the '85 article in its original format. I've emailed the Chronicle to see if there is anyway to include the photos with the archived feature story. I hope to hear back soon.

[sevfiv]

I found out the same thing.

Also, somebody on another board came up with "Smiley's" prison information and believes he is now paroled and living in League City, since a people search they did turned up an Elbert E. Homan, age 42, listed at a League City residence. The TDCJ link is broken, so does anybody know how to verify this? I can't find anything. Homan's info is below:

I also found a League City residence, but there is no date attached to it (probably the same address found by the poster in the other forum). As of today, the home is owned by a Donna Cones.

[EastEnd Susan]

I also found a League City residence, but there is no date attached to it (probably the same address found by the poster in the other forum). As of today, the home is owned by a Donna Cones.

I have walked my dogs past that house every morning since 2001. Yikes!

[missmsry]

Covenant House is a joke and should be closed down since it is being used as a juvie jail and only promotes prostitution and drugs in the neighborhood.

Edited February 18, 2009 by missmsry

[pookrat]

Thanks for the Pics Susan. That place is hideous. And thats crazy that he was somehow connected to the Karla Faye Tucker crud too...

[marketingwiz]

Thanks for the Pics Susan. That place is hideous. And thats crazy that he was somehow connected to the Karla Faye Tucker crud too...

That place has 'evil' written all over it. I don't think I'd even want to step inside. And someone earlier in this thread mentioned the existence of a strange bathroom that looked more like a locker room with toilets lined up against the wall. Well Mr. List was quite the sexual deviant, as it turns out, although he claims he never made anyone do anything they didn't want to do. One of his regular house boys was quoted as saying that he vomited after being asked and paid to watch List in action with some fresh meat he picked up in Montrose. I'm guessing it was some pretty hard-core stuff. Check it out online.

[rsb320]

It finally hit me; I remember this place on Toddville Rd. now. I always looked at it curiously and then came to the conclusion that it was an indoor swimming pool.

I'm surprised that I never knew of this story since I lived in Montrose and regularly fished at Pine Gully Park Pier (off Toddville) during this timeframe.

[EastEnd Susan]

That place has 'evil' written all over it. I don't think I'd even want to step inside. And someone earlier in this thread mentioned the existence of a strange bathroom that looked more like a locker room with toilets lined up against the wall. Well Mr. List was quite the sexual deviant, as it turns out, although he claims he never made anyone do anything they didn't want to do. One of his regular house boys was quoted as saying that he vomited after being asked and paid to watch List in action with some fresh meat he picked up in Montrose. I'm guessing it was some pretty hard-core stuff. Check it out online.

Evil is right! I felt strange for days after I went there. I could'nt get the place off my mind. Climbing up on the wall and getting the pic of the staircase really gave me the heebie geebies. I was feet from where the murder took place and the atmosphere was just chilling. I felt like I was being watched the entire time. I had taken a brick from the front entrance as some sort of macabre souvenier but took it back and tossed it in the yard. No bad karma for me!

[durtisouth1968]

i see people still talk about the murder mansion, my name is william swan and i lived in the mansion back in 1994 with some friends for six months as care takers to show the property to people interested in buying the place.the place was pretty trashed but we fixed up the front of the house to live in you could not live in the back of the house.we fixed the pool so we could swim,and yes it did have a lockeroom bathroom next to the pool also a bar room next to that with a bar and a stone floor in it. the house was trash after the murder by the police thinking bill had hidden money in the walls and jewels that were never found.the boys that killed bill,which were four of them.smiley got life,one got 15 years, one got probation and the youngest they let go cause he was the reason they killed list. it was really cool living in the mansion cause i never would have thought that i would let all these kids in to see the place.we had a few parties there and 2 hundred people would show up .as the house being haunted i really could not say yes there where times you felt creepy and you thought there might be someone watching you ,and on a sunny day by the stairs coming up from the garage you could see the outline of a body on the concrete floor where billed died cause he layed there for two days before anyone found him . i thought maybe some of this info might help

[bred]

i see people still talk about the murder mansion, my name is william swan and i lived in the mansion back in 1994 with some friends for six months as care takers to show the property to people interested in buying the place.the place was pretty trashed but we fixed up the front of the house to live in you could not live in the back of the house.we fixed the pool so we could swim,and yes it did have a lockeroom bathroom next to the pool also a bar room next to that with a bar and a stone floor in it. the house was trash after the murder by the police thinking bill had hidden money in the walls and jewels that were never found.the boys that killed bill,which were four of them.smiley got life,one got 15 years, one got probation and the youngest they let go cause he was the reason they killed list. it was really cool living in the mansion cause i never would have thought that i would let all these kids in to see the place.we had a few parties there and 2 hundred people would show up .as the house being haunted i really could not say yes there where times you felt creepy and you thought there might be someone watching you ,and on a sunny day by the stairs coming up from the garage you could see the outline of a body on the concrete floor where billed died cause he layed there for two days before anyone found him . i thought maybe some of this info might help

Thanks for all the info, durtisouth1968! I've become really interested in this building again since this thread started. While moving this weekend, I found my VHS copy of "The House on Todville Road". Now I just have to find a VCR to watch it on.

If you are interested in seeing the inside of this building, and a cheesy low budget movie, I would suggest picking this one up:

http://www.amazon.com/House-Todville-Road-...d/dp/6303948944

The plot has nothing to do with what actually happened there, but you can see what everybody has been talking about if you never had the chance to visit this building. Again, this is just on VHS.

[Hanno]

There is a Girl Scout camp down the road from where the List mansion was located. We use to pass it whenever we went to the camp during the 80's... The place was so bizarre looking that it always creeped us girls out. I remember just hating that we had to drive by it at night, since we always left on Fridays after school to go to the camps.

Now, knowing what happened there with the boys, and then the murder on top of that, I can't believe how close we were to it all.

H.

[angelsummers]

I happen to know the woman that bought the spiral staircase from the List Mansion and now has it in her house. Her husband and her bought the staircase when they were tearing down the mansion.

I was there yesterday as she is moving to Denver and is selling everything that she can not take with her and took a pic of the staircase as it is now.

When the homeowner told me that it is was the actual staircase where the murder occurred I just had to take a pic. When we were high school in the early 90's we always passed by the "Murder Mansion" because it was so spooky looking.

Just thought I would share this random info. Hope you enjoy the info.

Edited March 27, 2009 by angelsummers

[bellymonster2005]

I grew up right down the street and know for a fact that this place burned to the ground in 97 or 98. I was on my way to a party and saw the whole thing. It wasn't until then that they decided to do something with that awful place. And I am so glad that it happened; it was a drug haven and drew rediculous attention that nobody around wanted. We have a group on Facebook and everyone shares pictures and stories. That place was as terrible as List was.

[marketingwiz]

I happen to know the woman that bought the spiral staircase from the List Mansion and now has it in her house. Her husband and her bought the staircase when they were tearing down the mansion.

I was there yesterday as she is moving to Denver and is selling everything that she can not take with her and took a pic of the staircase as it is now.

When the homeowner told me that it is was the actual staircase where the murder occurred I just had to take a pic. When we were high school in the early 90's we always passed by the "Murder Mansion" because it was so spooky looking.

Just thought I would share this random info. Hope you enjoy the info.

How macabre...... I'd have to have that thing torn out, no offense to your friend.

[angelsummers]

How macabre...... I'd have to have that thing torn out, no offense to your friend.

No offense taken at all but the owner is actually going to try and also sell the staircase. I don't know who would buy it. I just wanted to share the info about her having the staircase since I found it so odd and yet interesting at the same time and I thought others would probably be curious.