Train From Houston To Galveston?

[mls1202]

Surprised nobody has commented on the fact that the Chron article claims that the commuter rail will be done by 2030!!!!

Why does this seem ludicrous? Even swapping out the track cannot take that long. Maybe I'm just impatient, but I will have lost interest by then.

[TheNiche]

Surprised nobody has commented on the fact that the Chron article claims that the commuter rail will be done by 2030!!!!

Why does this seem ludicrous? Even swapping out the track cannot take that long. Maybe I'm just impatient, but I will have lost interest by then.

I agree, the article was very poorly written and probably contained factual errors. What's new? :closedeyes:

[T 2 THA C]

I agree, the article was very poorly written and probably contained factual errors. What's new? :closedeyes:

I agree because It did state that the first operations would begin in 2012, so 18 years to get it running in Houston is a little far fetched IMO.

[maceo9903]

I have a question. I hope that you guys (and/or gals) will forgive my obvious ignornace towards mass transit planning and just humor me for a moment. Why cant they just go ahead and build the system all at once and just get it over with. The longer they wait the more Houston will fall behind the curve in it's mass transit options...especially with the regions expected population growth in the coming years. Also, wouldn't it be cheaper to do it now while it will cost 1 billion (just a random number I picked for all phases to be done now) instead of waiting a few years and it costing 1.8 billion by then?

[ricco67]

Also, wouldn't it be cheaper to do it now while it will cost 1 billion (just a random number I picked for all phases to be done now) instead of waiting a few years and it costing 1.8 billion by then?

The same reason why your boss or some people you deal with on authority hem and haw on various plans. They don't want to make a decision they believe MIGHT be wrong.

I hope they do this, but i hope it's done RIGHT. The Galveston/Houston corridor is heavily used as it is with freight traffic, I hope they find some way to do it properly and I'm curious what the exact plan is.

With the variety of stops that are planned, I hope they buy cars with capacities that are appropriate for the projected numbers, and I have a feeling "commuter" cars won't exactly cut it if it's totally packed.

[TheNiche]

I have a question. I hope that you guys (and/or gals) will forgive my obvious ignornace towards mass transit planning and just humor me for a moment. Why cant they just go ahead and build the system all at once and just get it over with. The longer they wait the more Houston will fall behind the curve in it's mass transit options...especially with the regions expected population growth in the coming years. Also, wouldn't it be cheaper to do it now while it will cost 1 billion (just a random number I picked for all phases to be done now) instead of waiting a few years and it costing 1.8 billion by then?

The most important reason is that federal funding won't take place all at once because we've got to compete each year with other cities for what limited amounts are budgeted by congress, and congress is on the whole interested in equitable distribution of funds back to their constituencies.

Another reason is that if you're expecting a region to grow steadily over the course of several decades, it is better to grow your infrastructure to match population growth, rather than expend resources all at once up front. This is supporting a concept of the time value of money. On a related note, the reason that cost increases over time usually don't matter is that they are inflationary. In the long term, inflation has zero economic impact.

[Slick Vik]

The fact we had a Galveston-Houston rail 100 years ago but not now just shows how the attitude of this country has shifted towards greed over time.

[fatesdisastr]

The fact we had a Galveston-Houston rail 100 years ago but not now just shows how the attitude of this country has shifted towards greed over time.

 

Greed = capitalism and true capitalism is the most efficient way to increase overall prosperity. Since we no longer have true capitalism but crony capitalism, things have become distorted.

 

I think I'm missing your point as to how having a railroad 100 years ago to Galveston that is no longer in service has to do with greed. 

[RedScare]

Greed = capitalism and true capitalism is the most efficient way to increase overall prosperity. Since we no longer have true capitalism but crony capitalism, things have become distorted.

 

I think I'm missing your point as to how having a railroad 100 years ago to Galveston that is no longer in service has to do with greed. 

 

I don't think there is a point, other than his desire for rail transit causes him to say anything that comes to mind.

[livincinco]

The fact we had a Galveston-Houston rail 100 years ago but not now just shows how the attitude of this country has shifted towards greed over time.

Or it could have something to do with the decreasing economic importance of Galveston since that time?

[infinite_jim]

The line did hold it's own for a while but when faced with gov't competition in the form of roads and then airports, it never stood a chance to compete in the long run.

Edited February 18, 2013 by infinite_jim

[livincinco]

The line did hold it's own for a while but when faced with gov't competition in the form of roads and then airports, it never stood a chance to compete in the long run.

Not sure what impact government support of airports would have on a Houston - Galveston line and the line went out of business well before the start of the interstate highway system. I like railroads and have used the trains in Europe, but let's not glamorize what they are. Railroads are historically (and I would say inherently) monopolistic. Individual routes were almost exclusively controlled by a single company and created huge amounts of wealth in the hands of select individuals. When faced with competition, what occurred was what generally happens when a monopoly has to face competition.

The Galveston-Houston line went out of business in 1936, because it was a poorly run business that took on too much debt and wasn't able to adjust to the introduction of competition. A better run business could have survived.

[RedScare]

So, you could say that the demise of the Houston-Galveston railroad was due to greed. Interesting. I didn't think greed existed anywhere but in automobile factories and concrete plants.

Edited February 19, 2013 by RedScare

[MetroMogul]

What rail line were they planning to use?  In my five years of riding the 50 - Harrisburg to work I've only seen two trains on the Galveston Rd. track.  I seriously thought the line was abandoned.  Then one day I saw a crew working on it and the next day the first train I ever saw ran on the track.  

[mfastx]

What rail line were they planning to use?  In my five years of riding the 50 - Harrisburg to work I've only seen two trains on the Galveston Rd. track.  I seriously thought the line was abandoned.  Then one day I saw a crew working on it and the next day the first train I ever saw ran on the track.  

 

I've seen trains run on that track occasionally.  Not sure of what track they would have used though.  I recall a funky proposition to link them to the intermodal center north of downtown. 

[samagon]

Not sure what impact government support of airports would have on a Houston - Galveston line and the line went out of business well before the start of the interstate highway system. I like railroads and have used the trains in Europe, but let's not glamorize what they are. Railroads are historically (and I would say inherently) monopolistic. Individual routes were almost exclusively controlled by a single company and created huge amounts of wealth in the hands of select individuals. When faced with competition, what occurred was what generally happens when a monopoly has to face competition.

The Galveston-Houston line went out of business in 1936, because it was a poorly run business that took on too much debt and wasn't able to adjust to the introduction of competition. A better run business could have survived.

 

However, the railroad would have surely failed when compared with the gulf freeway.

 

according to Google Maps, it takes just over 50 minutes to get from the front of Minute Maid park to Broadway at the seawall.

 

according to wikipedia, the railway took 75 minutes. if someone had a car, why would they want to drive downtown, find a parking spot, hop the train and be forced to come back on the train's schedule?

 

They'd just hop in their car and drive from wherever their driveway is at their house to Galveston. 

 

And translated to today? just doing the maths, no one would want to take the rail. 100 mile round trip (from MMP to Broadway/Seawall) if you get 20mpg, that's $20 for you and every passenger. I'd be shocked if a round trip rail ticket to/from would be less than $10-15/person. plus you have to hunt for free parking, or pay at least $5 to park downtown. Yeah, that doesn't make sense, if it were still here today. No one would take it, there would be niche market, I'm sure, but realistically? No way it could be done.

[livincinco]

However, the railroad would have surely failed when compared with the gulf freeway.

 

according to Google Maps, it takes just over 50 minutes to get from the front of Minute Maid park to Broadway at the seawall.

 

according to wikipedia, the railway took 75 minutes. if someone had a car, why would they want to drive downtown, find a parking spot, hop the train and be forced to come back on the train's schedule?

 

They'd just hop in their car and drive from wherever their driveway is at their house to Galveston. 

Totally agree with you. The fact that it couldn't survive to that point (the railroad went out of business more than 20 years before the Gulf Freeway was built) is very telling.

I do find it very amusing though that certain comments, on this and other threads, seem to imply that the government funding of the Gulf Freeway was bad. Is there really anyone out there that feels that the government shouldn't have funded the Interstate Highway System?

[RedScare]

Totally agree with you. The fact that it couldn't survive to that point (the railroad went out of business more than 20 years before the Gulf Freeway was built) is very telling.

I do find it very amusing though that certain comments, on this and other threads, seem to imply that the government funding of the Gulf Freeway was bad. Is there really anyone out there that feels that the government shouldn't have funded the Interstate Highway System?

 

Apparently there is one poster that thinks so. I wonder sometimes if he expects to be taken seriously.

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

Here's my slightly different proposal for this line. Title:THE SOLUTION

 

I think this train should ride the existing heavy rail tracks as to get service as soon as possible and it will probably have delays like Amtrack in the Midwest. FYI The Canadian Railway treats Amtrak like a a read headed step child. This will take money but can be done, the estimates from Metro and the articles lay out a 10 year plan.. With a little money provided by a new cruise ship tax? Pay UP or whatever railroad and get permission to use the tracks and give them the ultimate right-of-way. I think this could be done in 4-5 years with the construction of side tracks to get out of the way.

 

All that being said I think weekend service and possibly once or twice daily service could catch on, be a benefit for both cities and maybe even make a little money.

 

The money to fund this would need to be slit between Houston/Galveston and any other cities that get a stop if not lets fly by them. This needs to be operated by a separate and possibly stand-alone operation i.e. Metra in Chicago ( which is not CTA or Amtrak) and can from time to time be reliable/ make a small profit.

 

Here's the idea...

 

Leave downtown - arrive close the seawall not at some transit center many miles away. The right branding and commercials all over town showing probably Padre or some other nice beach and reasonable fares, side by side with 45 jam packed with traffic where it backs up on the small hill close to Hobby. BAMMMM a profitable and niche service that I as a Midtown resident would use on the 2-3 times per summer I go to Galveston. No need for a DD and no need to sit on Hobby wasting away while everyone in the car wonders why did traffic stop short of the belt-way for no reason whatsoever.

 

Everyone must agree I am a genius!

[livincinco]

Pay UP or whatever railroad and get permission to use the tracks and give them the ultimate right-of-way.

The existing freight line has maximum authorized speeds of 20-35 mph according to TXDoT, completely ineffective for passenger transit, not to mention that you are asking UP to prioritize passenger rail over their core business. Freight rail is far more important than passenger rail in the United States and should be prioritized accordingly.

More than 100 million tons of freight is moved by rail through the Houston area annually. I don't understand the value of pushing some of that traffic back to trucks and the highways to provide passenger service.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/project_information/projects/houston/railway/galvestonup.htm

http://www.gcfrd.org/docs/Freight%20Rail%20in%20the%20Houston%20Region%20Study.pdf

[yak23flora]

Just FYI. UP is in the process even as I type of nearly finishing a complete rail upgrade on the line at east out to League City with plas to rehab the entire line to the UP yard on the Island. The rail is now modern, continuous welded rail. This line sees 6 to 10 trains a day plus a local that services the handful of industries along the subdivision. It was stated on an industry train forum that UP desires to minimize trackage rights on the BNSF Galveston sub through pearland-Alvin-Santa Fe, increasing freight commerce on their own Glaveston line makes the most sense. Speed should increase a bit but part of speed restrictions along the UP Galveston sub is busy grade crossings liek Bay Area Blvd. There is talk of long term plans to elevate Bay Area and other major grade crossings, and at one time talk of a connector near Ellington to the Bayport facility since the old SP line along 146 is cut at Kemah and a large section abandoned. The studies can be found on the TXDOT website. Most traffic on the UP Galveston sub along Hwy 3 runs at night, just heard a wailing horn half an hour ago. Its a well used and moderately busy line with clear intentions to make better use of it for freight.

 

Running high speed would require much more than track upgrades in my opinion. In some areas the track is nearly in people's back yard and there are significant risks with running trains through such subdivisions at commuter speed. The many, many crossings pose a safety hazard as well. Once on the Island, old right of ways could easily be re-tracked, but I don't think its a passenger friendly route without major investment, double tracking (some places offer no room for double tracking), grade rasings and a user base that is not time-challeneged.

[j_cuevas713]

So there's now a weekly shuttle service from Houston to Galveston that runs 3 times a day M-F. Has anyone heard about the shuttle or tried it?

Edited November 26, 2017 by j_cuevas713

[JLWM8609]

21 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

So there's now a weekly shuttle service from Houston to Galveston that runs 3 times a day M-F. Has anyone heard about the shuttle or tried it?

Just Googled it after you mentioned it. I knew that both transit authorities were working on it after that story about the gap between the services. It's nice that they have it. I wonder if there would be demand for weekend service? With the seemingly unending construction on I-45 extending southward, a bus might be an alternative to being being the wheel and fighting construction related traffic, but I'd think the weekenders would prefer one bus on the entire route instead of a transfer.

[j_cuevas713]

11 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

Just Googled it after you mentioned it. I knew that both transit authorities were working on it after that story about the gap between the services. It's nice that they have it. I wonder if there would be demand for weekend service? With the seemingly unending construction on I-45 extending southward, a bus might be an alternative to being being the wheel and fighting construction related traffic, but I'd think the weekenders would prefer one bus on the entire route instead of a transfer.

I don't mind the transfer. According to what I read on the City of Galveston website, the route is only open for 2 years thanks to a "generous" grant from TxDOT. I feel like we have to almost worship at the feet of TxDOT for them to realize we need this route. I just wish it was considered a necessity more than some sort of test for the future. And I think that's the biggest issue with public transit in Houston, especially with organizations like TxDOT. The reason cities like NY or Chicago have such a robust transit system is because it's on the same level of importance as making sure the city has water. In Houston it's more a matter of, "Do we really need it?" I was told that the commuter service from Houston to Galveston was cut in 94. Not to get all political because I was a kid at the time, but didn't we have a Republican mayor?

[Houston19514]

56 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I don't mind the transfer. According to what I read on the City of Galveston website, the route is only open for 2 years thanks to a "generous" grant from TxDOT. I feel like we have to almost worship at the feet of TxDOT for them to realize we need this route. I just wish it was considered a necessity more than some sort of test for the future. And I think that's the biggest issue with public transit in Houston, especially with organizations like TxDOT. The reason cities like NY or Chicago have such a robust transit system is because it's on the same level of importance as making sure the city has water. In Houston it's more a matter of, "Do we really need it?" I was told that the commuter service from Houston to Galveston was cut in 94. Not to get all political because I was a kid at the time, but didn't we have a Republican mayor?

 

Houston?  A Republican mayor?  No.  Not since 1981.

[j_cuevas713]

3 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Houston?  A Republican mayor?  No.  Not since 1981.

Ahh ok I wasn't sure, I mean I was like 8 years old. Either way that's when the commuter train ended service to Galveston. Any details why?

[Houston19514]

45 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Ahh ok I wasn't sure, I mean I was like 8 years old. Either way that's when the commuter train ended service to Galveston. Any details why?

 

It's quite a stretch to call what was running prior to 1994 a commuter train service. In fact, it's more than a stretch.  

 

From 1989 to 1994, a privately owned enterprise offered weekend rail trips to Galveston. Presumably, it was not economically successful.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Houston19514

[Slick Vik]

The reason the train stopped is because Lanier and his cronies turned union station into a baseball stadium instead of the train gateway is was planned to become 

[Slick Vik]

Single track is better than no track 

[Ross]

On 11/27/2017 at 8:47 AM, j_cuevas713 said:

I don't mind the transfer. According to what I read on the City of Galveston website, the route is only open for 2 years thanks to a "generous" grant from TxDOT. I feel like we have to almost worship at the feet of TxDOT for them to realize we need this route. I just wish it was considered a necessity more than some sort of test for the future. And I think that's the biggest issue with public transit in Houston, especially with organizations like TxDOT. The reason cities like NY or Chicago have such a robust transit system is because it's on the same level of importance as making sure the city has water. In Houston it's more a matter of, "Do we really need it?" I was told that the commuter service from Houston to Galveston was cut in 94. Not to get all political because I was a kid at the time, but didn't we have a Republican mayor?

It doesn't hurt that Chicago and NY had transit before cars became ubiquitous. The cities were built withe transit as they grew. It is far more difficult to add transit later, especially given the costs and the competing needs for funds.