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Grand Parkway Expansion


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Just read in the chronicle-

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3003806

that the county may start planning the extension of the Grand Parway loop to run from Katy, I-10 west, north all the way to 59 east in Kingwood I guess.

Does anyone have any details on what the plans for this are in terms of what communities it will pass through(Tomball Woodlands?). Not sure how much traffic this will ease in existing roads but it may be an investment in future development.

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Yes, we (members of the opposing group, Save Our Spring) received word of this upcoming vote in Harris County Commissioner's Court to take place next Tuesday. We have asked for (but not received, as of yet) any further clarification or insight into this from the Grand Parkway Association. To learn more about the efforts in the Spring/Klein/Cypress/Tomball areas to stop the Grand Parkway, you can go to: United To Save Our Spring

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********************************************************************

Questions & Answers about: The Grand Parkway

********************************************************************

The Northampton Neighbor newsletter posed the following questions to Robin Sterry, assistant to the executive director of the Grand Parkway Association. (This is going to be published in the February issue of the Northampton Neighbor, but in light of recent developments, will be disclosed now.)

QUESTION: What can you tell me about what is happening with F-2?

ANSWER: Currently, the Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Statement (SDEIS) is underway.

QUESTION: Has the route changed in any way?

ANSWER: At this time, since we are updating information to address impacts to all the alignments as well as investigating other alternatives, no changes to the route have been made. However, once all of the studies are complete there could be a change.

QUESTION: Is the alignment still south of Spring Stuebner?

ANSWER: As of this time, yes, but as I mentioned in the question above, it is possible that the alignment could change.

QUESTION: When will the SEIS be completed?

ANSWER: We are anticipating that the release of the SDEIS could be in the summer of this year.

QUESTION: When is the anticipated public hearing, if one is to be held?

ANSWER: The public hearing will be held approximately 30 to 45 days after the release of the document.

QUESTION: Has the project been taken over yet by any other entity, such as HCTRA or the TxDOT Toll Road group?

ANSWER: No.

QUESTION: Where is the funding coming from?

ANSWER: As with all of the segments of Grand Parkway, funding was dedicated from the counties and the Texas Department of Transportation for the preliminary studies including the environmental process. Grand Parkway is a place-holder project for future construction dollars, but none have been committed to at this date.

QUESTION: When can we anticipate seeing bulldozers out here?

ANSWER: Construction could begin in the year 2008.

QUESTION: If the alignment is to remain south of Spring Stuebner, what will that mean for Ronnie and Cathy Matthews' development, Northcrest Village, that is in the end stages of grubbing and clearing the land for their planned subdivision of 720 homes?

ANSWER: After the studies are complete, a recommended route will be chosen. That route will utilize best practices of environmental studies of avoidance first, then minimization. Since I do not know what that answer is yet, it would be difficult to predict impacts to Northcrest Village.

QUESTION: Is there still a possibility that the Grand Parkway, Segment F-2, is being considered as a leg of the I-69/TTC?

ANSWER: I have attended the public meetings for I-69/TTC and what I have learned from those meetings is that they are still considering Grand Parkway as an alternative since it was part of the I-69 legislation. However, the requirements for I-69/TTC (specifically available right of way) are far beyond what is available along any of the Grand Parkway alternatives. I would encourage you to participate in their process as well as the process for Grand Parkway.

QUESTION: Have any routes been considered north of Spring Creek and into the Woodlands, South Montgomery County area?

ANSWER: Since alternatives were presented to the Association by the public as well as Representative Riddle, we are in the process of studying those alternatives.

QUESTION: Where are they looking?

ANSWER: A few alternative alignments were presented, including the use of FM 1488 and SH 242. These are all being investigated.

QUESTION: Do you still anticipate that the Grand Parkway will be a tolled road?

ANSWER: With the current Texas Transportation Commission, yes.

QUESTION: If so, at what rate?

ANSWER: I don't know. None of those discussions have taken place.

QUESTION: Do you still think that the Grand Parkway will still be primarily used by light passenger car traffic, and not by eighteen- wheelers?

ANSWER: Yes, very few of the eighteen-wheelers are looking for a way to bypass the Houston Metropolitan area. Most have either an origin or destination in Houston due to a number of factors; the ship channel, industry, retail, the port, etc.

QUESTION: When can we see the updated aerial photographs taken out of the proposed alignment?

ANSWER: Those have just been flown (since fall is a better time with the leaves off of the trees) and they will be available in the SDEIS.

QUESTION: Has the leadership on the Grand Parkway Board of Directors changed in any way?

ANSWER: No.

QUESTION: Who are the current board members?

ANSWER: William F. Burge III, Robert C. Brown III, Guy Harrell, John Chiang, Edward Poole, Lori Klein Quinn, and Clive Runnells.

QUESTION: Has any decision been made to possible on ramps and off ramps locations along Segment F-2?

ANSWER: Yes, tentative locations have been proposed based on utilizing Alignment D, which could change and the access locations could change as well.

QUESTION: If so, where are these specifically located?

ANSWER: For Alignment D, they are SH 249, FM 2920, Kuykendahl Road, future Ella Boulevard and IH 45.(Editor

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Maybe he owns some farm land 50 miles from downtown he wants to sell, and a developer will snatch it up once the GP passes nearby.

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Okay... I'll take the chance on this last comment...  Why do you think that the Grand Parkway is a good idea?

Well, because extending the "spokes" of the Houston freeway system is a good idea. It will mean suburbs like Missouri City and Katy can prosper, and they will have additional retail stretch possibilities. In general, it means that the Houston area cam grow out more to the west, and I have always liked sprawl. After all, look where I live :wub: . Not that it's completely good, it is financially harmful, but so is not taking chances w/ sprawl. If you have sprawl, you have lower costs of real estate, which inflict lower costs of living. Chances are in cities (like Little Rock or Tulsa) that your cost of living will be lower than your average wages, meaning you have an excess of purchasing parity. :o

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Well, because extending the "spokes" of the Houston freeway system is a good idea

You are SOOOO right!

However, the Grand Parkway only creates more wheels, not more spokes on the wheels. And, hey, for the uniniated, the Grand Parkway only extends to 59. It's dead in the water after that. So much for the circle they all envisioned. That's because it has always been a developers dream, nothing less, nothing more. Tomorrow in Commissioner's Court should be a real hoot!

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Tomorrow the Harris County Commissioner's Court is set to vote on and approve spending millions of dollars on an engineering firm to draw up schematics for the sections of the Grand Parkway that are still awaiting publications of their environmental impact studies this summer. Why would HCTRA do that? Number one, because the developers out here are building homes right directly in the path of the Grand Parkway. Why aren't they disclosing that the Grand Parkway may be built where these homes are going? Because they are not held to the same rules Realtors are regarding Full Disclosure. Number two, because HCTRA is worried that TxDOT is not moving fast enough to secure funding or routes. And number three, probably the scariest to the HCTRA; the Grand Parkway Association has been directed by federal law to seek out alternate routes in the Montgomery County area, which they are now doing. HCTRA does not want the route to move out of county boundaries; they don't want to have to do any deals with Montgomery County who is becoming more and more transportation savvy. Yeah, Grunt right back at you, buddy! See you in Commissioner's Court, or not! :) (Something tells me you ain't from around here anyway, now are you?)

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Tomorrow the Harris County Commissioner's Court is set to vote on and approve spending millions of dollars on an engineering firm to draw up schematics for the sections of the Grand Parkway .....

I'm glad to see HCTRA taking action. Northwest Harris County is going to fully urbanize with or without the Grand Parkway, and we'll just get a lower quality of life and more inefficient transportation options (eg FM 1960) is the Parkway is not built.

Also, the Grand Parkway is needed south of the Woodlands where it is presently aligned, not north of the Woodlands. If the project is left to TxDOT, I think it will be moved. In fact, in the long run I think the Harris County alignment and another limited-access facility near FM 1488 will be needed.

I'm not sure what you mean about Montgomery County become savvy. Do you mean that they see a profit in the tollway and would like to have it to themselves?

Nothing is final until it is built, so I don't consider this a final decision. The window is closing due to the heavy urbanization of the area, and there's just enough time to get the job done. If the Parkway is built, future residents of the area will be thankful.

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Tomorrow the Harris County Commissioner's Court is set to vote on and approve spending millions of dollars on an engineering firm to draw up schematics for the sections of the Grand Parkway that are still awaiting publications of their environmental impact studies this summer. Why would HCTRA do that? Number one, because the developers out here are building homes right directly in the path of the Grand Parkway. Why aren't they disclosing that the Grand Parkway may be built where these homes are going? Because they are not held to the same rules Realtors are regarding Full Disclosure. Number two, because HCTRA is worried that TxDOT is not moving fast enough to secure funding or routes. And number three, probably the scariest to the HCTRA; the Grand Parkway Association has been directed by federal law to seek out alternate routes in the Montgomery County area, which they are now doing. HCTRA does not want the route to move out of county boundaries; they don't want to have to do any deals with Montgomery County who is becoming more and more transportation savvy. Yeah, Grunt right back at you, buddy! See you in Commissioner's Court, or not! :) (Something tells me you ain't from around here anyway, now are you?)

Grand Parkway or no Grand Parkway, let's rebuild the inner city roads first. That can be done at a fraction of the cost of Grand Parkway!

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I agree with that development will come to NW Harris with or without Grand Parkway. I actually believe that beltways get TOO much credit in the sprawling of cities. Sometimes it's just raw (perceived) costs. Sure, one could argue that "a home may be cheaper on Mason than it is on Memorial but you'll make up the difference is gas", but there are just some costs that people seem to deal with regardless.

Also, because of Houston's polycentric nature, development that far out is a matter of manifest destiny. I can't remember the guy's name, but I remember a person in the Chronicle saying that Houston should do all it can to have "super-communities" a la the Woodlands with 60,000 residents, jobs, and retail along the Grand Parkway. The more I think about it, the more I prefer it to no building the GP and people moving out there in any fashion, especially with the GP having very few exits and virtually no feeders. It won't be as dense as a rail station, but access points to the GP will be prime locations for the next master-planned communities.

Remember, Austin had the attitude of not building freeways and hoping that the sprawl wouldn't come, but it came anyway. Now Austin will get those same freeways, except they are decades late and will have toll booths on them indefinitely. Phoenix is sprawling out of control to its north, with development occuring far north of its outerloop, which was finished not too long ago. Orlando is another big sprawler that is now trying to catch up with the development by placing overreaching tollway loops around its development.

Ironically San Antonio, IMO, with a very good freeway network (with no substantial centerline mile additions in a long time), may be the least sprawled major Texas metro.

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Northwest Harris County is going to fully urbanize with or without the Grand Parkway
so your reasoning is; why not just hurry that whole urbanization thing along and get it over with already?
and we'll just get a lower quality of life
yeah, the quality of life we have now is just a little too darned good right now, and that whole Grand Parkway thing that will split our community in two will just make all our lives easier, especially with that exits spaced 10 miles apart?
the Grand Parkway is needed south of the Woodlands where it is presently aligned, not north of the Woodlands
I'm sorry, but I missed the part where you actually tell me WHY?
If the project is left to TxDOT, I think it will be moved.
From your lips to TxDOT's ears...
I'm not sure what you mean about Montgomery County become savvy. Do you mean that they see a profit in the tollway and would like to have it to themselves?
in a word, yes!
There's just enough time to get the job done.
Max, maybe you just need to come on out here sometime, IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE, and it's been too late for thirty years!
If the Parkway is built, future residents of the area will be thankful.
Man, are you dreaming, I really expected better b*s* outa you! You really think those future residents will be thankful that they get to hop on this magical road and go where ....Sugarland, .....Katy. Yeah, that's definitely worth the price paid! I'm really surprised you just keep parrotting the same tired tripe that spewed forth from David Gornet for years as justification for the project. Even he gave up trying to peddle that crap out here after a while. Of course, their official website doesn't reflect those changes, so maybe you missed that.

You know, just wondering here; how many of you who have responded over time to the Grand Parkway problem are 1. at least 30, 2. own a home in northwest Harris County, 3. have children in the Klein ISD (extra points if you actually know where Hildebrandt and Klein Oak are!). I'm guessing at least ONE of you...

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You know, just wondering here; how many of you who have responded over time to the Grand Parkway problem are 1. at least 30, 2. own a home in northwest Harris County, 3. have children in the Klein ISD (extra points if you actually know where Hildebrandt and Klein Oak are!). I'm guessing at least ONE of you...

I fit all of the above. I am opposed to the development of the Grand Parkway as it stands now. It WILL negatively impact the quality of life for residents of Spring. I applaud Debbie Riddle in the stands that she has taken concerning this project. I continue to be confused about the other politicians who support the developers and ignore their constituents who live in established neighborhoods who would be impacted by the Grand Parkway. I guess they are listening to money -- not people.

When I posed my question a few post ago I was curious to see what would cause someone to continue to support the development of the Grand Parkway (especially the current F-2 alignments) with all the information that is available on the web as to the impact it would would have on current Spring residents in the path of the alignments, as well as areas along other segments of the Grand Parkway.

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Pineda,

While I commend you and the other residents of Spring for your will to stand for your neighborhood, you have to understand that most people outside of Spring will not quite understand your perspective, simply because they don't live there. On the other hand, if more people see a benefit in something in *their* lives, then they will speak out about it.

I said this before, but I highly doubt the folks in Spring feel as vigorously as the folks in Alvin do about the GP's alignments in their city. And you can't be expected to because you don't live in Alvin.

Same principle applies in lots of cases; e.g. some people think that the US spends too much on defense, well, if you cut costs, you could also end up closing bases which are the economic lifebloods of several communities (like my hometown, which is still on life support after our base--which was the home of the Military Police School and the Chemical Weapons School--closed in 1999), but around the country, people think that the costs are cut. I also heard a man once say, "it's easy to be liberal or conservative in abstract, but you know how yoou are when you're confronted with an uncomfortable situation". Or how about the people who live in areas that become gentrified and have to leave. Most in a community will feel like that area is coming up and a positive for the city--but those who were forced out have a different tale to tell.

Sorry about the babble but I hope you get my point--outside of you, adagio, and other Springers, most Greater Houston residents will feel like they know what's best for the community on a macro scale, including yours on a micro scale--and you will likely disagree. You're not the first group of people and likely won't be the last.

So, do what you feel will help your community (thus your interests), but don't expect others to fully relate, just as you can't always fully relate to other people's struggles.

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I think I'm outside the loop on this one. (ouch... did I just say that?) I definately need to put some time aside and read through all the info pineda has posted on this topic.

I used the projected corridor from sugarland to katy a while back to take my parents to see that Forbidden City museum. I remember thinking that it seemed convenient but also wondered how useful it was going to be and just how expensive. Is it projected to releave much stress on the inner rings? Reminds me of electron shells... each layer has slighly more energy but has to spred it relatively thin over the greatly increasing surface area. ie reduced returns.

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While I commend you and the other residents of Spring for your will to stand for your neighborhood, you have to understand that most people outside of Spring will not quite understand your perspective, simply because they don't live there. On the other hand, if more people see a benefit in something in *their* lives, then they will speak out about it.
I understand that point completely, thank you so much for bringing that up! I just came from the Harris County Commissioner's Court where the vote was overwhelmingly in favor of spending $6 MILLION for a schematic of the Grand Parkway. It was discussed and someone mentioned that Gary Trietsch of TxDOT has said that the redundancy of these studies in addition to what processes the Grand Parkway Association is already going through, is in fact a waste of taxpayer dollars for doing what the GPA has already been charged to do. Wow, a waste of YOUR HARRIS COUNTY TAXPAYER DOLLARS! Get your attention yet?
I said this before, but I highly doubt the folks in Spring feel as vigorously as the folks in Alvin do about the GP's alignments in their city. And you can't be expected to because you don't live in Alvin.

Not sure why you decided to pick (of all places!) ALVIN! They had their own unified coalition called STOPGRANDPARKWAY! They were very well-funded and covered by the media in that area, so I'm afraid I'd have to correct you there.

So, do what you feel will help your community (thus your interests), but don't expect others to fully relate, just as you can't always fully relate to other people's struggles.

I'm sorry if I've upset you with my voicing of my very strong opinions on this issue. I actually love it when people on this board disagree with me and force me to defend my stances; it's great practice when I have to stand toe-to-toe with Senator Jon Lindsay, Commissioner Jerry Eversole and Judge Robert Eckels. So, thanks for being my "target practice", it came in especially handy today! :D

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I don't really think development will come, for 10 years, if we don't build this freeway. Not enough exits? In my own hometown, they are adding exits onto a freeway that zips by my house, you can ADD the exits. The only thing that they will really, really need is a feeder road, a Houston staple.

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I don't really think development will come, for 10 years, if we don't build this freeway.
Not sure I even understand what you're trying to say here. Please clarify.
The only thing that they will really, really need is a feeder road, a Houston staple.

Not sure what it is you call home, but the last legislative session in Austin, Tx. saw a move away from feeder roads, no longer a Houston staple, I'm afraid.

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By development, of coarse I meant S P R A W L
I don't really think development will come, for 10 years, if we don't build this freeway.

I don't really think sprawl will come if we don't build this freeway. So, you think sprawl won't come if we build this freeway? Is that right? There's a little concept called "induced development". Ever heard of it? "Build it, they will come."

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Let's study this sentence structure...

"I don't really think development will come"

This is stating the main point of the sentence

"for 10 years"

This is clarifying the conditions, because the author of this sentence believes it will come either way, but that this will speed up the growth.

"if we don't build this freeway"

In other words, stating that the main point, will happen if we do this, which is not building the GP.

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Yes, Sooner or later. But... we can speed up growth in West Houston, and that would place Houston a couple years ahead. Also, will there be another good opportunity to atleast get this laid down, look at FM 1960 (HWY 6) that is what happens when you wait to long, and the Spring area residents get in the way of highway construction. Notice that no other area is protesting this...

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we can speed up growth in West Houston
And this would be a good thing because....
that would place Houston a couple years ahead

Ahead of what?

will there be another good opportunity to at least get this laid down
Their opportunity to "get this laid down" passed by 30 years ago.
the Spring area residents get in the way of highway construction

Yeah, those pesky Spring residents. Why don't they just let the politicians determine what is in their best interests? They DO know best, don't they?

Notice that no other area is protesting this...

Actually, every segment of this has been protested. You're just noticing this one because it's happening now, and we get really good media coverage! :lol:

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