[pineda]

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Amid urban growth, a plan for green space
Montgomery,Harris counties are teaming up for a park project

By RENEE C. LEE
Staff, Houston Chronicle


In the next decade, Montgomery and Harris county officials envision a major tourism spot along a meandering creek nestled in dense woods, where people can picnic in parks, hike on nature trails or spend the day canoeing.

Montgomery County Precinct 3 and Harris County Precinct 4 are working to develop an 8,000- to 12,000-acre regional preserve along Spring Creek, the dividing line between the counties.

With commercial and housing developments quickly moving north, officials from both counties say now is the time to protect the creek and the forestland around it.

The goal is to balance growth and green space to ensure people have a place to relax and commune with nature.

"It will be a place where people can go, bring their families and enjoy nature and see how the creek was in the beginning," said Robert Collins, who heads the project for Montgomery County. "And what's so nice, it's in our back yard."

The project will include a system of parks and undeveloped green spaces connected by trails and bridges to provide access to the creek and its surrounding natural habitat.

Each county is working to buy or have land donated for the project, which will stretch from U.S. 59 in Humble to FM 2978 near Tomball.

They also have jointly applied for a $2 million grant from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department to help fund the project.

Spring Creek is a hidden oasis of white sandy banks lined by a thick forest of cypress, sycamore and Eastern red cedar trees, many more than 200 years old. A variety of wildlife and birds, including bobcats, deer, white cranes and red-shouldered hawks, live in the area and sometimes can be spotted from the shore or through the woods.

The creek is one of only two in Harris County still untouched by development. Clear Creek is the other.

Expanding greenway

Harris County Precinct 4 Commissioner Jerry Eversole initiated the greenway project last year as an extension of a park project launched in the early 1980s by former Harris County Judge Jon Lindsay.

Eversole realized that since the county already owned several tracts of land bought for the earlier project, it needed to purchase only a few others to connect them all to create a 10-mile linear park along the creek's south side.

The county owns about 1,500 acres south of the creek and is negotiating with developers and individual landowners to buy another 700 acres between Old Town Spring and U.S. 59, said Dennis Johnston, park administrator for Precinct 4.

The 2,200-acre linear park will connect the Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center in Humble with the new 300-acre John Pundt Park under construction, just south of Lexington Woods in Spring.

Johnston said the county also is designing a launch for the Jones park, but a construction date has not been set.

Harris County has three other sites on the greenway: Burroughs Park, Cypresswood Golf Club and Mercer Arboretum & Botanic Gardens.

Montgomery County joined the project early last year after Eversole approached Precinct 3 Commissioner Ed Chance.

Both sides of the creek

Chance said he was excited about the opportunity to develop the county's first green space and brought in Collins in August to work full time on it.

"It makes an excellent facility to have parks on both sides of the creek," Chance said. "It's probably the last land like that in the area to build a park facility."

The county will preserve about 6,400 acres along the creek's north side but plans to develop only 25 miles.

Collins said the developed area will include entrance parks equipped with parking, picnic and restroom facilities. Some parks will have canoe and kayak launches and sports facilities.

Several acres of green space and multiuse trails will separate each park.

The county also wants to build nature and education centers, where schoolchildren and organizations can go on tours or field trips and conduct research projects.

Other sites that could be added to the project include the 25-acre Peckinpaugh Reserve at Riley Fuzzel and crossing bridges at Interstate 45, Kuykendahl, Gosling and FM 2978.

Before joining the Spring Creek project, Montgomery County had begun preserving the creek and tapping it as a resource.

In 2002, it opened the Montgomery County Preserve, west of I-45 at Budde and Pruitt roads. The 71-acre site includes a one-mile trail that eventually will be extended to the creek, and a recycling center.

Adjacent to the site is a 24-acre sports complex and 25 acres of football fields under construction.

The land for the preserve was acquired with help from the Legacy Land Trust, a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting natural areas in the Houston region.

The trust negotiated the land through wetland mitigation, in which areas are restored or preserved to compensate for wetlands that will be developed. It's a creative, fast and cheap way for developers to fulfill their wetland-permit needs, said Jennifer Lorenz , executive director of the trust.

The 71-acre site also is a designated conservation easement, which means commercial development on the property is prohibited.

The trust also has worked with Harris County on several wetland-mitigation deals to acquire land for the project.

Most of the land targeted by both counties is floodway and floodplain property.

Because Montgomery County has no budget for the greenway project, it is trying to persuade as many landowners as it can to donate property.

The county already owns 162 acres and recently acquired about 225 donated by developer Thomas Lipar, the Houston Audubon Society and Houstonian Patricia Peckinpaugh-Hubbard, whose family once owned 1,200 acres of land along the creek.

Other deals, totaling 418 acres, are being negotiated through wetland mitigation secured by Legacy Land Trust.

Montgomery County also will rely on state and federal grants and corporate and individual donations to fund the project, Collins said.

Completion by 2013

Chance estimated it will cost $2.5 million for park and bridge construction, which should start in about four years and be completed by 2013.

Harris County is using$2 million from a 2001 bond issue to build Pundt park and is counting on another $1 million from the state grant. It also has $1 million set aside for incidentals, Johnston said.

Although funding is limited, that has not hampered enthusiasm. Officials from both counties say they're optimistic the regional preserve will pay off in thousands of tourism dollars.

"The amazing thing about it is, when you interconnect all these communities, in and out of green spaces and parks, and you bring in the water aspect, it will spur a lot of ecotourism and development in the area," Johnston said. "It has a lot of potential. That's why I think it's catching on. It's exciting."

. . .

COUNTIES BLAZING A TRAIL TO NATURE

Key steps in developing the Spring Creek Greenway project:

Harris County Precinct 4: Will purchase additional 700 acres to create 10-mile linear park on south. County owns 1,500 acres.

Harris County: Now building a new 300-acre John Pundt Park that will be a part of the linear park

Montgomery County Precinct 3 : Plans to develop 25 miles of parks and trails along the creek's north side

Montgomery County: Already owns 162 acres and recently acquired about 225 acres of donated land

Montgomery County officials: Negotiating deals for an additional 418 acres

Both counties: Have jointly applied for a $2 million grant from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department to help fund greenway project

[bachanon]

looking at my keymap and a recent map of the woodlands; "creekside park", the final village to be developed here, will connect with this linear park. creekside park will consist of over 2,500 acres of park land/nature preserve along spring creek.

this is great news for northern harris and southern montgomery counties. in fact, it's great news for our region.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I agree. I wish there were similar plans for the San Jacinto and Brazos rivers as well. I've always thought those two waterways were underutilized and underappreciated.

Great news about Spring Creek, though.

[H-Town Man]

Way back in the 70's they had aspirations of making a "green belt" along Cypress Creek. It ended up being a disconnected patchwork of parks and golf courses. Flooding risks staved off development for a time, but now huge tracts have been cleared for shopping centers (like the intersection of Cypresswood Dr. and Stuebner-Airline). Still, the area maintains its dignity, and Cypresswood is a nice drive. Perhaps the most beautiful part of that greenway awaits its fate as Hewlett Packard determines how to sell its land.

I think the outlook for Spring Creek is a lot better, mainly because its flooding risks are more severe.

[LTAWACS]

so they put a park in the middle of the forest, eh?

[pineda]

Quote

so they put a park in the middle of the forest, eh?

That is funny, but true!

Spring Creek is such a beautiful wild place still. It will be interesting to see what homogenization will be taking place in the future. It makes me wonder how the Woodlands can be building so close to the creek when so much, if not all, of that area is clearly not only in the floodplain but also in the floodway. How much dirt will have to be trucked in to compensate for this, how high up will those foundations be built, how many detention pond (i.e. "lakefront properties") will have to be constructed to offset all this?

Spring Creek, although very beautiful is very inaccessible as well. This is good for the wildlife in the area, especially since the overabundance of housing starts in the northwest area is forcing the wildlife to flee their natural habitats. How much of the "new and improved" Spring Creek will be set aside and left alone as an inaccessible to humans habitat to protect the wildlife or will the whole thing be set up as a giant petting zoo, with only "good" animals allowed to stay, and ridding the area of "bad" animals? How long before the new residents of Creekside Park start complaining about the deer eating their ornamental shrubs in the front yards?

I heard recently of a teenager from the Woodlands who went four-wheeling with some friends along Spring Creek. The four-wheeler got stuck and try as they might, they couldn't get out. So, they gave up since it was getting to be quite cold and quite dark and decided to return first thing in the morning and if they still couldn't get it out, they would call a wrecker. The next morning, they got there at 6:00 a.m. to find not only a wrecker on the scene (in a totally deserted and not able to be seen from the road, remote area) but a game warden as well. They asked how this came to be and the game warden informed them and their parents that Spring Creek is regularly patrolled by not only the game wardens but the DEA as well. The entire Spring Creek area is a known drug dealing spot, but not just the kind where kids buy pot from each other. This remote, deserted area hidden in Montgomery County/ Harris County is notorious for the exchange of big-time money and drugs between drug lords and their "mules". Scary stuff! That kind of "wildlife" being run out of here would be very welcome change. I wouldn't have even considered this a possibility when I see people canoeing down the creek, but now I think I'd have second thoughts before trying it.

[kjb434]

I do acknowledge that the floodplain is wide for Spring. First let me say that I'm a hydraulics and hydrologic engineers (branch of civil engineering) and I do lots of work for the Woodlands through my company. The Woodlands will not develop houses in the 100-year floodplain. If houses are placed in the floodplain, they were built prior to recent studies that suggest the floodplain has changed. Also, if a house is built in the floodplain, the slab of the house is elevated out of the floodplain while the rest of the lot will remain in the floodplain. The entire lot will not be elevated because of the Woodlands committment to preserving trees.

Harris County had already planned a public park and golf course for Spring Creek just West of where Creekside Park is to be built. Money ran out and golf course was just cleared and never finished. The Woodlands just bought the land the planned golf course sits on. They haven't decided what they want to do with it yet.

The main reason a park is so favorable along this creek is because most development can't build extremely close to the creek itself. The park will utilize this space and make developable land more favorable to developers.

[pineda]

Quote

Harris County had already planned a public park and golf course for Spring Creek just West of where Creekside Park is to be built. Money ran out and golf course was just cleared and never finished. The Woodlands just bought the land the planned golf course sits on. They haven't decided what they want to do with it yet.

I never read or heard anything about this. Do you recall the name of this proposed public park and golf course?

Also, if you have access to any maps or descriptions of Creekside Park, could you please post them here?

[kjb434]

The name of the park is the Ray Cambell Burrough Park. i think some of the park is built, but the backside where the golf course would be was never finished. The trees were cleared for the fairways but not finished. It would be on Key Map page 249 on the righ center of the page.

Creekside park is supposed to be between Gosling and Kuykendahl Roads closer to Gosling on the Harris County side of Spring Creek. It is not noted on the Key Map page 250 in grids M and R. On the west side of Kuykendahl Road right next to spring creek is where Carlton Woods will be built. The golf cours is being built now. The lots that are being sold range from 0.5 to 2 acres. The lots will be left with trees. The main roadway and several of the residential streets had to be redesigned and configured to avoid several old growth trees. The Woodlands would rather pay us to redesign them than tear down the trees. I have plans of the subdivision, but i can't put them on this site because of a confidentiality agreement with my company and the Woodlands.

[bachanon]

kjb434, on Friday, January 14th, 2005 @ 3:01pm, said:

The name of the park is the Ray Cambell Burrough Park.  i think some of the park is built, but the backside where the golf course would be was never finished.  The trees were cleared  for the fairways but not finished.  It would be on Key Map page 249 on the righ center of the page.

Creekside park is supposed to be between Gosling and Kuykendahl Roads closer to Gosling on the Harris County side of Spring Creek.  It is not noted on the Key Map page 250 in grids M and R.  On the west side of Kuykendahl Road right next to spring creek is where Carlton Woods will be built.  The golf cours is being built now.  The lots that are being sold range from 0.5 to 2 acres.  The lots will be left with trees.  The main roadway and several of the residential streets had to be redesigned and configured to avoid several old growth trees.  The Woodlands would rather pay us to redesign them than tear down the trees.  I have plans of the subdivision, but i can't put them on this site because of a confidentiality agreement with my company and the Woodlands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

carlton woods already exists. isn't this the second golf course and, perhaps, a new section for carlton woods?

[pineda]

Burroughs Park

The park's been there for a long time. Never heard anything about a golf course being built in connection with the park, though.

[kjb434]

If you look at aerial photos as i have to do a work and the key map, the golf course is clearly present, but never finished.

The actual title of the Woodlands developent on the south side of Spring Creek in Harris County is Carlton Woods at Creekside Park. There is some more to this official title. If there is another Carlton Woods, then yes this will be the second one. It under construction now and probably can't be seen at all from Kuykendahl Road because of the trees. It'll probably stay that way except for the entrance road.

[pineda]

Quote

If you look at aerial photos as i have to do a work and the key map, the golf course is clearly present, but never finished.

Wow, I'll have to take another look at the aerials on that section. Thanks for the information, I'll ask Eversole's office what happened to the project!

Quote

It under construction now and probably can't be seen at all from Kuykendahl Road because of the trees. It'll probably stay that way except for the entrance road.

It may not be visible from Kuykendahl, but it sure is from Gosling. The bulldozers are going non-stop removing all the trees hidden behind that laughable fringe of trees left along Gosling. Lots more deer and smaller animals running from the area and ending up dead all up and down Gosling lately. Kinda sad to see..

[bachanon]

Quote

Creekside park is supposed to be between Gosling and Kuykendahl Roads closer to Gosling on the Harris County side of Spring Creek. It is not noted on the Key Map page 250 in grids M and R. On the west side of Kuykendahl Road right next to spring creek is where Carlton Woods will be built. The golf cours is being built now. The lots that are being sold range from 0.5 to 2 acres. The lots will be left with trees. The main roadway and several of the residential streets had to be redesigned and configured to avoid several old growth trees. The Woodlands would rather pay us to redesign them than tear down the trees. I have plans of the subdivision, but i can't put them on this site because of a confidentiality agreement with my company and the Woodlands.

Village Map

above is a link to the village map of the woodlands. notice the existing carlton woods section. i've not read or heard about anything in creekside called by the same name.

i'm wondering if the management company or developer of carlton woods is the same?

i don't understand why there would be a second village also called carlton woods inside creekside.

[MidtownCoog]

Bachon. Here are some aerial pics of your hood:

http://www.dl-digita...nicAirplane.htm

http://www.dl-digita...ly-Airplane.htm

[kjb434]

Quote

Village Map

above is a link to the village map of the woodlands. notice the existing carlton woods section. i've not read or heard about anything in creekside called by the same name.

i'm wondering if the management company or developer of carlton woods is the same?

i don't understand why there would be a second village also called carlton woods inside creekside.

Yes, I know its confusing. Carlton Woods is not a Village. It's just a subdivision within the Creekside Village. There will be many more sections to come in Creekside with various names.

The name of Creekside side has changed many times. At one time it was called Harmony Bend. I think this still might factor into the final official names. The official plat name for the Carton Woods sections is about 10 words long.

And yes, the Woodlands Land Development Company is the developer for Carlton woods.

It is important to remeber that the developer and the home builder are not always the same thing. Often developes just prepare the streets, utilities, and lots. Then they sell the lots to the builders to places houses on them.

There are a few builders who develop also. It just depends. But in the Woodlands case, most if not all the lots have been developed by the Woodlands and then sold to home builders to put houses on them.

The commercial areas are primarily sold to a commercial developer and the Woodlands just keeps a close scrutiny on the development.

[bachanon]

thanks for the additional info. that helps a little. i love maps and new development. i'm a real geek about it.

[kjb434]

no problem,

I'm pretty much a geek for it too. Now I work with it all the time.

[pineda]

fun with maps!

[Lowbrow]

mmm fun. 96% 5 miles 224 seconds. ive lived in half of them and been to the other half so makes sense i know where they are.

Now if we just had one of those for all the neighborhoods in Houston I'd be lost.

[pineda]

more about the Creekside Park project

Thanks, Anne Linehan at www.bloghouston.com for bringing this to us!

[pineda]

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01/25/2005
County requesting $2 million in grant funding for park
By: Burton Speakman

The Montgomery County Parks and Recreation Department will present a $2 million grant application to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department next week.

The application, approved by county commissioners during Monday's meeting, would help fund the Spring Creek Greenway in south county.
Robert Collins, special council for Precinct 3, compared the project to Central Park in New York and several of Houston's large parks.
"It's the obligation of our generation to come together to make this park come to be," Collins said.
The grant is for the first phase of the park, which includes an 18-mile section from the Montgomery County Preserve to Pruitt Road just west of Interstate 45, he said.
Spring Creek Greenway will be between 12,000 and 15,000 acres when completed, Collins said.
This grant would require a $1 million match from Montgomery County and Harris County. The counties are partnering on the project to preserve the land on both sides of Spring Creek, Collins said.
Montgomery County already has its share of the match program, he said.
"We've got four years to purchase land and four years to build it," Precinct 3 Commissioner Ed Chance said.
The county owns 162 acres, including 220 lots, Collins said. There are several other land donations the county is processing.
The Woodlands Development Company, formerly The Woodlands Operating Company, owns 1,700 acres that will become part of the greenway, Chance said.
"This is an ambitious project, and it will be a great project for the people of this community," County Judge Alan B. Sadler said. "It's a project that is direly needed for Montgomery County. There's nothing like that here for a growing population."

Traffic enforcement: The Montgomery County Sheriff's Department is applying for a $152,714 grant from the Texas Department of Transportation for a "selective traffic enforcement program" that relates to speeding enforcement.
Lt. Dan Norris said the grant would allow the department to use deputies for at least 80 hours a week on traffic enforcement.
"We need to do something about traffic," Sheriff Tommy Gage said.
The department needs to work within its inherited budget, so the grant would be a step toward being able to do more in traffic enforcement, he said.
"Thank goodness we have the constables' offices and the local police departments to help us with this," Gage said.
If the grant is received, Montgomery County would need a $36,661 match.

Computer equipment: Commissioners agreed to spend $160,398.70 of bond funds to purchase computer equipment and software for the new library in south county.
This equipment includes 84 computers, $6,500 of software, two video projects, nine printers, a television, DVD players and videocassette recorders, said Mark Bosma, purchasing agent.

Health Services: Montgomery County will allow the Texas Department of Health Services the use of space at the Lone Star Convention Center in the event of a declared national disaster.

Acquisition: The county has reached a right-of-way acquisition deal with the Texas Department of Transportation to purchase property along FM 1488. Montgomery County will receive a 90 percent reimbursement for funds used for approved right-of-way purchases.
Sadler said this type of agreement must be reached for the county to receive credit for right-of-way purchases in terms of the matching agreement.

[bachanon]

TWOC Changing Its Name To Reflect New Focus
by The Woodlands Operating Company


The Woodlands Operating Company, L.P., developer of The Woodlands, Texas, is changing its name to The Woodlands Development Company and adopting a new logo, according to Thomas J. D’Alesandro IV, president and CEO. “We’re turning over a new leaf after 30 years of development,” D’Alesandro said. “The new name and graphic identity reflect our renewed focus on the business of developing superior environments where people can enjoy living, working, playing and learning in harmony with nature. Rather than operating other entities, the Company’s manpower and resources will be devoted to refining and enhancing the master plan for The Woodlands community.

“This new corporate strategy makes it possible for our Company to increase profitability while continuing to build new homes, parks, shopping centers, roads and office buildings to stimulate job creation, home sales and an improved quality of life for present and future residents of The Woodlands.”

Future development projects include the urbane Town Center, an 800-acre “downtown” anchored by The Woodlands Waterway™, a mile-long transportation corridor and water amenity that links office buildings, shopping, dining, urban residences, entertainment and culture. Also in development is the East Shore community, a new enclave bordering Lake Woodlands that will be the “garden district” of Town Center. In the western portion of The Woodlands, development continues in the Terramont area of the Village of Sterling Ridge.

The largest project in development is Creekside Park, the eighth and final village in The Woodlands. The 3,151-acre village will include the largest park in the Houston area at 1,700 acres. The park will border Spring Creek for seven miles, and will eventually link to the Spring Creek Greenway Project, a cooperative effort between Harris and Montgomery Counties to create a 25-mile trail and park system. Plans being considered for Creekside Park include canoeing and kayaking, hiking, botanic gardens and a Nature Center.

Slated to welcome its first residents in 2007, Creekside Park Village will include over 5,000 residences in a variety of styles and price ranges, a village shopping center, schools and places of worship, similar to the other residential villages in The Woodlands.

Creekside Park Village also encompasses Carlton Woods-Creekside, a 500-acre expansion of the gated community of Carlton Woods located in the Village of Sterling Ridge. Lots are now for sale in Carlton Woods-Creekside, which features a championship Tom Fazio golf course. The community of Carlton Woods in Sterling Ridge has a Jack Nicklaus Signature course as its centerpiece. The private Nicklaus/Fazio combination at Carlton Woods will be the first of its kind in the country. “Our Company is proud of its history and the fact that The Woodlands is emulated as a model for master-planned community development,” D’Alesandro said. “As we progress into the future, our new perspective will enable us to broaden our scope to offer urban environments, innovative amenities and more green space than most communities in America.”

LINK

you may have to register to use link.

[pineda]

updated info on Creekside Park

Quote

Creekside Park Village, unlike the rest of The Woodlands, is located in the Tomball Independent School District. While new residents may initially go to existing schools, property has been sold to construct schools within the village, Welbes said.

This post has been edited by pineda: Saturday, January 14, 2006 at 9:17 AM

[woody_hawkeye]

In looking through some Chronicle archives, it appeared to me that the 20 year plan by Harris County includes the Montgomery portion and the Harris county portion of the creek all the way to Lake Houston. Now I have kayaked the creek, and it is normally not navigable. Will they dredge it? I doubt it. Then only the lower portions would be for kayaks and canoes I would guess.

This post has been edited by woody_hawkeye: Sunday, January 15, 2006 at 7:48 PM

[Dobiestud]

When you look at satelite view of the area along Spring Creek just west of 45 up to Creekside Village, theres clearly NO development in most of that area, which also seems to be the only area in the north that hasnt seen development. Any ideas? I know alot of the area sits in the flood plain, any other thoughts on this? Will or can the flood control districts do anything to improve flooding along this area?

[bachanon]

update

Aug. 9, 2006, 11:42AM
County continues efforts to acquire park land
Development continues for project along Spring Creek

By BETH KUHLES
Chronicle Correspondent

Montgomery County has begun the process of acquiring more land for the Spring Creek Greenway project.

The linear park, which will stretch from FM 2978 in Spring to U.S. 59 in Humble, will be the largest park ever developed in the Houston region.

full story

[bachanon]

UPDATE

Sept. 5, 2006, 11:46AM

County continues efforts to acquire park land
Development continues for project along Spring Creek

By BETH KUHLES
Chronicle Correspondent

Montgomery County has begun the process of acquiring more land for the Spring Creek Greenway project.

The linear park, which will stretch from FM 2978 in Spring to U.S. 59 in Humble, will be the largest park ever developed in the Houston region.

The 8,000- to 12,000-acre joint effort between Harris and Montgomery counties will offer many recreational opportunities, including trails for hiking, biking, nature walks and horseback riding as well as canoeing, playground and picnicking areas.

Harris County also is busy plotting out paths and bridges for a 7.5-mile section that will run between Old Town Spring and Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center in Humble. Harris County Flood Control District recently acquired a 125-acre tract near the end of East Hardy Street and Interstate 45 and is preparing the preliminary plans to use a state grant to develop some trails there.

A new park, Pundt Park in Spring, is scheduled to begin construction in early 2007, and trails are planned for a two-mile stretch out of that park as well as a half-mile stretch from Jones Park in Humble. The trails will include a 10-foot-wide asphalt trail with a parallel horseback riding trail, said Dennis Johnston, director of parks for Harris County Precinct 4.

"We are into the nitty-gritty details," Johnston said. "It is slow work, dealing with flood plains, Army Corps of Engineers and wetlands stuff."

Pundt Park, located behind Lexington Woods, will feature a pavilion, picnic areas, playground, parking lots and restrooms.

Adding land
While Montgomery County has been successful in getting several major land donations for the project, it is now looking at tax foreclosure sales and right of way acquisition, which may include condemnation, to get additional land. Montgomery County recently dedicated $1 million in certificates of obligation to obtain park land.

"There is so much going on behind the scenes," said Robert Collins, special counsel for Montgomery County. "The pieces are coming together. We are really getting excited now."


Montgomery County is targeting about 100 tax foreclosure properties in the Timber Lakes/Timber Ridge area of South County and Spring Acres, properties that are located in the flood plain. These properties had been offered at a county tax foreclosure sale but were never bid on. If the taxing entities agree, the county can settle the outstanding tax debts on the lots and use the property for parks.

"Nobody wanted to bid on something they cannot build on," said J.R. Moore, Montgomery County tax assessor/collector. "These properties can be brought and sold to the county for the tax liens."

Three properties were approved by Montgomery County Commissioners Court to proceed with tax trust, the process of the county obtaining the land by paying off the debts owed to schools and utility districts. One tract in Spring Acres was 2.5 acres, while there were two smaller residential lots available in Timber Lakes.

In addition, Montgomery County hired KDM Property Acquisitions to obtain right of way for 20 tracts along Spring Creek. The estimated cost of the services is $38,000 and it will target property on the northern side of Spring Creek.


this paragraph makes me wonder if the high & dry areas of timber lakes/timber ridge will increase in value due to being next to preserved park space and close to town center and i-45. these non-woodlands neighborhoods have devalued greatly in past years due to repeated flooding; however, many streets have been unaffected by high waters.

FULL STORY

This post has been edited by bachanon: Wednesday, September 6, 2006 at 12:47 PM

[pineda]

Timber Lakes/Timber Ridge residents wary of new park project

[bachanon]

timber lakes and timber ridge residents worried about increased crime, more dumping? i wouldn't go in that neighborhood after dark, and if i wanted to dump the old fridge out in my garage, that is the first place i would think i could get away with it.

i guess these people aren't familiar with the increase in property values or the (better) kind of people who want to live near established, recreational parks. worst case scenario, the neighborhood still sucks but with less empty houses, more public interest in keeping things clean and access to an amazing park system.

unbelievable idiocy.

[TheNiche]

bachanon, on Wednesday, September 6th, 2006 @ 4:21pm, said:

unbelievable idiocy.

Actually, their concerns do have some merit.

It is also not uncommon for various local governments to buy land, designate it a park, make capital improvements, and then provide very poor maintenance or security services. The problem is particularly common with rural parks or near poorer exurban areas.

Econometric analysis also proves with some consistency that people that homes adjacent to public parks experience a decline in property values. The hypothesized reason is that many people from outside the neighborhood are more likely to be noisy or in some cases cause trouble because they just have no respect for neighborhoods/property that isn't theirs. Bolstering this argument, more affluent people often live in subdivisions with private parks available to them (this occurs only in rural/exurban areas), while poor people tend to not have parks in their own neighborhoods, but to actually use parks more intensively because they also tend to have more children per household.

I also don't have all the information on the project. If park users have to drive through the neighborhood on a particular street, the extra traffic can cause problems.


Of course, this could also be one of those cases, like AO, where a vocal minority that may be among the very few adversely affected in their neighborhood shows up for the first time in their lives to a civic association meeting, managing also to have gotten press attention so that they can appear falsely unified. I just don't have that kind of information.

This post has been edited by TheNiche: Wednesday, September 6, 2006 at 9:22 PM

[bachanon]

danax, on Wednesday, September 6th, 2006 @ 9:42pm, said:

Living near a park can be good or bad, depending on the level of decency of the neighbors. It will probably work in The Woodlands but in other areas that have entered into long decline cycles it might be the worst thing to ever happen to them as instant gathering spots are created for gang bangers, noise creators, trash tossers etc.

An 85 year old woman in our neighborhood has lived in the same house since '53. Across the street was once a field, a haven for birds. Sometime in the 60s/70s the city created a full service park and it's been nothing but a negative for her and everyone else on her block ever since. The neighborhood as a whole has benefited though, so it's a win/lose scenario.

A park with well behaved citizens turns it into a win/win.

this area is already a place for gang bangers, noise creators and trash tossers. this neighborhood is sandwiched between the new park space, panther creek and grogan's mill. there are million dollar homes through the trees less than a mile away. there is close proximity to i-45 and other woodlands' amenities. i think that the park, which will connect via trails through the woodlands newest village, creekside, could be a turning point for this "backside" of the woodlands. if the park has a negative impact on TLTR, then couldn't one argue the same for panther creek, grogan's mill and creekside?

i think this will be a win/win for TLTR residents as well as for the woodlands.

map

timber lakes/timber ridge is between gosling and where sawdust dead ends into glen loch. the park space will run past gosling on the west and south of grogan's point/grogan's mill.

This post has been edited by bachanon: Thursday, September 7, 2006 at 4:35 PM

[pineda]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one, Bach. I know folks who live in that area and I've been there after dark as well. I've never experienced the rampant crime situation you've described.

I think the people living in that area have a right to be wary of the park project because of the reasons they've mentioned in the Courier article, and also because perhaps they don't really welcome the sanitized, Woodlands-ized version of nature that is proposed for the area.

As you're well aware, the Woodlands has had its' share of problems within its' own parks. It wasn't that long ago that the police and fire departments in the Woodlands were being kept fairly busy trying to stop whoever was responsible for setting small fires in the parks and other assorted acts of vandalism.

The people who live in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge have a very valid right to be concerned about the project and if the people in charge of the project promise to keep these residents in the loop and informed, and perhaps promise to help these residents find a way to get the local police department personnel a little more involved, then this project could be a win-win for everyone involved.

[bachanon]

Quote

I think the people living in that area have a right to be wary of the park project because of the reasons they've mentioned in the Courier article, and also because perhaps they don't really welcome the sanitized, Woodlands-ized version of nature that is proposed for the area.

if sanitized means long empty flood houses being torn down and dead ends becoming entrances to nature walks and hiking, i'll take the cleaner version.

Quote

The people who live in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge have a very valid right to be concerned about the project and if the people in charge of the project promise to keep these residents in the loop and informed, and perhaps promise to help these residents find a way to get the local police department personnel a little more involved, then this project could be a win-win for everyone involved.

yes, they do have a right to be concerned. i'm amazed that they cannot see an opportunity to turn their neighborhood around if things go well.

additional police presence and enforcement of existing laws would help many neighborhoods in and around the woodlands.

if i were a property owner in TLTR, i would be ecstatic. the only direction that area can go is up.

[pineda]

Quote

if things go well...

And therein lies the rub, doesn't it?

Keeping residents informed of decisions that affect their quality of life, however terrible you may think that is in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge, is important to this or any other project.

People sometimes resist change and an outside entity, no matter how well-intentioned you may consider that to be, needs to gain their trust and enlist their support and listen to their opinions in order to create a success in their neighborhood.

Perhaps these residents in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge would like to keep what they consider to be the good aspects of their area and just clean up what they consider to be the bad aspects of their area. This is just basic human behavior. Why does it annoy or amaze you so much?

This post has been edited by pineda: Thursday, September 7, 2006 at 5:28 PM

[woody_hawkeye]

I live on a park in TW and I see police chases in the woods at times from my back window. That goes with the territory. Also we have people coming in from outside TW all the time to enjoy the park. Therefore, I often have total strangers just behind my fence. I have tightened security at the house to mitigate the apparent higher risk of crime than a normal neighborhood.

[bachanon]

TLTR is apparently not a neighborhood used to better management. yes, it is in their realm of rights to be concerned about their surroundings. it is plain as day to see that they cannot see the forest for the trees. perhaps they are lulled to a lesser state of things because nothing horrible happens on a regular basis in their back yards. this neighborhood is due a good overhaul and the activity and redevelopment of parts of the neighborhood may do more good than harm.

better days are ahead.

This post has been edited by bachanon: Saturday, September 16, 2006 at 12:10 PM

[RedScare]

I'm with pineda on this one. My brother built his first house in this neighborhood in 1980. Ten years later, he built up Glenloch in The Woodlands. I spent a lot of time in that neighborhood. It is a hard-working middle class neighborhood that doesn't want to be the Woodlands. They have rejected Woodlands overtures in the past to make it look like it is part of the Woodlands.

There is no reason for these residents to believe that bachanon's predictions will come true. This neighborhood has been historically underserved. There is not enough police protection now. Assurances that it will be patrolled sound like empty promises.

bachanon, you're posts sound like just the "looking down your nose" observations that cause these residents' mistrust in the first place. As TLTR is only a few hundred residents, it is obvious that most of the troublemakers congregating by the creek are coming from the larger population of the Woodlands. Why should they support a plan to make it easier for this activity to occur in the future. Whereas you seem to be blinded by the pretty trees and signage of the Woodlands, these residents seem much more realistic about how much support and security that fiscally conservative Montgomery County will provide once the park is built. You forget that the parks in the Woodlands are maintained by your very high Woodlands taxes. This park will not be. As Montgomery County has not historically provided a high level of services, especially to TLTR, I don't blame them for being suspicious. It seems to me that if you think this park is a good thing, "if things go well", you should be siding with the TLTR residents in leaning on the County to provide for its success....not calling them idiots for doing so.

[bachanon]

red, have you been to the convenience store near TLTR at 11PM? even the convenience store on sawdust at sawmill gets robbed on a regular basis and i consider it safer than the one at the entrance to TLTR. in fact, i feel safer at a gas station in midtown at 2AM than the convenience store at TLTR.

it doesn't matter that good, hard working people live in TLTR. good, hard working people live in every ghetto around houston.

and no, i'm not looking "down my nose" at anyone. if it weren't for good circumstances, i'd be living in my rent house in a low income area off of aldine-westfield. i've said it before, if i lived in TLTR, i would be ecstatic about the plans for the park and worry about the details later. TLTR needs an upgrade, it needs cleaning up (as do many older neighborhoods in the woodlands). the park plans are an opportunity for this neighborhood to get the attention it needs. it will benefit not only TLTR, but the surrounding neighborhoods (which i live in). i'm all for greater attention to TLTR.

i'm sorry, but i laughed when i read the story in the courier. if TLTR remains what it is, it is because of the residents who live there and not new park space.

i should introduce you to the slum lord i met from TLTR. it was an unfortunate meeting at a company party. this guy owns many homes in TLTR and rents them to the worst of tenants because they are desperate and have cash. he looks forward to the next flood because he likes the insurance money and repairs the houses with as little money and effort as possible.

i ran in to a old high school buddy this past year. his wife left him because she prefers xanax and liquor over her family. she moved in with a like minded boyfriend in TLTR, on the back side, near the flood houses. my buddy frequently has to go rescue his kids because of a party.

a girl from my nephew's school was attacked at a party in TLTR last year.

i realize that these things happen everywhere. in my experience, TLTR has a reputation. a park can't make things worse (IMO).

[pineda]

Quote

TLTR is apparently not a neighborhood used to better management. yes, it is in their realm of rights to be concerned about their surroundings. it is plain as day to see that they cannot see the forest for the trees. perhaps they are lulled to a lesser state of things because nothing horrible happens on a regular basis in their back yards. this neighborhood is due a good overhaul and the activity and redevelopment of parts of the neighborhood may do more good than harm. sorry, pineda, but the neighborhood is a cesspool of meth dealers and scum lords. perhaps not in all areas. the high school kids i know from college park and the woodlands high school roll their eyes in disbelief when it is mentioned that TLTR is a safe place. they hear on a regular basis about the parties and dealers in TLTR. i realize that dealers and parties are unique to no specific area; however, TLTR is known for chaos.

better days are ahead.

All I can say is "WOW!" This post is so far beneath your usual quality, Bach, that I'm just going to chalk it up to the fact that you posted at 1:37 a.m. on a Friday night.

To base your assumptions about the quality of life in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge and what they supposedly deserve or don't deserve on what a few schoolchildren say is just not really a fair assessment.

Some of the people that I know who live in Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge are school teachers, FedEx and UPS workers, air conditioner repair personnel, car mechanics, and retired persons. They like the quiet, peaceful area tucked in between THE WOODLANDS and Spring Creek, which is still in a very natural state.

They would like to see more of a police presence in their neighborhood, and honestly, who wouldn't? Even in the some of the upscale parts of the Woodlands, like Alden Bridge and Sterling Ridge, I'm sure they'd like more of a police presence there as well.

When you say that the neighborhood "is due a good overhaul", how does one do that? By putting in a park, does that automatically make all the "meth dealers and scum lords" pack up and move away? You're not going to change the makeup of the people in a neighborhood just by putting in a park.

I can't believe you don't know this. The Woodlands is constantly fighting a battle to keep vandals, muggers and rapists out of all the parks in the Woodlands. Fires being set, expensive playground equipment vandalized, loitering and criminal activity of all kinds exists even now in the best of the Woodlands parks. Maybe the residents of Timber Lakes and Timber Ridge just aren't very welcome to that kind of activity coming to their neighborhood. Maybe they're a lot smarter than you think they are.

[RedScare]

bachanon, on Saturday, September 9th, 2006 @ 10:48am, said:

red, have you been to the convenience store near TLTR at 11PM? even the convenience store on sawdust at sawmill gets robbed on a regular basis and i consider it safer than the one at the entrance to TLTR. in fact, i feel safer at a gas station in midtown at 2AM than the convenience store at TLTR.

I believe this is the point the residents are making. If the police cannot even patrol the convenience store at the major insection in TLTR (in fact, even a convenience store in the Woodlands), why should they believe that law enforcement will patrol a park?

I am unaware of a situation where the building of a park, without an increase in police patrols, ever lowered a crime rate. I am aware of numerous un-patrolled parks that have become a gathering place for drunks, drug users and other undesirables. Perhaps you could point out an example of an un-patrolled park that lowered crime.

BTW, your anecdotes amuse me. If only girls would realize that all the safe parties are in the Woodlands.

[bachanon]

i realized while posting that anecdotal experience would be dismissed by you, red (as it should). it has; however, tainted my view of the area.

i concede that unpatrolled parks can be gathering places for shady activity. my point, again, is that it can't be worse than it is. and, it might clean up the neighborhood a bit.

i think that because of TLTR's "fortunate" location (between panther creek, creekside and grogan's mill), any negative side effects of a park connecting these areas will be patrolled by bicycle or horse. if extra enforcement is not in the "master plan", i do not doubt that it will occur from necessity. TLTR has only to GAIN from the park. if they don't like it, increase their neighborhood association fees, fence it off and don't allow any entrances to the park within its (TLTR's) perimeter.

[KatieDidIt]

The police issue around here needs to addressed before the Woodlands, or areas around it, build anymore "attractors."

In fact we are pretty convinced that police can't go west of Kuykendal (sp.) Its like an invisable forcefield. Our favor joke in Sterling Ridge is: The only cops we ever see are the Harris County police cars on their way to work.


Fix the problem, then build the park.

[bachanon]

Quote

All I can say is "WOW!" This post is so far beneath your usual quality, Bach, that I'm just going to chalk it up to the fact that you posted at 1:37 a.m. on a Friday night.

consider it misdirected or redirected anxiety.

[PureAuteur]

woody_hawkeye, on Thursday, September 7th, 2006 @ 11:37pm, said:

I live on a park in TW and I see police chases in the woods at times from my back window. That goes with the territory. Also we have people coming in from outside TW all the time to enjoy the park. Therefore, I often have total strangers just behind my fence. I have tightened security at the house to mitigate the apparent higher risk of crime than a normal neighborhood.

Any crime or shady activity that gets mentioned for the Woodlands or areas adjacent to it, I just take with a grain of salt. The area that surrounds that creek/woods has solid demographics for miles and miles. Whatever criminal mischief exists there, I wouldn't be fearful of my life over.

Where is this TLTR place anyways? Is it a new section of the Woodlands or just some neighborhood south of the Woodlands? I remember driving down Sawdust Rd and as it winds around, it leads to a neighborhood that doesn't look like the Woodlands but like something you'd see in north houston: older houses that looked like they've been damaged by floods, possibly lower-middle income. Is that TLTR?

I can't imagine how the convenience store over there gets robbed on a regular basis, but if it does, it has nothing to do with the neighborhood, and everything to do with proximity to I-45. Store robbers know they can quickly get out of town or else drive into Houston proper and elude the law enforcement.

IMO, the problem could be fixed by building a Montgomery County/Harris County police station right around there, in which both jurisdictions share the facilities, and can work together on criminal cases when they need to. North Harris County/South Montgomery County is growing so much, so I think the demographics would support this. This would help to protect those neighborhoods around Spring Creek, and possibly appease the Woodlands residents who worry about lack of police presence.

[bachanon]

in an earlier post, i have a link to a map of the area.

link to post

This post has been edited by bachanon: Monday, September 18, 2006 at 7:36 PM

[bachanon]

update on spring creek greenway project.

link

Aug. 16, 2007, 4:21PM
Montgomery County continues to develop greenway project
Architectural firm will design plans for preserve area

By BETH KUHLES
Chronicle Correspondent

Montgomery County waded further into its Spring Creek Greenway project, hiring an architectural firm to develop a master plan for the Peckinpaugh Preserve and assigning an attorney to handle condemnation cases along the corridor.

Montgomery County is about halfway to its goal of acquiring 6,000 acres along the north side of the creek for the planned 12,000-acre park and trail system that will follow Spring Creek in Montgomery and Harris counties. Montgomery County got the land through donations, tax trusts or purchases.

"We are seeking 6,000 acres on the Montgomery County side," said Robert Collins, special counsel for Montgomery County Precinct 3. "We have about half of that acquired or protected. Slowly, but surely, we are acquiring tracts of land. We have about 100 acres at Riley Fuzzel Road alone."

The largest tract along Riley Fuzzel Road is the Peckinpaugh Preserve, a 25-acre site with a half-mile of frontage along the Spring Creek. The land was donated by Patty Hubbard Peckinpaugh and by the Houston Audubon Society.

Master plan designs
Montgomery County Commissioners Court awarded a contract to Hellmuth, Obata and Kassabaum to do a master plan for a portion of the Peckinpaugh site. That plan is likely to include the county's first nature center, which also would house a community center and a sheriff's department substation, Collins said.

[pineda]

Quote

The county hired the law firm of Andrews Kurth to handle right of way acquisitions for the Spring Creek Greenway project.

"We are going to get that land, whether it is through land donation, acquisition or condemnation," Chance said.

Chance said the number of properties that would be targeted have not yet been determined.

niiiice, this comment alone explains all you need to know about Ed Chance, doesn't it?